5800X3D help me find benchmark or anyone with an actual experience

[WereCat]

I'm in a kind of a weird spot.

I have Ryzen 9 3900X and I would love to either upgrade to R9 5950X or R7 5800X3D.

 

I absolutely want that sweet FPS boost from 5800X3D but at the same time I don't want to have worse performance than I have now for workloads. I work in Blender and all the CPU benchmarks for Blender I found are focused on CPU based tile rendering which is very useless to me as I use GPU based rendering.

 

What I'm interested in is the viewport and physics simulation in Blender but so far I wasn't able to find any coherent benchmark for this. Some of the smoke simulations I use take around from 20GB to 50GB of RAM so it's a very memory heavy task which makes me wonder if the extra cache on 5800X3D even matters at all since I'm dealing with such a huge data flow or if the extra CPU headroom on 5950X would simply just plow trough it much faster. But I don't really do stuff like this often so even if I had worse performance it does not matter that much. However...

 

I spend most of my time in Viewport adjusting stuff, sometimes it takes a long time moving stuff in Edit mode when working with many verts or sculpting complex geometry or dealing with hair and my CPU is pegged at 100%, I would expect the 5800X3D to be significantly better than at least 3900X for this but again... I can be wrong. This is also somewhat memory demanding task so the cache can be very helpful but I don't know if it matters when it's using around 5GB to 10GB of RAM.

 

Also one thing I never had to deal with, single CCD Ryzens tend to have only half the write speed of memory vs double CCD Ryzens so I don't know if this would be a big hit to the performance as well. I'm not going to buy anything soon but I'm definitely moving to a higher tier on AM4 eventually instead of going AM5 or LGA1700 once these chips appear on 2nd hand market for cheaper. For now just trying to make a sense of it.

[ZetZet]

Just get 5950X. CPU in games only starts making a reasonable impact once you head towards high framerates, so you can just always like not do that and ramp up the graphics more. 

 

 

And if you're worried about longevity think about the fact that 5600,12100F and 12400F were the value CPUs for this generation, 5950X is faster than all of those and developers would never want to abandon most of the market when developing future games. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

8 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

Just get 5950X. CPU in games only starts making a reasonable impact once you head towards high framerates, so you can just always like not do that and ramp up the graphics more. 

Besides since the 5950x is 2ccd you still get 64mb cache so maybe youll get some of that performance boost from the extra cache

[WereCat]

15 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

And if you're worried about longevity think about the fact that 5600,12100F and 12400F were the value CPUs for this generation, 5950X is faster than all of those and developers would never want to abandon most of the market when developing future games. 

There are already games I play at 1440p that are CPU bound for me even with just 3060ti because I play on medium to high settings as I want high FPS. And yes, either 5800X3d or 5950X would be an upgrade from 3900X for gaming it's just that 5800X3D is much bigger upgrade for gaming while I don't know if it's an upgrade or a downgrade for what I work with.

 

18 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

And if you're worried about longevity think about the fact that 5600,12100F and 12400F were the value CPUs for this generation, 5950X is faster than all of those and developers would never want to abandon most of the market when developing future games. 

Not really worried about longevity that much as almost everything is moving further towards GPU based workloads from CPU.

 

10 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Besides since the 5950x is 2ccd you still get 64mb cache so maybe youll get some of that performance boost from the extra cache

Unfortunately there is some performance penalty due to CCD crosstalk so the extra L3 does not make that big of an impact if the data has to constantly flow between CCDs unlike with 5800X3D where you have one single massive pool of it. That's why I would love to know the exact numbers for this comparison.

[ZetZet]

7 minutes ago, WereCat said:

There are already games I play at 1440p that are CPU bound for me even with just 3060ti because I play on medium to high settings as I want high FPS. And yes, either 5800X3d or 5950X would be an upgrade from 3900X for gaming it's just that 5800X3D is much bigger upgrade for gaming while I don't know if it's an upgrade or a downgrade for what I work with.

If there really a difference between 200 and 220 or 300 and 330 fps? It's still very high vs very high. 

[Origami Cactus]

8 minutes ago, WereCat said:

There are already games I play at 1440p that are CPU bound for me even with just 3060ti because I play on medium to high settings as I want high FPS. And yes, either 5800X3d or 5950X would be an upgrade from 3900X for gaming it's just that 5800X3D is much bigger upgrade for gaming while I don't know if it's an upgrade or a downgrade for what I work with.

