AMD 7XXX crashing (DO NOT BUY AMD)

[Valaska]

This is a Driver Timeout Issue with the GPU a 7900 XTX. This has been 6 months straight now, my current set up;

 

GPU 7900 XTX (XFX Merc)
CPU 7900X
RAM Trident Z5 Neo 64gb 6000Mhz CL30 (AMD EXPO)
PSU A100G PCIE5 1000W MSI
MOBO MSI X670e Carbon Wifi
OS Windows 11Pro

 

Attempted fixes in order (working alongside XFX and AMD for 6 months now)

I've written out the majority, and counted this out how many times I've done;

• Windows 10 Install fresh computer
• 32 - 64 GB of RAM (DDR5)
• Turning off EXPO for RAM
• Turned it back on for RAM
• Windows 10 Reformat when issues first showed up in a game

POST WINDOWS 11

• Windows 11 Clean install new NVME
• Turning off EXPO for RAM
• Turned it back on for RAM
• Attempted to turn off super sampling etc.
• DDU, new drivers
• DDU, new drivers
• DDU, new drivers
• DDU, direct drivers
• DDU, new drivers, uninstall wallpaper engine
• DDU, new drivers, attempt to run games without LD Player running
• DDU, new drivers, 1 monitor only

We have a community-based survey we were passing around on AMDs SubReddit and the FORMERLY support section of it. Recently after one of my threads was deleted within 5 minutes of being posted, they changed the policy that no support should be on the Reddit and directed us to the AMD forums. This is my post;

 

https://community.amd.com/t5/drivers-software/7900-xtx-drivers-crash-multiple-games/m-p/599145/highlight/true#M173161

 

This is NOT fixable. It is completely random, you can't tell which game your GPU will not be able to run. Fresh windows install does nothing, and I have a 1000W PSU with the HPWR to 16 (8x8) splitting and a single dedicated 8x pin. It's not just me, there are people on the 7600X getting the same issues.

 

And another amazing thing? Running in the Unreal Editor, it crashes on me. I am a game developer. A GAME DEVELOPER, going to move into unreal soon, leaving Unreal behind., Linus and the team recommending AMD despite the issue STILL hitting their cards is ridiculous. DO NOT PURCHASE AMD. They don't know how to fix this issue, I have been talking to them for 6 months straight now, and they have NO IDEA why this issue is happening... and it hits you at complete random.

 

If you want a GPU that won't randomly crash on random games, then you need to be using either Nvidia or Intel. And I say this as someone who has used ATI and AMD GPUs for literally 26 years now. I hate this, I spent $1500 on this... the 4080 wasn't much more than this, and tbh I wish I just saved up for the 4090. I could have put it off a few months. But if this card worked across every game, application, etc it would be fine. It would be near perfect. But with the 4070 and 4080 out there, do you want to risk your game not working in this?

 

You can clear windows 100 times. You can run DDU 1000 times. It will never solve this issue and the GPU will always break on some applications and programs. This is what you are risking with AMD right now.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Valaska
(edit: forgot to update my specs to W11 pro & 64gp RAM. That list was from my document of the ways I've tried to solve this, and included older information on my build, too.)

[WereCat]

I can understand the frustration but what you're experiencing is quite rare and may not even be related to the card itself at all. It can be just unstable RAM, have you actually checked if it's not throwing any errors?

[FloRolf]

In all of your tests you did not once actually change a component, so how do you know 100% it's the GPU (or CPU, really don't know which one you are talking about)? 

[Valaska]

41 minutes ago, WereCat said:

I can understand the frustration but what you're experiencing is quite rare and may not even be related to the card itself at all. It can be just unstable RAM, have you actually checked if it's not throwing any errors?

Yes, I and 183 people in the hardware survey are all having this issue and some people, frankly, might never learn they have it as they might just focus on a modern game without the issue.

 

I have run MemTest on request by XFX, zero errors. The main issue is that yes, this is frustrating personallyl. But there are over 100 people before AMD deleted the survey thread off their Reddit, a few DOZEN threads in their support forums, all with zero answer publicly from AMD.

