Female representation in the LMG & the tech media sphere

[LucySpectre]

Considering the number of videos uploaded by all the associated channels, the ratio female representation on display is low. Very low. 

You could point to a small handful of videos that feature guests or irregular staff members. But they are distinct outliers. 

 

Having worked in IT for the past 15 years or more I've seen the real world representation of women in the tech industry. Whilst it's clearly skewed towards guys, the ratio of female representation seen in LMG videos is far from being indicative of the female representation in the industry. 

To compound this lack of representation the women that do appear on screen are seldom if ever shown as positive and competent tech role models. They're shown as people learning or damsels in tech distress. Yvonne is clearly an exception to this, and if I need to explain why then you're already way behind. 

Overall tech media is a sausagefest and the attitude often found on forums and in youtube video comment sections exacerbates the situation with an over arching attitude that the only women we should see on our screens should be approripately aesthetically pleasing and/or non-threatening. 

 

I'll be very clear that this is not a request for representation on the screen to meet arbitrary quotas for the sake of it, so you stop reaching for that pitch fork right now.

 

As a leader in the representation of the tech community online, I would hope that LMG consider the representation of their female staff and the female guests that they bring on and choose to steer away from the tired stereotypes that women are tarred with in the tech sphere and choose to show their female audience that they can be as capable and confident with tech as the boys are. 
 

 

[yoc]

Sounds reasonable to me.

[Lyre]

9 minutes ago, LucySpectre said:

Considering the number of videos uploaded by all the associated channels, the ratio female representation on display is low. Very low. 

You could point to a small handful of videos that feature guests or irregular staff members. But they are distinct outliers. 

 

Having worked in IT for the past 15 years or more I've seen the real world representation of women in the tech industry. Whilst it's clearly skewed towards guys, the ratio of female representation seen in LMG videos is far from being indicative of the female representation in the industry. 

To compound this lack of representation the women that do appear on screen are seldom if ever shown as positive and competent tech role models. They're shown as people learning or damsels in tech distress. Yvonne is clearly an exception to this, and if I need to explain why then you're already way behind. 

Overall tech media is a sausagefest and the attitude often found on forums and in youtube video comment sections exacerbates the situation with an over arching attitude that the only women we should see on our screens should be approripately aesthetically pleasing and/or non-threatening. 

 

I'll be very clear that this is not a request for representation on the screen to meet arbitrary quotas for the sake of it, so you stop reaching for that pitch fork right now.

 

As a leader in the representation of the tech community online, I would hope that LMG consider the representation of their female staff and the female guests that they bring on and choose to steer away from the tired stereotypes that women are tarred with in the tech sphere and choose to show their female audience that they can be as capable and confident with tech as the boys are. 
 

 

From what I understand how they pick hosts has a few criteria like internal interest and community reactions are the two that I remember having the most stated impact and even though I don't think that it should be the community is quite heavy 20 something males and people like watching those who are physically slimier to themselves. Look at iJustine for example while I liker her content I don't get recommended it as often and while she has half the subs as LTT she gets like 10x less views. Even though its not just it is what it is and as a business LTT has to do what the audience says. Like we all just learned.

[CrabbyDadTech]

20 minutes ago, LucySpectre said:

Considering the number of videos uploaded by all the associated channels, the ratio female representation on display is low. Very low. 

You could point to a small handful of videos that feature guests or irregular staff members. But they are distinct outliers. 

 

Having worked in IT for the past 15 years or more I've seen the real world representation of women in the tech industry. Whilst it's clearly skewed towards guys, the ratio of female representation seen in LMG videos is far from being indicative of the female representation in the industry. 

To compound this lack of representation the women that do appear on screen are seldom if ever shown as positive and competent tech role models. They're shown as people learning or damsels in tech distress. Yvonne is clearly an exception to this, and if I need to explain why then you're already way behind. 

Overall tech media is a sausagefest and the attitude often found on forums and in youtube video comment sections exacerbates the situation with an over arching attitude that the only women we should see on our screens should be approripately aesthetically pleasing and/or non-threatening. 

 

I'll be very clear that this is not a request for representation on the screen to meet arbitrary quotas for the sake of it, so you stop reaching for that pitch fork right now.

 

As a leader in the representation of the tech community online, I would hope that LMG consider the representation of their female staff and the female guests that they bring on and choose to steer away from the tired stereotypes that women are tarred with in the tech sphere and choose to show their female audience that they can be as capable and confident with tech as the boys are. 
 

 

This is an accurate to my eyes and ears. Usually if there is a young woman in the video, it's to have men take her by the hand in a tech project, or to simply unbox some less technical peripherals. 

