Steam deck forum section?

[Bad5ector]

39 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Absent a subforum dedicated to a single product, the question is which category best represents that product. We also need to consider where its competitors belong like the Aya Neo, GPD Win, and Nintendo Switch to name a few. The debate then becomes whether devices such as those are considered gaming computers (PC gaming) or handheld gaming consoles (Console Gaming).

It's never as easy as it seems is it?

[Bad5ector]

57 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Windows or Linux if people are trying to install Windows on them, or different Linux distros.

Why couldn't those topics still be handled under the proposed subforums "how to install ABC OS on XYZ device". Since they require (usually) different steps to get

 

going than say your regular Desktop / Laptop. 

 

1 hour ago, IkeaGnome said:

Maybe a sub forum under console gaming.

I would suggest Mobile Gaming myself, but that is a separate debate really and I guess highlights how contentious this topic is. lol

[CerealExperimentsLain]

16 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

I don't feel a steam deck oriented sub-forum is necessary. If we went with the thought of needing one, then as pointed out by @Skiiwee29 , we would then have a hundred separate sub-forums dedicated to each of the various console and mobile devices available. 

This honestly reads like you decided 'I decided there should be no such sub-forum and now I need to invent justifications for it'.  'Then have a hundred separate sub-forums' is an absurd suggestion.  The Steam Deck is far from unique, in that it is far from the only 'Handheld Personal Computer' on the market, though it is the biggest one.  It's a specific, and newly popular, PC form factor.  You put the Steam Deck, x86 GPD win devices, AYAXNEO and any other 'PC handheld', as well as related discussions of Steam OS for handheld deployments, software hacks/tricks for improving Windows on a 'handheld' format, and all that, all in one subforum.  (Notice I'm being very specific with 'PC' and 'x86' here?)  It's nice, neat, and simple.  It's not opening the door to 'hundreds of subforums'.

 

Quote

Steam deck is mobile and is a console like device. Can be pc if setup right.

No, the Steam Deck is a PC.  A gaming desktop is a PC.  A laptop is a PC.  An x86 Surface tablet is a PC.  An x86 pfSense box is a PC.  An UnRAID machine is a PC.  A giant quad socket Xeon server with more threads than God is a PC.  And yes, the Steam Deck is a PC.

 

The cool thing about a PC is that they come in a range of form factors and can be tasked in any number of ways, while remaining a PC.  The Steam Deck is just  a PC of a specific form factor and typical use case.  It's not 'Also a mobile device' and 'Also a console', that's nonsense.  They sell laptops with LTE modems built in, it doesn't make them 'cellphones', they're still PCs.

[Bad5ector]

39 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

No, the Steam Deck is a PC.  A gaming desktop is a PC.  A laptop is a PC.  An x86 Surface tablet is a PC.  An x86 pfSense box is a PC.  An UnRAID machine is a PC.  A giant quad socket Xeon server with more threads than God is a PC.  And yes, the Steam Deck is a PC.

Couldn't agree more. But to those who haven't been playing close attention to the Steam Deck have brushed it off as such. I can assure you I wouldn't have dropped the kind of money I did on accessories if this was just a mere "mobile device". 

 

This little guy will be replacing my $5000, custom water cooled system at the next LAN I attend, pretty sure I wouldn't be saying that about a "gaming phone" or console like PS Vita and the switch. Mind you we play games that the Steam Deck can easily handle at the LANs I attend.

[Vishera]

3 hours ago, Spotty said:

Subforums are intentionally brand agnostic

You could have a Handheld sub-forum.

[CerealExperimentsLain]

3 hours ago, Bad5ector said:

This little guy will be replacing my $5000, custom water cooled system at the next LAN I attend, pretty sure I wouldn't be saying that about a "gaming phone" or console like PS Vita and the switch. Mind you we play games that the Steam Deck can easily handle at the LANs I attend.

Yup, the Steam Deck's appeal is 'It's PC gaming and other PC stuff, but freakin' handheld.  You can do it while standing in line at the airport even!'.  I wouldn't have bought a 'Steam Game Console', what I wanted was 'Computer Stuff' but 'handheld'.  I was keenly interested in all the previous devices in a similar form factor, but they we're expensive and also lacked those nifty touch pads.  The Steam Deck was the right price and it shows that the form factor 'works' if you can get the right price point.  We've seen a bunch of devices now trying to follow it's success after the showed that the form factor itself wasn't the issue.

