Friend didn't need his EVGA queue spot anymore, so he SOLD it to me. I'm judging him hard. Are my moral standards too high?

[Eiri]

tl;dr: Friend charged me $100 for his EVGA queue spot. I didn't say anything, but I respect him way less now. Am I being unreasonable?

 

A week ago or so, I found a 3070 Ti, new in box, for MSRP, with free shipping, on eBay. Considering eBay's cut and the cost of shipping, it was highly suspicious.

 

But regardless, I took a chance and ordered it, because I trust eBay to have my back if I receive a brick in a box. That card in uncertain and will take a month to get to me.

 

In contrast, a few days later, a friend of mine messages me. It's someone I no longer hang out with, but we occasionally chat and are in good terms. He tells me he just received his email for the right to purchase an EVGA 3070 FTW3 Ultra from the waiting list, but no longer needs it because he buckled and bought a very expensive card from Newegg a month or two ago. He asks if I want it.

 

I'm like, great! That would turn Schrödinger's card into something certain, and if I end up with two, I can just resell one. He says OK; let's take a look at that after work.

 

That night, he tells me the price and says I won't be responsible for the shipping fees or import duties. I'm like, of course.

 

Then, just before placing the order, he says:

• Oh, by the way, a tip would be appreciated.
• How much do you want?
• I don't know, how much are you offering?

At this point, I'm thinking: "Right. He's the greediest person I know. I'd forgotten about that."

• How about $50?
• Hmm... I was more thinking something along the lines of $100.

I agreed because I'm a sucker, but holy shit, he's gone way down in respect in my mind.

 

Like, the card's price is already jacked up by it being a stupid overbuilt model, by the CAD-USD exchange rate, by EVGA's eye-watering $95 USD shipping fees, by the $155 CAD import fees, you just had to jack up the price some more for me. (Total price is about $1320)

 

But ultimately I don't care that much about the hundred dollars. I earn over $50k a year now. Unlike before, I can take it. It's just that... That's not how you treat friends.

 

Just earlier that day I'd promised my eventual extra card to a friend of a friend who had also been looking for a card for a while, and when he asked how much I'd sell it to him for, I said "well I don't know, at cost or lower lol; I'm not a monster". The contrast is... Something.

 

Ultimately I know that from a business standpoint, what my friend did makes sense. He could've listed the card on eBay and sold it for more. If he were broke and he could really use the money, I may have frowned upon it a little, but I would've forgiven him. Hunger trumps morals, after all.

 

But the guy is definitely not broke. He moved out of his parents' place with like $100k in savings, and now he owns a house, a car, like 10 PCs, and he's been mining profitably on his overpriced card. In a few months he'll surely have had it pay back the overpriced part of the equation.

 

So yeah... I used to think he was a quirky friend I regretted not seeing more often. Now I think he's just someone I used to know. Am I being unreasonable?

[crakddx]

I hardly think that's ethical of him to do that. That's just bullshit, and trying to weasle money out of someone.

[pythonmegapixel]

I don't think he is any worse for offering it to you than you are for buying it to be honest.

[Arrogath]

I mean, I sourced cards for a few friends at cost but... I was pretty clear that it was for their use and if they were going to scalp them to someone else I wanted at least a cut of that

[Theguywhobea]

Look at it this way. If he was a stranger, would you feel any different? It might not have been exceedingly generous of him to sell you his reservation, but he did infact have something of value, that you gave him money for. It's not like, insanely unethical or something to do that. And the fact that you believed the $100 to be worth it in order to purchase a card you wouldn't have been able to otherwise seems to point to the fact that you thought it was at least somewhat fair at some point.

 

Just like how scalping in general is ethically dubious, it only exists when a market for a product exists beyond what the manufacturer priced it at. No one would have been able to scalp an $800 GPU for $2000 if there weren't people out there will to pay $2000 for that card. You could argue that anyone who paid that price was "scammed" but at the time they made the purchase, the only way to do that was to pay the $2000 and they deemed that a price they were willing to pay for some item.

