Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[atxcyclist]

2 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Except over the years, I'm sure Steve has reached out.  Even the community has reached out, and still gotten the same marketing fluff that Linus keeps saying "We'll do better".  At a certain point you don't give them an opportunity.

 

 

Steve is caught-up in his own self-congratulation, he’s gotten a big head. He believes that he is the tech watchdog, and while he can make that claim when he’s consistent in his own process, he wasn’t here.

Bottom line: He has contacted every other entity he has flamed like this, some that have stolen potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars from customers in the tech space, and he won’t send even one email in this instance?
 

It’s actual hypocrisy, and I’m not convinced of his motives being purely objective.
 

 

[Amaninacity]

4 minutes ago, plane_ said:

Until they acknowledge the Madison situation and create a response without either: an unapolagetic tone or an ACTUAL shill for their products I have no interest in supporting them any further. I knew Linus would keep interpersonal relationships relatively under the covers, but no apology to Steve? Not even a MENTION from Colton or especially Linus/the new CEO about Madison...? Is this not just ridiculous to anyone else? They are doing the same stuff they criticize other people for while holding this holier than thou attitude.

That one has some serious possible legal exposure. I assume their lawyer told them not to mention it until they have completed a full investigation clearing them, or until they can reach a settlement with Madison.

 

as far as Steve, I suspect there is something much more personal happening behind the scenes. They’ve been shitting on each other in small ways for a while now. And, frankly, Steve handled this in a shitty way by not reaching out for comment. I wouldn’t apologize to him either. In fact I’d go one step further and say “Steve had valid criticisms a, b, and c but also fuck that guy.”

[Albal_156]

3 hours ago, RLP said:

Watched the "What do we do now?" video, and yikes was it bad. 

 

I've seen politician videos where the teleprompter was actually in frame sound more sincere. Your entire company failed at reading the room. This wasn't a situation where levity was, in any way, appropriate - much less by injecting it as means to mention for profit things like sponsors or the store. 

 

Sincerity, at its core, is not scripted. 

LMG has gotten so large that it unfortunately needs the PR management skills now Im afraid to say.

[AbsoluteWoo]

9 minutes ago, plane_ said:

Until they acknowledge the Madison situation and create a response without either: an unapolagetic tone or an ACTUAL shill for their products I have no interest in supporting them any further. I knew Linus would keep interpersonal relationships relatively under the covers, but no apology to Steve? Not even a MENTION from Colton or especially Linus/the new CEO about Madison...? Is this not just ridiculous to anyone else? They are doing the same stuff they criticize other people for while holding this holier than thou attitude.

You clearly have absolutely zero real world experience if you expect them to publicly acknowledge the Madison accusations.

 

And why would he need to apologise to Steve?

[throwawayManMode]

They said nothing about the conflicts of interest, right?

Noctua, Asus, Frame Laptops, etc...

[Hellreaver]

On 8/14/2023 at 2:25 PM, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

 

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

 

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

 

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip.  I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

 

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

 

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient. 

 

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

 

Thanks for reading this.

This is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. 

[Albal_156]

2 minutes ago, Amaninacity said:

That one has some serious possible legal exposure. I assume their lawyer told them not to mention it until they have completed a full investigation clearing them, or until they can reach a settlement with Madison.

 

as far as Steve, I suspect there is something much more personal happening behind the scenes. They’ve been shitting on each other in small ways for a while now. And, frankly, Steve handled this in a shitty way by not reaching out for comment. I wouldn’t apologize to him either. In fact I’d go one step further and say “Steve had valid criticisms a, b, and c but also fuck that guy.”

Steve should have reached out for comment about the Billet Labs situation and nothing more In my opinion. But thats not a hard and fast rule and he doesn't have to do it.

[LmnSour]

Ive been thinking about this for a while.  This isn't the first time someone called out LTT for ethics or accuracy and I've watching LTT make mistakes for quite a while now.  Why is Gamers Nexus, who defended Linus's integrity and accuracy before, now making this video?