[johnno23]

Same could be said for many areas of the market.

My wife is very capable and has excellent hearing and understands the nuances in sound vision etc but I have never met a woman in a high end hifi store demonstrating high end amplifiers speakers etc.

Above me as is mentioned ijustine has made some excellent content but her views are indeed much lower despite her subscription level.

 

[saintlouisbagels]

A big part of the problem is that, of the women they have on their team, none of them are writers¹, and Emily S is the only editor.

The rest of the women don't have roles that would make them technically proficient in the areas that are typically written about, which make them good subjects for the "damsel in distress"-type videos.

 

I love all of the videos that Sarah Butt has been part of, and Yvonne definitely needs to be in more videos. Her Cricut ShortCircuit video was great.

 

¹ um, I don't know the etiquette of whether or not to include Emily Young in this statement

[ToboRobot]

Why isn't there an equal push to get men into jobs and industries dominated by women?

Seems like many are not willing to be honest about why people do the things and jobs they do.

[fartmuncher69_420]

I'd love to see more female hosts. My daughter is at that age where she loves Disney princesses more than computer processors but seeing women in things does make a huge difference to boosting her interest in things. Even if she's only seeing videos in the background because daddy is watching them.

 

I have worked with some amazing women in IT, many of whom are much smarter than me. 

[Jerakl]

7 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Why isn't there an equal push to get women into jobs and industries dominated by women?

Seems like many are not willing to be honest about why people do the things and jobs they do.

Yeah.

Realistically Unless dedicated female presenters were hired this is a nothingburger imo.
afaik very few women work for lmg as is and there's a bunch of other factors that go into whether someone is in front of the camera or not.

[Uttamattamakin]

1 hour ago, LucySpectre said:

As a leader in the representation of the tech community online, I would hope that LMG consider the representation of their female staff and the female guests that they bring on and choose to steer away from the tired stereotypes that women are tarred with in the tech sphere and choose to show their female audience that they can be as capable and confident with tech as the boys are. 

You are 100% right.  Ideally IT and tech would not be something seen as gendered in a world where computers run everything.  The idea that any group somehow lacks some "inherent" ability to understand IT fundamentals is false and discriminatory.  The basic thesis of this whole reply is going to be that LMG has no real choice but to cater to the biases that its audience very likely holds. 

Lets apply a bit of realpolitik to LMG's situation.  The demographic they have to apply to.  Young men and young women are people who buy DEEPLY into stereotypes around STEM abilities.   

 

Let me give you an example from something I know well and deal with.  Teaching math and science at community colleges around Chicagoland.   From city to suburbs, and every economic level there is a deeply held idea in the LMG demographic that only certain people can know STEM.   (There is a fascinating body of research around this https://www.nsta.org/draw-scientist  and other similar publications)

 

Does anyone think that computer science and IT have any less stereotype and bias associated with them? 

I mean if we go to the ROOT of modern IT and gaming culture we can see this reflected as far back as the classic hacker movie "War Games".   In the 1980's the old women of IT were retiring out and it was really coming into the stereotype as being for a certain kind of geeky boy.

 

I see the systemic result now as a college professor

My colleagues and I will see students who insist that they don't know and cannot learn STEM because that is not for them.  They will insist that they are not good at "math".   Example I can ask a student in remedial math what is 70 kilometers per hour times one hour and they can't do it.  It's scary and complicated science.  However, the same person if asked what is 70 dollars per hour times one hour they can answer 70 dollars.    Most will realize that they are just limiting themselves.  Not all will.  About 30% of the people in our remedial math classes just can't let go of the stereotype.  I've even had people who had an A drop, then try to get back in when they realized they in fact had an A.  They were so sure they weren't doing well no matter what I told them. (I am a Black transwoman they certainly don't think I know math and science.)
 

I can go on about this at length.  It is simply a fact that the demographic that LTT would target is one which, no matter their own identity, likely thinks tech is a thing only certain kinds of men, who look a certain way, really know about. 

[LucySpectre]

21 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Seems like many are not willing to be honest about why people do the things and jobs they do.

Because of outdated and unnesseary societal norms that need to be highlighted & challenged and not accepted as "the way things are" because that status quo suits some people just fine and they don't care to foster growth and development for the betterment of our society? 

[Uttamattamakin]

30 minutes ago, saintlouisbagels said:

¹ um, I don't know the etiquette of whether or not to include Emily Young in this statement

She's a she and she's a writer.  Trust me being trans does not make things easier.    One trans man named Ben Barres would always tell a story of hearing "Your work is so much better than your sisters".   When the work was also by the same exact mind.  Consider the issues Ben talks about here. 