 

Not really worried about longevity that much as almost everything is moving further towards GPU based workloads from CPU.

 

Unfortunately there is some performance penalty due to CCD crosstalk so the extra L3 does not make that big of an impact if the data has to constantly flow between CCDs unlike with 5800X3D where you have one single massive pool of it. That's why I would love to know the exact numbers for this comparison.

I guarantee you wouldn't get even 10fps difference between the r7 5800x3d or the 5950x with that gpu.

So for your workload go with the 5950x, for gaming it is a massive step-up from your current cpu, and you would get the same fps as with the 5800x3d.

To see a difference between the 2 you would need a 3090 or a faster card, and you would need to play at 1080p mostly, because the difference at 1440p with a 3090 is also not too big.

[WereCat]

Just now, ZetZet said:

If there really a difference between 200 and 220 or 300 and 330 fps? It's still very high vs very high. 

I'm talking about games where I get 70-90FPS because I'm CPU bound instead of pushing past 100. I play with GSync at 165Hz with FPS locked to 160. I don't care about going past the refresh rate but I still want more FPS because being under 100 is too low... especially when it's inconsistent. Besides, this topic was not meant to be about gaming.

[WereCat]

1 minute ago, Origami Cactus said:

I guarantee you wouldn't get even 10fps difference between the r7 5800x3d or the 5950x with that gpu.

So for your workload go with the 5950x, for gaming it is a massive step-up from your current cpu, and you would get the same fps as with the 5800x3d.

To see a difference between the 2 you would need a 3090 or a faster card, and you would need to play at 1080p mostly, because the difference at 1440p with a 3090 is also not too big.

I would because I don't play at max settings and my GPU usually sits at around 60% to 70% usage because of CPU.

[ZetZet]

2 minutes ago, WereCat said:

I'm talking about games where I get 70-90FPS because I'm CPU bound instead of pushing past 100.

What kind of shitty broken game are we talking about here?

[Origami Cactus]

3 minutes ago, WereCat said:

I would because I don't play at max settings and my GPU usually sits at around 60% to 70% usage because of CPU.

You may underestimate just how fast the 5950x is also in gaming. It hits 5ghz, while the 5800x3d is about 4.5ghz, so it gains back some of the lost fps that way.

But there are absolutely games, for example sim games, where because of the physics calculations being single threaded, and the 5800x3d having 100mb of cache accessible by that single thread, where it will be much faster. BUT there are also games where the 5950x is faster thanks to the faster clockspeed.

[Slave2school]

4 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

What kind of shitty broken game are we talking about here?

It must be Valheim!

[WereCat]

3 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

What kind of shitty broken game are we talking about here?

Warzone has massive swings due to CPU overhead in many locations depending on how many players are there.

Arma 3 is ... well Arma game with massive CPU overheads as always. Often I play at 40-50FPS depending on what's going on.

 

1 minute ago, Origami Cactus said:

You may underestimate just how fast the 5950x is also in gaming. It hits 5ghz, while the 5800x3d is about 4.5ghz, so it gains back some of the lost fps that way.

But there are absolutely games, for example sim games, where because of the physics calculations being single threaded, and the 5800x3d having 100mb of cache accessible by that single thread, where it will be much faster. BUT there are also games where the 5950x is faster thanks to the faster clockspeed.

The games where I have FPS issues the 5800X3D fares much better than 5950X.

In games where I don't have FPS issues even my 3900X is fine. I know what I'm expecting for gaming.

 

I want to know ... IS the 5800X3D faster than 5950X for what I do?

Not all workloads benefit from extra cores/threads. WILL my workload benefit more from the massive cache of 5800X3D rather than from 16-croe 5950X?

 

2 minutes ago, Slave2school said:

It must be Valheim!

That too but I haven't played Valheim for quite a while.

[Slave2school]

14 minutes ago, WereCat said:

Warzone has massive swings due to CPU overhead in many locations depending on how many players are there.

Arma 3 is ... well Arma game with massive CPU overheads as always. Often I play at 40-50FPS depending on what's going on.

