Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Texbobcat]

6 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

Do you even comprehend what I just wrote? Not uploading any videos for well over 1 week, and slowing down right after, will have an impact that is 100 fold.

 

I bet, you never ran a company. How old are you? Still living with your parents? Any life outside your online gaming and troll bubble?

I'm in college
I'm a Electrical Engineer

Losing one week of funds isn't comparable to the damage he caused another business, and for how much they spend on the lab he can clearly fund to subsidize a week of uploads.

[Cooldoe]

9 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

There may not be any actual bias, it is the fact that Linus has a interest in Framework. It would be like a reviewer that is a shareholder for Intel or Nvidia for example doing product reviews, IMO they aren't going to be the most trustworthy source.

 

I agree the Billet labs block and the Pwnage mouse need to be fixed, and I think videos for those should be taken down, or a proper review for the Pwnage mouse.

 

In my opinion putting a note in the WAN show isn't a very good correction for things like messing up on the Billet labs or Pwnage mouse review.

 

I think they should re-shoot the corrections instead of just putting an asterisk with text in the video, or slow down with the content and get it right before uploading the video, as by the time corrections are made with how LMG is rushing their pace, most people already watched the video with an error in it.

 

As for Anker, Linus said they were dropping Anker and made a huge drama out of it, the fans took that and were saying Anker as a brand is bad, and I have to wonder how bad that hurt LMG with all the sponsors they have, it probably hurt Anker more by people refusing to buy Anker products.

 

Regarding working with brands, I think they could've dropped the Asus sponsorship, and bought their own Asus hardware for review, at the least it would show they aren't being biased towards Asus. Also continuing to work with brands means they still endorse the product, viewers will see he still uses Asus and buy stuff from Asus.

And for Intel, they've done sponsorships more with Intel, it seems like he's willing to do sponsor spots with who is willing to pay more.

Except framework kind of conflict of interest happens all the time in news media. And the proper and ethical way of doing it is to disclose it.

And LMG does disclose this often and they did take themselves out from reviewing most laptops. The volume of laptop review have clearly decreased and mostly is on shotcircuit where they did unboxing video only.

So Steve point here is just holier than thou point without any substance as there was no evidence of bias at all.

 

For the mouse issue, he only found out about it right before WAN show so there is not enough time to address it outside of WAN. Btw they are not just put a note under WAN show. I don't know where that came from. They clearly addressing it in the WAN, including addressing the mistake issue that they experiencing and looking for ways to address it with the community. Pwnage is also not a review but unboxing. Also in the video at one point the host (not linus) pull up the mouse and there is no visible mark that there is a sticker on it. So their feedback that there should be a marking to inform that is valid as a lot of user will have the same issue.

 

Regarding the asterix, it is an industry standard and almost all youtuber did that including other big youtuber but Steve conviniently forgot to mention that and convince you that reshoot is the normal thing to do, which is not.

 

The Anker issue is a big deal because Anker lied about EUFY issue and when they were called on it they lied even more and never admit their mistake. I dont think until now Anker have properly address this issue. As fir making it a big deal, how is it compared to Jay2cent making a video of cancelling ASUS? I am not sure if they even got any sponsorship from ASUS or just a free sample though.

 

I find it funny that you are mad about then not cancelling ASUS but mad at them for cancelling Anker even though the level of issue that Anker had with EUFY was way bigger and ASUS did address their mistake right away.

Linus decided to not cancel ASUS sponsorship because they already address the issue. And ASUS sponsorship was for LTX and they open a booth for LTX. That is not just not receiving free sample and buy their own. The level of sponsor ASUS give is not the same level as the one given to GN or J2C. Beside the level of mistake that EUFY/Anker did is magnificently bigger compared to an issue in one product that Asus have addressed.

 

 

[McCarthy]

11 minutes ago, Texbobcat said:

I'm in college
I'm a Electrical Engineer

Losing one week of funds isn't comparable to the damage he caused another business, and for how much they spend on the lab he can clearly fund to subsidize a week of uploads.

