Discouraged from PC building

[VelikiPCguy]

Hey all, I've recently decided to build my first PC but I have to admit I'm feeling a bit deflated about that idea at the moment.

 

I recently spoke to a family acquaintance / friend who works in IT, and he basically vehemently tried to dissuade me from building my own PC. He basically said "there are so many things that can go wrong, it wouldn't even be worth it for me to try to explain all of it to you, just get a prebuilt one [he suggested the new Alienware] where you know everything works". He said if I just went ahead and mashed together all of the "best" parts, as I had planned to do, that quite possibly wouldn't be a workable PC, and it could just stop working 3 months in for no apparent reason, or not even want to turn on at all.

 

I mean I really don't know what to think of that now. I guess, maybe? Like I'm very inexperienced in this, but I haven't gotten the impression that building a PC requires this gem-cutting level of precision / knowledge etc. I've taken a look at PC Part Picker, everything seems compatible, and the only error messages I got were:

 

·        Warning! Some AMD X570 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Vermeer CPUs. Upgrading the BIOS may require a different CPU that is supported by older BIOS revisions. [further research determined that most newer X570 motherboards come with a BIOS update installed, and if they don't, I can always flash one on]

·         Note: The G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3800 CL14 Memory operating voltage of 1.5 V exceeds the AMD Zen 3 CPU recommended maximum of 1.35 V+7% (1.444 V). This memory module may run at a reduced clock rate to meet the 1.35 V voltage recommendation, or may require running at a voltage greater than the AMD recommended maximum. [I found many forum posts basically saying ignore the voltage warning for your RAM, it won't affect anything; I'll admit I'm less confident about accepting that solution than the BIOS update above, but still, it doesn't strike me as something impossible to change (I can always get another RAM)]

 

So what am I missing? Where's that potentially fatal flaw that might crop its head a few months in? Is PC building REALLY that incredibly fatal error-prone? I've watched so many hours of LTT, PC Centric, JayzTwoCents, not to mention the LTT forum and Reddit subofurms. I'm not claiming to be a hardware expert now by any means, but c'mon, surely some catastrophic flaw warning would've cropped up somewhere?

 

Sorry if this is a bit ranty, I'm just feeling a bit discouraged about pursuing this idea now.

 

Thanks for any input!

[Tonyx]

2 minutes ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

there are so many things that can go wrong, it wouldn't even be worth it for me to try to explain all of it to you, just get a prebuilt one where you know everything works"

Bullshit

 

But i think you want to push RAM a little bit too much, is not guarantee you can overclock 4 sticks of RAM at 3800mhz cl14

And i dont think is worth compared to a much cheaper 2x16gb 3600mhz cl16 you 100% sure it will work.

 

[Kilrah]

7 minutes ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

Is PC building REALLY that incredibly fatal error-prone?

No, it's just that if something ends up breaking or not working you'll have to troubleshoot yourself, maybe try to get access to or buy parts to try and swap that may or may not solve the problem etc, while with a prebuilt you just contact support and let them deal with it (which can be its own pain anyway).

 

There's nothing wrong with building your own, what that person said basically means they don't want to help you with it, and feel that if you're making your own build and have issues you'll come to them and they don't want to deal with it so they recommend you to buy a prebuilt to avoid the situation. 

[WhitetailAni]

On 5/20/2021 at 6:18 AM, NewwGuyy123 said:

He basically said "there are so many things that can go wrong, it wouldn't even be worth it for me to try to explain all of it to you, just get a prebuilt one [he suggested the new Alienware] where you know everything works".

Absolute crap. This is not true.

On 5/20/2021 at 6:18 AM, NewwGuyy123 said:

I've taken a look at PC Part Picker, everything seems compatible, and the only error messages I got were:

 

·        Warning! Some AMD X570 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Vermeer CPUs. Upgrading the BIOS may require a different CPU that is supported by older BIOS revisions. [further research determined that most newer X570 motherboards come with a BIOS update installed, and if they don't, I can always flash one on]

·         Note: The G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3800 CL14 Memory operating voltage of 1.5 V exceeds the AMD Zen 3 CPU recommended maximum of 1.35 V+7% (1.444 V). This memory module may run at a reduced clock rate to meet the 1.35 V voltage recommendation, or may require running at a voltage greater than the AMD recommended maximum.

These two errors are fine and expected. Most X570 boards now are new enough to support Ryzen 5000, and the RAM warning is pointless. However, I don't recommend getting the 4-stick 3800 C14 kit you have - while Ryzen's memory controllers have come a long way it will be hard for most CPUs, whether AMD or Intel to run all 4 sticks at this speed and latency.

