Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Neroon]

12 hours ago, ChrisVyse said:

then tell me, did you watch GN video and what are your thoughts on Linus trying to gaslight and doubling down while ignoring other obvious points? 

So I'm fanboying over Linus?

 

How am I doing that? Also I have watched both videos, and read all the reactions from Linus.

[DontBeSillyWrapYourWilly]

GN is more than right in this case.

 

Honestly i never watched LTT (and/or sub channels) for actual information before buying anything. LTT and Linus are very entertaining and fun to watch, but i never viewed them as trustworthy source to make educated purchases.

 

Until they started to actually do 'data' and that data , as it turns out , can be super far from reality. I think instead of 'talking back' Linus and LMG should simply work on improving their procedures.

 

As Steve from GN and many other people have noted ' making mistakes is okay , it is all about how you handle them' and in this case Linus and LMG as a proxy handled this as angsty teenagers. And i really dont see why they did that. Simply ' Yeah , we will look into this, thanks for info ' would have sufficed.

 

[EchoBravo498]

Personally I hope Steve does comment on the apology video. It would go a long way for helping the "he didn't reach out first crowd" move on. Once published, I'd love to have Steve look at some of their processes and new guidelines. He has shone a light where others have not.

[EchoBravo498]

3 minutes ago, Srius1 said:

ARE ALL THE CRY BABIES and perfect people who never make mistakes happy now? You guys now have stopped all videos and possibly affecting tens of jobs for what????  To satisfy 1 dude who hates the world and wants to watch it burn? You all are PATHETIC BAND WAGON FOLLOWERS and it makes me sick. You people are toxic and need to get a life and stop being parasocial “fans” 

Wow. Really like that caps lock ehh??

Pretty sure everyone at LMG is glad for this break and focus on process.

[EchoBravo498]

13 minutes ago, DakotaCx said:

I am surprised with the production stand down, it's a big step. But even that is a flash in the pan that may or may not yield lasting results.

Correct! This helps the people who are actually thinkers know they are taking this seriously. The pitchfork crowd just want people to burn... Which is terribly sad.

[mMontana]

5 minutes ago, EchoBravo498 said:

Personally I hope Steve does comment on the apology video.

I don't think that any GN people will leave any trace after that.

Eventually, they will check (when it will be convenient to them) the results of the repurpouse of processes of LMG.

If something will insistely show up, they will launch the call again.

 

Edit: @EchoBravo498 it was a possible move, now cannot be played "that easily" again.

[Aiken Drum]

23 minutes ago, Saeumii said:

are you referencing the whole "trust me bro" ordeal regarding the warranty situation?

No, I'm referencing the fact that Linus recognized he was reacting emotionally, but still chose to put his segment into the "What do we do now" video, completely ruining the efforts of all of the other people in the video.

[aaradorn]

13 minutes ago, Srius1 said:

ARE ALL THE CRY BABIES and perfect people who never make mistakes happy now? You guys now have stopped all videos and possibly affecting tens of jobs for what????  To satisfy 1 dude who hates the world and wants to watch it burn? You all are PATHETIC BAND WAGON FOLLOWERS and it makes me sick. You people are toxic and need to get a life and stop being parasocial “fans” 

Bro is schizo posting on main

[Saeumii]

9 minutes ago, EchoBravo498 said:

Personally I hope Steve does comment on the apology video. It would go a long way for helping the "he didn't reach out first crowd" move on. Once published, I'd love to have Steve look at some of their processes and new guidelines. He has shone a light where others have not.

i don't think gamer's nexus will comment again until they see actual progress. commenting again, from their side, would just look like reacting/responding rather than feedback/criticism, like they seem to have intended

[Saeumii]

1 minute ago, Aiken Drum said:

No, I'm referencing the fact that Linus recognized he was reacting emotionally, but still chose to put his segment into the "What do we do now" video, completely ruining the efforts of all of the other people in the video.

i think he kinda had to. he's the face of lmg, and the one personally responsible after his initial response. if he didn't get involved, it would've looked like he was hiding behind other people and leaving them to take the fire

[aaradorn]

7 minutes ago, mMontana said:

I don't think that any GN people will leave any trace after that.

Eventually, they will check (when it will be convenient to them) the results of the repurpouse of processes of LMG.

If something will insistely show up, they will launch the call again.

No need for them to comment either, they said what needed to be said, LTT needed this, and if they change for the better then GN will have accomplished their goals. They wanted LTT to do better, not to fail. And if they did this privately it would have never gotten anywhere, swept under the rug.

