Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[XtraLarge]

Many of us watch & enjoy both channels, even after all of this. While the criticisms are valid, I actually like LTT referencing "growing pains" -- Linus & his team aren't perfect, but it doesn't appear like they have bad intentions. Miscommunication & oversight is certainly a thing we observe all the time, from every angle. Regarding the part with Jake favoring Asus, I can see what he meant -- he was basically saying Asus "in general" with their large market share, consists of high(er) quality components compared to a knockoff brand. Saying it is good simply for being Asus may sound a bit "unprofessional", but certainly a forgivable (in the moment) statement. I am simply just looking @ all this on a large scale, from all sides. A lot of the criticism regarding Linus himself could be narrowed down to being so overwhelmed with business, not having the time to think of all the context & every outcome -- for example: "not spending an extra $500" in regards to the water block testing -- I think what he really meant is that he doesn't know how to resolve the situation with the current flow, so he made a quick statement that doesn't actually pertain to the situation or his train of thought -- maybe he doesn't even realize how overwhelmed everyone really is? It is only logical Linus misspoken in the moment. I am sure he hasn't even had time to arrange his thoughts. Give it time.  To the people spreading hateful comments: such reaction(s) = blowing things way out of proportion! It's a tech channel, not a government running a country.

[Mr. Rabbit]

4 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Some people have no takes except reddit hot-takes, unfortunately. At least most of the longer-time posters here have displayed valid and constructive criticism in the situation, it's clear who the reddit brigade is.

Linus was already Satan incarnate in many subreddits.
Anytime he was mentioned in PCMR, Hardware, or Technology, you'd think he was killing babies and personally changing the Youtube algorithm to only work with clickbait.

 

The truth is, they have been failing hard, and it's their fault.
There is something rotten there, and I do believe Linus himself knows it, else he wouldn't have hired a new CEO to replace himself.

But at the same time, he can't keep his mouth quiet, and just had to rush here to do a shitty Linus response (even if I agree with Steve being a dick for not contacting them, when he contacts every company when he does a video like this)

 

He needs to sit down, think hard about how to handle this, and take feedback, before coming back with a sincere apology video, with the plans LMG is going to take to fix this mess they got themselves into.
Being your cool "youtube bro" doesn't cut it when you are the owner of a huge company with 100+ employees.

Was he responsible for the Billet prototype mishap? No, someone fucked up many times, from the video preparation, to the auction.
But he was the CEO at the time, so he is responsible for fixing these problems.
And if the new CEO is the fix, then they will need time to show the improvements, and they need the apology video explaining their side of the story, and the steps being taken to avoid them in the future.

 

As for Steve, the video was not wrong (and I am grateful for him doing it and pointing these problems so publicly, as LMG has been needing a swift kick on the butt for a few months), but I still think he was a 2 faced c*nt, taking this opportunity to dunk on a competitor, without trying to even get their official comment at the time, while crying about morality and ethics.
 

Giving a "we did not do it because we knew the answer" is no excuse, precisely because the issue with Billet was still in development, and he could've gotten an answer that drastically changed the way the issue was taken by the community, seeing as LMG had 1 business day to handle the issue since noticing the error and contacting Billet.

 

Pretending Steve handled the issue with anything in mind other than opportunism to discredit a direct competitor, is being naive.

 

And @LinusTech, ffs, you were better in the past, so do better in the future. Stop being a know-it-all asshole, and start listening to the community when it says that yeah, you have fucked up. Hard. And for too long.
Long are the days of unboxing an GTX570 Twin Frozr II in a parking lot, you wanted to be a big professional company, now it's time to act like it.

[aka473]

3 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Jeez. Linus isn't a mafia gangster who'd organize a hit in Steve(yet). They should've asked them for comment. It is a standard practice and yes, target parties often pre empt announcement, but that is just a part and parcel of when you run such stories.

They don't have to ask for comment if asking for comment from the target of the piece will have ANY impact on the story at large. The actions by Linus Media Group taken post video release already prove out that it was the correct decision. 

