AMD fTPM causing random stuttering.

[stage]

I asked the same thing some pages back in my first posts, but no one answered me... Anyway I reconfirm.

[ryox]

 

[TreesP]

I'm not sure if this is helpful, but my events look a little different:

 

 

The last logs for me were Nov '21, this was around the time Lenovo released some very bad BIOS updates! While attempting to troubleshoot that mess I loaded the default BIOS settings which meant AMD PSP was set to on - the stutters returned of course.

 

Anyway, Lenovo pulled the problematic BIOS from the site and I flashed back to the previous version due to the issues and disabled PSP again. No such errors or stutters since *touches wood*. I am on Windows 10 though.

 

According to my update history, I was on Win 10 Version 21H1 - 19043.1288 at the time of these errors.

 

Currently on Win 10 21H1 - 19043.1466 if that matters.

[Guest -Senku-]

Any of you that has tpm stutter using non usb headset ? or non usb soundcard ?

[gymleader]

@TreesP Yeah that seems normal. Later BIOS probably had TPM on and previous BIOS you are on now did not thus no more errors.

 

Thanks @stage so far the theory is holding up (sorry if you mentioned it previously so much goes through your head with stuff like this you can miss things). I'm sure someone will disprove it soon enough.

[Amaranth]

On 1/31/2022 at 9:59 AM, djmakk said:

What motherboard?

The 5950x is on an X570 Aorus Xtreme and the 3950x is on a B550 PRO-VDH Wifi.

And I have since tested systems with a 3600x on an X570 TUF Gaming and a 5600x on a X570 Aorus Ultra and neither of them display the stuttering issue as well.

[Amaranth]

On 1/31/2022 at 5:40 PM, stage said:

Can you open Event viewer, and see if you got any SCEP Certification errors?

I'm not seeing any (on any of the three systems I initially mentioned or the two additional ones I was able to lay hands on for testing).

[AkikoKumagara]

7 hours ago, gymleader said:

There probably is but I was going under the assumption that the latest builds would retain the code that fixed it. The build I have is KB5008353 which was released January 25th 2022. 2 months after it was supposedly fixed. I actually wonder if this even has anything to do with the stuttering but so far it's the only lead so worth pursuing. To see if it has some merit I had an idea.

 

Anyone that knows they have stuttering should have the below event id when fTPM is on. Anyone that doesn't have stuttering shouldn't have the event id.

 

If anybody wants to help verify this:

 

1: Open event viewer and wait for it to load fully (5 seconds or so)

 

2: Under the error section you should see "CertificateServicesClient-CertEnroll" and double click it.

 

 

 

3: Verify an event id 86 was logged (most likely at system startup time). As you can see I tried alot of combinations.

 

 

Anyone that doesn't get stuttering and is sure they have fTPM enabled in BIOS should not see "CertificateServicesClient-CertEnroll" under the errors section since there is nothing to log.

 

e.g. @Soph3D if you try the above and you are correct in what you say, you should not see event id 86.

 

 

 

No error 86 here. 87 seems to be something similar, but is regarding TPM requiring a firmware update.

[gymleader]

Thank you @Soph3D

 

This does support the theory.

[djmakk]

19 hours ago, -Senku- said:

Any of you that has tpm stutter using non usb headset ? or non usb soundcard ?

Yes I went back to just usb keyboard and mouse for usb devices and 3.5mm for the audio... still happens. 

 

What do people's event log look like for Crypto-NCrypt? Mines full of errors. Not sure if thats related, but its what AMD is asking for logs of. If you want to see yours, do the following:

• Right Click on Start > Event Viewer > Application and Service Logs > Microsoft > Windows > Crypto-Ncrypt (double click) > Operational (double click)

 

EDIT

 

Checked another PC (3800x and MSI B550M PRO-VDH) it gets bunch of these errors too, not sure if this pc has the same stutter issues.

[djmakk]

3 hours ago, Soph3D said:

No error 86 here. 87 seems to be something similar, but is regarding TPM requiring a firmware update.

I get these event ID 86 errors, but the last one was mid December and I am still getting the stutter daily. 

[Tea Monster]

11 hours ago, -Senku- said:

Any of you that has tpm stutter using non usb headset ? or non usb soundcard ?

I now have a USB headset, but the one I was using when the problem first occurred was jack input. My soundcard is a realtek chip on the board.

Windows 10 Pro 64, AMD Ryzen 7 3700X,Gigabyte Aorus X570 Elite. Currently fTPM is disabled in BIOS.

