Jump to content

Mass outrage as VrChat introduces Epic Game's Easy anti-cheat to block all mods including ones required for people with accessibility needs.

Go to solution Solved by Requi,

I'm one of the mod developers for the VRCMG (VRChat Modding Group) and I want to shed some light into this situation.

Modding has always been against the Terms of Service of VRChat but they kind off let it slide if you weren't being a dick about it. Over the past 2 years the game has grown a lot thanks to the lockdowns and affordable headsets. With that the modding community also grew a ton. Mods from the VRCMG were always about fixing problems in the game, introducing Quality of Life improvements, adding new features that just aren't/weren't in the game yet and most importantly fix security vulnerabilities like specific avatar crashers or network based crashers/laggers.

The VRCMG has always been about open-source accessible and safe-to-use mods. Every mod there is inspected by trusted members of the team to make sure that no malicious or harmful code makes it out into the public. And this has been working for the past 2 years.

 

There is a minority of people that use modding just to be toxic nuisances that want to ruin others people experience in VRChat for reasons unknown. They will buy closed-source obfuscated mods that contain malicious/toxic features.
Usually those mods also contain code from the VRCMG without disclosing that they are, but that's another story.

 

VRChat obviously wants to combat that minority, but this isn't the way to do it. They've been ignoring year old issues that have been fixed by mods for a while.
And with EAC in place those mods won't be usable anymore. We have no intent of playing the cat-and-mouse game because it just doesn't make sense.

Malicious mods will continue to exist, because they are closed source and they have the funds to buy bypasses for EAC because they make a profit off of the mods they made.
 

So everyone will lose their QoL features and their protection against crashers while malicious users (even without mods by just using crasher avatars) continue to roam public instances.
 

Whoever has made that decision at VRChat seems to be so out of touch with the community, that they don't understand how big the modding community is and that they need them.

 

Some members of the VRCMG team have also prepared a document which further explains what EAC will do and doesn't do:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tpF-zAvLCCPnmpMcmEUvHe_47M1F8ZLYSI3W4II0Z2s/

Posted (edited)

 

Summary

 

The developers of VrChat, Are introducing Epic game's Easy Anti-Cheat in hopes to solve the issue of user harassment, account theft and malicious attacks caused by modded clients. Since the announcement the steam page has been badly reviewed by 12k users due to the removal of mods that improved the overall games functionality, accessibility, and adaptability.  
image.png.ee296815135c8157279ead962a85a630.png

 

Malicious attacks
"Malicious modified clients allow users to attack and harass others, causing a huge amount of moderation issues."
"Every month, thousands of users have their accounts stolen, often due to running a modified client that is silently logging their keystrokes as well as other information. These users – often without even realizing it! – run the risk of losing their account, or having their computers become part of a larger botnet." - VRChat team [5]

 

  • "It does not solve ripping or crasher avatars. It probably won't stop malicious mods, as they're way smaller and can evade anti-cheat easier. Nor do they open source their code, meaning you never really know what you are running, and risk getting your account stolen, or worse.  However, it prevents you from having unlimited avatar favourites. It prevents you from using anti-crash mods. It prevents you from using all other mod features you've come to enjoy. It prevents you from using safe, open-source mods that never made anyone's experience worse." -emmVRC team [1]

 

 

  • "Some of VRChat's problems (avatar ripping, crashing) have nothing to do with client mods. It's exceedingly easy to do both without mods. In fact, wholesome mods are used to prevent crashing and make ripping harder. All EAC does in this case is make people crash more due to lack of protections." -Leading feedback post on Vrchats website [2]

 

  • "For VRChat, this means that malicious mods will still exist and be used to annoy people in publics. Closed source mods can circumvent anti-cheat without the exploit being detected, while open-source mods can't play the cat-and-mouse game due to the source-code being publicly available, which in effect will ban wholesome mods and allow malicious mods." -VRCMG (VRChat modding group) [3]

 

image.png.9db5c5b33e1005d5235e7423da541d1c.png

 

