Female representation in the LMG & the tech media sphere

[LucySpectre]

So far a fiar bit of the focus has been on the numbers. Don't forget that an equally important part of this discussion is also about the role and representation of women when they do sporadically appear. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

39 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Maybe there are biological reasons for some norms.

 

26 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Again I cannot emphasize enough it is not just an opinion or speculation women are provably as good at IT, STEM etc as anyone. 

 

Why inspite of this do they have more trouble finding and keeping jobs in IT and STEM more generally. 

DISCRIMINATION.  When it was seen as being "Just like planning a dinner" men were happy to let women do it. https://americanhistory.si.edu/blog/feminization-computer-programming

When it became well paid work that could support a family, back at a time when a woman could not get a credit card on her own in some states of the US, men muscled in.

Theres clearly many many sides to this

 

On one hand there are definitely biological reasons for men and women to dominate in their respective industries where if some man decides to dress like a women and go by she/her they/them or whatever bullshit pronouns that are incomprehensible to me he can enter a womens race and be miles and miles ahead of those biological women

 

On the other some men are stupid and decide to start abusing their powers and actually descriminate against women (assuming equal working hours but women get less pay, not women less working hours less pay cause thats to be expected if you work less hours)

 

Then theres the shitshow that is progressiveness and trying to radically change society which then results in the bullshit mentioned above where men dressed up as women can enter womens races and destroy them by a huge margin, then theres men that dress up as nuns and mock christianity, and more bullshit thats causing some trans war in america/canada whatever woke ass countries cause the trans went too far and started really pissing off the general public which then started turning into a war

 

I simply cannot comprehend the radical progressive brain rot anymore as a guy that lives in and enjoys a traditional and pretty conservative society where proper social norms exist and both men and women stick to their roles which so far seems to be working just fine, and this is the kind of society where men that act like women or act women like will be shunned depending on which parts you visit. ill just have to hope this doesnt spread over here which it problably wont for the foreseeable future as long as religion doesnt lose too much grip on society

[shrimpboyho3]

1 hour ago, LucySpectre said:

Considering the number of videos uploaded by all the associated channels, the ratio female representation on display is low. Very low. 

You could point to a small handful of videos that feature guests or irregular staff members. But they are distinct outliers. 

 

Having worked in IT for the past 15 years or more I've seen the real world representation of women in the tech industry. Whilst it's clearly skewed towards guys, the ratio of female representation seen in LMG videos is far from being indicative of the female representation in the industry. 

To compound this lack of representation the women that do appear on screen are seldom if ever shown as positive and competent tech role models. They're shown as people learning or damsels in tech distress. Yvonne is clearly an exception to this, and if I need to explain why then you're already way behind. 

Overall tech media is a sausagefest and the attitude often found on forums and in youtube video comment sections exacerbates the situation with an over arching attitude that the only women we should see on our screens should be approripately aesthetically pleasing and/or non-threatening. 

 

I'll be very clear that this is not a request for representation on the screen to meet arbitrary quotas for the sake of it, so you stop reaching for that pitch fork right now.

 

As a leader in the representation of the tech community online, I would hope that LMG consider the representation of their female staff and the female guests that they bring on and choose to steer away from the tired stereotypes that women are tarred with in the tech sphere and choose to show their female audience that they can be as capable and confident with tech as the boys are. 
 

 

You said it yourself, there are more men in tech than women, and thus more men knowledgeable about tech than women.

 

Because of this, the only people brought on videos who are knowledgeable about tech are... men. And unfortunately, there are no women in the organization who are nearly as knowledgeable, because all of them are video editors/some other non-tech role

 

So what you're asking for is currently impossible unless the women in LMG are blatantly incorrectly represented, or if more women are hired, something that is also difficult due to the aforementioned skew of male/female representation.

[Electricity Taster]

I hope to see Emily Young back one day. Part because she's trans, part because she knows her stuff.

[shrimpboyho3]

1 minute ago, Electricity Taster said:

I hope to see Emily Young back one day. Part because she's trans, part because she knows her stuff.

That's the thing, she's trans.

 

Say what you want, I'm not transphobic, but what's stopping biological men from labeling themselves as women to fulfill quotas of "equality" society is rightly pushing towards.