 

But I don't think there needs to be a 'Steam Deck' sub-forum but rather a 'Handheld PC' sub-forum.  There's so many similar devices, some from before, many from after, that fit in the same line of discussion.  Valve is soon to release the 'Stand Alone' build of Steam OS allowing any of those devices to run it cleanly as well.  There's people running Windows on these devices who do tricks and hacks to make the input work nicer.   This is a topic that deserves a dedicated sub-forum where nerds can do what they do best: Focus and collect information and then put that information to work/

[Arika]

2 hours ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

But I don't think there needs to be a 'Steam Deck' sub-forum but rather a 'Handheld PC' sub-forum.  There's so many similar devices, some from before, many from after, that fit in the same line of discussion

But for what reason? What types of threads do you expect will start popping up in such a sub-forum that wouldn't be covered under a better category?

[CerealExperimentsLain]

21 minutes ago, Arika S said:

But for what reason? What types of threads do you expect will start popping up in such a sub-forum that wouldn't be covered under a better category?

 

7 hours ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

You put the Steam Deck, x86 GPD win devices, AYAXNEO and any other 'PC handheld', as well as related discussions of Steam OS for handheld deployments, software hacks/tricks for improving Windows on a 'handheld' format, and all that, all in one subforum.

Answered before you even asked.

[Arika]

35 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

 

Answered before you even asked.

so the GPD, AyaNEO oneXplayer etc devices have been out for a while, people have been getting their steam decks and this isn't exactly the first steam OS device, how many threads have we had about people asking for such assistance?

 

maybe in the future, but i don't see enough threads to justify a while new subforum.

[mr fobs]

Hello, yes I do Steam Deck, thank you.

[SansVarnic]

On 8/29/2022 at 1:45 PM, CerealExperimentsLain said:

This honestly reads like you decided 'I decided there should be no such sub-forum and now I need to invent justifications for it'.  'Then have a hundred separate sub-forums' is an absurd suggestion.  The Steam Deck is far from unique, in that it is far from the only 'Handheld Personal Computer' on the market, though it is the biggest one.  It's a specific, and newly popular, PC form factor.  You put the Steam Deck, x86 GPD win devices, AYAXNEO and any other 'PC handheld', as well as related discussions of Steam OS for handheld deployments, software hacks/tricks for improving Windows on a 'handheld' format, and all that, all in one subforum.  (Notice I'm being very specific with 'PC' and 'x86' here?)  It's nice, neat, and simple.  It's not opening the door to 'hundreds of subforums'.

 

No, the Steam Deck is a PC.  A gaming desktop is a PC.  A laptop is a PC.  An x86 Surface tablet is a PC.  An x86 pfSense box is a PC.  An UnRAID machine is a PC.  A giant quad socket Xeon server with more threads than God is a PC.  And yes, the Steam Deck is a PC.

 

The cool thing about a PC is that they come in a range of form factors and can be tasked in any number of ways, while remaining a PC.  The Steam Deck is just  a PC of a specific form factor and typical use case.  It's not 'Also a mobile device' and 'Also a console', that's nonsense.  They sell laptops with LTE modems built in, it doesn't make them 'cellphones', they're still PCs.

You read way too far into this.

[Neroon]

If we can't have a 3D Printing forum, why should we have a mobile PC forum?

[Ethnod]

On 8/29/2022 at 6:01 PM, Spotty said:

Subforums are intentionally brand agnostic, with the only exceptions being 'Windows' and 'Linux, MacOS, and everything else'. For this reason I don't foresee a dedicated "Steam Deck" subforum. 

 

Absent a subforum dedicated to a single product, the question is which category best represents that product. We also need to consider where its competitors belong like the Aya Neo, GPD Win, and Nintendo Switch to name a few. The debate then becomes whether devices such as those are considered gaming computers (PC gaming) or handheld gaming consoles (Console Gaming).

I'll raise this internally with the moderation team to discuss but it will also be helpful knowing what category the community in general considers those types of products to fall under, as it should be intuitive for people to find.

I completely understand and agree that forum sections and sub-forums should be brand agnostic. Obviously Windows, Linux & MacOS are the exception here unfortunately but outside of them it really should be neutral. 

 

I've been reading the discussion and thinking on this hard and I've come to the conclusion that handheld gaming is a section on to itself, there is no denying it. The question for the mods now is, is there enough traffic within this forum to justify its own forum section within Video games? And if not, should a date be set to review this in the future?

