How to oc 3200mt ram to 3600

[Ebony Falcon]

Iv got some Corsair 3200mt cl16 ram

 

It won’t run at 3600 just by changing the speed so I figured I need to loosen timings

but what do I loosen just the cl on the primary from 16 to 18cl and try that or do I need to do the others a bit to? 
Any surgetions ? 

[svmlegacy]

Usually I start by scaling all the JEDEC timings to make it is the same amount of latency in time.

 

It helps to know what your memory dies are, and what they are capable of to begin with. Most 3200 kits should do 3600 without much trouble, though.

[Ebony Falcon]

1 minute ago, svmlegacy said:

Usually I start by scaling all the JEDEC timings to make it is the same amount of latency in time.

 

It helps to know what your memory dies are, and what they are capable of to begin with. Most 3200 kits should do 3600 without much trouble, though.

16-18-18-36

so I’d take that to 

18- 20-20-38 ? 

[Ebony Falcon]

[-rascal-]

3 minutes ago, Ebony Falcon said:

16-18-18-36

so I’d take that to 

18- 20-20-38 ? 

 

I would also probably try one step at a time, rather than straight to DDR4-3600.

There is the possibility that DDR4-3600 is too high for your kit.

So try DDR4-3400 or something in between DDR4-3200 ~ DDR4-3600.

 

What DRAM voltage are you using?

Usually XMP profiles will set to 1.35V ~ 1.40V.

While JEDEC default is 1.2V.

 

Another thing is loosen up the timings more, say DDR4-3600 20-30-30-50 2T, then slowly tighten them one-by-one.

 

[Ebony Falcon]

1 minute ago, -rascal- said:

 

I would also probably try one step at a time, rather than straight to DDR4-3600.

There is the possibility that DDR4-3600 is too high for your kit.

So try DDR4-3400 or something in between DDR4-3200 ~ DDR4-3600.

 

What DRAM voltage are you using?

Usually XMP profiles will set to 1.35V ~ 1.40V.

While JEDEC default is 1.2V.

 

Another thing is loosen up the timings more, say DDR4-3600 20-30-30-50 2T, then slowly tighten them one-by-one.

 

I can run 3333mt with same timings and voltage 

[Ebony Falcon]

1.35v

[svmlegacy]

If it is indeed Hynix 8Gb MFR, you might just be hitting the limits of your sticks.You might be able to get it a bit faster with a good OC, but it seems not many people push it past 3200. https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/oc-guide/DDR4 OC Guide.md

[WereCat]

I don't have any experience with Hynix M-die but you should be able to get easy performance bump by just setting:

 

tFAW 16

tRRDS 4 (tRRD_dg) 

tRRDL 4 (tRRD_sg) (or 6 if you have Dual Rank sticks) 

 

This will give the biggest performance boost regardless of primary timings but this is also not measurable by Aida64 bench 

 

edit:

tRRDL and tRRDS may be also called tRRD_sg and tRRD_dg depending on BIOS 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

35 minutes ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Rip thats garbage ram

Hynix 8gbit mfr, at best you are looking at a pathetic 3466

 

Maybe tightening the subtimings will do something, i mean the subtimings are always trash on xmp, maybe look at tightening

21 minutes ago, WereCat said:

tFAW 16

tRRDS 4

tRRDL 4 (or 6 if you have Dual Rank sticks) 

These (though tfaw just set to 1 as itll run at 4x trrds anyways) and maybe add in trc, trfc, and twr as those also give pretty good performance bump, make sure to also set trefi 65536 for extra performance

 

 

I was assuming you would have some decent sticks with hynix djrs (4800+) or something

[WereCat]

5 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Rip thats garbage ram

Hynix 8gbit mfr, at best you are looking at a pathetic 3466

 

Maybe tightening the subtimings will do something, i mean the subtimings are always trash on xmp, maybe look at tightening

These (though tfaw just set to 1 as itll run at 4x trrds anyways) and maybe add in trc, trfc, and twr as those also give pretty good performance bump, make sure to also set trefi 65536 for extra performance

I'll just add that trefi maxed out may make the RAM quite toasty so it's good to have some airflow over RAM or not max it out 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Just now, WereCat said:

I'll just add that trefi maxed out may make the RAM quite toasty so it's good to have some airflow over RAM or not max it out 

So it makes the rams hotter while also making them more temp sensitive, though i would assume op is running 1.35v or sometrhing so maybe it isnt an issue, esp at such slow 3200 speeds

[Ebony Falcon]

3 hours ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

So it makes the rams hotter while also making them more temp sensitive, though i would assume op is running 1.35v or sometrhing so maybe it isnt an issue, esp at such slow 3200 speeds

So should I just leave my ram at 3333mt that I can get without changing timings and call it a day ? 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 minute ago, Ebony Falcon said:

So should I just leave my ram at 3333mt that I can get without changing timings and call it a day ? 

