AMD fTPM causing random stuttering.

[gymleader]

Maybe some hope for this being a software issue after all. Stumbled upon this: 

It would actually be hilarious if this is all because the AMD url can't be fetched properly to get the certificate so thus it times out and causes the stutter.

 

The guy linked this forum thread on Microsoft: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/537944/tpm-event-logger-error-after-cpu-swap-event-id-86.html?page=1&pageSize=10&sort=oldest

 

Now that would fix the certificate issue so that should be happy days. The problem is that fix dates back to November 15th 2021 for the dev build. I have literally 0 idea of how I would track this to see if the update rolled into global Windows 11 patches or if it's still just hovering around in this insider/dev build that from what I understand you have to specifically opt into or install.

 

[VideoNomad]

13 hours ago, VideoNomad said:

Actually had this issue from the very beginning of my Win11 install. Was testing everything that I can, hard drives, GPU, CPU (3900x) etc. etc.
And here it is... fTPM was the culprit! It was stuttering at least 2-3 times a day.

Tried disabling the fTPM with Windows 11 installed and was surprised that it booted normally. I don't use bitlocker though.

No stutters so far. Not sure about the long term effects of disabling fTPM on Windows 11, but we will see. Hopefully AMD/Microsoft fixes this.

And here's the first issue with disabling fTPM. You can't shut down your pc using "Shut down" button from start. You need to use 

shutdown /s

CMD command to properly shut down.
A small bug, but annoying non the less.

[Riwen40]

It Sound more as a asus motherboard problem.

[Mojo-Jojo]

1 hour ago, Riwen40 said:

It Sound more as a asus motherboard problem.

Based on what? People in this thread have all kinds of boards. Asrock, MSI, Gigabyte...

[Frizz]

Just putting a point out there, AMD GPUS can experience stutter on some DX11 games and it has nothing to do with HW faults. It more comes down to developer implementation vs driver coding. AMD systems have next to 0 issues on Vulcan because it optimizes how AMD uses its hardware long story short. So as with anything comped there are hundreds of reason why stutter may happen as lots of pieces go into working with fTPM...

[Mojo-Jojo]

1 minute ago, Frizz said:

Just putting a point out there, AMD GPUS can experience stutter on some DX11 games and it has nothing to do with HW faults. It more comes down to developer implementation vs driver coding. AMD systems have next to 0 issues on Vulcan because it optimizes how AMD uses its hardware long story short. So as with anything comped there are hundreds of reason why stutter may happen as lots of pieces go into working with fTPM...

This is not about AMD GPU's, DX11 or even gaming in general. Some systems will just be idling or having a spreadsheet open, and the stutter will occur.

[SilentPrayerCG]

So I've disabled fTPM few days ago, as nothing changed, it still randomly cause sound stutter. Everything was ok... until, we with friend decided to play some Valorant... and what do you think, Vanguard anticheat REQUIRE TPM 2.0, AND secure boot... i wonder for? Because it's deffinitely don't require anything like this in Windows 10 that installed on my friend's PC, he have pretty old Potato PC, and doesn't have any TPM and even UEFI. I feel like Rito did it just in same way as MS added it as hard requirement, just for sh*ts and giggles i guess.

So i forced enable it back, and enable Secure boot, that I'm actually don't know nothing about, I really don't know what exactly this feature do, and how my PC be better with it, i guess it protect me from hackers that can have physical access to my PC or something.

No noticeable stutters for now, tho, but it's mean nothing, their rarity, length and appearance pretty random in my case.

[Frizz]

1 hour ago, Mojo-Jojo said:

This is not about AMD GPU's, DX11 or even gaming in general. Some systems will just be idling or having a spreadsheet open, and the stutter will occur.

For sure! Hence my point if under load issues can be caused by in-optimizations and not hardware issues. Then it is far MORE likely under no load it isn't simply speaking hardware problems. Read the rest of this forum if you are confused as to why I bring that up

Correctable errors for example under almost no load would not simply lead to stutter. But edge-cases and poor optimization, oh yeah that happens far more then people realize. This is coming from someone who operates in the DC space and see lots of different cases and what causes them

[Guest -Senku-]

Just a suggestion for anyone that has these issues, keep a personal log write down time and date each time it happens, you can check windows logs every time to eventually each time it happens you check you gonna recognize pattern, its annoying but im sure 1 of the apps from Microsoft is causing this.

My last discrete tpm stutter was on 26-01-2022 i don't remember the time, no issues so far but for me it really happens only once a month if lucky.

