LTT Backpack £69 import to UK

[shaggysean]

So I live in Scotland and my backpack has just arrived. I had nothing extra to pay when it was in the delivery process. Upon looking at the customs declaration they set the value of the item at £50. So I am assuming that is why I had nothing extra to pay as it was below the threshold.

[msknight]

1 hour ago, shaggysean said:

So I live in Scotland and my backpack has just arrived. I had nothing extra to pay when it was in the delivery process. Upon looking at the customs declaration they set the value of the item at £50. So I am assuming that is why I had nothing extra to pay as it was below the threshold.

I think that's called fraud

[shaggysean]

21 minutes ago, msknight said:

I think that's called fraud

 

[gameofyou]

2 hours ago, shaggysean said:

 

That sure beats my having to pay vat on a free pack of stickers as they were valued at a dollar!

[msknight]

2 hours ago, gameofyou said:

That sure beats my having to pay vat on a free pack of stickers as they were valued at a dollar!

Mine just arrived as well... and like you, the free stickers were valued at a dollar. 

 

But I am looking for Linus to address this whole mess, including some of the $50 customs declarations, in the WAN show tomorrow. This is not funny.

 

[msknight]

Working this backwards, £52.14 of VAT, that comes to 20% of £260.70. At a GBP to USD conversion of 0.86 pence to the dollar, that comes back at $303.14, so that's very close to the cost of the backpack and the postage... and the cost of the free sticker pack is probably thrown in there as well. So, yeah. VAT paid on the whole thing, as expected.

 

Whoever is getting away with a $50 value claim that Creator Warehouse put on those declarations, is really getting off sweet to the tune of £15-ish-thereabouts, even if LT Store does refund the rest of us the $61.20 they collected in taxes, which is £52.63... because they didn't get the duty charge and nor did they get the £12 Parcel Force handling fee.

 

Phew... yeah... this is a whole can of worms !!! And these numbers are going to change a little because the exchange rate is constantly varying. But we're in the right sort of ball parks by the looks of it.

[msknight]

Just to add a little more to the conspiracy, it is possible that LTT are already fully aware of what's been happening, hence they ask for proof of the customs fees paid, before refunding the VAT that they collected at the store; so that they don't refund the VAT to someone who got a $50 declaration and thus paid nothing to customs... but that's starting to get into tin foil hat territory.

 

Ooh! Isn't this a fun diversion for a Friday afternoon!

 

...and the, "Right To Repair" sticker is going on my 7 year old Macbook Air... (which is running Linux) 

[Just that Mario]

On 11/9/2022 at 3:30 PM, msknight said:

This isn't double VAT. It's that goods of below a certain value, VAT is collected by the seller and collected at time of purchase even though they are outside the UK. Goods above a certain value are not charged VAT by the seller and instead customs sort it out. The problem being that if customs sort it out, there are invariably more charges added on, such as the charge that Parcel Force add on for the favour they do of paying the VAT up front and then recouping it from you later on.

 

It's just in this case, that LTT Store has collected VAT for goods above that threshold when they shouldn't have in this instance... which will get refunded in due course, but might also have resulted in excess VAT being charged... depending on what value was declared on the forms... ie. if the goods were 200, and VAT was 20%, then the total paid at checkout was 240... but depending on what was on the form, UK customs might have charged 20% on the original 200 or might have actually ended up charging 20% of 240, which would have resulted in extra charges. 

 

So... no... this is not the double VAT of old, and LTT will get on top of it in due course.

VAT is applied to all products doesn't matter its cost, lol. More info can be read https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-imports-acquisitions-and-purchases-from-abroad#goods-from-eu-countries


<removed by staff>

Edited November 11, 2022 by SansVarnic
Removed content.

[MrAmos123]

3 hours ago, Just that Mario said:

VAT is applied to all products doesn't matter its cost, lol. More info can be read https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-imports-acquisitions-and-purchases-from-abroad#goods-from-eu-countries

<removed by staff>

Maybe read the post. 

VAT was applied TWICE. This should never have been the case.

 

They should not have collected VAT/TAX at checkout, yet they did. Entry into the UK also got customs charge (second VAT/TAX). 

 

If <removed by staff>, why does LTT Store also include a dedicated post about double-VAT problem?

Edited November 11, 2022 by SansVarnic
Removed content

[msknight]

Sitting here listening to the WAN show and I don't recall the VAT issue being in the opening statements. Linus looks to care more about the crap show that Musk is making of Twitter than his customers getting shafted, VAT fraud committed in the companies name, etc.

 

And he even missed one of the biggest laughs on Musk, that after he fired loads of staff, he had to ask some of them to come back again because they were critical to Twitter operations. https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/07/twitter_recalls_staff/

[msknight]

I'm 1 hour 20 mins in and have to go do stuff.. but nothing about the subject in WAN so far. Right now, my thoughts are cancelling floatplane and turning off to LTT. Will watch the rest later.