[HanZie82]

Well its ok to ask that for a price. You could always say no. And It's definitely NOT a tip. You PAYED for the spot.
But if you feel different about your friend, be the good friend and tell them!

There's enough secrets already, and also shows what kind of friend it is.

[Queen Chrysalis]

So s the new scalper gig gonna be botting up the EVGA queue and selling the spots?

[An0maly_76]

Not defending this person, nor am I slamming OP, first and foremost. But let's look at this on the facts.

 

GPU prices are ridiculously high because of the mining community hogging them all.

You've been looking for one and took a chance on, quite frankly, a highly suspect transaction. A month delivery time? Is it coming from China or something?

Your acquaintance offers you an opportunity to take over his slot with a known good card with warranty.

Your acquaintance says you will not be responsible for shipping costs or import duties.

Your acquaintance asks a finder's fee (I wouldn't have called it a tip), likely to help cover any shipping fees or import duties assessed them, which in some countries could well be more than what he asked. I don't know this end, not knowing your location.

 

It honestly sounds to me like you are more irritated with yourself for 1) Taking a chance on getting ripped on eBay, just before getting this opportunity to quash the jank factor. 2)  I hardly think they twisted your arm or forced you. 3) You could have said no any time you wanted to. If it's that big a deal, I would just ask for my money back and let them offer the spot to someone else. Personally, after paying $850 for an RTX3060ti listed as new that showed signs of the box being opened, I think I'd just roll with the punches in the interest of assuring a solid transaction, because there's every chance your eBay special may not even arrive.

[PDifolco]

That's awfully unethical, refuse that and gimme his mail address 

[L583]

I think it would be way more understandable if he told you upfront, he‘s selling his position in the queue. But making that clear at the end when you already committed yourself to doing it is extremely dishonest in my opinion. 
I don‘t think friends have to gift eachother things that increased in value for a lower price, but not mentioning the final price from the start is lying to you.

[L583]

1 hour ago, An0maly_76 said:

Not defending this person, nor am I slamming OP, first and foremost. But let's look at this on the facts.

 

GPU prices are ridiculously high because of the mining community hogging them all.

You've been looking for one and took a chance on, quite frankly, a highly suspect transaction. A month delivery time? Is it coming from China or something?

Your acquaintance offers you an opportunity to take over his slot with a known good card with warranty.

Your acquaintance says you will not be responsible for shipping costs or import duties.

Your acquaintance asks a finder's fee (I wouldn't have called it a tip), likely to help cover any shipping fees or import duties assessed them, which in some countries could well be more than what he asked. I don't know this end, not knowing your location.

 

It honestly sounds to me like you are more irritated with yourself for 1) Taking a chance on getting ripped on eBay, just before getting this opportunity to quash the jank factor. 2)  I hardly think they twisted your arm or forced you. 3) You could have said no any time you wanted to. If it's that big a deal, I would just ask for my money back and let them offer the spot to someone else. Personally, after paying $850 for an RTX3060ti listed as new that showed signs of the box being opened, I think I'd just roll with the punches in the interest of assuring a solid transaction, because there's every chance your eBay special may not even arrive.

If he told him he‘d sell his spot in the queue for 100$ dollars from the start, yes, but I think he told him that too late.

[L583]

2 hours ago, Theguywhobea said:

Look at it this way. If he was a stranger, would you feel any different? It might not have been exceedingly generous of him to sell you his reservation, but he did infact have something of value, that you gave him money for. It's not like, insanely unethical or something to do that. And the fact that you believed the $100 to be worth it in order to purchase a card you wouldn't have been able to otherwise seems to point to the fact that you thought it was at least somewhat fair at some point.

 

Just like how scalping in general is ethically dubious, it only exists when a market for a product exists beyond what the manufacturer priced it at. No one would have been able to scalp an $800 GPU for $2000 if there weren't people out there will to pay $2000 for that card. You could argue that anyone who paid that price was "scammed" but at the time they made the purchase, the only way to do that was to pay the $2000 and they deemed that a price they were willing to pay for some item.

