AMD fTPM causing random stuttering.

[TreesP]

I am honestly quite torn on this, and I'm hoping it doesn't come across negative because that is not the case.

 

Granted, I'm affected on a laptop so I can't buy a module even if I wanted to, and knowing how annoying this issue is, I can understand people buying a module and just getting on with things, especially if they cannot disable it in the BIOS. However, people should not have to pay to "fix" this, and it seriously needs addressing.

 

Again, not trying to knock anyone for spending their money because it was driving me crazy! So in that regard, I get it, I really do. I just don't think spending money should be encouraged or seen as an accepted way of fixing this going forward. AMD need to be pushed on this, as do the different manufacturers using their components.

 

Here's hoping something is done, and sooner rather than later.

 

On a lighter note, hopefully everyone had a good Christmas.

[luni6mi]

2 hours ago, TreesP said:

Sinceramente, estou meio dividido quanto a isso, e espero que não seja negativo, porque esse não é o caso.

 

Concedido, sou afetado em um laptop, então não posso comprar um módulo, mesmo se eu quiser, e sabendo como esse problema é irritante, posso entender as pessoas que compram um módulo e apenas continuam com as coisas, especialmente se não puderem desativar na BIOS. No entanto, as pessoas não deveriam ter que pagar para "consertar" isso, e isso precisa seriamente ser corrigido.

 

Mais uma vez, não estou tentando bater em ninguém por gastar seu dinheiro, porque isso estava me deixando louco! Então, nesse aspecto, eu entendo, eu realmente entendo. Só não acho que gastar dinheiro deva ser encorajado ou visto como uma forma aceita de consertar isso daqui para frente. A AMD precisa ser incentivada a isso, assim como os diferentes fabricantes que usam seus componentes.

 

Esperamos que algo seja feito, e mais cedo ou mais tarde.

 

Em uma nota mais leve, espero que todos tenham tido um bom Natal.

Totally right. I can buy when I want a module, but if I can disable the fTPM, I wont buy. This is totally frustrating but there's nothing we can do further.

[lmaonator]

Whelp, I saw that 2 shops in Austria have the original GIGABYTE GC-TPM2.0_S for the x570 Aorus Elite in stock at MSRP so I ended up buying that a couple days ago.

Just installed it, hopefully it works, will report back in a week or so, but from everything we know it will get rid of the stutters so 

[Raider0001]

1 week have passed since i reinstalled windows 11 as a standalone instead of an update i had tpm disabled in the bios before but now its enabled and... no stutters! i don't know if it was reinstalling or some windows updates but i think its fixed 

[djmakk]

I'm suffering from this on an Asus b550i (itx) board. Is there really no solution? I've done a full clean install of windows 11 and I still get this stutter. Can I just disable fTPM? I see reports of it just being turned back on automatically. 

 

If I were to by a hardware TPM how do I install it? what does it connect to?

[NimjaIV]

Quote

However, people should not have to pay to "fix" this, and it seriously needs addressing.

Spot on.

 

I love my 5600x, and Amd has done an amazing job getting on par with Intel hardware wise. But their software side is still very much behind. Little issues like this and the USB disconnect issues some people still have are things you can't really test for in  reviews but make a big impact on consumers and frankly keep AMD from truly competing. 

 

I know if a friend were to ask me right now what to buy I would say "AMD has done an amazing job recently! But you should get the Intel 12th Gen."

[djmakk]

I've started support with AMD and Asus. Asus seems to be taking me seriously with the info I've provided and the steps I've taken to pin point that the fTPM is the problem. They seem keen on trying to recreate the issue, but as many of you know, its quite hard to record it happening with anything except your own eyes/ears.

 

AMD still wants a dxdiag before we move forward with support. I'll do that tonight. 

[Tea Monster]

I am hoping that either AMD or MS will wake up and patch this with a driver fix. I kind of forgot about this issue. I've turned my fTPM off and I'm in no rush to experience Windows 11. 

 

[djmakk]

Small update, AMD is pretty sure its motherboard related. Said push your vendor to fix the bios, as the "fTPM features are provided by the motherboard and please let us know their suggestion."

So its not on the CPU but on the motherboard somewhere? I thought the motherboard was just accessing the feature on the cpu. At least I've learned something about this I guess. 