If had it once a month and more often with ftpm as well even on windows 10

 

This might be useful for some heck im going thru it now my self since it has log entries from 26 januari where i had first tpm stutter

tpmtool gatherlogs

This event triggers the provisioning/health check for Trusted Platform Module (TPM).
The TPM has been cleared. Reason: SRK has changed or is not present..
The Ownership of the Trusted Platform Module (TPM) hardware on this computer was successfully taken (TPM TakeOwnership command) by the system.
The TBS device identifier has been generated.
The TPM was successfully provisioned and is now ready for use.
This event triggers the provisioning/health check for Trusted Platform Module (TPM).
The TPM has been cleared. Reason: SRK has changed or is not present..
The TBS device identifier has been generated.
The TPM was successfully provisioned and is now ready for use.
This event triggers the provisioning/health check for Trusted Platform Module (TPM).
The TPM has been cleared. Reason: SRK has changed or is not present..
The TBS device identifier has been generated.
The TPM was successfully provisioned and is now ready for use.
This event triggers the provisioning/health check for Trusted Platform Module (TPM).
The TPM has been cleared. Reason: SRK has changed or is not present..
The TBS device identifier has been generated.
The TPM was successfully provisioned and is now ready for use.
This event triggers the provisioning/health check for Trusted Platform Module (TPM).
The TPM has been cleared. Reason: SRK has changed or is not present..
The TBS device identifier has been generated.
The TPM was successfully provisioned and is now ready for use.
This event triggers the provisioning/health check for Trusted Platform Module (TPM).
The TPM has been cleared. Reason: SRK has changed or is not present..
The TBS device identifier has been generated.
The TPM was successfully provisioned and is now ready for use.
This event triggers the provisioning/health check for Trusted Platform Module (TPM).
The TPM has been cleared. Reason: SRK has changed or is not present..
The TBS device identifier has been generated.
The TPM was successfully provisioned and is now ready for use.
This event triggers the provisioning/health check for Trusted Platform Module (TPM).
The TPM has been cleared. Reason: SRK has changed or is not present..
The TBS device identifier has been generated.
The TPM was successfully provisioned and is now ready for use.
This event triggers the provisioning/health check for Trusted Platform Module (TPM).
The TPM has been cleared. Reason: SRK has changed or is not present..
The TBS device identifier has been generated.
The TPM was successfully provisioned and is now ready for use.
This event triggers the provisioning/health check for Trusted Platform Module (TPM).
The TPM has been cleared. Reason: SRK has changed or is not present..
The TBS device identifier has been generated.
The TPM was successfully provisioned and is now ready for use.
This event triggers the provisioning/health check for Trusted Platform Module (TPM).

 

I wonder if something is wrong it only shows information symbols tho.

 

 

8 hours ago, Frizz said:

Just putting a point out there, AMD GPUS can experience stutter on some DX11 games and it has nothing to do with HW faults. It more comes down to developer implementation vs driver coding. AMD systems have next to 0 issues on Vulcan because it optimizes how AMD uses its hardware long story short. So as with anything comped there are hundreds of reason why stutter may happen as lots of pieces go into working with fTPM...

Its not gpu stutter, its more like a whole lot of micro freezes happening rapidly for 5 seconds that effects entire system including controls sound framerate etc.

Anyway if had this once a day but also once a month if no idea why it became much more rare.

[Mojo-Jojo]

14 hours ago, Frizz said:

For sure! Hence my point if under load issues can be caused by in-optimizations and not hardware issues. Then it is far MORE likely under no load it isn't simply speaking hardware problems. Read the rest of this forum if you are confused as to why I bring that up

Correctable errors for example under almost no load would not simply lead to stutter. But edge-cases and poor optimization, oh yeah that happens far more then people realize. This is coming from someone who operates in the DC space and see lots of different cases and what causes them

Oh yeah I totally misunderstood your post. My bad man.

[Neryus]

Hello guys,

I have just registered to say that I have this issue too, and it is driving me nuts. It has been better the last 2 months, but it sill appears occasionally. The 2 videos that have been posted show the issue 1:1 like I have it. I'm glad I could find a reasonable explanation for this and that it's not specifically related to my device or Windows 11 itself.

If I understood this correctly, AMD still hasn't officially acknowledged this issue?

[morganthomas757]

+1 on this issue. I just saw an article about it and the video on the first page of the thread accurately describes the issue.

 

I'm running a Ryzen 9 5900X, RTX 3080 and Gigabyte Aorus X570 Elite Mobo. The stutters randomly happen, sometimes while I'm in YouTube, sometimes when I'm playing games. Always random, never one app triggers it. My TPM is on.

 

Glad it's not an isolated issue

[Cheki]

Is there a fix for this issue? since looking through 19 pages of replies hasn't seemed to of shown one, I've been having this issue too from the vids I have seen, just still unsure how to fix it if there is one

 

Side note - I stream, and whilst the stutter happens sometimes there, It doesn't show in the VOD, just thought that someone out there might want to know if they didnt :3

[SilentPrayerCG]

57 minutes ago, Cheki said:

Is there a fix for this issue? since looking through 19 pages of replies hasn't seemed to of shown one, I've been having this issue too from the vids I have seen, just still unsure how to fix it if there is one

 

Side note - I stream, and whilst the stutter happens sometimes there, It doesn't show in the VOD, just thought that someone out there might want to know if they didnt :3

1) disabling fTPM (if you use Windows 11, you can install it and then disable fTPM, but if you want play Valorant on win11 it force you to enable it back and also secure boot? Also as i understand some laptops don't allow you to disable it at all)

2) buying discrete TPM module (some reports it didn't helped, some reports it did)

3) this

 - but I'm don't know anything about this program and didn't tried, one dude reported it's not working for him.

