Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Alan999]

Where would be the best place to ask Steve to address the communication that was omitted between Billet Labs and LMG? I would love to know who held those additional emails back.

As reported by GN, I feel it was by far the most egregious mistake made by LMG. It also made Linus' initial response seem even more heartless.

Now it's come to light that Billet Labs told LMG to keep the block initially and only requested its return after the terrible review (in many ways) changes the landscape massively, for me anyway.

I watch most of LMG and all of GN content and can't believe I'm currently more annoyed with Steve than Linus at this point. If he doesn't discuss this key piece of info, it becomes even more of a hit piece. Should Steve not correct his errors too?

[forgotusername]

On 8/17/2023 at 10:53 PM, NubCak said:

unions lmao. Unions shield the shitty workers and dock pay from the good ones. You're naive if you believe Unions are good.

Yeah none of what you say makes sense.

Unions or GTFO

[Loopers]

6 hours ago, escape093 said:

LMG not further testing a small company's product because they don't want to spend an extra $500 on labor, and then knowingly publishing inaccurate data based on faulty testing, and then going on to publicly misrepresent the product and tarnishing what little reputation a small company like Billet Labs has - again, based on knowing inaccurate data

 

is not the same as

 

Steve not reaching out to Linus (of huge media company with giant reach, LMG) because it may give him the opportunity to run out ahead of the narrative (which he then tried to do anyway with his initial response), and publishing data he believes, to the best of his ability and knowledge, to be accurate and objective information 

It's perplexing to see how you justify your reasons based on company size, not merit. How about you try that again without excuses for both?

[forgotusername]

2 minutes ago, Loopers said:

It's perplexing to see how you justify your reasons based on company size, not merit. How about you try that again without excuses for both?

If it is a small channel so small that it doesn't have a view count to meet monetization, I'd give them a pass for not spending USD 500 to retest.

 

Fuck Linus for saying he won't spend USD 500 of employee time to retest something that could ruin a small business.

Dude landed in a really good spot. He has employees who actually care about their job. Just let them do their job. His wife said they aren't struggling for money and she'd know if money was tight.

 

The whole problem can be summed as Linus always butts in where he has no place butting in with his inane opinions. He is an idiot.

 

Also to sum up, let LMG employees unionize. That is clearly the solution here.

[Loopers]

3 hours ago, Goriss said:

So yet another joke from LTT I thought so. The first "apology" video was a joke so why not make another joke. But who is laughing?

I'm struggling to figure out if you're being serious or not. 

[Loopers]

9 minutes ago, forgotusername said:

If it is a small channel so small that it doesn't have a view count to meet monetization, I'd give them a pass for not spending USD 500 to retest.

 

Fuck Linus for saying he won't spend USD 500 of employee time to retest something that could ruin a small business.

Dude landed in a really good spot. He has employees who actually care about their job. Just let them do their job. His wife said they aren't struggling for money and she'd know if money was tight.

 

The whole problem can be summed as Linus always butts in where he has no place butting in with his inane opinions. He is an idiot.

 

Also to sum up, let LMG employees unionize. That is clearly the solution here.

The size of a company is irrelevant. No number of words used changes that.

[Lumpy Custard]

3 hours ago, Majestic12 said:

HOWEVER. I also understand where Linus is getting at. He felt the product was just a bad idea for its price point and clearly wasn't in the mood to spend a lot of time on it since he didn't feel it was worth recommending to people even if it did work well. It feels like he was pushed into it by one of his staff and felt spending more time on it was wasted. If it hadn't been for GN no-one would even have cared though.

 

It's not his job to decide that. It's his job as a reviewer to give the product every chance it can to succeed and to provide us with impartial data to make our own decisions.

 

Some people buy $1,000 keyboards because the keys make a certain sound that they like, some people spent $2500 on a 4090 at the peak of COVID pricing because they want the best performance no matter what, and some people build insane multi thousand dollar custom watercooling setups in modded mini ITX cases because they want to extract every possible degree of performance out of their computer in the smallest possible size.

 

It's LTT's job to give the viewer objective data regardless of what he thinks of the product's value proposition.

 

Try Googling "billet labs review" and you'll find that it's literally impossible to actually get a review on their waterblock at this point because of this entire dumpster fire.

 

I don't care if the product is insanely priced, i don't care if it's over engineered, and i think it's disgusting, disingenuous, and honestly pathetic child-like behaviour for Linus to essentially say that regardless of the performance, it's a dumb product. I'm sorry WHAT? For a channel that has videos on watercooling servers with a POOL and reviews of PETABYTE SERVERS, Linus of all people should understand that there are those who are willing to pay for the bleeding edge of technology. If this waterblock was 20c cooler than the next best watercooling block on the market would it still be dumb because it's priced at US$800?

 

Long story short, a reviewer (in the case of performance testing) is meant to provide impartial data and allow the viewer to form their own opinion on the product. It's not Linus' job to decide that a product is dumb and therefore sandbagging it by installing it on the wrong GPU and proclaiming it's stupid is suddenly OK.