[jooroth18]

26 minutes ago, Starry_air said:

The latest video response seems to confirm what I believed to be the case - the cause of all this is, to put it very bluntly, incompetence. Which is bad and needed to be pointed out, which will hopefully lead to change. However, GN's video went far beyond presenting facts. It was heavily implying that malice was involved, that the situation with Billet Labs occurred because of an attitude of indifference, greed and disregard for contracts and promises. Unless one accuses LMG of fabricating emails, it is clear now that it was in fact a miscommunication and that they were willing to acknowledge it and make reparations. Again - it's obviously terrible that this situation happened and that they harmed a small team of enthusiastic and skilled entrepreneurs. But it was nowhere near as "duchy" as people immediately assumed - which is not surprising given the tone of GN's piece. I maintain my claim that it was not exemplary journalism. In my opinion, it was tabloid journalism. It should have been half the length. They should have reached out for comment, included LTT's account of how the miscommunication occurred, refrain from implying the part was sold for profit, and generally not mix up hard evidence of neglect and incompetence (the factual errors) with statement that implied malicious intent. If incompetence can explain something, one shouldn't attribute it to malice. I wish more people, including journalists, realized that it is, by and large, a good maxim to live by. I don't want to imply that what prompted them to do this was a desire to thwart an emerging competitor, as it was most likely just the result of strong emotions. Ultimately, it's still good that they made the piece and pointed many of LMG's shortcomings out. Good for viewers, for consumers. It's just that the tone was not right.

 

 

 

In all my responses, i never saw it as a malicious intent. Many people have, but as i have been reading this forum for several hours now, there are also many who also never saw it as malice. 

 

 

Ive been following linus for a long time, and as ive known, he is an emotionally driven person. What i saw from the first post is a guy who is letting his emotions get past him.

[Matthew87]

TL;DR: Each community should hold accountable the creator (or multiple creators) they want to watch, to make sure that said creator (creators) produces factful and accurate content.

 

18 hours ago, Legitsu said:

That people can't understand the sheer arrogance of what Steve and gamer Nexus are doing, it boggles the mind let me phrase it to you this way. The arrogance of assuming that you are the sole person on the entire internet, responsible for holding others accountable for things you think they did wrong while simultaneously benefiting from posting those things

 

 

That's not a conflict of interest? where Steve's journalistic principles I don't see them he can demonetize the video all he wants. He's still going to profit from a massive bump and subscriber and comment and views which is going to affect his channel ranking which is going to affect his bottom line. So don't hand us any crap about demonetizing the video and how it's for the greater good ad nauseam

17 hours ago, perryckd said:

steve runs a much smaller organization, his motive is to do hit and run job on bigger boys because they dont response as fast. this hit job took steve 6 months of planning, goes to show his scummy ways.

16 hours ago, harls said:

The first video he called out the mistakes on reviews and the Billet labs.  He could have possibly gotten some resolution on some of this had he contacted LMG.  The second video he flat out said he does't need to contact LMG because he knows they are wrong.  So he does not care if they have any evidence to the contrary. 

 

Let's take a different (more extreme) example: newspaper A prints lies reported as facts. Newspaper B prints an article reporting that newspaper A prints lies, shows examples of them, and presents proper facts.

 

Does newspaper B benefits from it? Of course!

Is newspaper B required to reach out to newspaper A for comment? Not really.

Should newspaper B be forbidden from publishing their text if they benefit from it? Absolutely not.

 

First of all, if somebody is a news outlet, then if they are doing their job correctly they will benefit from it regardless of what they will report. The Opposite will also happen: doing a poor job, will result in people not wanting to spend their time/money on content produced by that news outlet.

 

The same happens here - maybe this situation is a little bit less black and white.

 

So you are saying that Gamers Nexus shot first? But did they? Here is a timeline that lead to this whole thing (dates are correct for European timezone):

 

Quote

 

Dawn of Times - LTT and GN have more or less friendly relationship. LTT takes an infotainment approach to the content, while GN focuses on components related to PC performance (CPU, GPU, cases, cooling) and presents hard performance data.

 

14th of June 2022 - @LinusTech announced the creation of Labs. (1) It will be a testing facility under LMG umbrella with a focus on accurate testing of various items. It makes LMG expand into the territory of GN. Relationship changes from friendly to friendly competition type of relationship.

 

6th of August 2022 - @LinusTech and @Slick discussed backpack warranty on the WAN Show. (2) Linus presents a "hot take", that having (or not) a written warranty doesn't matter as he will always try to "make it right" if there is an issue with products LMG is selling.

