Being an Early Adopter SUCKS

[Plouffe]

Dell-Alienware JUST launched the AW3423DW earlier this year, so how could the $200-cheaper DWF refresh possibly be any different? We did some digging to find out, and you might be surprised by how much of a difference a few months can make when working with a new technology.

 

Buy an Alienware AW3423DW: https://lmg.gg/A3q28

 

Buy an Alienware AW3423DWF: https://lmg.gg/4tQLc

 

Purchases made through some store links may provide some compensation to Linus Media Group.

 

 

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

Sign me up when they bring a 27-32 inch 1440p QDOLED with 144hz+ for less than $700.

[CaptainFluffy]

Just got my DWF a few days ago and I'm loving it, especially because my old monitor (BenQ XL2720Z) is pushing 10 years old at this point.

 

Before this thing launched I heard about how the DW model didn't have user upgradable firmware and the conspiracy theorist in me thought that somehow NVidia was responsible for that anti-consumer BS. Glad to know that I was 100% correct and that being a conspiracy theorist paid off. 

[Error 52]

G-Sync Ultimate blocking monitor updates seems...legitimately insane to me? Like I'm shocked Linus sorta glossed over it, that's fucked up.

[Brawhammer]

Linus can't really tweet things like this: 

 

 

And then take an RTX 4080 sponsor in the next video lol.

 

Am I perhaps thinking about this too much? I really think LTT glossed over the whole RTX 4080 scenario a bit too much. And, I cannot help that shouty drama fueled part of my brain that says; of course they would if they had deals like this on the table.

 

Anyway, would be nice if we had this kinda thing addressed. The price of the RTX 4080 is a talking point, and LTT taking sponsors for it tells me they're fine with the pricing of it, otherwise you wouldn't take the sponsor.

Telling us to stop buying them to lower the price, while also advertising them to us, is you not at all standing up for anything? There is something you can do, stand with the community.

 

Cheers,

[VinLAURiA]

I'm still iffy on the whole issue with burn-in on OLEDs, even if it's been greatly reduced. Quantum dots help, but I'm still holding out for straight-up QDEL displays (which also seem to leapfrog µLED while we're at it).

 

As far as "this is as good as it gets" attitude, this is sort of tangential, but I think monitors' practical limit is gonna max out at 8K300. Apparently 300Hz is about the threshold for "it can't get any smoother" in terms of what humans can perceive, and I consider 8K the perfect resolution for a physical panel even if not actually run at its native resolution, because 1080p, 1440p, and 4K all integer scale perfectly up to it at 4x, 3x, and 2x respectively, and the actual physical pixel grid remains "retina" scale at up to a roomy 28", meaning you're getting either perfect detail at native resolution and no perceivable screen door even when upscaling lower resolutions.

[Sarra]

There were a LOT of audio problems with this video. D: Kinda disappointing.

[marcgii]

I literally got my DW my not even a week ago when I saw it go on sale for $100 off.  I had no reason to think the Freesync version would be superior since the early reporting simply labeled it as a freesync version with a lower refresh rate.  I tempted to return mine just for the lack of firmware updates.  

 

EDIT:

Yep, the new DWF even has better input lag according to the Tom's Hardware Review.  Thankfully, it looks like Dell will give me a full refund with free return shipping.

[Ultraforce]

3 hours ago, XenZibe said:

Linus can't really tweet things like this: 

 

 

And then take an RTX 4080 sponsor in the next video lol.

 

Am I perhaps thinking about this too much? I really think LTT glossed over the whole RTX 4080 scenario a bit too much. And, I cannot help that shouty drama fueled part of my brain that says; of course they would if they had deals like this on the table.

 

Anyway, would be nice if we had this kinda thing addressed. The price of the RTX 4080 is a talking point, and LTT taking sponsors for it tells me they're fine with the pricing of it, otherwise you wouldn't take the sponsor.

Telling us to stop buying them to lower the price, while also advertising them to us, is you not at all standing up for anything? There is something you can do, stand with the community.