[UnwindingThree8]

On 8/14/2023 at 10:34 PM, Cavalry Canuck said:

That’s the other thing that has me bothered by this video. He’s talking about when LTT was having issues with a chip review, and basically says they should have just published without verifying with AMD. Different perspectives are important, publish what you got. But then the rest of the video he talks about how what they got is wrong because it doesn’t line up with everyone else’s data. I’d say pick a lane, but the context is that you have to be willing to stand behind the data if the data is accurate. He didn’t provide that context, so it sounded like a hypocritical point.

 

However, if he’s so adamant about standing behind your own data, and that variations in opinions are good, why is he tip-toeing around Linus at all? I would now say pick a lane, but evidently he has.

No no no, he said publish it AFTER amd confirmed those numbers are withing spec. Big DIF. If you trust your methodology and have confirmation of amd that those numbers look ok then you must publish. That's what Steve said. 

[throwawayManMode]

@Slick I realize you probably won't read all of the replies here and probably won't feel comfortable posting in this angry mob thread but if you see this message - please try to talk some sense into @LinusTech. This is serious.

[plume]

18 minutes ago, Wintyr said:

yup Gamers nexus has ad weeks to pile on the evidence data to attack LMG has had 24 hours

No one forced him to publish his rants within the first 24hr.  He could have said he needs more time for a proper answer and I think the community would have respected that. His dumpster fire of an answer that deflect and gaslit is why a lot of people here lost confidence in him, it's why the second GN video was published and it's why a lot of people are having more doubt about if LMG can change or not (I think they can btw). 

[serpenta]

23 hours ago, LinusTech said:

if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it

What a childish disclaimer of responsibility. Imagine a doctor saying this to your face after a medical error kills your spouse or reading this as the conclusion of the Rogers Commision report after the inquiry into Space Shuttle Challenger disaster. Wow. There are people doing infinitely more difficult things in the world, some of them are in your community, but they don't whine about it. When they fuck up, they pull up their pants and say "I fucked up, here's how I'm going to prevent it in the future." Get some perspective, man.

[Levent]

1 minute ago, LinuxGeek18 said:

I spy a Watch Wes Work video in your recommendations. That's pretty cool.

Yeah his videos are awesome. Great taste sir!

[jeo]

2 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Yeah, it's already done that a few times.

 

Here's the thing that I find really really suspicious. I can reply to this thread, and by the time I finish a two sentence reply. TWO MORE PAGES appear. I've never seen this particular forum, let alone a single thread this busy before.

 

The last reply in the thread, 200 posts were made by the time I finished writing it. At this point if you write more than two sentences in this thread, nobody can read it because the thread is growing faster than people's ability to read it.

It is interesting, it also seems like a fair number of the people commenting have a limited history of posting.

I wonder if we are seeing someone use chatgpt to magnify their presence

[WolframaticAlpha]

Just now, aka473 said:

The actions by Linus Media Group taken post video release already prove out that it was the correct decision. 

Please educate me in how these actions prove what you say?

[jitteryzeitgeist]

1 minute ago, PandaSasquatch said:

You mean this?

Him saying LMG aka "we," greed to compensate Billet Labs, does not imply that Billet Labs had agreed to it, only that they were already willing and planning to make it right. In case this needs clarification, Billet Labs had, in-fact,  already given LMG an estimate of the value of the block.

They did not.

 

They told them the individual thing costs X and needs to be returned.  HE then said "We'll compensate you", but only after the GN video got released, and they have yet to take him up on that.

 

No agreement has been made.  I'm hoping Billet sues the fuck out of LTT and Linus for this incredible breach in trust and good practice.

[aka473]

7 minutes ago, whatsEJstandfor said:

It's been pointed out already, but Steve teed you up, PR-wise, and you could have just admitted to mistakes, apologized, and laid out steps LMG would take to mitigate errors in the future. Somehow, you whiffed it so hard, your bat slipped out of your hands and hit a toddler in the stands.

 

The company you're building, with LTT Labs, can't afford to have these kinds of credibility issues. You can't both be known for "lol we just like being janky tech guys" and "we want to be the go-to for accurate tech information". This criticism should have been extremely welcome and eye-opening. Instead, you took it as a personal attack.

 

You can still turn it around, but you're now in a far deeper hole than you started. I've been watching religiously since the NCIX days and I've been a pretty avid defender during the various controversies, but I've got nothing for this one. I'm not mad; I'm just disappointed. And, if I'm honest, I actually am a little mad.