On 5/20/2021 at 6:18 AM, NewwGuyy123 said:

So what am I missing? Where's that potentially fatal flaw that might crop its head a few months in? Is PC building REALLY that incredibly fatal error-prone? I've watched so many hours of LTT, PC Centric, JayzTwoCents, not to mention the LTT forum and Reddit subofurms. I'm not claiming to be a hardware expert now by any means, but c'mon, surely some catastrophic flaw warning would've cropped up somewhere?

Absolutely nothing. I decided to get into computers because my dad gave me his old one. I was quite nervous at first, but i started learning more and here I am, with a build that's only 1/3 of what my dad gave it to me as.

[jaslion]

The others pretty much said it all by now but I would like to add something.

 

Building a pc NOW is not a good choice due to the highly inflated prices for gpu's. This is where prebuilts come in much cheaper and they are legit a good idea to buy now.

 

Also what will you do on your pc and what will the parts be you chose? You might want to make a topic for that so we can help you pick better parts if you do choose to build one instead of buying a prebuilt. So you can avoid having any wrong parts/worse for the money stuff/...

[VelikiPCguy]

9 minutes ago, Tonyx said:

But i think you want to push RAM a little bit too much, is not guarantee you can overclock 4 sticks of RAM at 3800mhz cl14

Not even if I turn on XMP? Will that slow down / reduce the lifespan of my parts?

[VelikiPCguy]

7 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

There's nothing wrong with building your own, what that person said basically means they don't want to help you with it, and feel that if you're making your own build and have issues you'll come to them and they don't want to deal with it so they recommend you to buy a prebuilt to avoid the situation. 

Haha yeah that was kind of the impression I got as well, or at least of an "old school" IT guy who maybe thinks building your own is as difficult as it was 20 years ago

[Alan G]

The only issue these days is the availability of certain parts such as GPUs, some CPUs and some RAM because of pandemic disruptions (and in the case of GPUs, over interest in crypto mining).  I have probably done 15 or so builds over the years and, knock on wood, have not had any issues with gettng the PC up and running.   I don't do any overclocking and I'm not a gamer so my needs are somewhat modest.  I am a photographer and amateur programmer so the max demands on my demands on my system are largely dictated by Adobe programs and compiling times in the case of programming.  If you have a #2 Phillips screwdriver and perhaps a smaller one if you want to install an nvme m2 unit and can follow simple directions, you can build a computer.  If you are just starting out don't work with an mITX MoBo/case, stick to ATX and a roomy case as you won't get frustrated by the small spaces.

 

I stick to Intel CPUs and have never had to worry about BIOS compatibility (disclosure: I'm also an Intel shareholder).  YMMV.

[VelikiPCguy]

7 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

However, I don't recommend getting the 40stick 3800 C14 kit you have - while Ryzen's memory controllers have come a long way it will be hard for most CPUs, whether AMD or Intel to run all 4 sticks at this speed and latency.

Hmm interesting, so even if I use XMP this might be a problem? In what sense, will it slow down my PC, damage the memory perhaps?

[jaslion]

1 minute ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

Hmm interesting, so even if I use XMP this might be a problem? In what sense, will it slow down my PC, damage the memory perhaps?

Well the thing is the ryzen memory controller runs at 1800mhz at stock and thus 3600mhz ram is the perfect 1:1 ratio for it resulting in the best performance higher clocked ram actually tends to perform worse. You can overclock the memory controller but this is luck of the draw of which chip you get. The gains are minimal. Doing this with 4 sticks of ram makes your chances to pull it off astronomically smaller.

[VelikiPCguy]

7 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Building a pc NOW is not a good choice due to the highly inflated prices for gpu's. This is where prebuilts come in much cheaper and they are legit a good idea to buy now.

 

Also what will you do on your pc and what will the parts be you chose? You might want to make a topic for that so we can help you pick better parts if you do choose to build one instead of buying a prebuilt. So you can avoid having any wrong parts/worse for the money stuff/...

Yeah that's an entirely fair point, if I'm lucky enough to snag a GPU at normal price it'll be great, if not I might consider a pre-built one just for the GPU.

 

I mean mainly I intend to use the PC for high-end gaming, though I am trying to make it a bit overkill both for personal satisfaction and futureproofing (to the extent that futureproofing is even possible). Thank you, I'm finalising a list and I'll post it here soon to get people's opinions

[Stahlmann]

2 minutes ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

Hmm interesting, so even if I use XMP this might be a problem? In what sense, will it slow down my PC, damage the memory perhaps?

Just get a 3600MHz cl16 kit. It's pretty much guaranteed to work and you'll maybe lose 5% performance in some very RAM heavy workload. In gaming i bet you it's not noticeable.