 

[TreesP]

On 2/7/2022 at 3:26 AM, djmakk said:

What do people's event log look like for Crypto-NCrypt? Mines full of errors. Not sure if thats related, but its what AMD is asking for logs of. If you want to see yours, do the following:

• Right Click on Start > Event Viewer > Application and Service Logs > Microsoft > Windows > Crypto-Ncrypt (double click) > Operational (double click)

 

EDIT

 

Checked another PC (3800x and MSI B550M PRO-VDH) it gets bunch of these errors too, not sure if this pc has the same stutter issues.

1,977 errors for me since the end of September '21, that was the last time I reinstalled Windows before finding out about disabling PSP.

 

Seems to be full of event ID's 1, 2 and 4 with a few sporadic event ID 9's in there - "Key Write Succeeded".



Where is AMD asking to provide these logs? I'd happily submit mine if need be because I've just finished a month long back and forth with AMD support and that ended up going nowhere.

[djmakk]

1 hour ago, TreesP said:

1,977 errors for me since the end of September '21, that was the last time I reinstalled Windows before finding out about disabling PSP.

 

Seems to be full of event ID's 1, 2 and 4 with a few sporadic event ID 9's in there - "Key Write Succeeded".



Where is AMD asking to provide these logs? I'd happily submit mine if need be because I've just finished a month long back and forth with AMD support and that ended up going nowhere.

I've been back and forth with Asus and AMD over this issue for the past month. This is just the next step. Wish I knew if anyone was successful RMAing their motherboard and fixing this issue b/c im sure its not the CPU or I have very bad luck and ended up with 2 CPUs with the issue. Wish event viewer actually had a obvious error related to this so I could log it.

[Guest -Senku-]

Really doubt this is a hardware issue, if it was hardware issue it would happen even with it tpm disabled.

[TreesP]

I don't think this is a hardware issue either. This started for me more or less 1 year ago now, I think in my case the BIOS my laptop shipped with did not have PSP enabled, around a month later there was a BIOS update and that is when PSP was enabled by default and the stutters started.

 

I've had 3 repairs under warranty, replaced the motherboard, RAM, SSD, everything. In hindsight, not only was this a waste of time and resources, it was always returned with the same issue because it would ship back with PSP enabled, therefore it was deemed my fault or some software I was using.

 

I've been pretty hard on Lenovo over this, but to be fair, no one ever thought of PSP/fTPM. Only because of posts like this when people enabled TPM for Windows 11 and noticed the stutters did it click for them. For me at least, and I'm sure many others, who have had it enabled pretty much all the time would have never linked the two and tried everything else in the book to fix it, all to no avail.

 

TL;DR: 3 repairs and pretty much everything replaced. Always the same issue on return, so no, I don't think it's hardware either.

[luni6mi]

27 minutes ago, TreesP said:

I don't think this is a hardware issue either. This started for me more or less 1 year ago now, I think in my case the BIOS my laptop shipped with did not have PSP enabled, around a month later there was a BIOS update and that is when PSP was enabled by default and the stutters started.

 

I've had 3 repairs under warranty, replaced the motherboard, RAM, SSD, everything. In hindsight, not only was this a waste of time and resources, it was always returned with the same issue because it would ship back with PSP enabled, therefore it was deemed my fault or some software I was using.

 

I've been pretty hard on Lenovo over this, but to be fair, no one ever thought of PSP/fTPM. Only because of posts like this when people enabled TPM for Windows 11 and noticed the stutters did it click for them. For me at least, and I'm sure many others, who have had it enabled pretty much all the time would have never linked the two and tried everything else in the book to fix it, all to no avail.

 

TL;DR: 3 repairs and pretty much everything replaced. Always the same issue on return, so no, I don't think it's hardware either.

I'm sure that fTPM stuttering don't use hardware issue. Btw, I thought it was something more and less like software. 

[AkikoKumagara]

37 minutes ago, luni6mi said:

I'm sure that fTPM stuttering don't use hardware issue. Btw, I thought it was something more and less like software. 

It's most likely something that can be fixed with a TPM firmware update or something else in the chipset drivers; if not then maybe in motherboard bios.

It'd be easier to figure out what the cause of the issue is if AMD would stop pretending there isn't a problem, which is what's got me so frustrated about all of this.

 

We have to take into consideration that this issue only occurs in Windows and not in Linux or macOS (AMD vanilla)

It's most definitely something that is Windows-specific, such as PSP drivers.

[CraYu]

Catched it again on video, even playing such an old game it stutters...