 

13th of August 2022 - GN reported about LTT Backpack warranty controversy. (3)

 

18th of August 2022 - LTT introduces Limited Lifetime Warranty for LTT backpack (4)

 

25th of August 2022 - GN announced changes in the reporting policy of LMG actions, as it becomes also a manufacturer of products they are selling on LTT Store and as a company is bigger than some tech-related companies GN already reports about. (5)

 

24th of March 2023 - @LinusTech reports that Steve from GN was the first one who managed to reach out to Linus regarding LTT YouTube channel hack. (6) Still a friendly competition type of relationship.

 

29th of July 2023 - Tim states that the difference between Labs and Hardware Unboxed/Gamers Nexus is due to the ability of Labs to retest everything every time new video is being prepared. (7)

 

5th of August 2023 - @LinusTech apologizes for the wording used by Tim. (8)

 

 

The last two videos are probably the reason why Steve decided to create and post his video. From my experience working in small and big companies, if an employee says something negative (and in this case, not entirely truthful) about competition - those kinds of statements come from upper management first and then are repeated by low-level employees.

Also instead of (first privately then publicly) apologizing to Hardware Unboxed and Gamers Nexus, as it shouldn't be LMG's opinion, Linus decided to apologize for incorrect wording (!!!) and that Tim isn't a PR person. If he isn't a PR person then why was giving an office tour and statements about testing practices of other companies?

Linus decided to be a competitor to Gamers Nexus. He wanted friendly competition, to elevate the quality of tech reporting. Seems like something went wrong along the way.

 

 

1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FaFMHqpKGY - The Future of this Channel - LTT Labs Building Tour

2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbjWRvzL-o0&t=4240s - Intel Takes The L - WAN Show August 5, 2022

3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdxVtAiYeL0&t=95s - HW News - LTT vs. GN Warranty Beliefs, Intel A750 GPU Benchmarks, i9-13900 Delid

4) https://linustechtips.com/topic/1450262-discussion-on-the-ltt-backpack-warranty/ - Linus Tech Tips forum - Discussion on the LTT Backpack Warranty

5) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsX3tUA-wJk&t=70s - HW News - Important GN / LTT Changes, GPU Price Drops, Intel Arc GPU Availability

6) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGXaAWbzl5A&t=466s - My Channel Was Deleted Last Night

7) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybR3VAvBkXY&t=519s - LINUS TECH TIPS - Studio and Labs Tour! | LTX 2023: Day 1

8) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnIeknursww&t=8400s - Pretending I Endorse Your Product Is Fraud - WAN Show August 4, 2023

[Aiken Drum]

3 minutes ago, Saeumii said:

i think he kinda had to. he's the face of lmg, and the one personally responsible after his initial response. if he didn't get involved, it would've looked like he was hiding behind other people and leaving them to take the fire

In that case, he should have taken the realization that he was still being emotional as a signal to re-shoot his part from scratch with a better attempt at humility.

 

The realization step is useless if it doesn't lead to the next step.

[jooroth18]

2 minutes ago, Saeumii said:

i don't think gamer's nexus will comment again until they see actual progress. commenting again, from their side, would just look like reacting/responding rather than feedback/criticism, like they seem to have intended

Your probably right. From what i remember in previous situations, they will probably mention it in the next HW News, but leave it at that.

[mMontana]

3 minutes ago, Aiken Drum said:

No, I'm referencing the fact that Linus recognized he was reacting emotionally, but still chose to put his segment into the "What do we do now" video, completely ruining the efforts of all of the other people in the video.

Linus was the one who screwed up into this topic, reccomendede post for details.

He had to be there. Screwed again, that's fair, but he could not avoid the video presence.

[aaradorn]

2 minutes ago, Matthew87 said:

TL;DR: Each community should hold accountable the creator (or multiple creators) they want to watch, to make sure that said creator (creators) produces factful and accurate content.

 

 

Let's take a different (more extreme) example: newspaper A prints lies reported as facts. Newspaper B prints an article reporting that newspaper A prints lies, shows examples of them, and presents proper facts.

 

Does newspaper B benefits from it? Of course!

Is newspaper B required to reach out to newspaper A for comment? Not really.

Should newspaper B be forbidden from publishing their text if they benefit from it? Absolutely not.

 

First of all, if somebody is a news outlet, then if they are doing their job correctly they will benefit from it regardless of what they will report. The Opposite will also happen: doing a poor job, will result in people not wanting to spend their time/money on content produced by that news outlet.

 

The same happens here - maybe this situation is a little bit less black and white.

 

So you are saying that Gamers Nexus shot first? But did they? Here is a timeline that lead to this whole thing (dates are correct for European timezone):

 

 

The last two videos are probably the reason why Steve decided to create and post his video. From my experience working in small and big companies, if an employee says something negative (and in this case, not entirely truthful) about competition - those kinds of statements come from upper management first and then are repeated by low-level employees.