 

They are working with me in e-mails for the past 6 months straight. Memtest, Furmark, ADA64, 1 monitor only, DDU 7 times now several times before whole driver updates... reformating, chanigng OS, etc.

 

The thing is this. You might not know you have this issue, until you go to play a game that the issue is on. That was me until I started playing Darktide, and I assumed it was the game... so I went back to Cyberpunk, I love Cyberpunk! Awesome game. Raytracing is amazing! Then... Unreal Editor. The issue of driver timouts starts again... huh. Weird, right? I am a Unity dev so whatever, I just dropped it. I realized it was an actual issue after I played Cyberpunk, Battletech HBS, and both were fine... then I started Deus Ex Mankind Divided. Driver hang issue! If I went back to DX11 the driver timeouts stop, but the game CHUGS and looks like garbage.

 

Then, Phantom Brigade, another game I had been super looking forward to since the demo! Demo ran fine so I thought I was safe. Phantom Brigade! And it seemed to run fine, I got through a few of the first missions and when it came time to assault the base, which is where I got to in the demo... DRIVER TIMEOUT! "Holy F&$@" I think, another game it affects, I thought. So I tried some indie Unreal games, most had the driver timeout. I used to think it was just an Unreal issue, but then I realised;

 

Crashing Games:

Unreal: Unreal Editor, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, Deus Ex Human revolition, Several Indie games

Unity: Phantom Brigade

Autodesk Stingray: Darktide, Vermintine 2

Sekiro Enigne: Armoured Core 6

 

Games that run Fine:

RedEngine: Cyberpunk 2077

Unity: Battletech, ShadowRun, Sattelite Reign, Scorn, bunch of Indies

CryEngine: MechWarriorOnline, Shatterline, Star Scamizen

Gamebryo: Starfield (Post patch)

GameMaker: Holocure

Slipstream: Halo Infinite

 

 

Note, that some games in Unity sometimes crash, and some don't. Some games in Unreal crash others do not. According to the Survey and other people's complaints on the forums and the survey, some people get this issue in Cyberpunk 2077, some don't. You can say it's rare,. but I don't think this issue is. All 3 on Linus' team had it, we have 183 survey responses, there are several dozen posts on teh AMD forums.

 

I am betting this issue is hitting almost everyone with a 7XXX card, but they don't know it because they luck out with the games they are on... until they stop lucking out, and once that hits you and you are random, you can not play that game through no fault of your own.

 

That's a massive risk. How could anyone recommend a product with that risk? And to be honest, I can't feel good not warning people about this. Look, I am an AMD fan over the years, my build should show that... I have a backup PC that is;

 

GPU 7600 (XFX 3x fan)
CPU 5600X
RAM G.Skill TridentZ 32gb

PSU Some 800W Corsair semi-modular lol
MOBO X470-F Strix Gaming (oh man what a garbage MOBO)
OS Windows 11Pro

 

I still have an R9 290x, HD 5650, I solt an HD 7970 just a bit ago (made a profit on it!) and a few older classikc/retro ATI cards from back in the day all that I made HUGE profit on- like holy heck retro gaming is takin goff and these were goldmines for the people who bought them. I have set up 2600x's in multiple backup/server/nas builds, and yeah... it sucks, but you SHOULD NOT BUY AMD right now. It is a MASSIVE liability, even if you don't use your PC for work. You h ave no idea if it is faulty or not and you could be ticking down your warranty or RMA period without ever knowing. And the worst thing is... making excuses for AMD instead of pressing them to properly investigate or fix this issue. Several hundred of us have been being led around by AMD for months now, almost a year...

Edited September 29, 2023 by Valaska
Originally had working that made it sound as if the same games sometiems crash or not, when it's some games on the same engine do, while others do now.

[Valaska]

17 minutes ago, FloRolf said:

In all of your tests you did not once actually change a component, so how do you know 100% it's the GPU (or CPU, really don't know which one you are talking about)? 

 

I have memtested, furmarked, etc. It is a drivetimeout crash each time, and several hundred other users are reporting this same thing in the hardware survey here.