 

 

[TreesP]

19 minutes ago, Soph3D said:

It'd be easier to figure out what the cause of the issue is if AMD would stop pretending there isn't a problem, which is what's got me so frustrated about all of this.

This is what grated on me a lot too. Lenovo were guilty of this, and more recently my dealings with AMD support. The generic copy and paste replies, being passed from person to person, "update drivers" etc that gets old really quick, especially when you know the issue is not down to you.

 

Although this is being talked about more now, which is great, are we any closer to resolving the problem? Not really.

 

It's one thing to have an issue, but how it's handled (or not) is another. A little clarity would go a long way I think.

[PhoboX]

On 2/6/2022 at 5:54 PM, gymleader said:

There probably is but I was going under the assumption that the latest builds would retain the code that fixed it. The build I have is KB5008353 which was released January 25th 2022. 2 months after it was supposedly fixed. I actually wonder if this even has anything to do with the stuttering but so far it's the only lead so worth pursuing. To see if it has some merit I had an idea.

 

Anyone that knows they have stuttering should have the below event id when fTPM is on. Anyone that doesn't have stuttering shouldn't have the event id.

 

If anybody wants to help verify this:

 

1: Open event viewer and wait for it to load fully (5 seconds or so)

 

2: Under the error section you should see "CertificateServicesClient-CertEnroll" and double click it.

 

 

 

3: Verify an event id 86 was logged (most likely at system startup time). As you can see I tried alot of combinations.

 

 

Anyone that doesn't get stuttering and is sure they have fTPM enabled in BIOS should not see "CertificateServicesClient-CertEnroll" under the errors section since there is nothing to log.

 

e.g. @Soph3D if you try the above and you are correct in what you say, you should not see event id 86.

 

 

 

Indeed, the event id 86 appears when I boot the PC with fTPM enabled.

Attachment screenshot:

 

[djmakk]

searching AMDs forum and found this post:

Quote

 

Re: AMD fTPM Causes Random Stuttering Issue

I am part of the Vanguard Beta GPU driver program .. this was posted over there in their Discord

"- for those of you affected by fTPM related stuttering with Ryzen CPUs, can you please try the following procedure to see if it resolves the issue: Details: Affected users may find Event Viewer Application and Service Logs\Microsoft\Windows\Crypto-Ncrypt\Operational events where Task Category is Open Provider Failure with status 0x80090030 (NTE_DEVICE_NOT_READY) indicating that the TPM may not have been provisioned correctly.

Solution 1 (Recommended): Running the TPM-Maintenance task may resolve this issue. The TPM-Maintenance task may be run automatically after restarting the PC. TPM-Maintenance may be found under Task Scheduler (Local)\Task Scheduler Library\Microsoft\Windows\TPM in the Task Scheduler App. Alternatively, run as admin: schtasks.exe /Run /TN Microsoft\Windows\TPM\TPM-Maintenance

Solution 2 (NOT recommended if you use Bitlocker): If this issue persists after running the TPM-Maintenance task, Clearing the TPM may resolve this issue. Run the Trusted Platform Module (TPM) Management console (TPM.msc) or open “Security Processor Troubleshooting” settings to find the command to clear the TPM. For more information, refer to this Microsoft article: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security-processor-troubleshooting-25e5020c-f763-4137-a3...

Warning: Clearing your TPM causes you to lose all TPM Keys. Be sure to back up your data and Bitlocker recovery keys before clearing the TPM or you may lose data. Try running the TPM-Maintenance task before Clearing your TPM.

https://community.amd.com/t5/drivers-software/amd-ftpm-causes-random-stuttering-issue/m-p/511128/highlight/true#M152668

 

I'm going to give it a shot. Lines up with the information AMD support has been requesting from me. 

[gymleader]

I can tell you that Solution 2 definitely doesn't work. That was in my day 1 testing and tried 2 different Windows installs after clearing the keys.

[djmakk]

11 minutes ago, gymleader said:

I can tell you that Solution 2 definitely doesn't work. That was in my day 1 testing and tried 2 different Windows installs after clearing the keys.

I'd read that as well about option 2 so I did option 1 and 2 in succession. IDK. worth a shot, no harm in trying (i dont use bitlocker).

[stage]

7 hours ago, djmakk said:

searching AMDs forum and found this post:

https://community.amd.com/t5/drivers-software/amd-ftpm-causes-random-stuttering-issue/m-p/511128/highlight/true#M152668

 

I'm going to give it a shot. Lines up with the information AMD support has been requesting from me. 

My expectations are low. (just so I don't get disappointed)