 

Lack of LTT response on this is not acceptable in my book. This is people's money and the queue for response on refunds is running more than a week; this needs a response I believe.

 

OMG. 2:11:40 - During a discussion on the possibility of a distribution centre in Europe, he actually believes that LTT store is doing tax remittance properly and that he's dotting the I's and crossing the T's. Beg to differ Linus.

 

Private DM turned on at Linus' Twitter, so I pinged that with a link to this. We'll see what happens, but based on the lack of response on all other channels of communication, I'm not expecting much. Floatplane cancelled. That's me done.

 

@Gameofyou ... keep your paperwork. If LTTStore don't sort out the VAT issue in a few weeks, then lodge a complaint with HMRC. You're going to need your reference numbers and stuff.

[merco]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqgSEgVph1U&t=1857s

Just a reminder that corporations are not your friend^TM, that said I would also think of LTT as a relatively small company so these things take time. I hope things are get sorted out for you soon. 

[DeltaBruggemann]

3 hours ago, msknight said:

I don't recall the VAT issue being in the opening statements.

I mean, what did you expect. Tax in Europe is not a headline topic in tech for the week. If you actually look at it from the scale of LTT, there’s a subset of the audience that Orders merch, a subset are from Europe and an even smaller subset of those people have an issue with the whole double vat system. 

 

At the end of the day if you have issue with your order then email support and they’ll help you out. If LTT is not compliant with the various tax laws around the world that’s for the government to sort out.

[msknight]

Just now, DeltaBruggemann said:

I mean, what did you expect. Tax in Europe is not a headline topic in tech for the week.

Linus's opinion of himself and his reputation is a headline topic as far as he's concerned.

 

If LTT is not compliant, it's for LTT to sort out. If LTT fails to sort it out, then it is for the government to sort out. And they will, in time.

[msknight]

2 hours ago, merco said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqgSEgVph1U&t=1857s

Just a reminder that corporations are not your friend^TM, that said I would also think of LTT as a relatively small company so these things take time. I hope things are get sorted out for you soon. 

Thanks. It likely will. The sales of backpacks and screwdrivers has likely overloaded LTT Store; they've had a heck of a lot to deal with because deliveries to them took a hit as well with the delays in shipping from China. Responses had already been taking over a week... and that's before this VAT thing hit.

 

I feel sorry for gameofyou and others who have already been waiting a week; I've already resigned myself to not getting my refund on the backpack VAT until December, and then I'm going to have the screwdriver order to deal with as well. Some people have already stretched their budgets to get the backpack (and screwdrivers) so delays on VAT which is more than £50 a time, is going to hurt people when there's already a financial crunch going on, and that's less money in their pockets while people are trying to sort out christmas as well.

 

This whole thing has come down to bad timing and circumstance, but I really had hoped to hear something from Linus about this whole situation sooner than now.

[merco]

1 hour ago, msknight said:

This whole thing has come down to bad timing and circumstance, but I really had hoped to hear something from Linus about this whole situation sooner than now.

That's understandable since he usually paints this picture of himself that he cares a lot. I also believe that we shouldn't forget that he is doing quite well for himself and that he's very good at marketing. The financial support that people show him because of that is probably not always warranted. It's obviously fine to support content creators if you wish, but your disappointment sounded kind of personal and at that point, I would probably reconsider something like a floatplane subscription, maybe support a charity of your choice instead. That way you help people that actually need it more and you gain some distance to a more or less one sided business relationship, that can sometimes feel like more than it actually is, because of the way it is set up in social media.

[msknight]

1 hour ago, merco said:

your disappointment sounded kind of personal

Yeah, I've been following Linus for some years. His underlying ethic is great; especially liked how he tried to demonstrate ways for younger people to use their spare time to earn money for their upgrades. But as he said himself in, I think it was the last WAN show... he's changed. He's more used to barking the orders and getting things done... and there's a lot to be done in the organisation as of the last few years. More staff, LTT Store's gone nuts, the backpack, the screwdriver, the lab, the new buildings... and let's not forget the video where he nearly quit due to the strain. Not to mention the strain that the family and others close to him have been feeling ramp up over the years.

 

But your suggestion is a good one; I'll put the floatplane money to a good cause; there's so much going on with food bank use through the roof and stuff... a lot of people need a lot of support right now.

[msknight]

< removed by moderation >

 

 

IOSS isn't an issue because above the various thresholds, the seller is not entitled to collect VAT on a purchase any more... because that purchase takes it beyond "double VAT" because it goes beyond VAT. More elements are at play, such as Customs Duty, which is in addition to VAT.