But he didn‘t tell him the price when he offered the spot

[Eiri]

1 hour ago, An0maly_76 said:

Your acquaintance says you will not be responsible for shipping costs or import duties.

I think I expressed that wrong. He said "I won't be responsible for shipping or import fees". Meaning I would pay them. The finder's fee is on top of those fees.

 

1 hour ago, An0maly_76 said:

A month delivery time? Is it coming from China or something?

The Netherlands! Honestly it's not much of a chance considering eBay's money back guarantee. Worst case, they don't ship me anything, and I'll end up having loaned them a thousand dollars for a month, interest free. But I get your point.

 

1 hour ago, An0maly_76 said:

I would just ask for my money back and let them offer the spot to someone else

That would be quite a dick move on my part. Maybe if I hadn't said yes he wouldn't have ordered the card at all; now he'd have to deal with the hassle of receiving and reselling a card for nothing.

 

1 hour ago, An0maly_76 said:

there's every chance your eBay special may not even arrive

Yeah tbh I'm about 80% sure it's a scam. But I fully intend on getting my money back in that case.

 

1 hour ago, PDifolco said:

That's awfully unethical, refuse that and gimme his mail address 

Lol

 

17 minutes ago, L583 said:

I think it would be way more understandable if he told you upfront

Right? I don't think I would've been exactly 100% fine with it, but I'd have taken it it better if that had been the case.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Eiri

[An0maly_76]

17 minutes ago, L583 said:

If he told him he‘d sell his spot in the queue for 100$ dollars from the start, yes, but I think he told him that too late.

  Quoitng OP's post:

2 hours ago, Eiri said:

That night, he tells me the price and says I won't be responsible for the shipping fees or import duties. I'm like, of course.

 

Then, just before placing the order, he says:

• Oh, by the way, a tip would be appreciated.
• How much do you want?
• I don't know, how much are you offering?

At this point, I'm thinking: "Right. He's the greediest person I know. I'd forgotten about that."

• How about $50?
• Hmm... I was more thinking something along the lines of $100.

I agreed because I'm a sucker, but holy shit, he's gone way down in respect in my mind.

 

Like, the card's price is already jacked up by it being a stupid overbuilt model, by the CAD-USD exchange rate, by EVGA's eye-watering $95 USD shipping fees, by the $155 CAD import fees, you just had to jack up the price some more for me. (Total price is about $1320)

 

But ultimately I don't care that much about the hundred dollars. I earn over $50k a year now. Unlike before, I can take it. It's just that... That's not how you treat friends.

If I'm reading this right (and I think I am), OP clearly states the acquaintance said OP won't be responsible for shipping and import fees. Then turns around and gripes about them being part of the price, when OP is paying them. Seems to me acquaintance's only sin here is asking that OP cover part of the shipping and import fees they initially said they wouldn't be responsible for. At any rate, no one twisted OP's arm to agree to this.

[An0maly_76]

23 minutes ago, Eiri said:

I think I expressed that wrong. He said "I won't be responsible for shipping or import fees". Meaning I would pay them. The finder's fee is on top of those fees.

 

The Netherlands! Honestly it's not much of a chance considering eBay's money back guarantee. Worst case, they don't ship me anything, and I'll end up having loaned them a thousand dollars for a month, interest free. But I get your point.

Okay, so now it's starting to make sense. Acquaintance didn't say YOU wouldn't be responsible for shipping and duties, they said THEY wouldn't be responsible, then asked for a finder's fee, more or less. Dick move, maybe, but in light of all this, if it's that big of a deal to you, just go with it, and drop them like a bad habit after the card is received.

 

You get what you want without the guesswork, and for $100, you've discovered what your friendship is worth to him. That's a lot cheaper than a lot of life lessons. I've had people flat-out screw me for far more money with no benefit at all to me. Food for thought. Would I handle this that way? Maybe, maybe not. He didn't have to ask for the $100, but he didn't have to offer his spot in the queue either. But at least you're getting SOMETHING out of the deal.

