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AMD fTPM causing random stuttering.

2 hours ago, DRenars said:

Clearly they have no idea what is happening. When I reported this issue to Gigabyte support they told me it's the first time someone reported that kind of problem. When they advised me to update the BIOS, reinstall drivers etc I immediately gave up on them. I've written to them again to keep them busy with this issue. If they tell me something helpful I'll update you. BTW they answer me every 20-25 days.

MSI told me stutters are coming from PSU which is not powerfull enough, i told them i replaced it to 760W and still got 1 stutter since report, they told me to check the graphic card and record the problem... my gpu is pretty new nothing wrong about it and i cant record it i do not own a camera with tripod 

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2 hours ago, Raider0001 said:

MSI told me stutters are coming from PSU which is not powerfull enough, i told them i replaced it to 760W and still got 1 stutter since report, they told me to check the graphic card and record the problem... my gpu is pretty new nothing wrong about it and i cant record it i do not own a camera with tripod 

This is similar to "Have you tried to power it off and on again?" type of answer :)) There is a video, of how the stutter looks like on the first page of this topic made by user meemz, so you can show them, how it's look like. Here is the link: 

 

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I was just wondering, is this issue exclusive to only a fraction of users or most people just don't notice it or cant see a connection to fTPM? You need to play sound to notice it after all. Guys what do you think?

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9 hours ago, Antistar said:

This is similar to "Have you tried to power it off and on again?" type of answer :)) There is a video, of how the stutter looks like on the first page of this topic made by user meemz, so you can show them, how it's look like. Here is the link: 

 

Mine doesn't sound like that, i have very fast audio grind and choppy mouse... but it did not happen for 2 days now maybe the PSU was the culprit afterall from what i remember agesa ComboAM4PIV2 1.2.0.3c. helped a lot but didn't eliminate it 

edit. it happened again 

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8 hours ago, DRenars said:

I was just wondering, is this issue exclusive to only a fraction of users or most people just don't notice it or cant see a connection to fTPM? You need to play sound to notice it after all. Guys what do you think?

I have a friend who I've essentially verified to be unaffected, he's on a Gigabyte B450 AORUS M and Ryzen 5 2600 that formerly both belonged to me.

Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X | Memory: 32GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB PRO 3600MHz (18-22-22-42) | Motherboard: MSI MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI (MS-7C84) | Graphics: AMD Radeon VII 16GB

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I created an account because I'm having the exact same issue so everyone here isn't alone! This entire forum post describes the exact same issue I'm having it's been super annoying to deal with as of late. It has happened to me when on Windows 10 and still occurs with Windows 11. It seems to happen like 1-2 times a day. Basically the weird audio / video playback stutter happening while gaming or browsing on the web with YouTube in the background. I thought it was my NVIDIA graphics card driver as that has been noted as quite a similar issue that's been around for a year now with every new graphics driver patch notes but I'm starting to think it's related to having this fTPM on. All my drivers are up to date and I hardly run things in the background besides monitoring my fans, hard drive temps; the basic necessities for my system. I have secure boot on, XMP profile set to correct profile that my ram will take as factory default (16GB (8x2) - 3200Mhz) & fTPM enabled while on bios v7B86vHC of my MSI board. All my drivers are up-to-date (with the exception of my MSI motherboard bios, I don't want to upgrade to the beta version that's listed on their website right now and risk it bricking my setup) and have all the necessary MSVC++ Redistributables & Runtime packages installed for the apps I use.

 

 

Here is the list of my entire system specs:

 

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor (Chipset Software v3.10.08.506)
Motherboard: MSI B450 Gaming Plus MAX ATX AM4 (vH.C0)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16
Storage: - Western Digital Caviar Black 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
- ADATA Ultimate SU800 512 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
- Western Digital Blue 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive
GPU: EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER 8 GB SC ULTRA GAMING (Geforce Driver v496.49)
Case: Fractal Design Define S ATX Mid Tower
PSU: EVGA SuperNova G2 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX
OS: Microsoft Windows 11 Home 64-bit (v21H2 build 22000.282 | Feature Experience Pack 1000.22000.318.0)
Monitors: - ViewSonic XG2401 23.6" 1920x1080 144 Hz (Free-sync)
- Asus VX238H 23.0" 1920x1080 60 Hz
Keyboard: Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro S RGB Wired Standard
Mouse: Logitech G502 Proteus Core Wired Optical
Controller: DualShock 4 Wireless Controller Magma Red
Mic: Razer Seiren Mini

 

Here is the list of apps & features from Windows 11 I have installed (excluding games):

 

- 7zip v21.03 beta (x64)