Also instead of (first privately then publicly) apologizing to Hardware Unboxed and Gamers Nexus, as it shouldn't be LMG's opinion, Linus decided to apologize for incorrect wording (!!!) and that Tim isn't a PR person. If he isn't a PR person then why was giving an office tour and statements about testing practices of other companies?

 

 

1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FaFMHqpKGY - The Future of this Channel - LTT Labs Building Tour

2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbjWRvzL-o0&t=4240s - Intel Takes The L - WAN Show August 5, 2022

3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdxVtAiYeL0&t=95s - HW News - LTT vs. GN Warranty Beliefs, Intel A750 GPU Benchmarks, i9-13900 Delid

4) https://linustechtips.com/topic/1450262-discussion-on-the-ltt-backpack-warranty/ - Linus Tech Tips forum - Discussion on the LTT Backpack Warranty

5) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsX3tUA-wJk&t=70s - HW News - Important GN / LTT Changes, GPU Price Drops, Intel Arc GPU Availability

6) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGXaAWbzl5A&t=466s - My Channel Was Deleted Last Night

7) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybR3VAvBkXY&t=519s - LINUS TECH TIPS - Studio and Labs Tour! | LTX 2023: Day 1

8) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnIeknursww&t=8400s - Pretending I Endorse Your Product Is Fraud - WAN Show August 4, 2023

Very informative, criticism is not an attack, blindly defending LTT for posting inaccurate information is not a good look and makes people look like a fool. People are/ were attacking GN as if they themselves kidnapped their dog.

[jooroth18]

6 minutes ago, Aiken Drum said:

No, I'm referencing the fact that Linus recognized he was reacting emotionally, but still chose to put his segment into the "What do we do now" video, completely ruining the efforts of all of the other people in the video.

I think he had to show up and say something. People would start questioning if he was going away or not.

[mMontana]

I mean...

At the next hit, GN should be payed from LTT as advisor. For real.

[Aiken Drum]

3 minutes ago, mMontana said:

Linus was the one who screwed up into this topic, reccomendede post for details.

He had to be there. Screwed again, that's fair, but he could not avoid the video presence.

I guess I should have said, "Still chose to put hjs segment into the video, as-is". Sure, it's important for him to respond, but if he's just doing more of the same, what use is it?

[Saeumii]

7 minutes ago, Aiken Drum said:

In that case, he should have taken the realization that he was still being emotional as a signal to re-shoot his part from scratch with a better attempt at humility.

 

The realization step is useless if it doesn't lead to the next step.

that doesn't guarantee his reshoot will be any less emotional, and for a situation as volatile as this, you don't have infinite time for reshoots. honestly it was probably his acknowledgement that he tends to be emotional that led to the entire leadership team being present rather than just him

[mMontana]

1 minute ago, Aiken Drum said:

but if he's just doing more of the same, what use is it?

For short: audience want that man on videos.

[stflames01]

25 minutes ago, Srius1 said:

ARE ALL THE CRY BABIES and perfect people who never make mistakes happy now? You guys now have stopped all videos and possibly affecting tens of jobs for what????  To satisfy 1 dude who hates the world and wants to watch it burn? You all are PATHETIC BAND WAGON FOLLOWERS and it makes me sick. You people are toxic and need to get a life and stop being parasocial “fans” 

Its sad but a step back to reevaluate and eventually bring us better videos is always good. Like you, I will also really miss the videos. I hope they come back stronger. If anything, I hope it charges them and excites them in knowing, hey, they are the GOAT and so everyone will try to take them down.

[1982 Original]

I’m sure Steve from GN won’t respond again. They said they wouldn’t. It will show their true colors if they don’t. i.e. only report on the bad responses, but not the proper one. While I 100% agree with what Steve brought to light, it has always seemed disingenuous coming from a competitor. It’s like Coke doing a take-down of Pepsi. This goes for the warranty complaint in the past and the current issues. 
 

The newest response addressed every issue GN brought up. I’m sure it won’t be enough for Steve. GN has grown their audience off of their hit pieces. Look through their channel, they are the highest viewed videos. Even if this video isn’t monetized, it still brought views and subscribers to the channel. And criticizing Linus is like rocket fuel for their channel. 
 

In essence, the criticisms were valid of course, but let’s not pretend Steve doesn’t have a vested interest in making them. 

[IseeFractals]

52 minutes ago, Ottoman420 said:

This hit me close to home. As a kid trying to play my daddys Gibson SG. I tried for a few months but boy that guitar didnt deserve my chubby non dexterous hands.

 

Now its a decoration peice.

lol, sorry. I tried to learn for about a year when i was about 14 but i had Linus sized hands, so it was just mechanically difficult and i got frustrated. Still regret not sticking with it 25 years later.