AMD fTPM causing random stuttering.

[sarah-chan]

I have the same weird lag spikes, ryzen 5800X and an Asus Rog Strx x570-E board. I can`t really disable tpm, just switch from ftpm to the other which I currently don`t have. I tried choosing the option nonetheless and thought my issues were gone, but after a few hours I got another spike so sad. I rebooted the system to check bios if I missed another option, but I just found it had reset to fTPM. I really hope I finally found the culprit to these weird issues. I purchased a hardware tpm now and will put it on my board once it is here, I hope this will fix my issues, if not I am at my wits end, and it is so frustrating since it`s a brand new and very pricy rig.

[El Xando]

Apparently still a problem on AGESA 1.2.0.5 according to comments in this reddit thread: 

 

[Mojo-Jojo]

17 hours ago, El Xando said:

Apparently still a problem on AGESA 1.2.0.5 according to comments in this reddit thread: 

 

That's a shame, I was just about to go try flashing my MoBo when I saw the update. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Mechano]

On 1/17/2022 at 11:43 AM, SilentPrayerCG said:

Will it update properly? Or it will receive only some of updates until fTPM enabled again?

I've been getting updates no problem, and no stutters either anymore it honestly kind of brings up the questions of why it's a requirement in the first place when the only issue I had was having to go and redo my login pin

[Llinya]

Have the same random stuttering issue. In my case there’s audio stuttering as well. Specs are 5600X with a gigabyte b450m-gaming(biod is f62b, which is up to date) . But I didn’t test it with ftpm disabled, so what I can tell now is just this issue occurs nearly once a day no matter whether your cpu or memory is overclocked. 

[djmakk]

5 hours ago, Llinya said:

Have the same random stuttering issue. In my case there’s audio stuttering as well. Specs are 5600X with a gigabyte b450m-gaming(biod is f62b, which is up to date) . But I didn’t test it with ftpm disabled, so what I can tell now is just this issue occurs nearly once a day no matter whether your cpu or memory is overclocked. 

I'd recommend testing it. The problems we are experiencing are very specific. 

[therealdadbeard]

On 1/8/2022 at 1:38 PM, HarrySIX said:

I managed to capture one of these hitches while streaming, here's what it looked like:

From what I've gathered my best two options are to downgrade to Win10 so I can disable fTPM, or to buy a discrete TPM. Though I don't see a TPM connector on my motherboard, so I don't know if the latter is even possible. Help

HOLY MOLY this is exactly what my issue is and I though it was my oc. I can't believe it wtf....

[HarrySIX]

11 hours ago, therealdadbeard said:

HOLY MOLY this is exactly what my issue is and I though it was my oc. I can't believe it wtf....

Crazy isn't it. Hope you can get it fixed now!

[therealdadbeard]

2 hours ago, HarrySIX said:

Crazy isn't it. Hope you can get it fixed now!

I just disabled ftpm in my bios. W11 still works fine for now.

[Nyamp]

We are finally getting some media news about this, hope this gets fixed.

 

Security feature required to run Windows 11 is causing performance issues (windowslatest.com)

 

Windows 11 frame rate stuttering reported by some users with AMD CPUs | TechRadar

[djmakk]

26 minutes ago, Nyamp said:

We are finally getting some media news about this, hope this gets fixed.

 

Security feature required to run Windows 11 is causing performance issues (windowslatest.com)

 

Windows 11 frame rate stuttering reported by some users with AMD CPUs | TechRadar

Wish Linus would blast a few of these companies over this. Not sure how to get better attention to this otherwise. 

[AkikoKumagara]

4 hours ago, Nyamp said:

We are finally getting some media news about this, hope this gets fixed.

 

Security feature required to run Windows 11 is causing performance issues (windowslatest.com)

 

Windows 11 frame rate stuttering reported by some users with AMD CPUs | TechRadar

Damn, it took them months to catch on. This is good news, in any case.