- Alarms & Clock

- Amazon Prime Video for Windows

- AMD Chipset Software v3.10.08.506

- Audacity v3.0.5

- Calculator

- Camera

- Cortana

- Discord v1.0.9003

- Disney+

- ElevenClock v2.5

- Feedback Hub

- GameSave Manager v3.1.507.0

- Get Help

- GOG GALAXY v2.0.43.71 beta

- HWiNFO64 v7.14

- HxD Hex Editor v2.5

- LibreOffice 7.2.2.2

- Mail and Calendar

- Maps

- Microsoft Edge v95.0.1020.44

- Microsoft Edge Update v1.3.153.47

- Microsoft Edge WebView2 Runtime v95.0.1020.44

- Microsoft Photos

- Microsoft Store

- Microsoft Update Health Tools v2.87.0.0

- Movies & TV

- MSI Afterburner v4.6.4 Beta 4

- MusicBee v3.4.7805

- Nahimic

- Netflix

- Notepad++ (64-bit x64) v8.1.9

- NVIDIA Graphics Driver v496.49

- NVIDIA HD Audio Driver v1.3.38.92

- NVIDIA PhysX System Software v9.21.0713

- NVIDIA USBC Driver V1.46.831.832

- OpenAL

- MS Paint

- Paint.net v4.3.2

- People

- Power Automate

- Realtek Audio Console

- Realtek Audio Driver v6.0.9250.1

- Realtek Ethernet Controller Driver v10.46.1231.2020

- RivaTuner Statistics Server v7.3.2 Beta 5

- Snipping Tool

- Special K v21.07.22

- Steam v2.10.91.91

- VLC media player v3.0.16

- Weather

- Windows Security

- Windows Terminal

- Xbox

- Xbox Game Bar

- Xbox Live

- Your Phone

 

I really hope AMD, NVIDIA, Microsoft, motherboard vendors or whoever can fix this issue that's plaguing a lot of users. I've tried posting my feedback on Microsoft's Feedback Hub and many discord servers regarding this issue. They all gotta become more aware of this.

 

UPDATE: So I got a response back from a user in the Microsoft Community discord and this is what they had to say: "that ftpm either need AMD or motherboard maker fix it through bios or firmware update, I have that issue too, so I disable fTPM on win 11 for now. But I once ask Asrock board maker, they said they have bios update to fix this incoming, just doesn't sure how many motherboard they can cover for this issue." So it literally comes back to motherboard vendors all having to bring another bios update to address this issue at the end of the day which really sucks. Hope MSI brings a new bios out soon.

Edited by SteepStyleEssence
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On 11/6/2021 at 8:56 AM, DRenars said:

I was just wondering, is this issue exclusive to only a fraction of users or most people just don't notice it or cant see a connection to fTPM? You need to play sound to notice it after all. Guys what do you think?

The fTPM was disabled by default until recent BIOS updates so most people probably never experienced it, and even if you do it's actually really hard to figure out what it's caused by..

Googling for "Random windows mouse and audio stutter" brings up a whole lot of useless results.

 

I had it for the longest time ever since I enabled it for Bitlocker (in hindsight) but never connected the stutters to the fTPM, I thought it was related to some power management setting, because it seems like the CPU is stalling and waiting for some device to wake up from sleep.. so I messed around with those settings but nothing resolved it.. gave up for a while and then saw this thread.

 

We'll see in the coming months I guess, as more people are enabling it and upgrading to Windows 11..

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On 11/6/2021 at 9:56 AM, DRenars said:

I was just wondering, is this issue exclusive to only a fraction of users or most people just don't notice it or cant see a connection to fTPM? You need to play sound to notice it after all. Guys what do you think?

*sry for my Engrish*
Yes, it's only a fraction of users yet cause fTMP is disabled mostly for everyone by default and the amount of users with W11 installed is laughable (1,8% according to Steam). 
I noticed this issue the day I enabled this feature on W10 (in order to get W11 update) and started watching youtube videos. The reason was obvious. 
But my stutters are not as bad as in meemz' video posted above and last only half a second, barely noticeable. Maybe it's also a part of the reason why there're no mass reporting.
But I have much slower/older PC tho (B450 Aorus and Ryzen 5 2600).
 

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I am having the same problems but there is no disable option in my fTMP settings, it is set to enable firmware TMP right now, I can only switch it to hardware TMP (which I do not have) would this disable TMP?

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9 hours ago, Tharic said:

I am having the same problems but there is no disable option in my fTMP settings, it is set to enable firmware TMP right now, I can only switch it to hardware TMP (which I do not have) would this disable TMP?