 

That is the reason why IOSS doesn't apply... because it is beyond the IOSS limits and thus beyond the simple situation of VAT, and thus brings into play the various codes that are seen on customs returns which indicate which customs duty also applies to the transaction... which is why the seller isn't "allowed" to handle the customs/VAT transaction above the limit that the various countries set...and hence IOSS no longer applies.

Edited November 15, 2022 by LogicalDrm

[DeltaBruggemann]

8 minutes ago, msknight said:

That's because you didn't do your research. IOSS isn't an issue, because it doesn't apply to transactions to the Uk which are larger than £135. Sellers aren't entitled to collect VAT through IOSS which are greater than £135. So, yeah.... 

LTT have already made a statement saying there’s an issue with the Taxing system they are using and they are trying to get the company that made the system to fix it but that is outside of their control.

[msknight]

1 minute ago, DeltaBruggemann said:

LTT have already made a statement saying there’s an issue with the Taxing system they are using and they are trying to get the company that made the system to fix it but that is outside of their control.

Correct. What is also outside their control, is the company sending the goods, claiming $50 value on a customs declaration when the goods are actually $249.99 or claiming $1 for a pack of free stickers. But what is inside their control, is whether to use that company or not. Either way, Linus takes this stuff very seriously, and in previous incidents of this nature has been up front and honest about situations, what they mean and what he's going to do about them... and that's what's been missing so far.

[DeltaBruggemann]

12 minutes ago, msknight said:

Correct. What is also outside their control, is the company sending the goods, claiming $50 value on a customs declaration when the goods are actually $249.99 or claiming $1 for a pack of free stickers. But what is inside their control, is whether to use that company or not. Either way, Linus takes this stuff very seriously, and in previous incidents of this nature has been up front and honest about situations, what they mean and what he's going to do about them... and that's what's been missing so far.

Yes the $50 could be LTT but there’s also multiple third party’s that the information is going through. They probably can’t put down $0 value for an item so even though stickers were free to purchase they still hold a value that needs to be accounted for.

As for the $50 customs decoration. It’s been a very small sample of people so far so what is more likely that someone for got to add a 2 to the front of the number, could happen Easy enough.

[msknight]

1 minute ago, DeltaBruggemann said:

Yes the $50 could be LTT but there’s also multiple third party’s that the information is going through. They probably can’t put down $0 value for an item so even though stickers were free to purchase they still hold a value that needs to be accounted for.

As for the $50 customs decoration. It’s been a very small sample of people so far so what is more likely that someone for got to add a 2 to the front of the number, could happen Easy enough.

If the $50 is LTT, that's even worse, because to my understanding, that's straight out fraud. Making a deliberate fraudulent statement on a customs form is very serious; as Linus acknowledged at the end of the last WAN show. He, of all people, doesn't want tax investigators knocking at LTT's door. You don't accidentally miss the leading 2 from a number which is 249.99. They should be able to put down a $0 value for an item, or as in the customs form that was demonstrated earlier, omit the stickers altogether from the statement. As for the sample of people, that's only the people who have come forward. The actual numbers... who knows. That's something which I'd expect Linus, with his attitude towards honesty and transparency, to investigate.

[msknight]

Look... at the end of the day, there's some serious stuff going on here, and the only people who can investigate and answer the questions, is LMG. Until that happens, we could be arguing the toss until the next century. I already got the impression that JustThatMario appeared to be more upset that someone stole his thunder than actually being interested in what was actually happening, by saying I was making threats and accusations against LTT, LTT Store, Floatplane and Linus... which is laughable as far as I'm concerned... (what on earth accusation was I making against Floatplane, for crying out loud!) but we need answers from Linus, at the end of the day... and that's what's not happening.

[GOTSpectrum]

1 hour ago, msknight said:

Look... at the end of the day, there's some serious stuff going on here, and the only people who can investigate and answer the questions, is LMG. Until that happens, we could be arguing the toss until the next century. I already got the impression that JustThatMario appeared to be more upset that someone stole his thunder than actually being interested in what was actually happening, by saying I was making threats and accusations against LTT, LTT Store, Floatplane and Linus... which is laughable as far as I'm concerned... (what on earth accusation was I making against Floatplane, for crying out loud!) but we need answers from Linus, at the end of the day... and that's what's not happening.

I think we all need to take a deep breath and relax here. At the end of the day, mistakes do happen, do not attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence. 

 

With that said, I would like to exactly how much LMG has defrauded(hopefully unknowingly) from my government. 

 

I'll reach out to @jakkuh_tas we have a fair working relationship and see if I can get a response. 

[msknight]

23 minutes ago, GOTSpectrum said:

I'll reach out to @jakkuh_tas we have a fair working relationship and see if I can get a response. 

That would be absolutely wonderful. A response is what I'm hoping for, but all the correspondence I've sent, through various channels, have met black holes.