[Needfuldoer]

6 hours ago, Cooldoe said:

3. About editing with text in the video. Steve know it is normal in creator or even in news segment but he did not disclose that. If he take issue about that then he should disclose that and also criticize other big creator that definitely have done that.

I've been in TV news for over a decade. No, it is not "normal" or even acceptable to flash asterisks and corrections on-screen.

 

If your script is wrong, you rewrite it.

If your graphic is wrong, you fix it.

If your VO is wrong, you re-record it.

If your entire story is wrong, you retract it.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Needfuldoer
Whoops, fixed the quote box to point to the original post, not another post that quoted it.

[Lumpy Custard]

1 minute ago, Needfuldoer said:

I've been in TV news for over a decade. No, it is not "normal" or even acceptable to flash asterisks and corrections on-screen.

 

If your script is wrong, you rewrite it.

If your graphic is wrong, you fix it.

If your VO is wrong, you re-record it.

If your entire story is wrong, you retract it.

Especially true in the case of YouTube where people might be listening to the video in the background or playing its audio in the car. I routinely listen to longform reviews in the car and there sure as shit isn't any way for me to HEAR a text correction flashed on screen for 1.5 seconds.

[Cavalry Canuck]

38 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

I've been in TV news for over a decade. No, it is not "normal" or even acceptable to flash asterisks and corrections on-screen.

 

If your script is wrong, you rewrite it.

If your graphic is wrong, you fix it.

If your VO is wrong, you re-record it.

If your entire story is wrong, you retract it.

You only quoted part of that specific point, which takes away some of the context of it. That said, I don’t necessarily like the asterisks/quick graphic edits for the point @Lumpy Custardmade, as I’m one of those people who listens while I drive. But the point that everyone in the tech review space does it is factual. I hate it and wish the practice would end.

[Godlygamer23]

3 minutes ago, Cavalry Canuck said:

Speaking of which, you’ve miss-labeled who you quoted for that statement. You also only quoted part of that particular, which takes away some of the context of it.

Is that even possible? Who else was he supposed to quote?

[Cavalry Canuck]

1 minute ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Is that even possible? Who else was he supposed to quote?

Well I didn’t say it, but my name is on it.

[Godlygamer23]

Just now, Cavalry Canuck said:

Well I didn’t say it, but my name is on it.

Who did then? I see one post that uses a format that is similar to what is quoted, but it's a totally different statement. 

[Cavalry Canuck]

Just now, Godlygamer23 said:

Who did then? I see one post that uses a format that is similar to what is quoted, but it's a totally different statement. 

Someone I quoted, @Cooldoe. See post 7 of this page (325). I believe the original post I quoted was on page 324.

[Godlygamer23]

2 minutes ago, Cavalry Canuck said:

Someone I quoted, @Cooldoe. See post 7 of this page (325). I believe the original post I quoted was on page 324.

I see what happened.

@Needfuldoer probably highlighted the text of the quote from your post, and hit "quote selection". Since it's actually coming from your post, the forum software makes it look like you said it, so it doesn't differentiate between the quoted and non-quoted portions of a post.

[Cavalry Canuck]

9 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

I see what happened.

@Needfuldoer probably highlighted the text of the quote from your post, and hit "quote selection". Since it's actually coming from your post, the forum software makes it look like you said it, so it doesn't differentiate between the quoted and non-quoted portions of a post.

Yea. I didn’t think there was any malice behind it. I love glitches.

 

But given what he just said (and the context of the conversation at large), I felt it’d be best to point it out so @Needfuldoer can fix it. I’ll delete that portion of my post when he does.

[Needfuldoer]

30 minutes ago, Cavalry Canuck said:

Speaking of which, you’ve miss-labeled who you quoted for that statement. You also only quoted part of that specific point, which takes away some of the context of it.

I don’t like the asterisks/quick graphic edits for the point @Lumpy Custardmade, as I’m one of those people who listens while I drive. But the point that everyone in the tech review space does it is factual. I hate it and wish the practice would end.

Perfect example! I just selected that line from the quote in your post and quoted it. Apparently the CMS isn't smart enough to realize when you're quoting a quote somebody else quoted.

 

Fixed.

[Cavalry Canuck]

1 minute ago, Needfuldoer said:

Perfect example! I just selected that line from the quote in your post and quoted it. Apparently the CMS isn't smart enough to realize when you're quoting a quote somebody else quoted.

 

Fixed.

I’ve already forgotten what happened.  

[Majestic12]

57 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

I've been in TV news for over a decade. No, it is not "normal" or even acceptable to flash asterisks and corrections on-screen.

 

If your script is wrong, you rewrite it.

If your graphic is wrong, you fix it.

If your VO is wrong, you re-record it.

If your entire story is wrong, you retract it.

I should add an asterisk to your post with "* in Theory" At the bottom.