Edited March 6, 2022 by An0maly_76

[L583]

At the end of the day it‘s your decision if you want to tell them, break off contact or let it slide. Do what you think will be the best for you and aligns with your values. But be prepared that he might not get your point. He might see himself as generous for giving it to you cheap for example, so telling him might lead to a discussion. Think about the risks your tsking and how important this is to you.

[Eiri]

35 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

OP clearly states the acquaintance said OP won't be responsible for shipping and import fees

Sorry, I think I said that wrong. I am paying for the shipping and import duties, not my acquaintance.

 

31 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

He didn't have to ask for the $100, but he didn't have to offer his spot in the queue either. But at least you're getting SOMETHING out of the deal.

Yeah, it's but like he outright did something wrong. I intend to do the transaction as agreed upon. I'm just not going to be all that thankful about it lol.

 

33 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

for $100, you've discovered what your friendship is worth to him.

Good philosophical take tbh

 

26 minutes ago, L583 said:

But be prepared that he might not get your point. He might see himself as generous for giving it to you cheap for example,

Yeah, that's a good point, and it's why I'm grumbling in his back instead of confronting him about it. He's easy to frustrate and not very mature. Frankly, I don't really want to bother with an ethical debate with him, especially not for my own sake. If he was doing this to someone else, maybe I'd find the motivation, but...

[HanZie82]

Yeah im not sure if friend aplies here.
If he had to pay for that spot fine, but if he just got it for free, i would personally not consider him a friend (anymore).

Unless he really needs money, i mean ive been there, shit can be hard. But then you should've jsut given him the 100 bucks even without the thing. hehehe

 

But if that was me, i would not have any real friend pay for something i got for free, thats just awful imho.


But Thats what you get, multiple people multiple opinions.

[An0maly_76]

2 minutes ago, Eiri said:

He's easy to frustrate and not very mature. Frankly, I don't really want to bother with an ethical debate with him, especially not for my own sake. If he was doing this to someone else, maybe I'd find the motivation, but...

From that point alone, I would have been leery of dealing with him in the first place. Leopards don't change their spots.

[Eiri]

15 minutes ago, HanZie82 said:

But if that was me, i would not have any real friend pay for something i got for free, thats just awful imho.

Thanks for your input. You sound like a nice person.

 

16 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

I would have been leery of dealing with him in the first place

yeah that seems to be the consensus among IRL friends. "get that guy out of your life", even. 

[An0maly_76]

21 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

From that point alone, I would have been leery of dealing with him in the first place. Leopards don't change their spots.

3 minutes ago, Eiri said:

yeah that seems to be the consensus among IRL friends. "get that guy out of your life", even. 

I've walked away from quite a few in my life that only seemed to know me when it suited them. Especially since I likely have Asperger's. Seems like most can't be bothered with me until it's convenient.

 

As for the remark about making a friend pay for what they got for free, I think a better way to put it would be that a real friend wouldn't charge another friend for something that didn't cost them anything.

Edited March 6, 2022 by An0maly_76

[Eiri]

1 minute ago, An0maly_76 said:

Especially since I likely have Asperger's. Seems like most can't be bothered with me until it's convenient.

Oof. Having had a few friends with Asperger's, I can definitely relate to it sometimes being difficult to find the energy to deal with some of their quirks.

 

But that's just not how relationships work. You can't just use people. You have my sympathy.

[HanZie82]

10 minutes ago, Eiri said:

Thanks for your input. You sound like a nice person.

Hahaha thanks, but no, i'm a total asshat.

[An0maly_76]

1 hour ago, An0maly_76 said:

I've walked away from quite a few in my life that only seemed to know me when it suited them. Especially since I likely have Asperger's. Seems like most can't be bothered with me until it's convenient.