 

And no, I don't want to go in an in depth discussion about people being trans. I just want someone to respond to this at face value. Like fr, what's stopping them?

 

Honestly I feel like bringing up trans people (again, no disrespect intended) skews this entire discussion as at one point they identified as the opposite gender.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

I can support some progressiveness that does better society like opening up more options and descriminating less against women which WILL better society, but theres such a thing as too progressive where all you are doing is ruining society

 

If women simply arent that prevelant in the tech space then thats problably because alot of women are not that interested in tech, theres nothing to fix here as long as that stays constant, which seems to be the case

 

Men and women simply have different interests alot of the time so ofc theres some discrepancies in some industries/sectors like tech, you dont have to include absolutely everyone because not everyone is interested in that particular industry/sector

 

Its ridicolous to have to include everyone cause not everyone WANTS to be included and forcing inclusivity is only gonna result in shitshows like disney

[Uttamattamakin]

14 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

 

SNIP

Everything you wrote only proves and backs up the point I was making.  You just lack the "biological" ability to understand how. 

I cited above research that shows there is no biological reason for there to be fewer women in computer science or STEM in general.    The fact that people stop beliving the word of a transwoman on tech, despite the fact that   so many of them are able to get their OBS cam stream working so conservatives can get their thrills. 

https://medium.com/@AnnaBrianna/the-red-states-watch-the-most-trans-porn-5d432b9f0141

Which is a consistent trend. 

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/news/a59335/states-with-anti-trans-laws-watch-the-most-trans-porn/ (this one is from 2016)

 

It takes a lot of tech savvy to set up OBS, with a good camera, have a good GPU so you can use NVENC.  Get the various ... devices that allow the show to be interactive.  Getting paid can also be a bit technical since they can't just use any credit card processor.  etc. 

 

It just says something that even transwomen face the same issue as women when it comes to this.  I mean if biology is the root of all this... then you should have NO PROBLEM with transwomen being in tech. 

 

 

[Omnipius]

10 minutes ago, rickyc12s said:

I think LMG need to actually hire presenters. Far as I can see no one at LMG is employed as a presenter. Everyone has a job and hosts videos on the side, which for a lot of videos is fine but it leaves the pool of potential hosts quite limited and when the pool of women at LMG is already quite limited it compounds to having a small selection of a small selection of women as potentially hosts.

You're forgetting about Jonathan Horst for Mac Address. Nothing against him, he does a great job, but that was probably a missed opportunity for female representation. I'd love to see Emily come back to hosting videos, but I understand why she doesn't want to be on camera right now. 

 

I think hiring female talent as a dedicated host would be a fantastic idea, provided the issues experienced by the last female creator LTT hired are corrected. To anyone that doesn't like that idea, remember that more representation of a type of person in a space means more of that type of person as fans of that space. There's work we all have to do to make it a reality, but what PC loving guy wouldn't want there to be more women they had PCs and gaming in common with?

[Why_Me]

57 minutes ago, rickyc12s said:

Which she stated was her choice. And a valid one given how rabid and vile the internet is. Now in 2023 with the state of politics and America's war on trans can you really blame her for not wanting to put herself in that position?

And what war on trans in the US would that be or should people be forced to play along with a scientific lie?

[Why_Me]

1 hour ago, Uttamattamakin said:

She's a she and she's a writer.  Trust me being trans does not make things easier.    One trans man named Ben Barres would always tell a story of hearing "Your work is so much better than your sisters".   When the work was also by the same exact mind.  Consider the issues Ben talks about here. 

 

In fact how much people change how they act if you change your gender identity really brings home how much gender does matter.   These things happen to transwomen too. 

 

Really why do you think people do the jobs they do.  Can you back it up with peer reviewed published research that would stand up to my academic scrutiny? @LuckySpectre  Exactly. 

 

I'd love to see that too.  Problem is quite a lot of their fans and followers would not act right about it.  IF they do this then the women they hire need to be very Margaret Thatcher like, like name a female ruler or politician.  If they are trans they have to be able to be like Blaire White and be that Iron Clad B Word for simply having a backbone.  