[Tylerebowers]

I really though that I was the only one having this issue and was wondering what the cause was! I have a Msi Mag x570 Tomahawk Wifi, bios fully up to date, all drivers up to date. I have BOTH Debian 11 (Linux) and Windows 11 and I can confirm that the issue is present on both operating systems. It is NOT just a windows 11 problem.

[rmgdnz]

I've been experiencing this issue too, but it was so rare I never really researched it. I thought I was the only one! It generally happens 2-3 times a week while gaming and I see extreme visual and audio stutter for 2 seconds or so, and then it's all fine. Running a 5900X on B550-E ROG STRIX (BIOS 2423) and the latest version of Windows 11. FTPM is enabled. At the end of the day, it doesn't really bother me since it's so infrequent but hopefully this gets resolved soon.

[Astyanax]

This stutter is the result of a faulty cpu, it occurs during spikes of correctable pcie bus errors that is inherent to the ryzen platform.

 

[djmakk]

25 minutes ago, Astyanax said:

This stutter is the result of a faulty cpu, it occurs during spikes of correctable pcie bus errors that is inherent to the ryzen platform.

 

I have test both a 3700x, 3800x, and a 5800x in the same board. Same issue. Both cleaned installs. If its CPU dependent then the fault rate is extremely high. Also dont pcie bus errons get logged in Event Viewer? There is never an entry with this stutter. 

 

Also if this is the case, then why does turning off the fTPM fix it?

[gymleader]

Built a system couple days ago. 5950x with Dark Hero. Was doing a test stream so my buddy could help me set my mic volume properly and I think I got what is being experienced in this thread. Highlighted it here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1277699164

 

Can put it on YouTube if needed. Dark Hero box had "Windows 11 Ready" sticker and BIOS states it's 1.2.0.3 Patch C. No other BIOS changes have been made besides enabling XMP.

 

I'm on Windows 10. OBS stated 0 dropped frames had occured. I also looked at event viewer and I can't see any pcie bus errors or WHEA errors either.

 

Just to make sure I'm not missing anything the fix is to do what Sete explains on page 2? Advanced > Trusted Computing > Security Device Support (Disable)?

 

Thank you

[djmakk]

1 hour ago, gymleader said:

Built a system couple days ago. 5950x with Dark Hero. Was doing a test stream so my buddy could help me set my mic volume properly and I think I got what is being experienced in this thread. Highlighted it here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1277699164

 

Can put it on YouTube if needed. Dark Hero box had "Windows 11 Ready" sticker and BIOS states it's 1.2.0.3 Patch C. No other BIOS changes have been made besides enabling XMP.

 

I'm on Windows 10. OBS stated 0 dropped frames had occured. I also looked at event viewer and I can't see any pcie bus errors or WHEA errors either.

 

Just to make sure I'm not missing anything the fix is to do what Sete explains on page 2? Advanced > Trusted Computing > Security Device Support (Disable)?

 

Thank you

If you are on windows 10 and stay there, that will fix it. If you want to upgrade to win11 you will need to flip this toggle again to install in. 

 

Yep that clip looks like it. Throw it on youtube and provide a link back. More documentation the better. 

[Soupinator]

Wow I've been dealing with this ever since I installed Windows 11 and haven't had the slightest clue what to do about it.  It figures it's AMD's fault, I've had nothing but problems with their CPUs.  Guess I'll be turning the fTPM off next time I boot my system.

[gymleader]

One thing I will point out. This is likely unrelated but thought I would bring it up because who knows. Hopefully someone can disprove this.

 

So when I first built the PC I had a RM1000x. I was learning stuff about voltages so for those 2-3 days I didn't notice this issue. Yesterday I replaced the power supply with an older RM850x as I knew that had good voltage rails to check if there was any differences to the RM1000x I had installed.

 

This first stutter (I have noticed anyway) coincidentally happened 40 minutes after putting this 850w in. There are reports of even 3080s tripping OCP on 850w PSU so I wonder if the random power spiking of GPUs is just enough to make something weird happen on the PSU/CPU momentarily? Like it's not enough to trigger OCP but it's enough to cause this issue people have experienced. The ftpm thing fixing it is just a mask. Maybe it also can't handle the power spikes from the GPU?