1 hour ago, Eiri said:

Oof. Having had a few friends with Asperger's, I can definitely relate to it sometimes being difficult to find the energy to deal with some of their quirks.

 

But that's just not how relationships work. You can't just use people. You have my sympathy.

Not to make this thread about me, but, well, I guess I'm just good for what I'm good for, and otherwise, back into my cave until I'm needed again.

 

BTW, OP, thanks for marking my post as solution. I don't expect these things, but it's nice when it happens.

 

Asperger's affects different people in different ways, and I am afraid mine is to the point that I really can't take care of myself other than to prepare basic meals (when I don't forget to eat, which happens quite often these days). Housework, meals, and sadly, even hygiene don't register to me most of the time. I'm honestly not sure how I've held it together long enough to get through this new build, because honestly I was ready to throw things at various points. So maybe it's better that certain parts were reconsidered and swapped out for better ones, because waiting for those other parts to arrive gave me a much-needed break from the tension.

 

One thing that's kept me going is that if I am found to be severely disabled by this (and I think I will be), and require some sort of assisted living arrangement, this machine will be my sole source of entertainment, because any disability benefits I get will go to paying for the assisted living. I've been struggling with this basket case prebuilt for three years, and it drives me insane, so it's now or never -- and I need to future-proof it, because I likely won't have money to upgrade later. That's why I chose to stick with the 5900X. The other upgrades necessary for proper cooling blew my budget big-time, but when I don't have to deal with crappy video lag, etc. without the means to do anything about it, it will all be worth it.

 

Especially because I love American Truck Simulator, as I was an OTR semi driver for a few years. I had to give it up due to severe respiratory issues and allergies, though. These issues are likely due to Sensory Processing Disorder, a condition commonly linked to ASD and Asperger's. Smoke and diesel exhaust are like Chernobyl to me, and I stayed sick when I was on the road. I had a good career, and I loved it, but health before wealth. It really killed me to have to give that up after these things had already impacted my ability to pursue music and singing.
 

But the worst part has been the ableism over the past several months waiting for testing to confirm. Ableism takes two forms, treating someone with a disability like they're completely helpless when they aren't, and also extends to insisting that a person's disability can't possibly affect them the way they say it does. I can open a browser tab to search for something and forget what I was going to do before I start typing. I frequently go 18-24 hours without eating because I just don't think about eating. I forget vocal instruction no sooner than I receive it... the list goes on and on. And I was subject to corporal punishment because I was misdiagnosed as being defiant by idiots.

 

Yet even now, even those in my family that believe I may have Asperger's, constantly second-guess me and push ableistic BS on me, insisting, "You're not helpless", 'You know this is an issue", "You can do anything you want if you try", and the one that drives me nuts, "You just have to train your brain and keep your mind on what you're doing".  I know this arises from the hyper-intelligence common in Aspies, but It's just not that simple, and certain members of my family always have to be right and are more wrapped up with pointing out how hard it has been for them to deal with me, when I am the one who has to live with it. And knowing something is an issue does not magically grant me the ability to deal with it.

 

No one likes being made out to be the problem for things they can't control. Not that I'm considering it or have a plan to, but truth be told, suicide is quite common with those with Asperger's, and I'm starting to understand why. Most don't listen to hear you, they listen to reply. They think they're helping, but they're not.

[Eiri]

I haven't dealt with a heavier case like what you seem to have. That sounds rough. I'm sure your family means well, but having some health issues myself, I can vouch that it can be very frustrating to be told sentences that start with "just" when they're very difficult issues for you to solve.

 

I hope you get the help you need. Everyone is different, but a lot of people with self-management issues have much more satisfying lives when they have something to lean against to cover for their weaknesses. For instance, you might be able to become a great scientist, if you happen to be good at that, if you have someone to help you with cleaning and remind you to take care of yourself when you need it.

 

I sincerely hope you get that thing to lean against, because it's really sad when people don't live up to their potential for bullshit reasons.

 

Anyway, we're definitely veering off topic here, but you can DM me if you need to talk.