 

Was whole thing an objective piece of journalism and positive feedback from one professional to another, for the benefit of the community?  Did we all end that video enlightened or did we end it thinking LTT = Scumbags?  Steve did released the video with no financial benefit to him and his channel, right?

 

Or were their other motives?

 

 

 

[Amaninacity]

8 minutes ago, Mahoney said:

Does LTT ever contact a company of a product they're just about to destroy? Does that makes sense? Some of you have been acting like 10 year old fanboys these past 2 days. Like grow up

They regularly mention in reviews that they got comment or clarification from the subject. But, more importantly, the context is different. Steve was not reviewing Linus. He was performing investigative journalism with serious non-public allegations. Ethically, a request for comment or an explanation for its absence is necessary.

 

The Billet labs thing was a fuckup, and a big one. I’m not denying that. Linus should have gotten clear comment from them, as well. However, Rwo wrongs don’t make a right. Steve fucked up.

[AbsoluteWoo]

13 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Except over the years, I'm sure Steve has reached out.  Even the community has reached out, and still gotten the same marketing fluff that Linus keeps saying "We'll do better".  At a certain point you don't give them an opportunity.

If Steve had reached out for comment he'd have mentioned it in his video. Linus has specifically stated Steve has not reached out.

[WallacEngineering]

1 minute ago, throwawayManMode said:

They said nothing about the conflicts of interest, right?

Noctua, Asus, Frame Laptops, etc...

Well those are partnerships and sponsors. Every tuber has them, of course they will show a bit of favoritism towards the products they literally co-branded with.

 

Its just basic common sense and unfortunately we just kinda have to deal with it. On the other hand they definitely need to take more time and be more careful with testing however those are unfortunately two completely separate issues.

[atxcyclist]

2 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

He didn't shiffle anything around, nor did he do anything wrong or different. In fact he was impartial to LMG. He didn't contact them first because plenty of others have already tried to bring the concerns to the company's attention and were flat-out ignored.

 

Also, Steve always calls a company who is f***ing up out in public, like he did with Asus and the whole AM5 MotherBoard thing recently. Hes treating LMG like any other company and thats called being impartial.

 

No matter how you look at it, GN made the right call with bringing it to the public's attention. There is no need nor any reason to put any of the blame here on Steve or GN.

 

LMG screwed up and has been screwing up for some time now. Get over it, nobody is perfect. They hurt their own reputation by allowing this to happen in the first place.

This is a 225 page thread and you’re telling me to ‘get over it you’re wrong’.

 

I don’t think GN went about it consistently, I’ve watched his other videos in the past and saw him making contact with these other people/companies before going live with a vide, so you didn’t convince me to change my stance on it.

[plane_]

5 minutes ago, Amaninacity said:

That one has some serious possible legal exposure. I assume their lawyer told them not to mention it until they have completed a full investigation clearing them, or until they can reach a settlement with Madison.

 

as far as Steve, I suspect there is something much more personal happening behind the scenes. They’ve been shitting on each other in small ways for a while now. And, frankly, Steve handled this in a shitty way by not reaching out for comment. I wouldn’t apologize to him either. In fact I’d go one step further and say “Steve had valid criticisms a, b, and c but also fuck that guy.”

Valid reply. I didn't think about the legal end of things, it's probably just slow moving with processes. When thinking of EVERYONE'S career at LTT, they should be careful and consult lawyers. Good reply.

[asjef]

I shared my opinion yesterday and took the step of unsubscribing from their YT channel to emphasize my point. While I don't believe that the recent response from LTT was perfect, it does come close to meeting my expectations. They admitted their responsibility, outlined a plan, and now it's important for them to follow through with that plan as they move forward.

 

I've chosen to resubscribe to their YouTube channel as a way of demonstrating my support for their response.

 

Addressing this situation perfectly was an imposable task, and their released statement is likely as good as it can get. I follow Linus for entertainment, and while I don't expect perfection, I hold them to a standard of integrity.