 

There's no such thing as a 'trans woman'.  You're either a male (XY chromosome) or a female (XX chromosome). Fact of the matter is less females take STEM classes in high school and college.  And yes childbearing does play a part seeing how that's called 'real biology'.  Men and women are not the same and that is another one of those 'facts'.  

 

People suggesting what sex, race, etc ... that LMG should hire makes my stomach turn. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

4 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Everything you wrote only proves and backs up the point I was making.  You just lack the "biological" ability to understand how. 

I cited above research that shows there is no biological reason for there to be fewer women in computer science or STEM in general.    The fact that people stop beliving the word of a transwoman on tech, despite the fact that   so many of them are able to get their OBS cam stream working so conservatives can get their thrills. 

https://medium.com/@AnnaBrianna/the-red-states-watch-the-most-trans-porn-5d432b9f0141

Which is a consistent trend. 

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/news/a59335/states-with-anti-trans-laws-watch-the-most-trans-porn/ (this one is from 2016)

 

It takes a lot of tech savvy to set up OBS, with a good camera, have a good GPU so you can use NVENC.  Get the various ... devices that allow the show to be interactive.  Getting paid can also be a bit technical since they can't just use any credit card processor.  etc. 

 

It just says something that even transwomen face the same issue as women when it comes to this.  I mean if biology is the root of all this... then you should have NO PROBLEM with transwomen being in tech.

I have no problem with anything that isnt bothering me, wether it be women or men dressed up as women, as long as they dont piss me off i wont have any sort of beef with em, in fact i support women if they wish to try more stuff, its just a matter of IF they wanna try more stuff like tech, im religious so cant support trans or lgbt shenanigans but i dont have any inherent beef with em either, theyre free to do whatever as long as theyre not bothering me

 

as for women not being in stuff that is inherently not physical like tech i think thats just a matter of interest rather than biology, maybe society might play into this aswell

 

 

2 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

And what war on trans in the US would that be or should people be forced to play along with a scientific lie?

as soon as anyone on twitter or  whatever left wing site sees this theyre gonna get real pissed because entitlement xD

 

"oH nO sOmEoNe DiDnT rEfEr To Me CoRrEcTlY i GuEsS i ShOuLd HaRrAsS tHe ShIt OuT oF eM bEcAuSe Im A MeNtTaLlY dErAnGeD eNtiTlTlEd ThEy/tHeM"

 

I mean its only a vocal minority of the rainbow group but man are they good at pissing everyone off and making their group look like complete shit and acheive the total opposite of what theyre trying to acheive

 

Bro spitting fax tho

[Irisena]

Given the general wisdom is "men love their tools, women love their looks", it comes as no surprise if men dominate the tech space since y'know, you can consider that a computer is a "tool" of sorts. It's kinda the same that not much men works in make-up industry or something, it's just how it is.

 

That being said, I'd love more woman represented in this space, but there's just not much women interested in tech i suppose. 

[LucySpectre]

55 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

 

Its ridicolous to have to include everyone cause not everyone WANTS to be included and forcing inclusivity is only gonna result in shitshows like disney

Read the OP. 

You're way way off topic and off point with this statement. 

Instead you're jumping on the same tired old bandwagon and waving your pitchfork and having a whinge about something you think is happening rather than processing what's being put forth and applying some critical thought to it. 

Do better. 

 

[LucySpectre]

33 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

 

People suggesting what sex, race, etc ... that LMG should hire makes my stomach turn. 

Once you've settled down from your rage against the chromosomes you may realise what you're suggesting here is not the case. 

Like others, you've peformed the classic knee jerk reaction. 

The OP discusses the representation of women, not who/what LMG should hire. 

If you like I will explain the difference. But it you choose to remain belligerent, then I'll leave you to your rage. 

[Why_Me]

Just now, LucySpectre said:

Once you've settled down from your rage against the chromosomes you may realise what you're suggesting here is not the case. 

Like others, you've peformed the classic knee jerk reaction. 

The OP discusses the representation of women, not who/what LMG should hire. 

If you like I will explain the difference. But it you choose to remain belligerent, then I'll leave you to your rage. 