 

In fact how much people change how they act if you change your gender identity really brings home how much gender does matter.   These things happen to transwomen too. 

 

24 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Why isn't there an equal push to get women into jobs and industries dominated by women?

Seems like many are not willing to be honest about why people do the things and jobs they do.

Really why do you think people do the jobs they do.  Can you back it up with peer reviewed published research that would stand up to my academic scrutiny? @LuckySpectre  Exactly. 

 

19 minutes ago, fartmuncher69_420 said:

I'd love to see more female hosts. My daughter is at that age where she loves Disney princesses more than computer processors but seeing women in things does make a huge difference to boosting her interest in things. Even if she's only seeing videos in the background because daddy is watching them.

 

I have worked with some amazing women in IT, many of whom are much smarter than me. 

I'd love to see that too.  Problem is quite a lot of their fans and followers would not act right about it.  IF they do this then the women they hire need to be very Margaret Thatcher like, like name a female ruler or politician.  If they are trans they have to be able to be like Blaire White and be that Iron Clad B Word for simply having a backbone.  

 

[ToboRobot]

1 minute ago, LucySpectre said:

Because of outdated and unnecessary societal norms that need to be highlighted & challenged and not accepted as "the way things are" because that status quo suits some people just fine and they don't care to foster growth and development for the betterment of our society? 

Maybe it's not as outdated and unnecessary as you state without evidence as you make it seem.

Maybe there are biological reasons for some norms.

Maybe changing the status quo suits some people just fine and not everyone else.

 

Maybe the change proposed isn't better for the growth and development and society?  After all, many of these "outdated" norms have stood the test of time, for a very long time.

[ToboRobot]

1 minute ago, Uttamattamakin said:

 

Really why do you think people do the jobs they do.  Can you back it up with peer reviewed published research that would stand up to my academic scrutiny?

 

What is your explanation?

[tech.guru]

even emily who everyone liked and the community loved is MIA. as soon as she transitioned to a woman we no longer see her in any videos

[Uttamattamakin]

2 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Maybe it's not as outdated and unnecessary as you state without evidence as you make it seem.

Ok here's evidence. 

https://www.history.com/news/coding-used-to-be-a-womans-job-so-it-was-paid-less-and-undervalued

 

More evidence

https://www.purdueglobal.edu/blog/information-technology/history-women-information-technology-6-female-computer-science-pioneers/

 

More evidence, peer reviewed evidence. https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1219536.pdf 

Quote

Results also indicate that females do equally as well or better in programming comprehension. In one comprehension question following the tutorial, women significantly outperformed men demonstrating that women may have a higher aptitude for computer programming; however, they are underrepresented in the job market. Based on our results, we suggest that more should be done in early formative years to attract females into computer programming to aid in filling the gap of the projected employment market.

 

2 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Maybe there are biological reasons for some norms.

See above.  When it comes to computing no there are not biological reasons for these norms.  

 

Yes there are differences between males and females on a neurological level.  However, those relate to specific areas of the brain that deal with mate selection and child rearing.    Heck what is programming a computer but a detailed list of instructions.  Mothers never give anyone instructions. 

 

2 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Maybe changing the status quo suits some people just fine and not everyone else.

Who is "everyone"?

2 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Maybe the change proposed isn't better for the growth and development and society?  After all, many of these "outdated" norms have stood the test of time, for a very long time.

See above.  Not even 50 years ago computing was seen as a unisex activity.  It was starting to be seen as for men, but those men were "geeks" and "nerds".  Only in the late 80's to 90's did it become a status thing for men to be into computers.   

 

5 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

What is your explanation?

Following the authoritative sources gives us the reason for this. 
 

Again I cannot emphasize enough it is not just an opinion or speculation women are provably as good at IT, STEM etc as anyone. 

 

Why inspite of this do they have more trouble finding and keeping jobs in IT and STEM more generally. 

DISCRIMINATION.  When it was seen as being "Just like planning a dinner" men were happy to let women do it. https://americanhistory.si.edu/blog/feminization-computer-programming

When it became well paid work that could support a family, back at a time when a woman could not get a credit card on her own in some states of the US, men muscled in. 

 

[LucySpectre]

8 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Maybe it's not as outdated and unnecessary as you state without evidence as you make it seem.

Maybe there are biological reasons for some norms.

Maybe changing the status quo suits some people just fine and not everyone else.

 

Maybe the change proposed isn't better for the growth and development and society?  After all, many of these "outdated" norms have stood the test of time, for a very long time.

 

 

 

 Oh dear me.

I can't work out if this is this second rate trolling or you are being honest. 