 

If you can manage to get a GPU somehow, imo it's always better to build your own PC. But in case you absolutley want a pre-built, don't go for DELL. They have pretty much shown how to not do it in the past few months. Horrible support, hidden charges, poprietary parts that can't be reused, etc. The whole package.

[Kilrah]

13 minutes ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

Haha yeah that was kind of the impression I got as well, or at least of an "old school" IT guy who maybe thinks building your own is as difficult as it was 20 years ago

Eh, I built my first PC 25 years ago out of scrap parts, it wasn't even harder than now

 

One thing is that "IT guy" doesn't mean they do hardware, a lot of them are software guys and actually treat the hardware as black boxes they interestingly almost don't understand, so it's maybe not his thing and gets annoyed people assume it is. 

[jaslion]

Just now, NewwGuyy123 said:

Yeah that's an entirely fair point, if I'm lucky enough to snag a GPU at normal price it'll be great, if not I might consider a pre-built one just for the GPU.

 

I mean mainly I intend to use the PC for high-end gaming, though I am trying to make it a bit overkill both for personal satisfaction and futureproofing (to the extent that futureproofing is even possible). Thank you, I'm finalising a list and I'll post it here soon to get people's opinions

Making a system overkill now isn't always a good idea. As often this results in it being replaced at the same time anyways as other one or 2 steps down systems or at most a little later whilst costing a lot more. So it is often best to get a high end system but not waste money as that means you'll have money to do a upgrade say 3 years later instead of having spent a lot on something that will be out of date in that time too and only give performance you are happy with for max a year longer.

 

Best example would be the first gen titan. You payed double that of a 780ti for 20% more performance. 4 years later the780ti isn't that great of a card anymore and doesn't do well at higher framerates at all anymore (lets say it gets a average of 80fps at what you want). That titan that cost you double gives you 16 more fps (if perfect scaling is a thing) but you really want 100 minimum. Sure a year ago the 780ti might have been on the edge already whilst the titan was still doing ok but that person that bought the 780ti could have easily gotten a 1070 for the money you spent extra on the titan an be having a much better gaming experience.

[VelikiPCguy]

4 minutes ago, jaslion said:

the ryzen memory controller runs at 1800mhz at stock and thus 3600mhz ram is the perfect 1:1 ratio for it resulting in the best performance higher clocked ram actually tends to perform worse. You can overclock the memory controller but this is luck of the draw of which chip you get. The gains are minimal.

Hmm but looking at the specs of the mobo on cnet (https://www.cnet.com/products/gigabyte-x570-aorus-master-1-0-motherboard-atx-socket-am4-amd-x570/), it seems the stock speed only goes up to 3200MHz, everything else you'll have to overclock.

 

6 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Doing this with 4 sticks of ram makes your chances to pull it off astronomically smaller.

I thought XMP was just an on/off switch haha, now you're saying I'll have to mess with each stick individually?

[jaslion]

3 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Eh, I built my first PC 25 years ago out of scrap parts, it wasn't even harder than now

 

One thing is that "IT guy" doesn't mean they do hardware, a lot of them are software guys and actually treat the hardware as black boxes they interestingly almost don't understand, so it's maybe not his thing amd gets annoyed people assume it is. 

Yeah this is super funny. I'm the IT guy that is the jack of all trades master of none person and it is really funny when you identify a problem immediately where the IT guy that basically only does software has tried for hours. IT doesn't even have to be anything internal even could just be as simple as a simple setting in the bios, a cable in the wrong port,...

[jaslion]

1 minute ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

Hmm but looking at the specs of the mobo on cnet (https://www.cnet.com/products/gigabyte-x570-aorus-master-1-0-motherboard-atx-socket-am4-amd-x570/), it seems the stock speed only goes up to 3200MHz, everything else you'll have to overclock.

 

I thought XMP was just an on/off switch haha, now you're saying I'll have to mess with each stick individually?

xmp is a on off and hope it works. For 3800mhz to make sense you NEED to oc your memory controller otherwise it will always perform worse than if it was a 3600mhz because you went over the 1:1 ratio. Sometimes you have to manually add the times for the memory if you are using not officially tested memory on the board.

 

Also any reason for that board? It doesn't do anything better for someone that is just gaming that a 150$ board cannot do.

[VelikiPCguy]

7 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

Just get a 3600MHz cl16 kit. It's pretty much guaranteed to work and you'll maybe lose 5% performance in some very RAM heavy workload. In gaming i bet you it's not noticeable.

So with a 3800MHz CL14 kit (7.3ns delay), and a 3600 CL16 kit (8.8ns delay), you're saying it'll be at most a 5% difference in performance? And not really relevant in gaming? So what kind of thing would be a RAM heavy workload?