Eh rams arent that important anyways, but id atleast do some quick easy noticable boosts like maxing out trefi and tightening tfaw, trc, trrd-l/s, and trfc

[Mark Kaine]

So what i did... 

set freq to 3600

set timings from 14 14 14 34 to 16 16 16 36

set voltage to 1.36 (or 1.35?)

soc 1.125

vddp 0.9v

fclk 1800 megahurtz

 

save and reboot 

 

 

4 hours ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Rip thats garbage ram

ah. the hynix curse?

 

5 hours ago, WereCat said:

tFAW 16

tRRDS 4 (tRRD_dg) 

tRRDL 4 (tRRD_sg) (or 6 if you have Dual Rank sticks) 

this is what I was going to do next 

 

and

 

tRC = rRP + tRAS + 8

 

.

 

and profit??

 

 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

8 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

ah. the hynix curse?

No its just a really old and bad hynix ic, hynix makes decent stuff like djr capable of 4800+ shenanigans

[Mark Kaine]

21 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

No its just a really old and bad hynix ic, hynix makes decent stuff like djr capable of 4800+ shenanigans

oh yeah ik hynix makes good ram, its just the majority seems to be ... not good?

 

i had lpx/hynix... did exactly what it said on the box and no oc'ing whatsoever... and i also always had weird crashes... but that may have just been a bad bios tbh... the ram still didn't oc with a better bios though

[WereCat]

56 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

So what i did... 

set freq to 3600

set timings from 14 14 14 34 to 16 16 16 36

set voltage to 1.36 (or 1.35?)

soc 1.125

vddp 0.9v

fclk 1800 megahurtz

Do you really need a whooping 1.125V on SOC just for 3600MT/s? My R9 3900X is fine at 1.05V even at 3800MT/s. Also considering you have a 5800X3D the RAM OC will not benefit you nearly as much. But since I've never seen any good test for that I will pass on the judgement for now. I plan to get that CPU and try for myself once the prices drop a bit more or after I get my bonus. My theory for now is that optimizing for latency rather that bandwidth makes more sense for 5800X3D even if you have to go lower clocks on both RAM and FCLK but we'll see about that.

[Mark Kaine]

3 minutes ago, WereCat said:

Do you really need a whooping 1.125V on SOC just for 3600MT/s? My R9 3900X is fine at 1.05V even at 3800MT/s

hmm, honestly that's what all the guides say... 1.125 and not more! id need to check but i think my mobo sets it even higher at default/ xmp

but i see, well i havent tried to go lower (on my old b350 board with a 3600 it wouldn't even boot with lower soc iirc) but i can try that... so 1.05v... or 1.08v something like that? 

 

7 minutes ago, WereCat said:

My theory for now is that optimizing for latency rather that bandwidth makes more sense for 5800X3D

yeah, i think that too... still trying to figure out how to go about it...

 

so i think ... set it to cl14, leave the voltage at 1.36, and if it doesn't boot go to 1.38 , and so on?

^ just my theory, on my old board/cpu i didn't get very far with that... i think 1.45v and it still didn't boot lol so i gave up there  

 

Also i did a few tests...

2133mhz,  3200mhz, 3600mhz... there is almost no difference... maybe 200 points in cb23... "great" but irl scenario thats nothing lol...

 

in that respect it would really be interesting to tighten the timings / sub timings?

 

 

 

 

 

[WereCat]

13 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

hmm, honestly that's what all the guides say... 1.125 and not more! id need to check but i think my mobo sets it even higher at default/ xmp

but i see, well i havent tried to go lower (on my old b350 board with a 3600 it wouldn't even boot with lower soc iirc) but i can try that... so 1.05v... or 1.08v something like that? 

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm still on 3000 series and default here is 1.08V on SOC and so far I've found that to be more than plenty for any memory OC I've done. Maybe on 5000 series it's required for SOC to have higher voltage... idk.