Future of VRChat
"Finally, we’re aware that many legitimate users install modifications to add features they wish VRChat had natively. We're very aware of the popularity of these modifications, and we’re aware that EAC means those modifications are gone, too. As such, we've been working towards native implementations of features like a main menu that's usable even when you're lying down, a portable mirror that you can use to calibrate your full-body tracking (or provide a face-cam), and more – all planned for upcoming releases. " - VRChat team [5]

 

  • "VRChat has been historically slow at adding features. You promise mod features "soon" but people can have them now, via mods. It's very likely that "soon" in this case will be either "years",  or "never" for more niche features or features that don't align with your team's grand vision. To this day IK2 is far from perfect (people still use you-know-what), avatar favorites are pitifully limited, and most mod features are not even mentioned anywhere, with their canny posts lying forgotten and buried." -Leading feedback post on Vrchats website [2]

 

 

 

 

 

My thoughts

There are so many issues with with implementation
the mods:
-optimise the game making it able to run on most systems.
-add linux support

-adds support for devices like face tracking, haptic vests, haptic gloves, xbox Kinect full body tracking and accessibility devices.
-text to speach for the deaf

-reducing the audable distance of players for the hard of hearing.
-prevent malicious attacks

 

Users are complaining that the mods actually reduce the malicious attacks by blocking avatars that are made to crash the game.
Vrchat are saying that they are going to add some features back to the game, but knowing there track record this may take years or even never happen.


Sources
[1]emmVRC team comment:
image.thumb.png.9c982281621c5791e1cf44f3e7a33142.png

 

[2]Most trending feedback form on vrc's feedback page:
https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves

[3]VRCMG's response document:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tpF-zAvLCCPnmpMcmEUvHe_47M1F8ZLYSI3W4II0Z2s/edit

 

[4]Most helpful steam review:
https://steamcommunity.com/id/Zullfix/recommended/438100/

 

[5]VRChat blog on the security update: (Has Been modified as of recent)

https://hello.vrchat.com/blog/vrchat-security-update
 

Steam page for reviews:


Update:
VRC Team have released a new discord announcement addressing the feedback



"Let's follow that up with the hard part: we are going to be releasing this update, and we do not have plans or intent to revert or roll it back."
"Our first priority for these changes is addressing several accessibility concerns in VRChat. We've got an internal list of improvements we can implement quickly and are fast-tracking it through our production and implementation process. We will be posting more information about those changes tomorrow." -VRChat Team


Seems like they understand the accessibility concerns yet are continuing to release the update anyway. Even if they put all the efforts towards "fast tracking" It seems like a waste of efforts considering its already been made by someone else. Its also hard to believe that they will be able to replicate all the mods and will probably only tackle the main ones leaving some people in the dark still.

image.thumb.png.6e3f7528939c11aefcccbf06f89b205a.png

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jamie Stewart
VRChat official update
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Jamie Stewart said:

 

Summary

 

The developers of VrChat, Are introducing Epic game's Easy Anti-Cheat in hopes to solve the issue of user harassment, account theft and malicious attacks caused by modded clients. Since the announcement the steam page has been review bombed by 12k users due to the removal of mods that improved the overall games functionality, accessibility, and adaptability.  
image.png.ee296815135c8157279ead962a85a630.png

Quotes

 

My thoughts

There are so many issues with with implementation
the mods:
-optimise the game making it able to run on most systems.
-add linux support

-adds support for devices like face tracking, haptic vests, haptic gloves, xbox Kinect full body tracking and accessibility devices.
-text to speach for the deaf

-reducing the audable distance of players for the hard of hearing.
-prevent malicious attacks

 

Users are complaining that the mods actually reduce the malicious attacks by blocking avatars that are made to crash the game.
Vrchat are saying that they are going to add some features back to the game, but knowing there track record this may take years or even never happen.
 

The best way of looking through these issues are going through some of the more civil steam reviews.

Sources

 

VRChat blog on the security update:

https://hello.vrchat.com/blog/vrchat-security-update
 

Steam page:


 

 

 

The mods they are probably after are the ones that allow end users to rip other players avatars. This has been such a huge problem that, you can almost guarantee that if your model is not a stock model VRChat came with, and you went into a public lobby, some kiddie probably already stole it.