[SilentPrayerCG]

38 minutes ago, djmakk said:

Small update, AMD is pretty sure its motherboard related. Said push your vendor to fix the bios, as the "fTPM features are provided by the motherboard and please let us know their suggestion."

So its not on the CPU but on the motherboard somewhere? I thought the motherboard was just accessing the feature on the cpu. At least I've learned something about this I guess. 

As I understand common factor of this issue is AMD CPU, and everyone has different motherboards.
And also as I understand, again, fTPM located exactly on CPU, it's supposedly separated chip somewhere in CPU or something like that.

It's not on motherboard definitely, because AMD have fTPM and Intel one called differently. I guess motherboard provides interface to work with chip CPU one or discrete.

---
Checked Ali for discrete TPM, yeah, I'm not paying ~900₽ for some chip, that probably cost much, much less in production, at least for now.

 

Also I've noticed one thing, sometimes it seems that issue goes away.

I'm usually don't turn off PC, but just sleep it, and sometimes problem become less noticeable or not noticeable at all, may be even goes away completely,

but only until reboot.

I found it strange...

[Pouch02]

Its been like a year and this issue still has not been resolved. I can't even turn off my ftpm because for some reason Asus decided to force ftpm on everyone of their new laptop. I have talked to Asus support and they just refused to acknowledge the problem. When I sent my laptop back to them they told me they couldn't find any issue even though I told them that the stutter randomly happens and they have to sit down and play with it for a long while to reproduce it. Seriously, these manufacturers just don't give a shit.

[djmakk]

3 hours ago, SilentPrayerCG said:

As I understand common factor of this issue is AMD CPU, and everyone has different motherboards.
And also as I understand, again, fTPM located exactly on CPU, it's supposedly separated chip somewhere in CPU or something like that.

It's not on motherboard definitely, because AMD have fTPM and Intel one called differently. I guess motherboard provides interface to work with chip CPU one or discrete.

---
Checked Ali for discrete TPM, yeah, I'm not paying ~900₽ for some chip, that probably cost much, much less in production, at least for now.

 

Also I've noticed one thing, sometimes it seems that issue goes away.

I'm usually don't turn off PC, but just sleep it, and sometimes problem become less noticeable or not noticeable at all, may be even goes away completely,

but only until reboot.

I found it strange...

I think what's happening is the stutter is occurring when the OS is checking something related to the TPM and because it's happening at the hardware level, the OS can't detect itself stuttering. Like it doesn't even register a event in windows event viewer. 

 

Maybe AMD means they did it right and the motherboard vendor has messed something up. I know Asus is having issues across a bunch of different motherboards, what other brands are having this issue? I also have a b550 MSI board and its fine.

[Ragnus]

Also had the problems and I was lucky enough to find this thread.

 

The video and sound stutters were fixed for me as soon as I disabled the fTPM on my mobo.

 

Getting left out of w11 updates is a bummer though, I think I'll have to buy a discrete tpm as well.

 

Asrock B450m steel legend and 5600x here, latest bios.

 

 

 

 

[DiceGG]

Greetings fellow victims of this BS. I registered just for this problem.

This topic needs more attention.

 

3900x Asrock B550 Steel Legend.
Had to go back to Win10 to turn off TPM in the UEFI/BIOS. Latest BIOS available installed.
 Good news (maybe?): I heard this was already fixed in a developer version of Win11. So it seems we just have to wait for a stable channel release of the update.

[djmakk]

1 hour ago, DiceGG said:

 Good news (maybe?): I heard this was already fixed in a developer version of Win11. So it seems we just have to wait for a stable channel release of the update.

I want to believe

 

edit

 

read the last few months of the dev channel releases. I dont think they have. 

[Tea Monster]

I tried to install Gigabyte's app that manages drivers, RGB and BIOS updates. While it's updating, completely without permission or advice, I see it queing up Norton Antivirus for installation!!! WTF????!!!! Made me reconsider my several decades old choice of Gigabyte for motherboards if they are going to pull that crap. 

 

Cancelled out of all of that, removed the app and hoping it hasn't left a load of crap all over my hard drive. 

 

After that little debacle, I'm sitting as I am. This is a production machine and I'm not being a guinea pig for assorted hoovery from these idiots.

 

Oh, and I've worked in tech support for years djmakk, this is classic "There is nothing I or my superiors will do about this so go tell them to bug someone else."