 

That copper block has zero chance to turn into a proper business. If you would have run a few, you would know that. There is basically zero demand at that price point, let alone with the issues at hand.

 

Look around on these YT channels and in this forum! Most are low or no income kiddos with no assets, trying to justify why everybody should save 50 bucks by buying AMD over NVIDIA. What makes you think that this market is good for 800 buck copper blocks?

 

If you are on an Electrical Engineering degree, tell me, what happens when copper oxidizes (in air), and what effect this will have in this case.

 

At this point, the damage done to LTT is far worse than whatever income Billet Labs may have lost due to a bad review on one questionable product.

[Cooldoe]

5 minutes ago, Texbobcat said:

I'm in college
I'm a Electrical Engineer

Losing one week of funds isn't comparable to the damage he caused another business, and for how much they spend on the lab he can clearly fund to subsidize a week of uploads.

So what do you want him to do?

He is already addressing the issue and even take a week of revenues and even lose out on some sponsor commitment because of it.

 

I agree the monetization was a bad but they already address that as well. The so call ads of lttstore that you mention is only one line from someone who is responsible for lttstore so he will mention it as he will mention that lttstore is his resposibilility anyway

[Cooldoe]

Just now, McCarthy said:

 

That copper block has zero chance to turn into a proper business. If you would have run a few, you would know that. There is basically zero demand at that price point, let alone with the issues at hand.

 

Look around on these YT channels and in this forum! Most are low or no income kiddos with no assets, trying to justify why everybody should save 50 bucks by buying AMD over NVIDIA. What makes you think that this market is good for 800 buck copper blocks?

 

If you are on an Electrical Engineering degree, tell me, what happens when copper oxidizes (in air), and what effect this will have in this case?

 

At this point, the damage done to LTT is far worse than whatever income Billet Labs may have lost due to a bad review on one questionable product.

I would argue that this controversy will have better effect on billet labs.

I would not be surprised if they are getting much more pre order now

[McCarthy]

4 minutes ago, Cooldoe said:

I would argue that this controversy will have better effect on billet labs.

I would not be surprised if they are getting much more pre order now

Indeed. They got all the exposure. That being said, based on my own experiences, that "business" will be done in 2 years.

[mikaelus]

31 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

 

GN created a snowball effect, that is INDEED much worse. Look at this thread alone... its full of blame and hate. Where I come from, the current situation is now a lose:lose constellation, because ya'll didn't even agree with him stepping back and promising changes.

 

For people like you, its all about drama and hate.

You don't seem to understand that many people have already noticed LTT's quality go down over time. It's just a culmination of a long build up which has erupted because of Linus' mistreatment of a small company and his inability to acknowledge his mistakes and poor behavior.

[mikaelus]

31 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

And gives up over a week of income for the entire company.

 

 

AFTER the backlash

[mikaelus]

15 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

 

That copper block has zero chance to turn into a proper business. If you would have run a few, you would know that. There is basically zero demand at that price point, let alone with the issues at hand.

I think you underestimate the enthusiast segment. It's like bitching about prices of GPUs and yet people still buy them. 

 

They know there isn't demand for the block in high quantities, that's why per unit price is so high, because they need to sell just 50 to make $40k back and develop other products.

 

They also do bespoke projects for customers, on demand. Can you begin to comprehend how much each of them must cost with custom soldering?

[McCarthy]

10 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

You don't seem to understand that many people have already noticed LTT's quality go down over time. It's just a culmination of a long build up which has erupted because of Linus' mistreatment of a small company and his inability to acknowledge his mistakes and poor behavior.

Yep, and people can unsub or stop watching.

 

Most LTT shorts have over 1 M views.

Most LTT videos have 1 to 2.5 M views.

 

If they would be so terrible, they wouldn't have so many views and subs.

 

A call from GN to Linus would have been proper. Viewers writing comments about lacking quality too. But putting a company with 120 employees at risk? Think about the families that rely on that income from LTT. Think about the tax revenue for their community and state. Think again.