 

If VRChat is hellbent on stopping modding, they should address the key things solved by accessibility mods, which is what other MMO games already do.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never played the game before, but how exactly do you cheat in that game? Afaik it's just people talking to each other with character models 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, 8tg said:

SecondLife once again remains the most free open world.

 

Now if only the user base wasn’t all boomers


Are you suggesting that VRChat is actually any better in terms of going full on booming and Nissan Zooming though? 🙂

This is the last thing I'd do with a VR kit when there are so many titles that are way better than non-VR games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Ryuikko said:

I've never played the game before, but how exactly do you cheat in that game? Afaik it's just people talking to each other with character models 

There are multiple ways to "cheat".

I haven't played for years but from what I remember this is a huge issue for VR users.

 

There are things to cause discomfort in VR by affecting your vision. Some of these may trigger motion sickness and epilepsy seizure quite easily if the user suffers from this.

Stealing avatars counts as well. 

Forcing the user to crash from the game.

Circumventing filters set by players (no custom avatars, no "contact", etc...)

Getting to private lobbies.

and so on

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, WereCat said:

There are things to cause discomfort in VR by affecting your vision. Some of these may trigger motion sickness and epilepsy seizure quite easily if the user suffers from this.


Stealing avatars counts as well. 

Forcing the user to crash from the game.

Circumventing filters set by players (no custom avatars, no "contact", etc...)

Getting to private lobbies.

and so on

There's also a variety of popular NSFW mods that are against the ToS as well. Yet, surprisingly, ERP is not banned.

PLEASE QUOTE ME IF YOU ARE REPLYING TO ME

Desktop Build: Ryzen 7 1800X @ 4.0GHz, AsRock Fatal1ty X370 Professional Gaming, 32GB Corsair DDR4 @ 3000MHz, RX5700 XT 8GB Sapphire Nitro+, Benq XL2730 1440p 144Hz FS

Retro Build: Intel Pentium III @ 500 MHz, Dell Optiplex G1 Full AT Tower, 768MB SDRAM @ 133MHz, Integrated Graphics, Generic 1024x768 60Hz Monitor


 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah yes "harassment", videogame "developers" seem to love that little word nowadays.

Have you ever read the ToS on games like these? even logging in is practically harassment at this point.

 

btw Epic/EAC = Chinese (computer) Virus

Tender is the night

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

And the best part is: EAC won't do anything in reality.

 

Those who really want to run malicious mods and have the skills to make them will take EAC as a challenge. EAC may also be a nice invite for even more skilled and malicious "modders" just because the game is free and the challenge is there to take and the most delicious fruit is to disable the whole EAC in a way that works in other games too.

 

Avatar stealing? FFS, EAC against that is same as you would put money in a envelope and write "definedly not money envelope, don't steal" on it. Or actually even less because EAC doesn't include encrypting files so the cache is still unprotected and I will just take your avatar from my cache even if it meant to take a complete copy out of my cache and spent time to find your avatar. The moment your custom avatar flashes to my screen, it is mine to take and EAC can't do anything for that.

 

Stop malicious behavior? Like how? Will the EAC automatic police come and arrest me if I stick my hands inside of someones head without their agreement? What part of EAC does that? It can stop me from using OpenVR Advanced Settings and limit my use of mods but there's nothing it can do for my behavior.

 

"It will simplify our support and development". Well it will limit mods but now you also get the kids asking why your POS doesn't work on their PC because EAC is far from the least broken systems and is pretty well known to empty it's bowels, and often your PCs bowels as well, if the Windows doesn't start exactly right. And with VR where hacking the drivers of things to make them do something else than they normally do is pretty much integral part of the hobby (like flashing Vive Tracker with controller firmware to make it MR camera tracker or just use the Vive wireless adapter from Intel which in itself isn't made with the most christian method to achieve such a device), yeah, this also means the EAC won't be happy.