I'd be curious to know the ratio of males vs females interested in tech.  

 

https://linustechtips.com/forum/18-new-builds-and-planning/   <--- if I had to guess I'd say less than one in thirty posters starting threads in that forum are female and that includes the ones pretending to be female.  

[LucySpectre]

3 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

I'd be curious to know the ratio of males vs females interested in tech.  

 

https://linustechtips.com/forum/18-new-builds-and-planning/   <--- if I had to guess I'd say less than one in thirty posters starting threads in that forum are female and that includes the ones pretending to be female.  

Could you explain to me how you interperet my original post here?  Express in your own words, what you believe the issue(s) being raised are? 
 

[Waifu4Life]

As someone who's work in technical support for over 15 years and who has spoken to thousands of people, I feel like I can drop-in my 2 cents. While women who are good with tech are not a myth, there are far from being the norm. I'm not just talking about an older demography either, a lot of our female customers in their mid-twenties are computer illiterate, pecking on their keyboard, having to confirm if they must do a right click or a left click and not knowing the difference between their monitor or computer.

 

The main issue is that they don't care and feel like everyone else will resolve any problem they'll get. School systems really need to get young girls interested technology before they leave for college because by then, I feel like it's too late. Computers aren't just a luxury nowadays, they're a necessity, probably more important than owning and knowing how to drive a car.

[Why_Me]

4 minutes ago, Waifu4Life said:

As someone who's work in technical support for over 15 years and who has spoken to thousands of people, I feel like I can drop-in my 2 cents. While women who are good with tech are not a myth, there are far from being the norm. I'm not just talking about an older demography either, a lot of our female customers in their mid-twenties are computer illiterate, pecking on their keyboard, having to confirm if they must do a right click or a left click and not knowing the difference between their monitor or computer.

 

The main issue is that they don't care and feel like everyone else will resolve any problem they'll get. School systems really need to get young girls interested technology before they leave for college because by then, I feel like it's too late. Computers aren't just a luxury nowadays, they're a necessity, probably more important than owning and knowing how to drive a car.

'School systems need to get young girls interested in technology'.  I'm pretty sure both sexes have the same opportunity in school to go whatever direction they choose.  Fact of the matter is men and women don't think alike hence the reason there are far less females taking STEM classes. It's called evolution.

[Uttamattamakin]

1 minute ago, Waifu4Life said:

As someone who's work in technical support for over 15 years and who has spoken to thousands of people, I feel like I can drop-in my 2 cents. While women who are good with tech are not a myth, there are far from being the norm. I'm not just talking about an older demography either, a lot of our female customers in their mid-twenties are computer illiterate, pecking on their keyboard, having to confirm if they must do a right click or a left click and not knowing the difference between their monitor or computer.

Working in tech support you can't do this at your job.  However, in the situations where you are being the IT for all your friends (as happens to anyone who is good at computer stuff) try this.  

Don't help them.   See if they can do it themselves. 

An issue with young women in STEM related things is often that they know BUT lack confidence in their own abilities.  I've had young women claim to "not know" the answers to problems they just worked out by themselves in math because "They don't know how they were able to do it".  Then have them redo it and talk through every step and still "not feel like they know how they know it".  

A lot of men will on the other hand be confidently wrong.  

 

1 minute ago, Waifu4Life said:

The main issue is that they don't care and feel like everyone else will resolve any problem they'll get. School systems really need to get young girls interested technology before they leave for college because by then, I feel like it's too late. Computers aren't just a luxury nowadays, they're a necessity, probably more important than owning and knowing how to drive a car.

This can be the case... but society also does not expect them to know these things and settle them for themselves.  They internalize this false narrative about themselves. 

[Waifu4Life]

4 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

'School systems need to get young girls interested in technology'.  I'm pretty sure both sexes have the same opportunity in school to go whatever direction they choose.  Fact of the matter is men and women don't think alike hence the reason there are far less females taking STEM classes. It's called evolution.

Of course they have the freedom to choose, but let's be real, schools are probably not making computer classes interesting enough for young girls. Sometimes, you need to put the proper bait on the end of that stick, not everyone like carrots.