 

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScL7m-EGEsA3x4-0Td7dD-HXXUngZvL52y-oRoqwvRXfK7j1Q/viewanalytics

 

I did, in fact, run an R9 290x briefly and there were no issues with it. I could slot the 7600 I have as a backup PC in now, but funny thing? That's affected byt he same crash issue too according to several people;

 

https://community.amd.com/t5/unreal-engine-discussions/unreal-engine-5-1-with-directx12-crashing-with-7900-xt/m-p/629002#M93

 

https://community.amd.com/t5/pc-building/keep-getting-amd-driver-timeout-error-in-my-new-rx7600/m-p/619925/highlight/true#M2204

 

CPU has been stable in stress tests XFX had me run, memtest, was perfectly fine no issues. The specific errors are pictured in my forum and plainly show it is a Driver Timeout issue. There's no power instability, so how could it be PSU? How could I run Cyberpunk 2077, the most graphically demanding game I have on my system and draws a ton of power... but then can't run Phantom Brigade? I've popped memory ranks in and out, I ran it in 32gb before with the original kit and ran it with the new 32gb kit i got to bring it to 64gb.

 

Also re-reading my OP... I do specify the GPU several times, no?

[Bagzie]

Are you trying to get help or just need to vent? At this point I have no idea.

[Valaska]

Just now, Bagzie said:

Are you trying to get help or just need to vent? At this point I have no idea.

 

Little of both! If someone has found any solutions, please tell me, I have tried a bunch of crap and so have the other people who have this issue haha. But also... yeah I kind of want to warn people away from going AMD 7XXX right now until this has been either;

 

Addressed publicly, and AMD acknowledges they are working on it.

or;

AMD has just fixed it.

 

Because if you are like me you can go easily the first 60 days not realizing this card has this issue and now you can't return your GPU. Getting an AMD 7XXX right now is insanely dangerous, you are rolling the dice and it is affecting a lot more people than what I am comfortable with. These drive timeout issues are just... awful.

[Bagzie]

1 minute ago, Valaska said:

 

Little of both! If someone has found any solutions, please tell me, I have tried a bunch of crap and so have the other people who have this issue haha. But also... yeah I kind of want to warn people away from going AMD 7XXX right now until this has been either;

 

Addressed publicly, and AMD acknowledges they are working on it.

or;

AMD has just fixed it.

 

Because if you are like me you can go easily the first 60 days not realizing this card has this issue and now you can't return your GPU. Getting an AMD 7XXX right now is insanely dangerous, you are rolling the dice and it is affecting a lot more people than what I am comfortable with. These drive timeout issues are just... awful.

I play alot of armoured core 6 and haven't had any driver timeouts.

 

I'll give some of the other games a try tomorrow and see if I can reproduce some of your findings.

[Gohardgrandpa]

Is this happening across all of the 7000 series cards? 
 

I’ve had my 7800xt for about 2 weeks now and Dead by daylight, Rdr2, cod mw2, fallout 3/4/NV/76, Starfield and Fortnite have all been great. I haven’t had a single driver timeout issue. 
 

I do believe your having issues tho, I had a hell of a time with my 5700xt when that launched and switched to nvidia and just now came back to amd with am5 and the 7800xt

[Valaska]

3 minutes ago, Bagzie said:

I play alot of armoured core 6 and haven't had any driver timeouts.

 

I'll give some of the other games a try tomorrow and see if I can reproduce some of your findings.

 

Thank you! And yeah, a friend of mine can play Armoured Core for... literally 39 hours straight the one time, he's a beast... but if he tries to play Cyberpunk 2077 he might get 2 hours if he is lucky.

 

Where as, I can play Cyberpunk 2077 for 12 hours no issue what-so-ever. I have never had the timeouts in Cyberpunk, but I've had one as soon as 10 minutes in AC6... which is a shame I am a HUGE AC fan! Played nearly all of them except ones between 4 and 6, (Silent line etc)... super bummed out.