 

-----

 

Most likely the whole reason for this is some kind of new round for funding. most likely they are going to release something along the lines of "metaverse" with NFTs and whole bunch of other fancy trigger words for extra cash from investors stupid enough to fall for such an easy to evade ditch. But for that to work, they really need to strengthen their defenses and turn, well the more often visited wild west side of VRChat into something less wild west. It's kind of hard to sell NFT metaverse while there's a 14 years old with ADHD running around sounding like the Woody the Woodpecker in Batman avatar and transforming in a second to Hulk, kind of doesn't give the right vibe for anything seriously taken NFT stuff and more gives vibes for "copy-paste" NFT pissing off. They probably would also love that they would get more AltspaceVR feel to their platform to gain money from the big players who today do care about their public image quite a lot and to do that, they need to get the VRChat players out of the platform because reason why VRChat became a thing and AltspaceVR stayed behind was the lawless nature of VRChat and the playerbase does show that.

To name something VRChat probably is trying to get to fund them, their old biggest funder, HTC. HTC probably isn't going to fund the platform VRChat has been the last years just because it kind of seems like a big problem for public image and they probably would be way happier to spent that money to speed the development of their own NFT based "metaverse" that they seem to be very happy to advertise. Not to even include every other bigger tech company is probably also developing their own with more or less NFTs so funding others isn't high on their priority list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Man the VRChat community is taking this HARD.

 

Multiple devs and staff have been doxx'd.

 

Geez

PLEASE QUOTE ME IF YOU ARE REPLYING TO ME

Desktop Build: Ryzen 7 1800X @ 4.0GHz, AsRock Fatal1ty X370 Professional Gaming, 32GB Corsair DDR4 @ 3000MHz, RX5700 XT 8GB Sapphire Nitro+, Benq XL2730 1440p 144Hz FS

Retro Build: Intel Pentium III @ 500 MHz, Dell Optiplex G1 Full AT Tower, 768MB SDRAM @ 133MHz, Integrated Graphics, Generic 1024x768 60Hz Monitor


 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm one of the mod developers for the VRCMG (VRChat Modding Group) and I want to shed some light into this situation.

Modding has always been against the Terms of Service of VRChat but they kind off let it slide if you weren't being a dick about it. Over the past 2 years the game has grown a lot thanks to the lockdowns and affordable headsets. With that the modding community also grew a ton. Mods from the VRCMG were always about fixing problems in the game, introducing Quality of Life improvements, adding new features that just aren't/weren't in the game yet and most importantly fix security vulnerabilities like specific avatar crashers or network based crashers/laggers.

The VRCMG has always been about open-source accessible and safe-to-use mods. Every mod there is inspected by trusted members of the team to make sure that no malicious or harmful code makes it out into the public. And this has been working for the past 2 years.

 

There is a minority of people that use modding just to be toxic nuisances that want to ruin others people experience in VRChat for reasons unknown. They will buy closed-source obfuscated mods that contain malicious/toxic features.
Usually those mods also contain code from the VRCMG without disclosing that they are, but that's another story.

 

VRChat obviously wants to combat that minority, but this isn't the way to do it. They've been ignoring year old issues that have been fixed by mods for a while.
And with EAC in place those mods won't be usable anymore. We have no intent of playing the cat-and-mouse game because it just doesn't make sense.

Malicious mods will continue to exist, because they are closed source and they have the funds to buy bypasses for EAC because they make a profit off of the mods they made.
 

So everyone will lose their QoL features and their protection against crashers while malicious users (even without mods by just using crasher avatars) continue to roam public instances.
 

Whoever has made that decision at VRChat seems to be so out of touch with the community, that they don't understand how big the modding community is and that they need them.

 

Some members of the VRCMG team have also prepared a document which further explains what EAC will do and doesn't do:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tpF-zAvLCCPnmpMcmEUvHe_47M1F8ZLYSI3W4II0Z2s/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

They probably would also love that they would get more AltspaceVR feel to their platform to gain money from the big players who today do care about their public image quite a lot and to do that, they need to get the VRChat players out of the platform because reason why VRChat became a thing and AltspaceVR stayed behind was the lawless nature of VRChat and the playerbase does show that.

 

Nah.

Altspace is just an ugly wannabe vr-chat.