 

I don't know what utopian news TV channel you work for but seeing a news channel or site or paper correct or retract is as rare as an unicorn. Heck I worked for a newspaper some 15 years ago as photographer and I was there for many interviews and the end result in the paper was nearly always riddled with factual mistakes and some were pretty darn bad. The journalists simply don't give a fuck. I'd say adding an asterisks would actually be an IMPROVEMENT over how the media deals with mistakes right now. At best they call it an "update" and simply erase their mistakes.

[BigFatTeddy]

1 hour ago, forgotusername said:

Also to sum up, let LMG employees unionize. That is clearly the solution here.

I don't understand what this would resolve (besides the issues Madison claims to be present)?

 

How many organizations run by committees have you seen striving? The entire corporate culture of 21st century shows that solid leadership is relevant for developing successful corporations, especially in the tech sector. All of the leads within tech are highly antisocial, polarizing and, most of the time borderline psychotic. Yet by observation, you would conclude that organizations fare better if they stick with strong leaders, not committees.

 

So, what benefits would the employees experience if a union strongly influenced the organization?

[Needfuldoer]

4 minutes ago, Majestic12 said:

At best they call it an "update" and simply erase their mistakes.

Honestly, that's usually what happens if something erroneous manages to slip past a dozen people and make it to air.

 

But "if your entire story is wrong, you update it with the 'new' information without admitting fault" didn't have as much punch following the three other lines. 

[BigFatTeddy]

3 minutes ago, Majestic12 said:

I should add an asterisk to your post with "* in Theory" At the bottom.

 

I don't know what utopian news TV channel you work for but seeing a news channel or site or paper correct or retract is as rare as an unicorn. Heck I worked for a newspaper some 15 years ago as photographer and I was there for many interviews and the end result in the paper was nearly always riddled with factual mistakes and some were pretty darn bad. The journalists simply don't give a fuck. I'd say adding an asterisks would actually be an IMPROVEMENT over how the media deals with mistakes right now. At best they call it an "update" and simply erase their mistakes.

I would not limit this to media or news. This is true for every industry.

[FreelancerSystem]

On 8/14/2023 at 11:42 AM, jkh_ said:

That said, were I Steve I would have at least attempted to bring this to Linus privately. His concerns are valid, but I'm not sure I buy the "I'm not doing this for drama" pitch. This is absolutely drama, whether you monetized the video or not. I believe Steve sees an existential threat to his business in LMG Labs and wants to publicly hurt its credibility. I guess I just think there is a more professional way this could have been approached. If Steve took it to Linus and Linus reacted negatively or unprofessionally, then you can release a video and preface it with the fact that you tried to resolve this privately first.

I disagree. As Steve said in the HW news follow-up video, LMG is a corporation. That corporation informally attempted to slander GN and HU via that Labs tour clip. After the "Trust Me Bro" scandal, Steve has publicly stated that they will only report on LMG as a corporation and not as a personal relationship due to a conflict of interest for unbiased media coverage. With all that in mind, he has no obligation as a journalist outlet to contact LMG for comment on the situation before publishing a piece that exposes ethical and systemic issues within the company structure. When you attack an outlet that takes extreme pride in standardized hardware testing, you better have your ducks in a row. Which LMG didn't. So Steve did the appropriate thing and showed there were a lot of things LTT needs to figure out and change before they even think about comparing Labs to the quality of GN testing. Plus, a lot of large companies don't make any meaningful changes until they've been publicly exposed. GN avoided a major bullet by not reaching out to LTT for comment or trying to solve this behind closed doors, given Steve's promises on how he would be reporting on LTT and LMG.

[Cavalry Canuck]

1 minute ago, FreelancerSystem said:

I disagree. As Steve said in the HW news follow-up video, LMG is a corporation. That corporation informally attempted to slander GN and HU via that Labs tour clip. After the "Trust Me Bro" scandal, Steve has publicly stated that they will only report on LMG as a corporation and not as a personal relationship due to a conflict of interest for unbiased media coverage. With all that in mind, he has no obligation as a journalist outlet to contact LMG for comment on the situation before publishing a piece that exposes ethical and systemic issues within the company structure. When you attack an outlet that takes extreme pride in standardized hardware testing, you better have your ducks in a row. Which LMG didn't. So Steve did the appropriate thing and showed there were a lot of things LTT needs to figure out and change before they even think about comparing Labs to the quality of GN testing. Plus, a lot of large companies don't make any meaningful changes until they've been publicly exposed. GN avoided a major bullet by not reaching out to LTT for comment or trying to solve this behind closed doors, given Steve's promises on how he would be reporting on LTT and LMG.

How often has GN reported on controversies without reaching out for comment? 

[FreelancerSystem]

1 minute ago, Cavalry Canuck said:

How often has GN reported on controversies without reaching out for comment? 

That doesn't matter, GN isn't required to do it. The Artesian Builds docuseries was an example. Steve did investigative journalism, and "reaching out for comment" is different than "solving the issue behind closed doors". Those two things send very different messages. But it's also not required, he dug through videos and emails to find the evidence for what he was seeing and calling LTT out for. He's not obligated to call Linus and talk about it first.