 

Cheers,

I think that there could be an arguement on that account is for his personal opinions the team that works with sponsors is separate from the writers and he didn't say those words in the ad so it's less a reflection of him and more so that LMG corporately likes the money they can get from MSI when advertising a 4080 even if the CEO thinks it's a bad purchase.

[Luscious]

Being an early adopter DOESN'T suck.

 

I plunked $1000 down on a LG 34UM95 back in 2014 the day these were first released. I cannot tell you how much I enjoyed that 34 inch 3440x1440 IPS display, and at the time that I got it, was using it as the primary display for my notebook of all things over a DisplayPort connection. A year later when I got my new desktop finally assembled the same monitor carried over for some 4-way SLI gaming duty as well as serious multitasking and multimedia work. Never at any time did I experience any issues with the monitor, until it finally quit working 8 years later when a power issue took it out.

 

$1000 over 8 years = hardly what I would call a bad investment.

 

What did I replace it with? The same LG 21:9 IPS panel, only now I upgraded to an even more impressive 38 inch 3840x1600 curved 1ms 144Hz model. The LG 38WN95C that I now have definitely improves over the OG 21:9. The added resolution makes work tasks and multitasking even easier while the high refresh rate is a massive advantage when it comes to gaming. Most importantly though I get to enjoy the very same benefits of that IPS tech versus the burn in that OLED will get you. Heck, I'm even using the same calibration that I used on my old monitor to nail the color accuracy, making everything look just as good as it did on my old panel. I was even able to pick up a monitor mount for it that gives me more adjustability than what the old one was capable of. Two thumbs up 

 

Will this last 7 years? I don't know. But I do know that this is the right choice for me. Burn in is something that may not affect many users, but based on my habits, I know it would be an issue for me. I have seen it happen on more than one of my devices sadly, the technology for OLED just isn't ripe yet or it's being implemented the wrong way. IPS is a huge bonus where you keep stuff on the screen all day long, it's got fantastic color accuracy and is just the better pick for a computer monitor IMO. I can tell you I am getting a lot of enjoyment out of this new monitor 

[papajo]

7 hours ago, Plouffe said:

Dell-Alienware JUST launched the AW3423DW earlier this year, so how could the $200-cheaper DWF refresh possibly be any different? We did some digging to find out, and you might be surprised by how much of a difference a few months can make when working with a new technology.

 

Buy an Alienware AW3423DW: https://lmg.gg/A3q28

 

Buy an Alienware AW3423DWF: https://lmg.gg/4tQLc

 

Purchases made through some store links may provide some compensation to Linus Media Group.

 

 

As far as diminishing returns go I am going to disagree I mean maybe in gaming you are not gonna notice 165 vs 240 mhz but having a 144 mhz and a 165 monitor I can say that I can find the 165 better in windows desktop/productivity tasks..

Yes it doesnt help my productivity to hover right and left windows and have them look smoother or scroll down text and being able to still read it while scrolling down or almost able to read it or just hover my mouse here and there (if you scroll down fast) but i really like the difference

And although my 165 mhz is noticeably better at that than my 144mhz one it still doesnt feel "completely" smooth I mean I think I would need about double that refresh rate to be completely smooth or at least close to that (so maybe 240hz? ) Unfortunately I never tested such a monitor yet to be sure. 

[CaptainFluffy]

5 hours ago, marcgii said:

I literally got my DW my not even a week ago when I saw it go on sale for $100 off.  I had no reason to think the Freesync version would be superior since the early reporting simply labeled it as a freesync version with a lower refresh rate.  I tempted to return mine just for the lack of firmware updates.  

 

EDIT:

Yep, the new DWF even has better input lag according to the Tom's Hardware Review.  Thankfully, it looks like Dell will give me a full refund with free return shipping.

Damn. I might just avoid all G-Sync monitors from now on. Good job Dell for being 100 emoji 100 emoji 100 emoji. 

[SolarNova]

LCD cant be replaced soon enough, it was trash when it 1st released, and while its better now ...its just better trash.