 

I watched a streamer who regularly uses VRchat, watch a video on altspace and basically every second comment was  "why would you do/want that?"

 

- It's ugly

- It emphasizes using your own face on stock bean shaped models

- it literately looks like "VR"  was expected to look like from 1997

- Even secondlife wasn't this ugly.

 

Secondlife has consent issues, and it's that core problem why it's a banned game on streaming services. No consent, and a culture built around ERP.

 

VRChat, has ERP, but it's pretty much hidden, and anyone who streams it, likely gets banned from both their stream platform and the VRChat service.

 

I doubt VRchat cares about altspace, and altspace only wishes it could have VRchat's userbase.

 

What I expect, is there is probably a pressure to monetize VRchat, which will cause:

- people to dump the service. Remember onlyfans? Remember tumblr? If you don't know who your core user is, you probably should step down

- people to doubledown on modding, because when has any anti-cheat ever stopped anyone from modding anything.

- VRChat doesn't even require a VR headset to use, which is why it has an audience beyond just "VR" kit users.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, 8tg said:

SecondLife once again remains the most free open world.

 

Now if only the user base wasn’t all boomers

Fwiw, I don't know a single actual boomer that plays online PC games.

They just play those simple phone games.

Or by boomer, do you just mean everybody older than you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Bryan-10EC said:

Fwiw, I don't know a single actual boomer that plays online PC games.

They just play those simple phone games.

Or by boomer, do you just mean everybody older than you?

Nitpick: Boomer's are either "Baby boomer" or "echo boomer", no context is ever given to distinguish the two. Those born between 1946 and 1964, basically everyone over the age of 60, are Boomers. Echo boomers are millennials. Those born after 1981-5, but before 1995-7.

 

So a boomer can pretty much refer to anyone over the age of 25 that isn't 40-56 (gen X.) But as far as lingo is concerned "boomer" is a derogatory slang used by those under the age of 25 to refer to anyone older than them, almost entirely in the context of social media, because those over the age of 40 almost certainly doesn't use social media, or doesn't understand things like Twitter, Tumblr or Tiktok, and smartphones.

 

So yeah. Basically Gen Z's (those born after 1997) basically never knew a world without computers or cell phones, or internet.

 

My parents, and their siblings played computer games, console games, or mobile phone games. So no, "boomers"  play games. Do they play online games? Not usually. Most people over the age of 40 aren't interested in playing with people who could be the same age as their own kids if they have any. A lot of that has to do with the fear of being labeled a groomer if they play in the same spaces that 13 year olds play in that aren't their own kids. Boomers, if they play any online games at all, likely play WoW or FFXIV, not VR Chat.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Jamie Stewart said:

 

 

 

Since the announcement the steam page has been review bombed by 12k users due to the removal of mods that improved the overall games functionality, accessibility, and adaptability. 
 

 

 

It's not review bombing when it's a legitimate complaint about the software that's being reviewed. The term review bombing has become too overused and minimises legitimate complaints.

 

To my mind, review bombing is when a developer makes some unpopular statement or an announcement about an upcoming game for example, and people make false reviews on that developers other products to protest against them, that's review bombing.

 

Leaving negative reviews about the actual product affected by a bad change is just user agency at work, and one of the few things customers have left.

Athan is pronounced like Nathan without the N. <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Athan Immortal said:

It's not review bombing when it's a legitimate complaint about the software that's being reviewed. The term review bombing has become too overused and minimises legitimate complaints.

 

To my mind, review bombing is when a developer makes some unpopular statement or an announcement about an upcoming game for example, and people make false reviews on that developers other products to protest against them, that's review bombing.

 

Leaving negative reviews about the actual product affected by a bad change is just user agency at work, and one of the few things customers have left.

Here is the 'official' definition (this seems to fall within this):

"A review bomb is an Internet phenomenon where a large number of people—or in other cases, a few people with multiple accounts—leave negative user reviews online. The target can be a published work, a business, a product, or a service, and review bombs are made in an attempt to harm its sales or popularity."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, ouroesa said:

Here is the 'official' definition (this seems to fall within this):

"A review bomb is an Internet phenomenon where a large number of people—or in other cases, a few people with multiple accounts—leave negative user reviews online. The target can be a published work, a business, a product, or a service, and review bombs are made in an attempt to harm its sales or popularity."