 

The games where I have FPS issues the 5800X3D fares much better than 5950X.

In games where I don't have FPS issues even my 3900X is fine. I know what I'm expecting for gaming.

 

I want to know ... IS the 5800X3D faster than 5950X for what I do?

Not all workloads benefit from extra cores/threads. WILL my workload benefit more from the massive cache of 5800X3D rather than from 16-croe 5950X?

 

That too but I haven't played Valheim for quite a while.

I can't find any information online regarding your specific request either. Buy one, test it and post up. If it sucks you can sell it.

[WereCat]

@Origami Cactus

@ZetZet

 

just to demonstrate quickly what I have in mind

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UwbIUM7zx4

 

[WereCat]

11 minutes ago, Slave2school said:

I can't find any information online regarding your specific request either. Buy one, test it and post up. If it sucks you can sell it.

I've only found this Phoronix review but I have no idea what are these benchmarks about. I guess many are just machine learning where the 5800X3D wins by quite a bit but no idea about the rest

 

https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-5800x3d-linux/8

 

Example where the 5800X3D beats 5950X because of VCache ... still no idea about what this benchmark is though.

 

 

edit:

GPAW is a density-functional theory (DFT) Python code based on the projector-augmented wave (PAW) method and the atomic simulation environment (ASE).

 

wish I knew how it fares in Blender too for these tasks. Simulations... at least some seem to benefit a lot from cache.

[Origami Cactus]

37 minutes ago, WereCat said:

Simulations... at least some seem to benefit a lot from cache.

Yes, physics simulations especially are much faster on the 5800x3d because of the vcache. Look at f1 2022, or asseta corsa competizone benchmarks in the 5800x3d reviews to see how much faster they are.

But that is because of the single threaded nature of those simulations, I don't know how blender smoke simulations work.

[WereCat]

34 minutes ago, Origami Cactus said:

Yes, physics simulations especially are much faster on the 5800x3d because of the vcache. Look at f1 2022, or asseta corsa competizone benchmarks in the 5800x3d reviews to see how much faster they are.

But that is because of the single threaded nature of those simulations, I don't know how blender smoke simulations work.

Guess I'll just prepare some scenes and ask people with these CPUs to run them for me... wont be a precise benchmark but it's still something.

[GeoIV]

On 10/22/2022 at 12:40 PM, WereCat said:

Guess I'll just prepare some scenes and ask people with these CPUs to run them for me... wont be a precise benchmark but it's still something.

Ever come up with an answer to your question?
I'm curious if the 3dVcache helped Blender.

[WereCat]

4 minutes ago, GeoIV said:

Ever come up with an answer to your question?
I'm curious if the 3dVcache helped Blender.

I haven't done any particular benchmarking after I grabbed the 5800X3D but when I work with dense mesh while sculpting the viewport performance leaves the 3900X in the dust, it's not even contest on how snappy and quick everything is. Obviously if you do the tile rendering on a CPU then the 5800X3D will be slower than even older Ryzen with more cores but most people just render on GPU anyways.

 

(using DynTopo for sculpting so thousands and thousands of verticies on small details)

 

Just to give an idea when I tried to highlight big chunks of the mesh of my character sculpt in Edit mode with 3900X my Blender froze for few seconds before I could do anything again. With the 5800X3D it's less than a second and almost instant. Even trying to place hair and comb it the performance is much better and it makes working with the dense mesh a breeze.

 

As I said I can't give you numbers as I was lazy enough to do precise benchmarking but the difference is very apparent at least for these kinds of workloads.

I haven't really tried to do displacements and smoke simulations for example yet, so perhaps the performance there will be hit and miss but I think at least most of the physics sims should be comparable to 3900X in performance but take this claim with a pinch of salt, I'm basing my opinion on physics CPU performance from Time Spy where the 5800X3D scored about 5% to 10% more points than my 3900X.

It really depends on how complex the simulation will be. I suspect you can expect slight time save but nothing that dramatic since mostly the sims I've dealt with in Blender were so memory heavy that I was more limited by the memory bandwidth rather than the CPU performance, this is where the extra L3 cache may help a bit but as I've said, I haven't really tried that in Blender yet.