 

The outcome of this fiasco doesn't make anything better.

[McCarthy]

2 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

I think you underestimate the enthusiast segment. It's like bitching about prices of GPUs and yet people still buy them. 

 

They know there isn't demand for the block in high quantities, that's why per unit price is so high, because they need to sell just 50 to make $40k back and develop other products.

 

They also do bespoke projects for customers, on demand. Can you begin to comprehend how much each of them must cost with custom soldering?

Simple. Do an image google search for "billet labs MonoBlock" and tell me how many of those proud owners posted a photo, anywhere. Feel free to search the text on forums as well. I didn't find ONE.

[mikaelus]

1 minute ago, McCarthy said:

Yep, and people can unsub or stop watching.

 

Most LTT shorts have over 1 M views.

Most LTT videos have over 1 to 2.5 M views.

 

If they would be so terrible, they wouldn't have so many views and subs.

 

A call from GN to Linus would have been proper. Viewers writing comments about lacking quality too. But putting a company with 120 employees at risk? Think about the families that rely on that income from LTT. Think about the tax revenue for their community and state. Think again.

 

The outcome of this fiasco doesn't make anything better.

On a subscriber base of over 15 million. That's one thing.

 

Second thing - I continue to watch LTT, even though I can't stand Linus for his incessant moaning about GPU prices while hawking overpriced gear, but I still like the entertaining vibe of the channel and many of the things it covers: like some janky, crazy builds or super expensive enterprise-grade hardware.

 

That doesn't mean I don't notice how crap they are with facts and figures or how often they have to correct their videos, or how poor Linus' attitude is sometimes.

 

You clearly don't understand the many reasons people follow a particular creator.

 

And I barely watch GN, despite the fact that Steve is largely right in this case, but he typically bores me to death.

 

I really loathe tribalism.

 

 

[mikaelus]

2 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

Simple. Do an image google search for "billet labs MonoBlock" and tell me how many of those proud owners posted a photo, anywhere. Feel free to search the text on forums as well. I didn't find ONE.

Oh noes, peepurs don't post their water blocks! Remind me again, how long did it take Linus to make A SCREWDRIVER?

[McCarthy]

1 minute ago, mikaelus said:

On a subscriber base of over 15 million. That's one thing.

 

Second thing - I continue to watch LTT, even though I can't stand Linus for his incessant moaning about GPU prices while hawking overpriced gear, but I still like the entertaining vibe of the channel and many of the things it covers: like some janky, crazy builds or super expensive enterprise-grade hardware.

 

That doesn't mean I don't notice how crap they are with facts and figures or how often they have to correct their videos, or how poor Linus' attitude is sometimes.

 

You clearly don't understand the many reasons people follow a particular creator.

 

And I barely watch GN, despite the fact that Steve is largely right in this case, but he typically bores me to death.

 

I really loathe tribalism.

 

 

Out of context now. My issue was the effect on the company, not how a single viewer feels about Linus and his channel.

 

When you read the comments on all platforms, they literally formed a hate-bandwagon against him. Meanwhile, most of those expressive trolls never got anything worthwhile started in their own lives.

[McCarthy]

3 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

Oh noes, peepurs don't post their water blocks! Remind me again, how long did it take Linus to make A SCREWDRIVER?

At least he didn't send samples for reviews that didn't work properly. That is the way to go.

[mikaelus]

Just now, McCarthy said:

At least he didn't send samples for reviews that didn't work properly. That is the way to go.

What? It was Linus who tried to mount the block on the wrong card. Billet even went as far as to send LTT the right card, but they lost it, before finding it days later and still haven't returned it. 

 

Do Linus' fans read anything about this whole drama?

 

[McCarthy]

1 minute ago, mikaelus said:

What? It was Linus who tried to mount the block on the wrong card. Billet even went as far as to send LTT the right card, but they lost it, before finding it days later and still haven't returned it. 

 

Do Linus' fans read anything about this whole drama?