[WereCat]

Would love to help but I have no personal experience with RDNA3 or NVIDIA 4000 series yet. 

I'm running RDNA2 6800 XT since May on both Fedora and Windows and had no issues like what you describe. 

 

I do remember there being some major driver issues after the 7900XT and XTX release and then few updates later complaints quieted down so I assumed most stuff just works now. 

I do know from 7800XT reviews that the driver was crashing in some games like Forza Horizon 5 but these reviews didn't mention if that relates to the rest of the stack too. 

 

It also appears that AMD heavily locked down the driver to prevent further tuning of the card with external software like MPT so there is not much else to try besides trying to forcibly downclock the card and check the behaviour.

It does seem like you've exhausted all options otherwise. 

 

I'd still at least try to run the card on Linux and see how it fares there but if that's going against your time and work then I can understand why you wouldn't want to mess with that. 

[Valaska]

2 minutes ago, Gohardgrandpa said:

Is this happening across all of the 7000 series cards? 
 

I’ve had my 7800xt for about 2 weeks now and Dead by daylight, Rdr2, cod mw2, fallout 3/4/NV/76, Starfield and Fortnite have all been great. I haven’t had a single driver timeout issue. 
 

I do believe your having issues tho, I had a hell of a time with my 5700xt when that launched and switched to nvidia and just now came back to amd with am5 and the 7800xt

Yeah here's a video of it in Darktide, you can hear the tail end of some audio, and then the Expleened video Wanted Dead started as soon as that one stopped. So audio and the system were working. Also, note that Discord crashed.

 

https://youtu.be/POtHuHCJlCg?si=wAROQslRDDIFNbUd

[Valaska]

6 minutes ago, WereCat said:

Would love to help but I have no personal experience with RDNA3 or NVIDIA 4000 series yet. 

I'm running RDNA2 6800 XT since May on both Fedora and Windows and had no issues like what you describe. 

 

I do remember there being some major driver issues after the 7900XT and XTX release and then few updates later complaints quieted down so I assumed most stuff just works now. 

I do know from 7800XT reviews that the driver was crashing in some games like Forza Horizon 5 but these reviews didn't mention if that relates to the rest of the stack too. 

 

It also appears that AMD heavily locked down the driver to prevent further tuning of the card with external software like MPT so there is not much else to try besides trying to forcibly downclock the card and check the behaviour.

It does seem like you've exhausted all options otherwise. 

 

I'd still at least try to run the card on Linux and see how it fares there but if that's going against your time and work then I can understand why you wouldn't want to mess with that. 

 

Yeah, I just, have too much to do application-wise and just ease of use too for Windows, that Linux would only be a brief bit of trouble shooting. I tried to show the temps at the end of my video but my phone ran out of record time, 62celsius.

 

They seemed to fix a bunch of major games, but these issues still persist across a ton of games and then just randomly targetting people even for games that have been "fixed." I can't run AC6, but others can. I can run Cyberpunk 2077, others cannot.

 

Someone recently said that underclocking helped solve their issue so I'll be giving it a shot, I think it was in one of the AMD support forum posts I posted.

 

Also, the issue got quieter because... they uh, basically shadow-banned the topic of drive timeouts on their subreddit. The deleted the thread linking to they hardware survey for the driver timeouts etc. Yeaaaaah...

[Gohardgrandpa]

Sooo.....

I just loaded starfield, played for maybe 10 minutes and got this driver timeout error. This is the first time I've had this happen.

I'm on windows 11 rig is in my sig, Running adrenaline 23.9.1

Now I'm gonna be up all night trying to fix it, if I come up with something I'll let you know , I'll make sure I post back here regardless

[WereCat]

8 minutes ago, Valaska said:

 

Yeah, I just, have too much to do application-wise and just ease of use too for Windows, that Linux would only be a brief bit of trouble shooting. I tried to show the temps at the end of my video but my phone ran out of record time, 62celsius.

 

They seemed to fix a bunch of major games, but these issues still persist across a ton of games and then just randomly targetting people even for games that have been "fixed." I can't run AC6, but others can. I can run Cyberpunk 2077, others cannot.