[Uttamattamakin]

1 minute ago, Why_Me said:

'School systems need to get young girls interested in technology'.  I'm pretty sure both sexes have the same opportunity in school to go whatever direction they choose.  Fact of the matter is men and women don't think alike hence the reason there are far less females taking STEM classes. It's called evolution.

Patently false and I've cited a few peer reviewed sources up thread that say so.  

 

Here are a few more. 

Stereotypes are engrained at a YOUNG age who is and is not good at STEM 

https://www.washington.edu/news/2021/11/22/kids-teens-believe-girls-arent-interested-in-computer-science-study-shows/

 

Github based study https://www.learningpeople.com/uk/blog/career-advice/5-reasons-women-make-great-coders/#:~:text=Although men famously make up,they outperform their male colleagues.

 

Last but not least if you discount all of that.  

You know the many MANY camgirls that are out there.  Who do you think set up their streaming rigs? 

They had to obtain the right kind of internet service.  Wire their home for it.  Then get the right kind of camera, microphone, computer, GPU and CPU for it.  If they are streaming in more than 480p they do all of this on their own.  The prime reasons they do are because well ... that's just being a cam girl tee hee tee hee.  Nothing techincal about it tee hee tee hee.  

On the more educated side of that.  Every female teacher who had to teach online classes the last several years had to master a lot of technology and try to use it to teach childrenl, or teens, or even college courses.  This was not easy.  Being able to orchestrate a live stream is not trivial if you want anything more than a single camera static shot. 

So I've given you several lines of proof that what you are saying is false.  It'd be nice if it convinces you but it will suffice if it just keeps others from thinking as you do. 

 

[Waifu4Life]

6 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

This can be the case... but society also does not expect them to know these things and settle them for themselves.  They internalize this false narrative about themselves. 

Well that's also true, society are more concern about making them interested in the latest celebrity gossips than technology. Still, if schools did better, I'd probably have more female colleagues today.

[Why_Me]

7 minutes ago, Waifu4Life said:

Of course they have the freedom to choose, but let's be real, schools are probably not making computer classes interesting enough for young girls. Sometimes, you need to put the proper bait on the end of that stick, not everyone like carrots.

Let's be honest ... males and females do not share the same interest a lot of the time nor do they think alike. 

[Why_Me]

4 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Patently false and I've cited a few peer reviewed sources up thread that say so.  

 

Here are a few more. 

Stereotypes are engrained at a YOUNG age who is and is not good at STEM 

https://www.washington.edu/news/2021/11/22/kids-teens-believe-girls-arent-interested-in-computer-science-study-shows/

 

Github based study https://www.learningpeople.com/uk/blog/career-advice/5-reasons-women-make-great-coders/#:~:text=Although men famously make up,they outperform their male colleagues.

 

Last but not least if you discount all of that.  

You know the many MANY camgirls that are out there.  Who do you think set up their streaming rigs? 

They had to obtain the right kind of internet service.  Wire their home for it.  Then get the right kind of camera, microphone, computer, GPU and CPU for it.  If they are streaming in more than 480p they do all of this on their own.  The prime reasons they do are because well ... that's just being a cam girl tee hee tee hee.  Nothing techincal about it tee hee tee hee.  

On the more educated side of that.  Every female teacher who had to teach online classes the last several years had to master a lot of technology and try to use it to teach childrenl, or teens, or even college courses.  This was not easy.  Being able to orchestrate a live stream is not trivial if you want anything more than a single camera static shot. 

So I've given you several lines of proof that what you are saying is false.  It'd be nice if it convinces you but it will suffice if it just keeps others from thinking as you do. 

 

You're comparing teachers who had to figure out how to set up Zoom classes with the help of the schools to someone interested in tech.  

[ColHomer]

2 hours ago, tech.guru said:

even emily who everyone liked and the community loved is MIA. as soon as she transitioned to a woman we no longer see her in any videos

I don't think this is true. I remember her doing one after her transition but I think there was some backlash from that so she's shied away from getting back in front of the camera. She did appear is some of the LTX videos and I think she was very surprised by all of the support she got from LTX and said she was rethinking about getting back in front of the camera. I'm sure that's a hard decision to make for her given the risks.