 

Yes, and it would have still created issues with the right card.

 

Drama is indeed the keyword here, because that is the fuel wanted for nonstop trolling and hating.

[McCarthy]

2 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

What? It was Linus who tried to mount the block on the wrong card. Billet even went as far as to send LTT the right card, but they lost it, before finding it days later and still haven't returned it. 

 

Do Linus' fans read anything about this whole drama?

 

PS: 130 posts just on this topic? I see others that just joined with over 300. In what book is that rational? LTT doesn't owe YOU anything.

[MercuryRain]

1 hour ago, Ferazam said:

You guys have a parasocial relationship with the figure of Linus. It's as if Steve and Linus are viewed as "friends," and friends don't act that way; a friend would have called. Followed and amplified the childish way Linus deals with criticism, like someone was "attacking" a friend that you guys need to defend. 

 

Facing the reality that your parasocial buddy is not as perfect as you see in the videos is too hard, and the search for excuses starts. You guys don't really know him. 

 

Did you ever get outraged by the fact that a journalist didn't contact a 100-million-dollar company for comments at any moment in your life? We all know that is a no. 

 

Things were bad, and a lot of errors happened. There is no excuse. Being worry about courtesy is just a way to dismiss the problem.

 

The great news is that who made the mistakes and needs to deal with the errors is them not you guys. And It's not wrong to wish that they fix things and improve. Then just relax and wait. 

 

About billet labs, don't be naive; you are regurgitating a version of Linus' points and making it sound that LMG actictions wouldn't make any difference. 

Oh, don't get me wrong.  Linus did everything wrong here.  I know that.  I know he's not my friend.  I know he doesn't know or care about anything I say or do.

 

I am saying, from that standpoint, I would never buy anything from Billet Labs.  Like... ANYTHING.  Not just because their products are ridiculously overpriced, but because their business model is garbage.

I ultimately don't care between GN and LTT when it comes to content.  GN is a snoozefest.  But LTT also pisses me off a lot.  I'm an EMC Engineering Technician, which means I do everything they do at the labs on a daily basis and they drive me nuts.  

 

How they tested the BL block is simply wrong.  You test shit correctly to reach your conclusions.  I have to write reports to the FAA.  What Linus did there is simply inexcusable.  I am saying that BL still has a terrible business model and if this were any other situation we would all be roasting them because of it.  That's Linus' mistake for giving them any leg to stand on.

[mikaelus]

2 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

Out of context now. My issue was the effect on the company, not how a single viewer feels about Linus and his channel.

 The effect is yet to be seen but we already know it's going to cost them high six figures if not seven figures. They lost 12% of their subscribers to Floatplane, costing them ca. $300k per year. Reduction in pace of video production will cost them at least half a million dollars if they reduce by just one video per week on LTT's main channel.

 

Sponsors might be less eager to advertise with them, or at lower rates, and we are yet to see the impact on viewership when they restart publishing.

 

2 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

When you read the comments on all platforms, they literally formed a hate-bandwagon against him. Meanwhile, most of those expressive trolls never got anything worthwhile started in their own lives.

So, it means we should somehow admire a hypocritical egomaniac, who claims he's dedicated to accuracy and fighting big, bad corporations, while becoming a toxic CEO himself? 

 

As I said, I loathe tribalism.

 

Of course Linus built something impressive. But why should that give him a free pass from criticism exactly? Because some anonymous nobody worships him as a hero? Get a life.

[mikaelus]

3 minutes ago, CerberusLabrat said:

I am saying, from that standpoint, I would never buy anything from Billet Labs.  Like... ANYTHING.  Not just because their products are ridiculously overpriced, but because their business model is garbage.

And they're not looking for your money. They're craftsmen doing highly custom water cooling solutions for small builds in particular. 

 

Of course average whiner on LTT, who can't stop bitching about GPU prices, couldn't even dream of affording a custom monoblock.

[mikaelus]

7 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

Yes, and it would have still created issues with the right card.

On what basis are you saying that exactly?