 

13 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

 

 

so i think ... set it to cl14, leave the voltage at 1.36, and if it doesn't boot go to 1.38 , and so on?

^ just my theory, on my old board/cpu i didn't get very far with that... i think 1.45v and it still didn't boot lol so i gave up there  

 

Also i did a few tests...

2133mhz,  3200mhz, 3600mhz... there is almost no difference... maybe 200 points in cb23... "great" but irl scenario thats nothing lol...

 

in that respect it would really be interesting to tighten the timings / sub timings?

 

You need to do some actually memory intensive tasks. Cinebench and Aida64 are a poor representation of memory performance. You will have to do something like Super pi, Linpack or heck even Time Spy CPU part of the physics bench.

 

Regarding voltage, depending on which kind of memory you have up to 1.4V should be perfectly fine on any DDR4 I believe. Something like Samsung B-die or Micron E-die can do 1.5V heck even 1.55V for daily use (with airflow over the sticks).

 

You also want to set VTTDDR Voltage to roughly half of your DRAM voltage. Some memory likes slightly less or slightly more... depends. May help with OC but it's good to start at 1/2 rounded up if necessary.

 

VPP_MEM Voltage should be always around 2.5V to 2.52V (2.52V because with some LLC settings the voltage drops during load slightly so it evens out roughly at 2.5V).

[Mark Kaine]

6 minutes ago, WereCat said:

You need to do some actually memory intensive tasks. Cinebench and Aida64 are a poor representation of memory performance. You will have to do something like Super pi, Linpack or heck even Time Spy CPU part of the physics bench.

ah, i see, good old time spy... i wanted to try this anyway to see what kind of difference there is to the r5 3600... my cpu score always dragged me down quite a bit. 

 

9 minutes ago, WereCat said:

Regarding voltage, depending on which kind of memory you have up to 1.4V should be perfectly fine on any DDR4 I believe. Something like Samsung B-die or Micron E-die can do 1.5V heck even 1.55V for daily use (with airflow over the sticks).

yeah its b-die, hence i stopped at 1.45v, seemed like a safe spot, but as said it didn't work with tightened timings... all i could do was cl16/ 3600mhz (at 1.36v)

^ by which I don't want to say its bad ram, just that i didn't know what other settings to change lol... 

 

15 minutes ago, WereCat said:

You also want to set VTTDDR Voltage to roughly half of your DRAM voltage. Some memory likes slightly less or slightly more... depends. May help with OC but it's good to start at 1/2 rounded up if necessary.

 

VPP_MEM Voltage should be always around 2.5V to 2.52V (2.52V because with some LLC settings the voltage drops during load slightly so it evens out roughly at 2.5V).

hmm, gonna try this out, thanks

 

 

i still need to find a good buildzoid video for b-dies then i can just do whatever he does ; D

 

i saw the one with the Samsung E-dies... 5000mhz! but with really loose timings and only 1 stick  

 

 

 

 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

41 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

so i think ... set it to cl14, leave the voltage at 1.36, and if it doesn't boot go to 1.38 , and so on?

^ just my theory, on my old board/cpu i didn't get very far with that... i think 1.45v and it still didn't boot lol so i gave up there  

Cas dont seem to do shit for performance compared to the amount of volt you dump into it so just keep it right before it starts gobbling up volt

 

And focus on subtimings, particularly trfc, twr, trc, tfaw, and basically all the tertiaries

 

30 minutes ago, WereCat said:

Regarding voltage, depending on which kind of memory you have up to 1.4V should be perfectly fine on any DDR4 I believe. Something like Samsung B-die or Micron E-die can do 1.5V heck even 1.55V for daily use (with airflow over the sticks).

1.55v is a rather conservative max volt, apparently some oc nuts run 1.7v daily on bdie and even rev e no issues there, though bdie tops out at 1.75v and potential slight imc degradation above 1.7v to my knowledge, though a mild overclock <4000 you prob only need tops 1.6v if you are just dumping volt into trfc or something but around 1.5v with some airflow is prob what youd max out at without having a particular timing just gobbling voltage and making the sticks more volatile since bdie is super temp sensitive

 

I only have the knowledge side of things though since i dont got ddr4 stuff maybe ill grab a cheap 9th - 11th gen board and an i3 or pentium but still gonna be like 100$ used. Though i guess i could do some extra money saving by just crossflashing a b or h series to a z board bios, and also just buying broken stuff

[Mark Kaine]

12 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

I only have the knowledge side of things though since i dont got ddr4 stuff maybe ill grab a cheap 9th - 11th gen board and an i3 or pentium but still gonna be like 100$ used. Though i guess i could do some extra money saving by just crossflashing a b or h series to a z board bios, and also just buying broken stuff

10850k is the holy grail imo... 10 cores 20 threads

 

but its still a bit on the expensive side...