 

[TreesP]

I had a different response from AMD. I had to edit some parts for privacy, but here is what they sent yesterday:

 

Quote

Dear ************,

Your service request : SR #{ticketno:[**************]} has been reviewed and updated.

Response and Service Request History:

 

Thank you for your email .

 

I understand that you are experiencieng the issue regarding fTPM/AMD PSP causing audio and video glitches/stutters.

 

I have viewed the dxdiag report ,I request  you to perform following troubleshooting steps and check the issue status .

 

1.Windows missing critical and or important updates

Keep your operating system up to date by installing all available recommended and critical updates
For instructions on how to update Windows 10 please refer to kb article: Update Windows 10
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/update-windows-3c5ae7fc-9fb6-9af1-1984-b5e0412c556a

 

2.I request you to update chipset drivers to the latest version by visiting the below link .
https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/socket-fp5-mobile/amd-ryzen-and-athlon-mobile-chipset

 

3.I request  you to update your processor drivers to the latest available version .
https://www.amd.com/en/support/apu/amd-ryzen-processors/amd-ryzen-7-mobile-processors-radeon-graphics/amd-ryzen-7-4800h

 

while installing drivers please tick on factory reset optional ,Please visit the below link to know more
https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/dh3-039

4.Also I suggest you to please update your NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 to the latest version by visiting the below link .
https://www.nvidia.in/Download/driverResults.aspx/184742/en-in

 

Thanks for contacting AMD

 

In order to update this service request, please respond without deleting or modifying the service request reference number in the email subject or in the email correspondence below.

Please Note: This service request will automatically close if we do not receive a response within 10 days and cannot be reopened.

If it is not feasible to respond within 10 days, feel free to open a new service request and reference this ticket for continued support.

Best regards,

***********

AMD Global Customer Care

 

It is incredibly disrespectful to get such a generic response given the issue. If they knew the nonsense myself and others have been through troubleshooting this and all they have is "update drivers". It has honestly made me quite angry.

 

I don't think anyone cares about it - AMD or the manufacturers using their components. Best option is to spend your money elsewhere in the future.

[djmakk]

16 hours ago, TreesP said:

I had a different response from AMD. I had to edit some parts for privacy, but here is what they sent yesterday:

 

 

It is incredibly disrespectful to get such a generic response given the issue. If they knew the nonsense myself and others have been through troubleshooting this and all they have is "update drivers". It has honestly made me quite angry.

 

I don't think anyone cares about it - AMD or the manufacturers using their components. Best option is to spend your money elsewhere in the future.

I got that too, told them I'm on latest everything and then I got this response:

Quote

 

Response and Service Request History:

Thank you for the resposne.

I would suggest you to please reach out to your motherboard manufacture once since FTPM feature are provided by the motherboard and please let us know their suggestion.

Thank you for contacting AMD.

In order to update this service request, please respond without deleting or modifying the service request reference number in the email subject or in the email correspondence below.

Please Note: This service request will automatically close if we do not receive a response within 10 days and cannot be reopened.

If it is not feasible to respond within 10 days, feel free to open a new service request and reference this ticket for continued support.

Best regards,

 

If anyone wants to pile on, I added my vote and comments to this Feedback Post on Microsofts Feeback. Seems to be the most poplar one:

https://aka.ms/AAdp03i

[HarrySIX]

I've been trying to deal with this for ages so here's my story. In my case, I get this type of stutter 3-4 times a day. Regardless of what programs I'm running. I run Windows 11 and there is no way for me to turn off fTPM, as it automatically enables itself after every reboot (edit: I've turned it off now). Oh yeah, and I've had this issue on 4 different AMD based systems. I should have learned by now.

 

Anyway, I have a brand new PC with:

AMD RYZEN 9 5950X

ASUS PRIME X570-P

CORSAIR VENGEANCE LPX DDR4 3200MHZ 32GB

NVIDIA EVGA RTX 3080 TI

Samsung 980 PRO 2TB

All of my software (including BIOS) and drivers are up to date.