[Amaninacity]

3 minutes ago, Albal_156 said:

Steve should have reached out for comment about the Billet Labs situation and nothing more In my opinion. But thats not a hard and fast rule and he doesn't have to do it.

He should have. And he doesn’t have to. But if he doesn’t do it, it’s ethically dicey unless he has a good reason. In which case, he owes his audience an explanation for why.

[WallacEngineering]

1 minute ago, atxcyclist said:

This is a 225 page thread and you’re telling me to ‘get over it you’re wrong’.

 

I don’t think GN went about it consistently, I’ve watched his other videos in the past and saw him making contact with these other people/companies before going live with a vide, so you didn’t convince me to change my stance on it.

I mean take it as you will but its simply the truth. LMG even acknowledged that truth with their apology video and stopping video production.

 

Things are the way they are man, I didn't make the rules.

[atxcyclist]

2 minutes ago, LmnSour said:

Ive been thinking about this for a while.  This isn't the first time someone called out LTT for ethics or accuracy and I've watching LTT make mistakes for quite a while now.  Why is Gamers Nexus, who defended Linus's integrity and accuracy before, now making this video?

 

Was whole thing an objective piece of journalism and positive feedback from one professional to another, for the benefit of the community?  Did we all end that video enlightened or did we end it thinking LTT = Scumbags?  Steve did released the video with no financial benefit to him and his channel, right?

 

Or were their other motives?

 

Would Steve/Gamer’s Nexus have a vested interest, in taking-down a bigger company getting into testing, after spending a bunch of money on their own testing equipment?

 

Good question, and not an impossibility. Maybe he sees Labs as a threat to his own investment.

[Amaninacity]

3 minutes ago, plane_ said:

Valid reply. I didn't think about the legal end of things, it's probably just slow moving with processes. When thinking of EVERYONE'S career at LTT, they should be careful and consult lawyers. Good reply.

This is the least toxic response I have received to my nuanced views of what has happened here that I have received. Good reply!

[dynastes]

12 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Steve is caught-up in his own self-congratulation, he’s gotten a big head. He believes that he is the tech watchdog, and while he can make that claim when he’s consistent in his own process, he wasn’t here.

Bottom line: He has contacted every other entity he has flamed like this, some that have stolen potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars from customers in the tech space, and he won’t send even one email in this instance?
 

It’s actual hypocrisy, and I’m not convinced of his motives being purely objective.
 

 

Is it though? Everything that might have been said was public anyway. What is the point of outreach then? With companies like Asus things are quite a bit different, since they do not interact with their communities quite as directly and will likely not have put any statement out there, if one does not reach out.

 

 

@topic:

 

I just watched the video LMG put out on the main channel in response to the whole drama. I very much regret that this was not the initial reaction, because I feel that it was actually a pretty good one. Verbal commitments were made and the fact that video production has been paused and will continue at a slower pace afterwards, is actually a rather aggressive thing to do, since it will almost definitely hurt their bottom line further. I was surprised by this, but also am glad that they had the fortitude to do it still.

 

To be clear, it does not make Linus' initial reaction any better. In regards to communication with Billet we have the full picture now, but even so his pissy and overly emotional response did quite a bit of damage to his personal reputation and his company by extension. But at least people seem to have stepped in, including his wife and the new CEO. I am genuinely interested as to what can be improved in the coming weeks and months. They have quite a bit of corporate expertise under their roof at this point after all.

 

Anyway, handling was not perfect but the video has cooled my personal outrage quite a bit.

[plane_]

4 minutes ago, AbsoluteWoo said:

You clearly have absolutely zero real world experience if you expect them to publicly acknowledge the Madison accusations.

 

And why would he need to apologise to Steve?

So let me ask, is this the "independent tech journalism" they strived for? To act like every other corporation and ignore potential abuse in their workplace? 

 

I do have real world experience, and yes, I still expect them to. There is no justification for not acknowledging it. If consulting with lawyers and interal members, even settling and contacting Madison privately is necessary, so be it. But allow there to be an acknowledgement of "Our processes were reviewed, and we found-". 