Valve are pushing their OS hard, expanding to Desktop and other handhelds and honestly I think in 5 years there will be a need for a SteamOS sub-forum along side Windows, Linux & MacOS but putting that aside, between the Steam Deck, Aya Neo, GPD Win & Switch (and more) this category will only grow and if there is not a need/volume of discussion now, there will be. 

[LogicalDrm]

5 hours ago, Neroon said:

If we can't have a 3D Printing forum, why should we have a mobile PC forum?

Do those threads drown out all others in Hobby Electronics subforum? I usually visit there to give these "why not X subforum" threads some comparison, and it hasn't yet looked like there would be any constant surge of only 3D printing threads in there.

[Neroon]

8 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

Do those threads drown out all others in Hobby Electronics subforum? I usually visit there to give these "why not X subforum" threads some comparison, and it hasn't yet looked like there would be any constant surge of only 3D printing threads in there.

No I don't think so, but I think people just go somewhere else for it. Not saying it's own forum would get people really engaging, but right now people seem to barely post at all about it, and I can only assume plenty of people have them or are interested in them.

 

It's a shame that LTT doesn't try more to get people interested in them. We see Alex create some stuff, and he is being way overhyped with his supposed skills, and they constantly get massive failures, making people ptobably think this is all super hard.

[CerealExperimentsLain]

1 hour ago, Neroon said:

No I don't think so, but I think people just go somewhere else for it. Not saying it's own forum would get people really engaging, but right now people seem to barely post at all about it, and I can only assume plenty of people have them or are interested in them.

This is def part of it.  The mods take a stance of 'We don't see a whole lot of Steam Deck/Handheld PC posts so there's no need for a Steam Deck/Handheld PC subforum' but if there's no useful place for a lot of Steam Deck/Handheld PC discussion, then those discussions will go to other places on the internet.  The same def applies to 3D Printers.

[Spotty]

30 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

This is def part of it.  The mods take a stance of 'We don't see a whole lot of Steam Deck/Handheld PC posts so there's no need for a Steam Deck/Handheld PC subforum' but if there's no useful place for a lot of Steam Deck/Handheld PC discussion, then those discussions will go to other places on the internet.  The same def applies to 3D Printers.

There is definitely a chicken or egg element to it. Giving a dedicated section for it might increase activity ("Build it and they will come"), however there's also the risk that moving to a dedicated subforum will result in a decrease in activity. If there's not much activity people will stop checking that section on the forum, threads will go longer without replies, and people will eventually stop trying to have those discussions because they see little activity.

 

I had a look through the forum for posts related to the Steam Deck since it was announced almost 14 months ago. In that time there's been approximately 80 threads (550 posts) that would fit in to a Handheld Gaming section. That works out to be around 1 thread every 5 days. I also checked some of the Steam Deck competitors and that adds maybe another dozen threads in that time period.

 

When adding new subforums we also have to be mindful not to bloat the forum with unnecessary or redundant subforums. By redundant or unnecessary I mean we could have separate subforums for CPUs, Motherboards, and Memory, but if what motherboard or what memory somebody buys relies on what CPU they buy then having the same discussion in 3 different subforums isn't helpful. With a Handheld gaming subforum a lot of discussion would overlap with PC Gaming, like people asking if their handheld can run certain games or asking for recommendations on what games to play.

 

While it may seem that the default answer to new subforums is no we're not actually trying to shut down suggestions for new subforums, it's just that there's a lot of consideration that goes in to it before adding new subforums.

 

Anyway, nothing has been decided or ruled out at this stage. I'm still keeping an eye on the thread for people's feedback and we (moderators) are still discussing where Steam Deck/Handheld discussion should go or if we should add a new subforum for it.

[LogicalDrm]

3 hours ago, Neroon said:

No I don't think so, but I think people just go somewhere else for it. Not saying it's own forum would get people really engaging, but right now people seem to barely post at all about it, and I can only assume plenty of people have them or are interested in them.

 

It's a shame that LTT doesn't try more to get people interested in them. We see Alex create some stuff, and he is being way overhyped with his supposed skills, and they constantly get massive failures, making people ptobably think this is all super hard.

 

2 hours ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

This is def part of it.  The mods take a stance of 'We don't see a whole lot of Steam Deck/Handheld PC posts so there's no need for a Steam Deck/Handheld PC subforum' but if there's no useful place for a lot of Steam Deck/Handheld PC discussion, then those discussions will go to other places on the internet.  The same def applies to 3D Printers.

You are both looking this from angle where dedicated and named place would automatically bring in more discussion. Where in reality that rarely happens. I, and maybe the rest of the moderation, are looking this from another angle. There needs to be shown interest and content to generate more content.