 

OLED, while it has its flaws, has its flaws in areas that dont affect image quality, unlike LCD

Similarly , both CRT and Plasma had flaws ,,big power hungry heavy flaws ..but they didnt affect image quality which is what made them so good.

 

For me, im waiting on the Corsair Xeneon FLEX to release. Unless something better (higher resolution) is announced before then, ill be waiting to purchase one so long as the price isn't crazy.

We know it 'should' be below 2k, however i wont be getting it if its higher than 1.5k...so we shall see. The bendable feature is a gimmick that is likely adding on a sizable chunk of cost which is unfortunate, im more than likely going to be using it completely flat anyway.

 

I can happily say i have skipped LCD as a whole for my PC usage. I went from CRT to Plasma and still rock an old Plasma, i cant stand LCD greys, poor uniformity, and their piss poor pixel response...so going OLED from Plasma should be a nice upgrade ..but I wont get that same awe-inspiring effect from the inky blacks since I havnt suffered LCD like most people have.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

6 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

LCD cant be replaced soon enough, it was trash when it 1st released, and while its better now ...its just better trash.

 

OLED, while it has its flaws, has its flaws in areas that dont affect image quality, unlike LCD

Similarly , both CRT and Plasma had flaws ,,big power hungry heavy flaws ..but they didnt affect image quality which is what made them so good.

 

For me, im waiting on the Corsair Xeneon FLEX to release. Unless something better (higher resolution) is announced before then, ill be waiting to purchase one so long as the price isn't crazy.

We know it 'should' be below 2k, however i wont be getting it if its higher than 1.5k...so we shall see. The bendable feature is a gimmick that is likely adding on a sizable chunk of cost which is unfortunate, im more than likely going to be using it completely flat anyway.

 

I can happily say i have skipped LCD as a whole for my PC usage. I went from CRT to Plasma and still rock an old Plasma, i cant stand LCD greys, poor uniformity, and their piss poor pixel response...so going OLED from Plasma should be a nice upgrade ..but I wont get that same awe-inspiring effect from the inky blacks since I havnt suffered LCD like most people have.

LCD Blows chunks. I am instaordering the first 27-32 inch OLED with a high refresh rate as long as it's below ~$700. I can't stand ultrawide

[marcgii]

@Plouffe  During the review, Linus said he wasn't a fan of the way it handled bright highlights in HDR mode by default.  Was this for the Peak 1000 mode?  Have you or anyone experimented with the other HDR modes available? 

[s1aver]

@Plouffe  According to the Toms Hardware review the EOTF tracking in HDR 1000 is supposed be pretty bad on the DWF vs the DW(which tracks perfectly) and appears to be much more than simple prioritizing APL vs highlight detail as shown in your review. Could you guy post the DWF's EOTF plots for HDR 1000 & HDR 1000 with source tone map enabled. Thanks.

 

 

[HumdrumPenguin]

Linus mentions his monitor showing image retention at an early stage, but he doesn't name it. Does anyone know which monitor he is talking about?

[MadBadCat]

It's interesting how DW is beating DWF on everything when it's about image quality and DWF beats DW on everything else.

 

I personally value quality over arguably gimmicky controls like PIP/PBP. I've never seen an actual good use-case for it, I'm guessing streamers maybe? A second monitor seems always better to me.

 

As for FW updates, I'm meh. If we're being pedantic, yeah early adoption sucks if you're stuck with a bug, you'd want some sort of fix for the price you're paying.

 

It's really a tougher call today however, now that the early issues are sorted out in DW units. Tom's Hardware makes DWF's HDR tone mapping a very hard sell for the price, the difference seems larger than $200 IMO. DW is basically perfect where DWF seems suffering.

I wish the review spent a bit more on this. The slides show LTT put DW's HDR1000 against DWF's Console results during HDR comparison, I don't know why? Apples to apples LTT!

 

For those who missed it:

 

(lower is better)

DW avg: 9.92 | max:19.66

DWF avg: 25.28! | max: 46.12

 

i.e. the maximum of DW is smaller than DWF's average with luminance. That's A LOT of difference imo.

 

LTT Slide for DW

 

LTT Slide for DWF