 

Someone recently said that underclocking helped solve their issue so I'll be giving it a shot, I think it was in one of the AMD support forum posts I posted.

 

Also, the issue got quieter because... they uh, basically shadow-banned the topic of drive timeouts on their subreddit. The deleted the thread linking to they hardware survey for the driver timeouts etc. Yeaaaaah...

Just a random thought... Not going into detail since its 3AM and I should be sleeping already.... 

 

AMD (at least on 5000 series) handles unstable display cable signal really poorly to the point it can cause driver crashes or even whole system crashes. 

While I don't think this is your issue I still think it's worth to give it a try considering you've exhausted so many options already. 

 

So I would suggest to physically unplug all secondary monitors from the card and keep your main monitor at 60Hz, see if behaviour changes (assuming you run multiple monitors or high res and refresh rate monitor). 

[Valaska]

1 minute ago, Gohardgrandpa said:

Sooo.....

I just loaded starfield, played for maybe 10 minutes and got this driver timeout error. This is the first time I've had this happen.

I'm on windows 11 rig is in my sig, Running adrenaline 23.9.1

Now I'm gonna be up all night trying to fix it, if I come up with something I'll let you know , I'll make sure I post back here regardless

Heck... and yeah, Starfield runs for me zero issues. Hopefully, you can find a fix, I've been digging for ages.

[Valaska]

1 minute ago, WereCat said:

Just a random thought... Not going into detail since its 3AM and I should be sleeping already.... 

 

AMD (at least on 5000 series) handles unstable display cable signal really poorly to the point it can cause driver crashes or even whole system crashes. 

While I don't think this is your issue I still think it's worth to give it a try considering you've exhausted so many options already. 

 

So I would suggest to physically unplug all secondary monitors from the card and keep your main monitor at 60Hz, see if behaviour changes (assuming you run multiple monitors or high res and refresh rate monitor). 

Ah yeah that was one of the listed solutions I put in the first post actually, AMD suggested the very same thing. Timeouts still happened, unfortunately, and I have bought new cables for both of my monitors, too. 60hz, freesync, etc... still hit me on the games I get crashes on.

[sabgog]

I was just doing some reading, interested as I have a 7900x and a 7900xtx and havent had any problems so far..

https://www.makeuseof.com/amd-driver-timeout-tdr-windows/ have you read posts like this and tried disabling MPO?

 

Also you mention in one of your posts that you originally had a 32GB ram kit and then bought another 32 GB kit.. do you still get issues with either one of those single kits installed? A lot of places strongly recommend not adding kits together like that and only buying matched sets.

 

Also might be random or unrelated but whats your cooling setup and have you ever watched temperatures with HWinfo or something else around the time of a crash?

[Gohardgrandpa]

3 minutes ago, sabgog said:

I was just doing some reading, interested as I have a 7900x and a 7900xtx and havent had any problems so far..

https://www.makeuseof.com/amd-driver-timeout-tdr-windows/ have you read posts like this and tried disabling MPO?

 

Also you mention in one of your posts that you originally had a 32GB ram kit and then bought another 32 GB kit.. do you still get issues with either one of those single kits installed? A lot of places strongly recommend not adding kits together like that and only buying matched sets.

I haven’t read thru that yet but thank you for posting it. I’ll go thru n it tonight and see if it fixes my Starfield issue while not causing issues in my other games 

[Valaska]

4 minutes ago, sabgog said:

I was just doing some reading, interested as I have a 7900x and a 7900xtx and havent had any problems so far..

https://www.makeuseof.com/amd-driver-timeout-tdr-windows/ have you read posts like this and tried disabling MPO?

 

Also you mention in one of your posts that you originally had a 32GB ram kit and then bought another 32 GB kit.. do you still get issues with either one of those single kits installed? A lot of places strongly recommend not adding kits together like that and only buying matched sets.

 

Also might be random or unrelated but whats your cooling setup and have you ever watched temperatures with HWinfo or something else around the time of a crash?

 

Howdy, I can't remember if I did MPO or not but I do remember this post actually.