 

28 minutes ago, Athan Immortal said:

It's not review bombing when it's a legitimate complaint about the software that's being reviewed. The term review bombing has become too overused and minimises legitimate complaints.

 

To my mind, review bombing is when a developer makes some unpopular statement or an announcement about an upcoming game for example, and people make false reviews on that developers other products to protest against them, that's review bombing.

 

Leaving negative reviews about the actual product affected by a bad change is just user agency at work, and one of the few things customers have left.


Thanks for the feedback... This has now been corrected

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Altspace is just an ugly wannabe vr-chat.

I wouldn't say that.

 

Is it ugly, fuck yeah. Is it boring, double down on that. Is it wannabe for the platform that it basicly gave birth to, definedly no.

 

Pretty much the same differences are still between these two as they were back in 2017 when VRChat launched (Altspace started in 2015). While Altspace actually has developers behind it who at least have tried to stay on top of the tech and support whatever you can get and half of the stuff you cannot get and quarter the stuff you made by yourself (back then Altspace supported more stuff than anything, mocap suits were on the list, Leap Motion hand tracking was almost right out-of-the-box, Vive trackers, almsot anything more or less a product), VRChat just threw the client out and left it there for players to do everything. While VRChat decided to go more non-moderated and user moderated route, Altspace is still highly moderated platform and that heavily affected the audience each got and moderation probably is a huge reason why Altspace becane boring minority platform while, if we want to be nasty, VRChat became the VRChan with some place trying to be more serious but mostly it's just /b/ in different forms.

 

Reasons why VRChat probably would like to become more Altspace: Money. Wanna guess which one brings more money to the owners: being owned by Microsoft and hosting surprisingly high-profile events (comparing to the general gaming world) from time to time or selling premium access and being the cesspool of the VR world? If you need outside funding for growing or whatever that you cannot directly fund yourself, it's probably better that you can say you have co-operated with Paris fashion show and the Burning Man festival and had stand-up nights hosted by Reggie Watts than that pretty much the biggest thing you have managed to do has been the infestation of Ugandan Knuckles.

 

But this is like comparing Teams to Discord and pondering why Thotch users don't use Teams. I don't even think either one of VRChat and Altspace are even seeing the other as a competitor because way different target audience, business design and aim of the platform. They are similar mostly because in the beginning both were VR platforms and pretty much the highly moderated environment of Altspace gave opportunity for the VRChat.

 

Pretty much only reason I took Altspace in to the topic is that most often when some platform or service does complete 180-turn in their way of doing things is money and only thing Altspace doesn't need is money while I believe VRChats Series D funding has pretty much melted (they collected $80M to fund their own digital economy, as in cryptocurrency, in mid-2021). And I believe getting more after a bit of exposure in the start of this year probably isn't easy without first trying to clear up the atmosphere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

there was no reason to indtroduce this in the first place you cant "Cheat" in VR Chat. also EAC is a horrible piece of software and they screwed over people with Disabilities, less powerful systems and people who make content in VR Chat, also the ones playing on Linux, i wish these devs a world of major Inconveniences for doing something so reckless and Dumb. they have no community now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Requi said:

-snip-

Would it be possible for modders to contact the devs and get the most impactful mods integrated into the game?

 

I feel like they really should have done that a long time ago. At least with the quality of life and accessibility mods.

Make sure to quote or tag people, so they get notified.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Cyberspirit said:

Would it be possible for modders to contact the devs and get the most impactful mods integrated into the game?

 

I feel like they really should have done that a long time ago. At least with the quality of life and accessibility mods.

i don't think there's ever gonna be a chance, they never did any of this despite saying they would 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Thaldor said:

I wouldn't say that.

 

Is it ugly, fuck yeah. Is it boring, double down on that. Is it wannabe for the platform that it basicly gave birth to, definedly no.