 

Does anyone have more than an 850w PSU (say 1000w=+) that can confirm they still have the issue?

 

Also Asus has released AGESA 1.2.0.6 so maybe this helps?

[djmakk]

26 minutes ago, gymleader said:

One thing I will point out. This is likely unrelated but thought I would bring it up because who knows. Hopefully someone can disprove this.

 

So when I first built the PC I had a RM1000x. I was learning stuff about voltages so for those 2-3 days I didn't notice this issue. Yesterday I replaced the power supply with an older RM850x as I knew that had good voltage rails to check if there was any differences to the RM1000x I had installed.

 

This first stutter (I have noticed anyway) coincidentally happened 40 minutes after putting this 850w in. There are reports of even 3080s tripping OCP on 850w PSU so I wonder if the random power spiking of GPUs is just enough to make something weird happen on the PSU/CPU momentarily? Like it's not enough to trigger OCP but it's enough to cause this issue people have experienced. The ftpm thing fixing it is just a mask. Maybe it also can't handle the power spikes from the GPU?

 

Does anyone have more than an 850w PSU (say 1000w=+) that can confirm they still have the issue?

 

Also Asus has released AGESA 1.2.0.6 so maybe this helps?

Extremely unlikely. I've had it happen at practically idle for the cpu/gpu. I was thinking down this path at one point and I underclocked my 3070 down and lowered/disabled boost. Issue still occurs. Only fix is disabling fTPM in the bios.

[gymleader]

@djmakk Ah well that's good to know. I was close to putting back in the 1000w to test. Don't think I'll bother now.

[gymleader]

Had an idea but again likely far off. I wonder if it's a server key retrieval/timeout issue. Something like Windows periodically requests data to make sure the key/certificate hasn't been tampered with or even removed. The internal fTPM url of where it sends/requests data is being blocked by the router/windows/anti virus firewall and when this happens it freaks out.

 

It doesn't happen with a hardware type tpm because this likely doesn't broadcast data as it's harder to compromise than a software approach.

 

The only way to know for sure would be to run a program like wireshark and monitor incoming/outgoing requests around the time the issue happens. Worth even remotely trying or is this far fetched?

[caramelgeoff]

Good lord this has been plagueing me ever since I upgraded from X370 to X570, on my old gigabyte board I had the dedicated TPM, then when I went to Zen3 I decided to use the fTPM.

 

I thought I had a gremlin or something, couldn't figure it out and it was driving me nuts.

 

Now I am looking to buy the discrete TPM for my MSI X570 Tomahawk Max WiFi and the documentation is literal ass. Does anyone who can decipher their ridiculous documentation have any clue which actual chip I should be buying?

 

I don't want to turn off Bitlocker or rely on using the decyption key as I am away from home a lot and use game streaming so one reboot will take me offline til I can get home, and it would take days to decrypt my larger spin disks.

 

Edit for anyone curious: I ended up finding what I needed, MS-4136 for my MSI X570. 

[TreesP]

6 minutes ago, caramelgeoff said:

Good lord this has been plagueing me ever since I upgraded from X370 to X570, on my old gigabyte board I had the dedicated TPM, then when I went to Zen3 I decided to use the fTPM.

 

I thought I had a gremlin or something, couldn't figure it out and it was driving me nuts.

 

Now I am looking to buy the discrete TPM for my MSI X570 Tomahawk Max WiFi and the documentation is literal ass. Does anyone who can decipher their ridiculous documentation have any clue which actual chip I should be buying?

 

I don't want to turn off Bitlocker or rely on using the decyption key as I am away from home a lot and use game streaming so one reboot will take me offline til I can get home, and it would take days to decrypt my larger spin disks.

Apologies if I'm off track, but you currently use BitLocker and don't want to disable fTPM because of that, correct? Or am I misreading?

 

I used BitLocker on a previous machine and it bit me bad with no recovery. Never again! Veracrypt (fork of Truecrypt) is an absolute solid choice if you want to encrypt your drives. I have used it for many years. No problem disabling fTPM and still keeping encryption if that's what you're after.