 

I managed to capture one of these hitches while streaming, here's what it looked like:

From what I've gathered my best two options are to downgrade to Win10 so I can disable fTPM, or to buy a discrete TPM. Though I don't see a TPM connector on my motherboard, so I don't know if the latter is even possible. Help

[TreesP]

24 minutes ago, HarrySIX said:

I've been trying to deal with this for ages so here's my story. In my case, I get this type of stutter 3-4 times a day. Regardless of what programs I'm running. I run Windows 11 and there is no way for me to turn off fTPM, as it automatically enables itself after every reboot. Oh yeah, and I've had this issue on 4 different AMD based systems. I should have learned by now.

 

Anyway, I have a brand new PC with:

AMD RYZEN 9 5950X

ASUS PRIME X570-P

CORSAIR VENGEANCE LPX DDR4 3200MHZ 32GB

NVIDIA EVGA RTX 3080 TI

Samsung 980 PRO 2TB

All of my software (including BIOS) and drivers are up to date.

 

I managed to capture one of these hitches while streaming, here's what it looked like:

From what I've gathered my best two options are to downgrade to Win10 so I can disable fTPM, or to buy a discrete TPM. Though I don't see a TPM connector on my motherboard, so I don't know if the latter is even possible. Help

Geez, watching that video bought back some horrible memories of just how annoying this is! I have similar videos.

 

Is Microsoft really enforcing fTPM for everyone at boot now? Is that a new thing in an update? I thought you could safely disable it after the install without any problem?

 

I've only tried Windows 11 on an old laptop that doesn't meet any of the requirements, so it couldn't be forced on regardless.

 

It's probably worth going back to Windows 10 just to get rid of the stutters, do you have a Windows 10 backup you can restore? Shouldn't have to if you're happy with Windows 11 but what choice do you have? I can't see this being fixed any time soon.

 

Can't help with the module I'm afraid, but hopefully someone here can.

[HarrySIX]

3 minutes ago, TreesP said:

Geez, watching that video bought back some horrible memories of just how annoying this is! I have similar videos.

 

Is Microsoft really enforcing fTPM for everyone at boot now? Is that a new thing in an update? I thought you could safely disable it after the install without any problem?

 

I've only tried Windows 11 on an old laptop that doesn't meet any of the requirements, so it couldn't be forced on regardless.

 

It's probably worth going back to Windows 10 just to get rid of the stutters, do you have a Windows 10 backup you can restore? Shouldn't have to if you're happy with Windows 11 but what choice do you have? I can't see this being fixed any time soon.

 

Can't help with the module I'm afraid, but hopefully someone here can.

I thought I'd never have to see it again after returning my last system (Lenovo Legion 5) 8 months ago, sadly I was wrong. I've tried switching the fTPM to the discrete TPM in the BIOS, but it instantly resets back to fTPM after rebooting unfortunately. 

 

The PC came with Windows 11 pre-installed, so I'd have to do a clean install of Windows 10 to try that. That's not tackling the issue at its roots though, which I'm not a fan of.

 

One strange but noticable thing is that this issue didn't appear in the first week I had the system. After the first week of using it I travelled to a different country with the PC, and all of a sudden it started stuttering after setting it up again. It almost seems like my current environment (like my location, things I plug in to the PC, etc.) causes this issue, but that doesn't make sense given what the issue seems to be. The fact that I've had 4 AMD based systems here and they all have had this issue is mind boggling to me. I'm so confused

[TreesP]

11 minutes ago, HarrySIX said:

I thought I'd never have to see it again after returning my last system (Lenovo Legion 5) 8 months ago, sadly I was wrong. I've tried switching the fTPM to the discrete TPM in the BIOS, but it instantly resets back to fTPM after rebooting unfortunately. 

 

The PC came with Windows 11 pre-installed, so I'd have to do a clean install of Windows 10 to try that. That's not tackling the issue at its roots though, which I'm not a fan of.

 

One strange but noticable thing is that this issue didn't appear in the first week I had the system. After the first week of using it I travelled to a different country with the PC, and all of a sudden it started stuttering after setting it up again. It almost seems like my current environment (like my location, things I plug in to the PC, etc.) causes this issue, but that doesn't make sense given what the issue seems to be. The fact that I've had 4 AMD based systems here and they all have had this issue is mind boggling to me. I'm so confused

Ha, I'm using a Legion 5 myself. I don't blame you for getting out, Lenovo are just terrible! They certainly don't care about this.