 

Meta Horizon Worlds:

meta horizon worlds personal boundary

 

Altspace (from Microsoft website):

Customizing your avartar in Altspace

 

VRchat (only one example https://vrchat.readyplayer.me/ ):

image.thumb.png.2ffdef6407d93eec2e2928449280f6f8.png

 

Which one of these appeals to the person who likes to customize the crap out of their character? VR Chat, by miles.

 

Altspace and Horizon worlds, I've seen more customization in 18 year old MMORPG games. What about what the worlds look like? Well hell if I know, all the videos I see of both Altspace and Horizon world are either marketing or "influencer" people chatting in dark "club" or "bar" environments, no lower-body, basically a bean. 

 

Of the stuff I've seen VR Chat streamers play, complete copies of Disneyland, escape rooms, virtual Taco Bell's, and lots of generally random environments. Like whatever VR Chat is doing, it's been generally on the right path.

 

If it's rolling out EAC because of some pressure by a third party, well, I'm sorry, but VR Chat will never be a monetization platform like Horizon Worlds shamelessly is, which is something that Second Life did first. Every time you fail to learn from the past, you're doomed to repeat the same mistakes, yet again.

 

That is why myspace and tumblr died. They were acquired by completely inept companies, who didn't know what they had, and then promptly run into the ground in an attempt to monetize it by kicking off the "brand unsafe" content.

 

At some point we are just going to have to admit that rampant copyright violation and ERP are just things people want in shared spaces, because the users treat them like real world shared spaces and these companies are just going to keep cooking their golden gooses of platforms instead of feeding it the right food to make it lay eggs.

 

While I don't see VR Chat backpeddling on EAC, I do see them likely partitioning the platform in a way to move "high level mods, ERP, and other consent/harassment" to servers that don't run EAC, and leave the EAC on for worlds that are designated as "safe for everyone"

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Cyberspirit said:

Would it be possible for modders to contact the devs and get the most impactful mods integrated into the game?

 

I feel like they really should have done that a long time ago. At least with the quality of life and accessibility mods.

There have been talks between some of the VRCMG modders and the dev team before. They didn't go anywhere.
They're just so out of touch with their own community, that they don't understand what people want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Requi said:

There have been talks between some of the VRCMG modders and the dev team before. They didn't go anywhere.
They're just so out of touch with their own community, that they don't understand what people want.

Damn shame. Here's hoping that all this controversy makes them reconsider it.

Make sure to quote or tag people, so they get notified.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

-snip-

That's what makes it the best of the bunch. But still risky investment option as it's more in the grey zone and even it needs money to keep the lights on. Not to mention the $80M they did get last year that quadrupled their investment income and it would be stupid to not think that doesn't affect their decisions.

 

And before you say they are out of touch, every bigger company is completely and utterly out of touch when it comes to anything touching VR. Pretty much currently the trend is, a VR game is announced of a big franchise by a big company and they are going to sink money in it like trash, when the game releases it's going to suck and let everyone down. The only exception so far seems to be HL:Alyx, but everything else from AMC's Walking Dead: Onslaught to Warhammer 40K: Battle Sisters to whatever crap Bethesda did have been extremely far from what should be expected from a VR game. As in someone with way too much money on the line decided it would be "fun" and "good" to make a timed reload that happens from a press of a button instead of player manually sticking a magazine to a gun in a VR title released in 2021 and a bunch of people with tech business background (basicly representing 100% of big VR funding) decided that game was so great it got to be a finalist for "VR game of the year" award and their other finalists weren't any better... That is how out of touch the business side in VR is from what users want.

Spoiler

The game was Zombieland VR: Headshot Fever and for comparison Steam Awards VR Game of the Year 2021 was Cooking Simulator VR that wasn't even a finalist in aixr VR awards 2021, but hey! 2 Star Wars games and Doom VR game did make it to the final so they must have some sniff! Or not, Star Wars Squadrons isn't really the most enjoyable VR experience, at least if you put Elite: Dangerous right next to it, the Star Wars Tales from the Galaxy's Edge is hardly even a game and as "VR experience" short and not really impressive. And the Doom game...... ... .... Doom 3: VR Edition for PSVR, do I need to even say more?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


×