[Cooldoe]

10 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Tim still represents LMG as a company, what he said was at the company, even though it wasn't as PR or in public I think it shouldn't have been said in a tour.

1.  Steve explained why he didn't contact Linus in the video and decided when the "trust me bro" controversy happened, Steve said he would treat LMG like any other company, he doesn't contact a company every time he makes a review, those that watched the GN videos on this, and GN's reviews show he is objective.

2.  How is Steve to blame for any of this? He didn't have to contact Linus and if he did Linus would've forced him to only talk about certain points, and I doubt the Billet labs thing would have came out at all. I'm glad it did as Billet labs got paid for the value of the product and Jayztwocents has mentioned on twitter/X he wants to review a Billet labs block.

3. It would've been nice if Steve had asked first, but why should other youtubers have to ask Linus for permission to point out mistakes they've been making for a long time now? Linus shifting the blame and complaining about ethics when they need to seriously work on their own ethics in reviews show their arrogance towards others on getting criticism.

4. LMG disclosing Framework about doesn't mean anything other than Linus essentially saying he's giving other laptops a fair review and the audience can only base that on trusting Linus. Steve is well known for providing good data driven benchmark reviews, again anyone that watches his videos knows that.

5. Steve has done videos on Asus and their issues with motherboards killing CPU's, IMO that doesn't show there is any negative bias against Asus. Reporting problems with a product isn't having a negative dispute with a company.

LMG/LTT has a clear bias towards Asus, which is against their policy of blacklisting companies that have done anti-consumer things.

 

It is because people aren't objectively criticizing GN, they're taking things out of context to throw the blame at GN, when all GN did was report on the issues that need addressing.

For Tim issue, as I mention Linus already take responsibility of Tim mistake and apologize and correcting the narative.

What more do you want? The jump from what Tim say to it is now Linus view is just bonker

 

1. Except he contact Newegg and Asus before he make video about them but not with Linus. And clearly contacting the other side does not stop him to publish his video. So why is it different i  this instances?

2. So he can properly disclose the issue for accuracy? The one thing that Steve talking about LMG? So he is not going to do what he criticize about LMG?

3. You are taking thing out of context here. The issue is not ask permission but to ask the other side of the story that he can publish both side of the story as the ethical and accurate way. Again using the standard that Steve set himself

4. You obviously only want to worship Steve on this point. The disclosure is the ethical way to do and it is standard in news network. LMG also already take a step back from laptop review. Most of the video on laptop is an unboxing not a proper review. The standard is different and it is mostly first experience kind of content

5. If there is a bias show the proof instead if just innuendo. The way steve showing the bias is similar on how fox news tell a story.

 

I am objectively criticizing it based on the standard Steve put LMG on but it seem to be the standard is only for LMG as GN will not adhere to the standard for the Video which is BS

[Cooldoe]

Just now, mikaelus said:

On what basis are you saying that exactly?

The issue is the same with any card is that the cost vs benefit would not be significant enough to justify the price.

That is the point that Linus tried to make albeit poorly

[MercuryRain]

4 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

And they're not looking for your money. They're craftsmen doing highly custom water cooling solutions for small builds in particular. 

 

Of course average whiner on LTT, who can't stop bitching about GPU prices, couldn't even dream of affording a custom monoblock.

Again, lets take a step back, take a breath, and look at this objectively:

They are people, with no discernable IP whatsoever - they have no patents, no trademarks, nothing.  They have no IP to be stolen.  Simple as that.  If somebody copied their waterblock they have no legal recourse.   None.  There is nothing, whatsoever, special about what they make.

 

They are also, by their own admission, selling stuff to make up the cost of the water block so that they can make a new prototype.  Despite...the fact that they initially told LMG they could keep the block?

So...you give your only real working prototype to someone, don't expect it back, have to sell the farm to make a new one.  And you're actively selling that product for $800?

Brother, that's not a business.  That's a scam.  You could do that on Etsy and you'd be 1-star'd through the floor.