 

It's definitely a strange issue, it doesn't surprise me you had a period without seeing the stutters, I had quiet times too but it ALWAYS returned just when you thought you were free from it!

 

Perhaps being pre-installed is why it is being forced on? Just a thought, but you could try installing Windows 11 using an ISO that bypasses the requirements? That is what I did and had no issues getting updates etc, I just didn't care too much for Windows 11 personally. Of course, you'd have to reinstall from scratch and it's not guaranteed to work, but it might allow you to keep using Windows 11 without fTPM being forced on at boot?

 

Rufus 3.16 or newer adds the option to bypass requirements:

 

https://rufus.ie/downloads/

 

https://www.ghacks.net/2021/10/11/disable-tpm-secure-boot-and-ram-requirements-for-windows-11/

 

Backup your current system just in case you need to restore it though, or wait to see if someone can advise you on the module.

[HarrySIX]

22 minutes ago, TreesP said:

Ha, I'm using a Legion 5 myself. I don't blame you for getting out, Lenovo are just terrible! They certainly don't care about this.

 

It's definitely a strange issue, it doesn't surprise me you had a period without seeing the stutters, I had quiet times too but it ALWAYS returned just when you thought you were free from it!

 

Perhaps being pre-installed is why it is being forced on? Just a thought, but you could try installing Windows 11 using an ISO that bypasses the requirements? That is what I did and had no issues getting updates etc, I just didn't care too much for Windows 11 personally. Of course, you'd have to reinstall from scratch and it's not guaranteed to work, but it might allow you to keep using Windows 11 without fTPM being forced on at boot?

 

Rufus 3.16 or newer adds the option to bypass requirements:

 

https://rufus.ie/downloads/

 

https://www.ghacks.net/2021/10/11/disable-tpm-secure-boot-and-ram-requirements-for-windows-11/

 

Backup your current system just in case you need to restore it though, or wait to see if someone can advise you on the module.

I've had 3 different Legion 5 / Legion 5 Pro models, all returned with this same issue. Shit sucks. 

 

Did you manage to get rid of the stutters? I'm not too fussed about Windows 11 so I wouldn't mind doing a normal clean install of Windows 10 if that would also fix the issue. Not sure what to try next though. I'll wait a little longer to see whether I can find any other solutions or if anyone has any other ideas. Thanks for your suggestions regardless!

 

 

[TreesP]

7 minutes ago, HarrySIX said:

I've had 3 different Legion 5 / Legion 5 Pro models, all returned with this same issue. Shit sucks. 

 

Did you manage to get rid of the stutters? I'm not too fussed about Windows 11 so I wouldn't mind doing a normal clean install of Windows 10 if that would also fix the issue. Not sure what to try next though. I'll wait a little longer to see whether I can find any other solutions or if anyone has any other ideas. Thanks for your suggestions regardless!

 

 

I'm happy that you got away from Lenovo, 3 machines with the same issue? That just shows how common this really is. They are essentially selling faulty machines! It's disgraceful.

 

Well, you could say it's fixed for me, I had the issue for nearly a year, tried everything with no joy! The only thing that works is disabling AMD PSP in the BIOS. I wish I'd found this thread much sooner, it could have saved months of headache and pointless troubleshooting.

 

Sadly, I doubt you will find any other fix for this other than disabling fTPM if you can. It is the only thing that works.

[HarrySIX]

9 hours ago, TreesP said:

I'm happy that you got away from Lenovo, 3 machines with the same issue? That just shows how common this really is. They are essentially selling faulty machines! It's disgraceful.

 

Well, you could say it's fixed for me, I had the issue for nearly a year, tried everything with no joy! The only thing that works is disabling AMD PSP in the BIOS. I wish I'd found this thread much sooner, it could have saved months of headache and pointless troubleshooting.

 

Sadly, I doubt you will find any other fix for this other than disabling fTPM if you can. It is the only thing that works.

Yep, this headache inducing bug has a 100% success rate with me. Having 3 different models with the same issue made me think I caused the stuttering myself by installing or plugging in something that was funky with AMD. Guess not. Thankfully you found a fix for it though, even if it took a while! If I get it sorted I'll post an update.

 

Update: I've managed to disable my fTPM. If the stuttering is gone now, I will happily downgrade to Windows 10 so I don't have to worry about not receiving Windows updates. Fingers crossed.