I like this post. And I want you to know that this is a good post, and I think you are a good person for making it.

[RevengeofProfKatz]

57 minutes ago, harls said:

From the point LMG notified Billet there was an issue to the GN video was one business day.  We have seen nothing that tells us they were aware of the mistake prior to that.  According to Billet they have agreed to a price,  Linus tracked down and offered to get the card back for billet but they decided they would sooner have the agreed upon price.  We are currently at most 4 business days into the fiasco since they were notified it was sold.  Yes there were major fuck ups by LMG and they need to get their shit fixed.  There is no evidence of lying between LMG and Billet.

No, that was not how the timeline or events went, per Billet themselves, and LMG has been fully aware all this time that they messed up and sold the prototype. LMG were the ones to notify Billet that they sold it. And according to Billet, no price has/had been agreed on as of today for compensation. They literally stated this to GN right before the second video GN did today. Per Billet Labs to GamersNexus:

Quote

No, absolutely not. No, no, no. The only mention of any money to do with the prototype was our response to them [after they said] they'd auctioned it, and we basically said, you know, that was a $[REDACTED] prototype. I said: 'do you plan to reimburse us for this?' And we heard nothing. We didn't get a response until your video (referring to GN's first video).

This literally means Linus/LMG did all this damage in his preview with his flawed testing nonsense, then sold the thing at a silent auction after agreeing to send it back, after which made a nonchalant statement about selling it off to Billet, and then proceeded to blow Billet off when confronted about making it right. Linus did not reach out again until Steve/GN posted their cover story on this mess.

June 30th, Linus agreed to send the prototype water block back, along with the 3090 Ti back to Billet if required (which it was).
July 6th, Linus again stated their intention to send prototype and card back.
July 12th, Linus stated it would be sent out the following week.
July 30th, over two weeks later after Linus provided a shipping time frame to return the property, Linus sold said property/ a prototype/ that did not belong to him.
Early August 10th Linus stated: "So, there was a communication mishap and we ended up auctioning off the Monoblock in a silent auction for charity at LTX. The good news, is that it isn't just sitting on a shelf"
August 14th Linus lied in a post on this thread about having discussions with Billet and having come to an agreement for compensation, when in actuality, Linus had ghosted Billet after Billet had wanted to know how Linus planned to fix the problem in early August.
August 14th, after GN posted their story, is the first time Linus reached out after ghosting Billet. Billet stated they have not replied back yet to Linus's email sent to them today concerning this.

 

[Monolithic]

6 minutes ago, Tollermine said:

 

The situation with Billet Labs is more concerning. However, I wouldn't immediately accuse anyone of lying until someone, perhaps Linus, clarifies who authored specific emails. It's common in larger companies for emails to be sent on behalf of the CEO by other staff members. We can't be certain about when and what information Linus personally received.

 

Regardless, this situation is either an attempt to manipulate the community's perception or a clear failure of management.

 

 

 

Regardless of who sent what, it is a deal big enough for the person in charge to make sure whomever he put in charge of it, followed through, ESPECIALLY before making a public statement about it.

 

If he didn't then he is just making Steve's other points for him that Linus doesn't care enough to be accurate.

[Corey Clak]

Calm down mun, acting like Linus is the reincarnation of Hitler. 

The reason he's been vague in his response is due to this reason. People misinterpreted it, and then start assuming X means Y but in reality, it's nothing like Y.

Calm down, and give LMG and @LinusTech to respond properly. Sure mistakes have been made. But we don't know the full picture. 

GN idk why, (I watch both LMG and GN, and I like both of their content) but he has missed out on certain pieces of crucial information and misinterpreted and assumed from a simple form post reply of @LinusTech. And being impartial, they are known (GN) for this type of drama.  

 

 

[BlackSmokeDMax]

Just now, jitteryzeitgeist said:

They did not.

 

They told them the individual thing costs X and needs to be returned.  HE then said "We'll compensate you", but only after the GN video got released, and they have yet to take him up on that.

 

No agreement has been made.  I'm hoping Billet sues the fuck out of LTT and Linus for this incredible breach in trust and good practice.

 

At the time no agreement had been made. Earlier this afternoon that did change, per a reddit post from Billet.