 

The issue was during the 32gb kit, and when I upgraded (It's the same kit so adding is fine generally btw, so long as its the name SKU! Tbh you can mix other SKUs and even manufacturers and be okay... but yeah this is the exact same SKU, tried it with either kit).

 

Cooling is an Arctic Liquid II 360mm, and a TON of Lian Li AL120's lol.

[Valaska]

3 minutes ago, Caroline said:

I had that happen when I first got my 5700XT and you wouldn't believe what fixed it.

 

Clean run of an ancient -portable- version of Lavalys Everest, 4.5.1 iirc I have on a CD, start the stresstest for the first time it prompts you to "fix driver timeout before running test" and if you click Yes it works some registry magic, only that managed to fix it. Since it's read-only media it won't "remember" I applied the fix so if I ever need it again the CD will be there for me.

 

Try that and if it works you owe me a $60 game. jk but do try.

Hum! Interesting, I'll absolutely give it a try. I tried to set drive timeout delay to like, 2 hours, but yeah haha.

[sabgog]

2 minutes ago, Valaska said:

 

Howdy, I can't remember if I did MPO or not but I do remember this post actually.

 

The issue was during the 32gb kit, and when I upgraded (It's the same kit so adding is fine generally btw, so long as its the name SKU! Tbh you can mix other SKUs and even manufacturers and be okay... but yeah this is the exact same SKU, tried it with either kit).

 

Cooling is an Arctic Liquid II 360mm, and a TON of Lian Li AL120's lol.

In the past I know mixing kits didn't seem to have any warnings but DDDR5 seems to be lot more sensitive to mismatches..

 

From Corsair: 

Q: Can I combine multiple kits of CORSAIR DDR5 memory?

A: We strongly recommend you do NOT combine multiple kits of CORSAIR DDR5 memory. Our memory kits are only validated for their rated performance when using only the modules provided within that specific kit (box). Combining multiple kits, even if they are rated for the same speed, may result in your memory modules not being able to reach their rated performance specification.

 

From G.Skill:

 

We do not recommend mixing memory kits, regardless of brand or model.
By mixing memory kits together, there may be compatibility issues such as unable to boot or unable to operate at rated specifications.
Each of our memory kit are thoroughly tested to ensure compatibility within each memory kit. And because we have not tested our memory kit with your existing memory kit, we cannot guarantee compatibility when multiple kits are used.
Please also note that the G.SKILL QVL applies to single kit compatibility only, so mixing two or more of the same memory kit is not recommended.

 

 

 

[Valaska]

2 minutes ago, sabgog said:

In the past I know mixing kits didn't seem to have any warnings but DDDR5 seems to be lot more sensitive to mismatches..

Oh wow, that's new haha. Consider me corrected... I have a hard time seeing what would be the issue! BUt yeah I was able to post and complete memtest so it seemed to have worked out. In the future with DDR5 though I'll definitely be considering this!

[sabgog]

2 minutes ago, Valaska said:

Oh wow, that's new haha. Consider me corrected... I have a hard time seeing what would be the issue! BUt yeah I was able to post and complete memtest so it seemed to have worked out. In the future with DDR5 though I'll definitely be considering this!

I'm not a computer engineer but maybe even though each piece doesn't have errors, there could still be tiny performance variations that affect how they work when trying to operate together, hence all the warnings from some bigger makers. who knows.

 

PS. AMD released new display drivers two days ago, could be worth checking out if you haven't already

[Valaska]

1 minute ago, sabgog said:

I'm not a computer engineer but maybe even though each piece doesn't have errors, there could still be tiny performance variations that affect how they work when trying to operate together, hence all the warnings from some bigger makers. who knows.

 

PS. AMD released new display drivers two days ago, could be worth checking out if you haven't already

Yeah fun thing they actually send me it 1  day early, the rep I am talking with really wants to help but... what they can do is very limited. Already sent a message and a youtube video of the darktide crash persisting, I am betting they'll ask me for MS32 and DxDiag agian lol. I posted a youtube video here too actually of darktide crashing today.