 

You can try and belittle me by saying "Muh, you clearly have absolutely zero real world experience..." but all I see when you type garbage like this is "I must protect this corporation!!!" as the 400lb+ reddit junkie leaps to protect their oh so pure and victimized million dollar corporation.

[jordank195]

Can't help but notice GN has gained >60K subscribers after posting that video. https://socialblade.com/youtube/c/gamers_nexus/monthly (notice how he normally goes up by 10-20k a month)

 

Sure he disabled monetization, but you can't deny any there are any ulterior motives here...

[Biomancer81]

Like a lot fo people said on here, we all know that a lot of the criticism is justified.

 

That being said, Steve, and GN holding up their video on some sort of moralistic high ground is both just appauling and hypocritical.

 

As a direct competitor of LTT, it is a huge conflict of interest for him to say anything publically, especially while calling out Linus for his Framework investment. Acting as if demonitizong the one video is a sacrifice, in the long term, when the effects of what he said will likely increase his profits is the most atrocious use of misleading bull I have seen. Add to it that he didnt even ask LMG to comment, it becomes less journalistic and comes across completely self serving.

 

At least over the years I have seen Linus address every concern publically. Steve literally said during the video that while he was making process accusations against LTT that he wasnt going to discuss their own processes because the video wasnt about them.

 

Steve, additionally claimed he was being journalistic and inveatigative, but the video lacked any kind of objective nature. Steve was regularly injecting his opinions into the video. Competitors are allowed to advertise and make statements about eachother, bit not in the context of Journalism or Reporting news. You cannot be a source of fact if you have a vested interest in how the facts affect the landscape.

[atxcyclist]

4 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

I mean take it as you will but its simply the truth. LMG even acknowledged that truth with their apology video and stopping video production.

 

Things are the way they are man, I didn't make the rules.

I disagree with you, and I am not the only one that disagrees with you either. I’m simply reminding people of what Steve himself claimed were his standards in these instances, and pointing-out that he changed his process for this video.

[Touch My Hamm]

Watching the "apology" video. I only have quotes as 2023 apology videos are just common these days. They addressed the criticisms made and they are working to improve the workflow. Looking at the video it more appears it was a breakdown of the hectic upload schedule and growing pains of having a CEO as well as having Linus in every video. I do appreciate the bit of LTT humour in the video even though some kids will see it poorly. Overall a very well done video accepting the criticisms and addressing it for the public which is a bonus for everyone.

 

I hope they built into a better work culture and from this create better videos that are not only there for the entertainment value (random crazy hardware or the AMD 5K upgrades) but also more informative videos and reviews of actual products people will use. I would love to see more normal computer case unboxing even if its not a full review with testing. Bring back The lanboy case opening outside of NCIX on a public bench lol.

 

@LinusTech I hope you and your team dont get discouraged by Rabble-rousers and can go through the comments to find proper criticisms and conversations that will help LMG grow as a community.

 

I still stand by my initial statement that every company/group/etc can be criticized as long as it is meant to be constructive and open up a conversation. Maybe it was a kick in the pants that was needed to fully bring to light some pains other peers in the space have. I hope everything was done in good faith to help your team evolve and view internally what needs to be changes/adapted/improved upon. For someone who works in the IT space with a large company and  at times has to have these conversations they are never "fun" but they are needed. To me its a great place to really make great changes that not just peers in your sphere and community but LMG as well.

 

I hope fans on both sides can cool down a bit knowing they are trying to address what was said in good faith here with proper conversations.

[throwawayManMode]

Just now, jordank195 said:

Can't help but notice GN has gained >60K subscribers after posting that video. https://socialblade.com/youtube/c/gamers_nexus/monthly (notice how he normally goes up by 10-20k a month)

 

Sure he disabled monetization, but there's you can't deny any ulterior motives here...

Think what you want but it doesn't change all the issues happening with LMG