 

That said, I'm not opposed adding handheld specific sub. I actually wouldn't be that much opposed for retro specific sub either (pre-2000 hardware, games and projects) since those have had more content on forums by couple of active members, and Anthony. We could do that just to celebrate C64...

 

3D Printing and VR haven't popped up that much in recent years.

[Neroon]

1 hour ago, LogicalDrm said:

 

You are both looking this from angle where dedicated and named place would automatically bring in more discussion. Where in reality that rarely happens. I, and maybe the rest of the moderation, are looking this from another angle. There needs to be shown interest and content to generate more content.

 

That said, I'm not opposed adding handheld specific sub. I actually wouldn't be that much opposed for retro specific sub either (pre-2000 hardware, games and projects) since those have had more content on forums by couple of active members, and Anthony. We could do that just to celebrate C64...

 

3D Printing and VR haven't popped up that much in recent years.

Honestly my argument was more that 3D printing is more deserving imo. 3D printing is a complete own hobby in itself and fairly large in the PC enthusiast community.

While I absolutely believe PC handhelds is the same in that, I still see them as PC's. They have their OS, they have their hardware, but everything else is completely standard.

 

To be clear, I wouldn't be opposed to it, if enough people want it, why would I care. But personally I see most messages about them to also fit other PC sections or the one for laptops and all (docks, eGPU etc)

 

3D printing is a massive subject, and could be combined with 3D modeling etc, and I expect this to only get bigger over time.

[LogicalDrm]

7 minutes ago, Neroon said:

Honestly my argument was more that 3D printing is more deserving imo. 3D printing is a complete own hobby in itself and fairly large in the PC enthusiast community.

While I absolutely believe PC handhelds is the same in that, I still see them as PC's. They have their OS, they have their hardware, but everything else is completely standard.

 

To be clear, I wouldn't be opposed to it, if enough people want it, why would I care. But personally I see most messages about them to also fit other PC sections or the one for laptops and all (docks, eGPU etc)

 

3D printing is a massive subject, and could be combined with 3D modeling etc, and I expect this to only get bigger over time.

So your point is that its not actual part of this forum that is centered around tech? We offer subforums for those subjects that have connection to tech, and rest of the subjects are down in Off Topic. There are actual communities for making, 3D printing and stuff around that genre of hobbies, but since this forum is strongly focused on tech, having strongly non-tech subforum doesn't make much sense.

[Neroon]

7 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

So your point is that its not actual part of this forum that is centered around tech? We offer subforums for those subjects that have connection to tech, and rest of the subjects are down in Off Topic. There are actual communities for making, 3D printing and stuff around that genre of hobbies, but since this forum is strongly focused on tech, having strongly non-tech subforum doesn't make much sense.

Huh. Not sure what you mean here?

 

Both are about tech, both are fine on this forum. I see handheld PC's not as something that needs it own section, since that stuff can be easily covered in the various specific sections.

 

3D printing imo is a big enough subject to have it's own section, though I understand that if interest is low, it doesn't make that much sense.

[CerealExperimentsLain]

2 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

That said, I'm not opposed adding handheld specific sub. I actually wouldn't be that much opposed for retro specific sub either (pre-2000 hardware, games and projects) since those have had more content on forums by couple of active members, and Anthony. We could do that just to celebrate C64...

 

3D Printing and VR haven't popped up that much in recent years.

Truth be told, I have plenty I'd add to a 'retro computing' subforum, having built both a 'High End' Windows 9X and XP machine and done my share of tinkering.  I've made a thread on one machine there's no real good place for the topic here so I take those discussions elsewhere.

[Arika]

6 hours ago, Neroon said:

3D printing imo is a big enough subject to have it's own section, though I understand that if interest is low, it doesn't make that much sense.

Looking through the forum history, we only get maybe 2-3 threads a month that are actually about 3d printing as the main topic.

[Neroon]

23 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Looking through the forum history, we only get maybe 2-3 threads a month that are actually about 3d printing as the main topic.

I don't post anything really, whereas I would love to see an active community for that. I'm sure there are many others like me, who just believes that LTT doesn't really care about 3D printers, and I should look elsewhere.

[Arika]

29 minutes ago, Neroon said:

I don't post anything really, whereas I would love to see an active community for that. I'm sure there are many others like me, who just believes that LTT doesn't really care about 3D printers, and I should look elsewhere.

subforums don't create communities. Communities create subforums.