 

A 10850k is basically a broken 10900k = )

 

16 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

And focus on subtimings, particularly trfc, twr, trc, tfaw, and basically all the tertiaries

yeah, yeah, but besides the few things i picked up (and haven't tried yet) this is really a bit too complicated for me at the moment and I'd want to learn how to tighten primary timings first...

So the 14cl / 1.38v etc approach is in the right ballpark ?  

 

... i really need to find a good buildzoid video... in the E-die video he went really through every step (just to say that it all wasn't really necessary and he did it just for show lmao)

 

 

 

 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

10 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

10850k is the holy grail imo... 10 cores 20 threads

 

but its still a bit on the expensive side...

 

A 10850k is basically a broken 10900k = )

 

yeah, yeah, but besides the few things i picked up (and haven't tried yet) this is really a bit too complicated for me at the moment and I'd want to learn how to tighten primary timings first...

So the 14cl / 1.38v etc approach is in the right ballpark ?  

 

... i really need to find a good buildzoid video... in the E-die video he went really through every step (just to say that it all wasn't really necessary and he did it just for show lmao)

 

 

 

 

Again primaries are irrelevant and you just look for bdie oc profiles

 

Gods sake its literally just setting a value its not that hard, i can literally lazy tighten the subtimings on my pscs at 1333 without any reference in a few minutes

[Ebony Falcon]

7 hours ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Again primaries are irrelevant and you just look for bdie oc profiles

 

Gods sake its literally just setting a value its not that hard, i can literally lazy tighten the subtimings on my pscs at 1333 without any reference in a few minutes

 

7 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

10850k is the holy grail imo... 10 cores 20 threads

 

but its still a bit on the expensive side...

 

A 10850k is basically a broken 10900k = )

 

yeah, yeah, but besides the few things i picked up (and haven't tried yet) this is really a bit too complicated for me at the moment and I'd want to learn how to tighten primary timings first...

So the 14cl / 1.38v etc approach is in the right ballpark ?  

 

... i really need to find a good buildzoid video... in the E-die video he went really through every step (just to say that it all wasn't really necessary and he did it just for show lmao)

 

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Cas dont seem to do shit for performance compared to the amount of volt you dump into it so just keep it right before it starts gobbling up volt

 

And focus on subtimings, particularly trfc, twr, trc, tfaw, and basically all the tertiaries

 

1.55v is a rather conservative max volt, apparently some oc nuts run 1.7v daily on bdie and even rev e no issues there, though bdie tops out at 1.75v and potential slight imc degradation above 1.7v to my knowledge, though a mild overclock <4000 you prob only need tops 1.6v if you are just dumping volt into trfc or something but around 1.5v with some airflow is prob what youd max out at without having a particular timing just gobbling voltage and making the sticks more volatile since bdie is super temp sensitive

 

I only have the knowledge side of things though since i dont got ddr4 stuff maybe ill grab a cheap 9th - 11th gen board and an i3 or pentium but still gonna be like 100$ used. Though i guess i could do some extra money saving by just crossflashing a b or h series to a z board bios, and also just buying broken stuff

 

8 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

ah, i see, good old time spy... i wanted to try this anyway to see what kind of difference there is to the r5 3600... my cpu score always dragged me down quite a bit. 

 

yeah its b-die, hence i stopped at 1.45v, seemed like a safe spot, but as said it didn't work with tightened timings... all i could do was cl16/ 3600mhz (at 1.36v)

^ by which I don't want to say its bad ram, just that i didn't know what other settings to change lol... 

 

hmm, gonna try this out, thanks

 

 

i still need to find a good buildzoid video for b-dies then i can just do whatever he does ; D

 

i saw the one with the Samsung E-dies... 5000mhz! but with really loose timings and only 1 stick  

 

 

 

 

Would these be better 3600 cl16 32gb £114