[freeagent]

Zen 2 is very slow compared to Zen 3. You would have noticed a difference in games with pretty much any Zen 3 part. X3D is a good CPU if all you do is game. But if it were me I would have gone with the 5950X instead.

[GeoIV]

3 hours ago, WereCat said:

I haven't done any particular benchmarking...

Thanks for the info.
Will need to do some more looking into things, if Blender is sensitive to memory bandwidth. It makes me think I might go Intel, as much as the 7950x3D sounds awesome.

 

[Ripred]

hmm seems to be across the board similar experiences editing with the 5800x3d, doing editing in real time Audio/blender etc.. the cache seems to offer a benefit during the creating process, where it looses seems to be final render speed, which the importance of render speed will vary from person to person and their needs... interesting

[Mark Kaine]

On 10/22/2022 at 4:38 PM, WereCat said:

And yes, either 5800X3d or 5950X would be an upgrade from 3900X for gaming it's just that 5800X3D is much bigger upgrade for gaming while I don't know if it's an upgrade or a downgrade for what I work with.

i cant tell you about this specific thing in blender, but going from a 3600 to a 5800x3D did *not* improve my superposition score (it got actually worse lol) and neither my firestrike score, which you'd think it should since it tests both gpu and cpu (it just... kinda stayed the same)

 

but cb23 scores did improve as expected (better than in reviews even!) but overall not that much tbh...

 

im just saying for cpu intensive stuff your definitely better off with a 5900X/ 5

950X imho, because going by other cpu benchmarks that's a massive jump...

 

Sadly i didn't really do a lot of comparisons in games (i did but i couldn't really be bothered to look it up, since screenshots are buried who knows where on my computer) 

 

its also not that super useful for me personally because i strictly play at 60 or 120fps ... although playing games on rpcs3 did definitely feel a lot smoother,  but its hard to actually measure that...

 

anyway since you're also doing other stuff i really think 5900X + would be a better upgrade for you overall. 

 

*also tbf, i only really noticed after the fact, but my 3600 with pbo -200 voltage offset/ +200 frequency is a beast... it actually used a lot more power than it should (around 115w?) and got about as hot as the 5800X3D too, so its maybe not a fair comparison but overall im not super impressed with my 5800X3D *benchmarks* at all... in fact I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference (aside from cb23 where the 5800X3D is obviously faster, but not impressively so)

 

 

6 hours ago, freeagent said:

But if it were me I would have gone with the 5950X instead

Same, lol.

 

 

6 hours ago, WereCat said:

haven't done any particular benchmarking after I grabbed the 5800X3D but when I work with dense mesh while sculpting the viewport performance leaves the 3900X in the dust

ah, so you *did* see an improvement... not that surprising i guess as zen 3 is faster, but what about games did you notice a big difference?  because as said i didn't,  but i also didn't really do any extensive testing....

 

 

i gotta look for my SOTTR benchmarks with the 3600... should be somewhere! 

[WereCat]

24 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

 

 

ah, so you *did* see an improvement... not that surprising i guess as zen 3 is faster, but what about games did you notice a big difference?  because as said i didn't,  but i also didn't really do any extensive testing....

 

 

i gotta look for my SOTTR benchmarks with the 3600... should be somewhere! 

Yeah in WZ2 my 3900X was struggling to push past 120FPS. With 5800X3D I get up to 200FPS with GPU being the limit and also I rarely drop under 150FPS.

 

Kingdom Come Deliverance in Rattay I don't drop under 60FPS now and get over 100 in open world. 

 

cities skylones also around 50% improvement

[Mark Kaine]

9 minutes ago, WereCat said:

Yeah in WZ2 my 3900X was struggling to push past 120FPS. With 5800X3D I get up to 200FPS with GPU being the limit and also I rarely drop under 150FPS.

 

Kingdom Come Deliverance in Rattay I don't drop under 60FPS now and get over 100 in open world. 

 

cities skylones also around 50% improvement

Ah, ok nice. yeah i guess it depends on the games too... i mean for me its kinda hard to tell the difference between 120 and 120fps... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

but i am a bit weirded out my firestrike scores really didn't improve over the 3600... they're *the same* 

and i have only very few games i play unlocked and i haven't really tried those yet...

 

im also not finding my old SOTTR benchmarks,  must be on some backup drive i suppose!