Probably, yes, it will disable TPM. I have enabled TPM in BIOS, but did't activate AMD fTPM. TPM shows as Disabled in Windows.

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I'm going to report mine to Gigaybyte support. I would say to all of you to beware of updating your BIOS. One or two ASUS users have reported that the option to turn off fTPM in the bios is disabled in newer versions. 

 

I'm hoping that Gigabyte won't stoop that low, but I don't really want to risk my rig on it. 

 

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Just now, Tea Monster said:

I'm going to report mine to Gigaybyte support. I would say to all of you to beware of updating your BIOS. One or two ASUS users have reported that the option to turn off fTPM in the bios is disabled in newer versions. 

 

I'm hoping that Gigabyte won't stoop that low, but I don't really want to risk my rig on it. 

 

It is still possible to disable TPM on ASUS and I made a post explaining how to do this a few pages ago: https://linustechtips.com/topic/1353904-amd-ftpm-causing-random-stuttering/?do=findComment&comment=14931775

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I heard back and they recommend that I install the latest BIOS and they asked if I have the SIV utility installed or turned off, and if I do have it installed, can I turn it off. 

 

SIV is a temperature and monitoring util. 

 

 

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Funny story here, my mobo died and its my third mobo death in the year so i decided to rma everything(mobo, cpu and psu) and in the amd rma i mentioned basically the ftpm thing and it was approved, they gave me my money back(R$2850 ,1U$=5,6R$ so you do the math. I paid R$2170 so thats a clear win lol).Im hoping that with a new mobo and new cpu(5800X) the issue will be solved for me

Intel Core i5-12600K            Gigabyte Z690 Gaming X           XPG Gammix  D10 (4x8GB) DDR4-3200Mhz

ADATA Falcon 512GB Nvme  XPG Gammix S41 TUF 256GB Nvme           Zotac Geforce RTX 2070 Super           

Corsair RM650            Seagate HD 1TB 7200rpm            Noctua NH-D15            AOC 24G2/BK

Corsair 4000D            Corsair K68            Logitech G502 Hero           

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Well turning fTPM off removed the error for me but I still got pc crashes where the pc would freeze and I could still move the mouse around. I noticed my corsair fans went back to the default rgb state when this happened so I yeeted iCue off my pc. Lets hope that fixes all the issues.

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Well folks, while I'm not going to give up on the fight, I wanted to announce that I snagged a discrete TPM for my current motherboard while I wait for this issue to actually be acknowledged. I found a clone of the MS-4136 my motherboard requires for around $15 USD, waited a while for it to arrive from China, popped it in and all my TPM issues disappeared.

 

I still really do hope AMD works with motherboard manufacturers and/or Microsoft to resolve this issue, though, because this is a feature we're paying for that is not working as intended. We absolutely shouldn't be expected to disable the feature or buy a discrete TPM to resolve what is clearly an issue on their end at this point. I really wish someone on Tech YouTube who had some pull would at least mention this in a video.

 

I wonder how many people are facing this issue and don't even realize what the problem is. I can't imagine that it's a very small number ever since Windows 11 started rolling out.

Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X | Memory: 32GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB PRO 3600MHz (18-22-22-42) | Motherboard: MSI MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI (MS-7C84) | Graphics: AMD Radeon VII 16GB

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With this thread being over 12 pages long, I haven't read every page. As such, I have no idea whether LatencyMon has been mentioned at all.

 

Have you tried this yet? Let it run in the background until stutters occur. It will tell you latency times for various drivers on various levels. It should give you an idea of what's happening during the stutters. I'm currently trying to get to the bottom of stutters as well, which have been happening since I turned fTPM on. For me, stutters are not daily though, so I haven't been able to capture one yet.

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I just watched youtube and got a stuttering issue. Then I remember this thread, so I dig it up.

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It only remains to wait for more users to have the same problem and report it so they can solve it
 
image.png.5e734e8544dec1f9a4c379a79582269f.png
 
 
 
 
 
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On 11/21/2021 at 4:06 PM, Mojo-Jojo said:

With this thread being over 12 pages long, I haven't read every page. As such, I have no idea whether LatencyMon has been mentioned at all.

 

Have you tried this yet? Let it run in the background until stutters occur. It will tell you latency times for various drivers on various levels. It should give you an idea of what's happening during the stutters. I'm currently trying to get to the bottom of stutters as well, which have been happening since I turned fTPM on. For me, stutters are not daily though, so I haven't been able to capture one yet.

Windows Performance Analyzer seems to be the best for capturing these stutters. I have 200+gb of trace files capturing hundreds of these random stutters, and although I tried my best, it is way out of my depth in terms of analysing the results. It is pretty intensive to run, too. Maybe someone here has the knowledge?