Either way, I'm not to engage with this sort of diatribe. 

 

[rickyc12s]

You aren't entirely wrong, but it's really the community/audience at fault. People want to see Linus more then anything, as evident but just how many videos Linus himself hosts and how many views he is responsible for. This is just how big and OG channels work, if the OG host leaves the channel dies - I can't think of a single channel that has survived it's OG host leaving.

 

I 100% think there should be more female hosts, but what happens when those videos perform poorly due to the audience wanting to see Linus or other male hosts? This isn't an LMG issue or even a Tech issue, it's a human issue. How many big car review channels are women? or Doctor channels? or Gaming? or Renovation? - Anything really, you can probably name 1 female hosted channel (which will never be the biggest) but 5-6 male hosted channels which are bigger.

 

I think LMG need to actually hire presenters. Far as I can see no one at LMG is employed as a presenter. Everyone has a job and hosts videos on the side, which for a lot of videos is fine but it leaves the pool of potential hosts quite limited and when the pool of women at LMG is already quite limited it compounds to having a small selection of a small selection of women as potentially hosts.

 

 

 

 

[rickyc12s]

9 minutes ago, tech.guru said:

even emily who everyone liked and the community loved is MIA. as soon as she transitioned to a woman we no longer see her in any videos

Which she stated was her choice. And a valid one given how rabid and vile the internet is. Now in 2023 with the state of politics and America's war on trans can you really blame her for not wanting to put herself in that position?

[schwarzerrogen]

Or, is it a possibility that none of the female members of LMG really want to be in videos? That is a very distinct possibility and as such there may be little LMG can do until they gain female staff who want to do regular videos?

[Uttamattamakin]

25 minutes ago, tech.guru said:

even emily who everyone liked and the community loved is MIA. as soon as she transitioned to a woman we no longer see her in any videos

There can be a lot of reasons for this.  I will not speak for anyone else.  She did say in a video she does not feel comfortable on camera.  

Consider the following video of how hostile people are towards the transwoman in this viral video. Consider how many trans women stream on various adult cam sites.  You know it takes a certain level of tech savvy to have a stream that is quality, going for hours, with no help, and also putting on a show.  So many of those transwomen can be amazingly computer geeky but if you look like this one. 

You don't get called a geek.  Instead you get bastards making horrible comments about you while also looking at you and clearly being turned on.  That is what a transwoman who looks like the one in that video is going to get.  

 

Emily I guarantee you would get nasty sexual comments asking very inappropriate things mixed with hostility. 

 

14 minutes ago, rickyc12s said:

Which she stated was her choice. And a valid one given how rabid and vile the internet is. Now in 2023 with the state of politics and America's war on trans can you really blame her for not wanting to put herself in that position?

I cosign this.  Lets not put Emily on the spot for this.  Consider the hostility that transwomen who are like the one in the above viral video,Emma Rose, or Blaire White, or Kim Petras, or ... go to any adult camming website and randomly pick a transwoman who does that.   Consider the hostility and comments you see even there where people are free to say it.  

Emily would get that but worse. Just let her go through a bit more metamorphosis in private. 

[tech.guru]

1 minute ago, rickyc12s said:

Which she stated was her choice. And a valid one given how rabid and vile the internet is. Now in 2023 with the state of politics and America's war on trans can you really blame her for not wanting to put herself in that position?

I don't blame her at all.

I'm just pointing out that she now identifies as a woman and we don't see her.

[Uttamattamakin]

4 minutes ago, schwarzerrogen said:

Or, is it a possibility that none of the female members of LMG really want to be in videos? That is a very distinct possibility and as such there may be little LMG can do until they gain female staff who want to do regular videos?

You can see pictures of most if not all of the staff.  Count up how many women there are.  Plus not all job descriptions call for being on camera. 

[schwarzerrogen]

1 minute ago, Uttamattamakin said:

You can see pictures of most if not all of the staff.  Count up how many women there are.  Plus not all job descriptions call for being on camera. 

I counted 10 in a quick glance, which is a woefully low number.

[Uttamattamakin]

Just now, schwarzerrogen said:

I counted 10 in a quick glance, which is a woefully low number.

About the same as mine I counted 12.  

 

To offer a bit of a defense of LMG.  If you are a woman looking for a job, and look at that, it can make one think twice.  Women may choose to just not apply there and instead go for other options in tech.  IT would take a long term commitment to interview more women and hence hire more women.   It is a valid thing to go out and recruit women and or minorities who are not stereotyped as being tech savvy for a job.   Jackie Robinson didn't de segregate baseball alone.  He had to have a major league owner willing to take the heat too.