[BigToeGhost]

7 minutes ago, Abraxaz said:

You have to realise how many people Linus has working under him.

 

Do you tell the CEO every time you fuck up?

If I had access to the CEO yes.

[jitteryzeitgeist]

1 minute ago, jeo said:

It is interesting, it also seems like a fair number of the people commenting have a limited history of posting.

I wonder if we are seeing someone use chatgpt to magnify their presence

No, buddy.

 

It's because Linus is a huge presence and he fucked up really badly.

[rav007]

23 hours ago, LinusTech said:

 Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

This is the bit I didn't like in the response. "We wanted no one to buy it..." I have consumed LMG and LTT content for over a decade but I do not think you get to play god. It isn't your choice if someone buys it or not. Nor is it your choice to drive Billet Labs into a different "marketable" product. The onus of making a marketable product is on them, not you.

 

In general I have noticed some of the errors Steve from GN picked up on, but I let it slide when LMG positioned itself away from the data space. Now your emphasis with labs is on data and factual representation, the scrutiny is different. Old LMG content doesn't get a free pass. In the industry I work in (highly regulated data industry) simple errors like these get people fired because it irreversibly destroys reputations. You have built a positive reputation for over a decade on varied entertaining content, if this pivot into data-driven insights is premature I think the whole brand rep could slip away before you even realise it. I read the whole response as almost politicking the situation of why the data driven approach wasnt robust and to be honest I don't buy it. You have hired seasoned pros and clearly have the contacts and resources to fill the gaps and ensure robust approaches to data driven insights. Failing at quality control on videos, in my experience, correlates highly with failures in robust quality control procedures across a business. I have rarely posted in this forum and when I often disagree with your points I at least feel I can respect you have a set of principles you follow and are fairly consistent with them. But thats when it is opinion content, not data content. We are not god in the data driven space, data as a domain is god, its rules and procedures and quality and context allow us to tell its story. It doesn't give a shit about our bias.

 

I hope LMG can recover from this in the correct way and not just go about isolating and focusing on the people who show unwavering support. 

[PandaSquawk]

4 minutes ago, jooroth18 said:

Linus said he agreed with billet for compensation, when billet didnt even reply to his email asking for an agreement yet at the time of posting. Linus sent the email asking for agreement after the post was made also.

That is not what happened. Why not use the quote from Linus directly?

Quote

AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype).

He said that "we" (meaning LMG) agreed to to compensate them, not that Billet Labs had a formal agreement with LMG. Billet Labs had already sent an email to LMG that included an estimate of it's value.

[FadedSpark]

1 minute ago, jeo said:

It is interesting, it also seems like a fair number of the people commenting have a limited history of posting.

I wonder if we are seeing someone use chatgpt to magnify their presence

Nah I'm just bored at work.

[GilmourD]

1 minute ago, jeo said:

It is interesting, it also seems like a fair number of the people commenting have a limited history of posting.

I wonder if we are seeing someone use chatgpt to magnify their presence

Honestly it's probably brigading from Reddit, which itself has become the incel dumpster fire that Twitter was pre-Musk after Reddit's policies drove off a good deal of good users. 

[Shipohoy]

I've been a big fan of LTT since Scrap Wars days. But this coming just after the expo and the GN posts and evidence is overwhelming. It's unfortunate, but it makes anything he says suspect at the moment because of his ethics and the unpolitic nature of the response. I believe he should remember that without the fans on YouTube, there will be no fews and no change of any kind. A big jump from here means there won't be much left by the end.

[aka473]

1 minute ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Please educate me in how these actions prove what you say?

Upon the release of the video, LMG contacted Billet Labs, when they had already gone silent on them for a week. Not only that, but before even waiting for a response from them, Linus goes and posts that they, being LMG and Billet Labs, have already agreed to compensation when this was never the case. These actions show either the gross negligence or down right malicious behavior occuring at LMG in response to this story. If they had been asked to comment, they would have tried to sweep the billet labs story under the rug before GN published the video.

[Abraxaz]

1 minute ago, BigToeGhost said:

If I had access to the CEO yes.

Are you sixteen???

 

The CEO doesn't get told about everything that's what his managers are for...

 

Jesus could you imagine the number of emails a CEO would get every day