[Guest -Senku-]

1 hour ago, Cheki said:

Is there a fix for this issue? since looking through 19 pages of replies hasn't seemed to of shown one, I've been having this issue too from the vids I have seen, just still unsure how to fix it if there is one

 

Side note - I stream, and whilst the stutter happens sometimes there, It doesn't show in the VOD, just thought that someone out there might want to know if they didnt :3

 

There are no, all fixes suggested other then disabling security device are placebo fixes that don't really work.

[Cheki]

54 minutes ago, SilentPrayerCG said:

1) disabling fTPM (if you use Windows 11, you can install it and then disable fTPM, but if you want play Valorant on win11 it force you to enable it back and also secure boot? Also as i understand some laptops don't allow you to disable it at all)

2) buying discrete TPM module (some reports it didn't helped, some reports it did)

3) this

 - but I'm don't know anything about this program and didn't tried, one dude reported it's not working for him.

 

21 minutes ago, -Senku- said:

 

There are non, all fixes suggested other then disabling security device are placebo fixes that don't really work.

ty, it's not happening enough to need a fix but since I saw this post pop up I thought I'd see if there was an actual fix

 

[Guest -Senku-]

Vivetool fix some one already reported he had tpm stutter

incase you figure that out to this is how you remove it.

.\vivetool delconfig 31621124 1

.\vivetool addconfig 31621124 1

Addconfig to add tweak, it disables some kind of logging, but i still think this wont fix it.

[Zupile]

Okay, I've been having this issue for months and I had tried literally everything possible, except for fTPM. It was driving me crazy!

 

I have a R5 3600, an ASUS B450M Gaming-pro and a 2060 Super and those stutters would happen randomly out of nowhere, while gaming or just watching youtube.

 

I can also confirm that downgrading back to windows 10 and disabling fTPM on bios finally solved the issue.

[AkikoKumagara]

On 1/30/2022 at 3:07 PM, -Senku- said:

discrete chips do not solve tpm stutter, had to do clean install was playing audio while installing a lot of stuff on my 980 pro 2 tb nvme from Samsung, and i had the longest tpm stutter, had a few very short tpm stutters to but haven't had one since i disabled SHA-1 which from if i understood is bassicly the old tpm 1.3 or 1.2 standard, which windows 11 can fall back to, but im not sure google is not exactly useful for searching that kind of info, im not a tpm tech wiz.

 

If you where hoping for a easy solution don't get your hopes up, also i would not call this ftpm stutter, its also happening with non ftpm chips

My discrete TPM did indeed solve the stutter, but it may not work for all of them.

Mine is a cheap clone of the MS-4136.

[Guest -Senku-]

1 hour ago, Soph3D said:

My discrete TPM did indeed solve the stutter, but it may not work for all of them.

Mine is a cheap clone of the MS-4136.

You have to realize the tpm stutter can only happen once a month or may happen while you are afk there no way to be sure its fixed.

[jmcc84]

I had the same issue and it was not just once a month or twice a day, it was SEVERAL TIMES A DAY both in games and windows general use (like browsing or listening to music), disabling AMD fTPM on BIOS solved the problem completely. PC Specs: Ryzen 5 2600, ASUS TUF B450M-PLUS GAMING, 16GB DDR4, GTX 1660. It happened even on Windows 10 when TPM was enabled, not just 11.

[AkikoKumagara]

8 hours ago, -Senku- said:

You have to realize the tpm stutter can only happen once a month or may happen while you are afk there no way to be sure its fixed.

I use my computer almost every waking hour of the day... I know if it's stuttering or not. I had the fTPM issue. I now have a discrete TPM and no issue. Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

[gymleader]

So I tried everything I could think of to try and see if the Windows 11 dev or insider builds fixed it as was indicated back in November of that MS thread. Either these latest builds now for some reason don't include the fix from November or something else is going on.

 

[stage]

Is there anyway to verify if it's in the new builds, does it have KB number or something? @gymleader

[gymleader]

There probably is but I was going under the assumption that the latest builds would retain the code that fixed it. The build I have is KB5008353 which was released January 25th 2022. 2 months after it was supposedly fixed. I actually wonder if this even has anything to do with the stuttering but so far it's the only lead so worth pursuing. To see if it has some merit I had an idea.

 

Anyone that knows they have stuttering should have the below event id when fTPM is on. Anyone that doesn't have stuttering shouldn't have the event id.

 

If anybody wants to help verify this:

 

1: Open event viewer and wait for it to load fully (5 seconds or so)

 

2: Under the error section you should see "CertificateServicesClient-CertEnroll" and double click it.

 

 

 

3: Verify an event id 86 was logged (most likely at system startup time). As you can see I tried alot of combinations.

 

 

Anyone that doesn't get stuttering and is sure they have fTPM enabled in BIOS should not see "CertificateServicesClient-CertEnroll" under the errors section since there is nothing to log.

 

e.g. @Soph3D if you try the above and you are correct in what you say, you should not see event id 86.