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/wpt/windows-performance-analyzer

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/get-started/adk-install

 

I am honestly thinking that if you have these stutters with tpm enabled, you have them. No fix is coming.

 

Sad times.

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1 hour ago, TreesP said:

I am honestly thinking that if you have these stutters with tpm enabled, you have them. No fix is coming.

I'm not entirely sure about that. Something I can confirm, though not with 100% certainty, just from my own experience...

 

These stutters only happened to me in Windows. I also run macOS (OpenCore w/ AMD patches) and Manjaro occasionally and didn't notice the same issue in these other operating systems. That means it's very likely this is something specific to Windows and being triggered by Windows in some way. This also means there's a chance that it could even be fixed in software, depending on how deep the problem lies in the Operating System(s) that are affected by it.

 

What I'm not sure of is if the other operating systems even care about or check if TPM is enabled, and if they don't then my theory is dead where it lies. It still at least gives a glimmer of hope that this can be fixed without disabling fTPM. And of course there's always the option to buy a discrete TPM if all else fails and your motherboard has a header for one.

Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X | Memory: 32GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB PRO 3600MHz (18-22-22-42) | Motherboard: MSI MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI (MS-7C84) | Graphics: AMD Radeon VII 16GB

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On 11/21/2021 at 5:06 PM, Mojo-Jojo said:

With this thread being over 12 pages long, I haven't read every page. As such, I have no idea whether LatencyMon has been mentioned at all.

 

Have you tried this yet? Let it run in the background until stutters occur. It will tell you latency times for various drivers on various levels. It should give you an idea of what's happening during the stutters. I'm currently trying to get to the bottom of stutters as well, which have been happening since I turned fTPM on. For me, stutters are not daily though, so I haven't been able to capture one yet.

I kept it running and just caught one of the stutters right after I looked at it and it didn't capture anything. Only NVIDIA driver, ntoskrnl and wdf0100 were slightly above 1ms but those were in that ballpark all day..

That fits with what someone else said about OBS, when stutters happen the stream lags but OBS doesn't see anything wrong or any dropped frames. It's as if the CPU stalls, including all time measuring.

 

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15 hours ago, Soph3D said:

I'm not entirely sure about that. Something I can confirm, though not with 100% certainty, just from my own experience...

 

These stutters only happened to me in Windows. I also run macOS (OpenCore w/ AMD patches) and Manjaro occasionally and didn't notice the same issue in these other operating systems. That means it's very likely this is something specific to Windows and being triggered by Windows in some way. This also means there's a chance that it could even be fixed in software, depending on how deep the problem lies in the Operating System(s) that are affected by it.

 

What I'm not sure of is if the other operating systems even care about or check if TPM is enabled, and if they don't then my theory is dead where it lies. It still at least gives a glimmer of hope that this can be fixed without disabling fTPM. And of course there's always the option to buy a discrete TPM if all else fails and your motherboard has a header for one.

Yes, you are right, I should have made it clear, but I meant if you have the stutters as a Windows user. I have read on the Lenovo forums at least that these stutters do not occur running Linux with tpm enabled, and I'm sure that is the case across the board.

 

I just can't help thinking that if you have the stutters on the system you bought, built, whatever it may be, then you are stuck with it. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic, I hope I am. It just seems incredibly strange to me that there is no official word on this, and it affects some and not others. It also begs the question of how many people are affected, yet they just don't realise.

 

I'm very grateful I found this "fix" because it was driving me mad! And yes, you are right, it is great we can turn it, I feel bad for those that have had to forced on in BIOS updates. But despite the large numbers of views these threads discussing this get, it seems to be a big secret that has been going on for a while. It'll be a year for me soon, and who knows how much further it back it goes?

 

Windows 11 still seems to be the best bet. Maybe if more people report it when they turn it on to upgrade, it will force a fix one way or another.

Edited by TreesP
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1 hour ago, TreesP said:

And yes, you are right, it is great we can turn it

I actually didn't mention turning it off in my reply. I was trying to say that I'm not sure if macOS and Linux operating systems have passive access to TPM (without explicitly enabling it in the OS) like Windows does.

 

If they do not, then them not stuttering when I use them means nothing. That's what I was trying to say.

In my opinion, disabling fTPM at this point is a potential workaround and not a solution, especially since some people cannot disable fTPM in their UEFI. In reality, someone with some influence NEEDS to cover this before we can expect anything to change or be addressed. This could even end up being cause for a class action lawsuit.

Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X | Memory: 32GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB PRO 3600MHz (18-22-22-42) | Motherboard: MSI MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI (MS-7C84) | Graphics: AMD Radeon VII 16GB

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