[Jamesev]

30 minutes ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

Hey all, I've recently decided to build my first PC but I have to admit I'm feeling a bit deflated about that idea at the moment.

 

I recently spoke to a family acquaintance / friend who works in IT, and he basically vehemently tried to dissuade me from building my own PC. He basically said "there are so many things that can go wrong, it wouldn't even be worth it for me to try to explain all of it to you, just get a prebuilt one [he suggested the new Alienware] where you know everything works". He said if I just went ahead and mashed together all of the "best" parts, as I had planned to do, that quite possibly wouldn't be a workable PC, and it could just stop working 3 months in for no apparent reason, or not even want to turn on at all.

 

I mean I really don't know what to think of that now. I guess, maybe? Like I'm very inexperienced in this, but I haven't gotten the impression that building a PC requires this gem-cutting level of precision / knowledge etc. I've taken a look at PC Part Picker, everything seems compatible, and the only error messages I got were:

 

·        Warning! Some AMD X570 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Vermeer CPUs. Upgrading the BIOS may require a different CPU that is supported by older BIOS revisions. [further research determined that most newer X570 motherboards come with a BIOS update installed, and if they don't, I can always flash one on]

·         Note: The G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3800 CL14 Memory operating voltage of 1.5 V exceeds the AMD Zen 3 CPU recommended maximum of 1.35 V+7% (1.444 V). This memory module may run at a reduced clock rate to meet the 1.35 V voltage recommendation, or may require running at a voltage greater than the AMD recommended maximum. [I found many forum posts basically saying ignore the voltage warning for your RAM, it won't affect anything; I'll admit I'm less confident about accepting that solution than the BIOS update above, but still, it doesn't strike me as something impossible to change (I can always get another RAM)]

 

So what am I missing? Where's that potentially fatal flaw that might crop its head a few months in? Is PC building REALLY that incredibly fatal error-prone? I've watched so many hours of LTT, PC Centric, JayzTwoCents, not to mention the LTT forum and Reddit subofurms. I'm not claiming to be a hardware expert now by any means, but c'mon, surely some catastrophic flaw warning would've cropped up somewhere?

 

Sorry if this is a bit ranty, I'm just feeling a bit discouraged about pursuing this idea now.

 

Thanks for any input!

Just think of the smugness you can display when you build your own and its EXACTLY what you want and it really wasnt that difficult. I suspect most things are daunting the first time you try them eg driving a car etc but if we never did anything for the first time life experiences would be very limited. 

[Stahlmann]

Just now, NewwGuyy123 said:

So with a 3800MHz CL14 kit (7.3ns delay), and a 3600 CL16 kit (8.8ns delay), you're saying it'll be at most a 5% difference in performance? And not really relevant in gaming? So what kind of thing would be a RAM heavy workload?

Tbh i have no idea what workload would be RAM heavy. I'm not doing any kind of work on my PC. But for a gaming PC it's just not worth the hassle to try a kit that likely won't work compared to just using another RAM kit that just works. Going for 3800MHz cl14 won't give you any noticeable advantage if gaming is your main concern.

[LogicalDrm]

39 minutes ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

Hey all, I've recently decided to build my first PC but I have to admit I'm feeling a bit deflated about that idea at the moment.

 

I recently spoke to a family acquaintance / friend who works in IT, and he basically vehemently tried to dissuade me from building my own PC. He basically said "there are so many things that can go wrong, it wouldn't even be worth it for me to try to explain all of it to you, just get a prebuilt one [he suggested the new Alienware] where you know everything works". He said if I just went ahead and mashed together all of the "best" parts, as I had planned to do, that quite possibly wouldn't be a workable PC, and it could just stop working 3 months in for no apparent reason, or not even want to turn on at all.

They sound like they are projecting their situations at work to you. Like if they are having constantly to deal with custom PC builds and troubleshooting them, possibly correcting mistakes made by those who build them, it can and will get into your head. There are couple benefits of pre-builds, one being that if something goes wrong, you can just contact support or send whole PC back to be fixed. With custom build, you have to do troubleshooting yourself, or pay someone to do it for you.

 

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I mean I really don't know what to think of that now. I guess, maybe? Like I'm very inexperienced in this, but I haven't gotten the impression that building a PC requires this gem-cutting level of precision / knowledge etc. I've taken a look at PC Part Picker, everything seems compatible, and the only error messages I got were:

We all have been inexperienced first. The question is, are you willing to put in the work researching, building and troubleshooting takes? Along with possible stress when something suddenly doesn't work? Like look at recent video where Sarah build her PC. It caused raised hearth-rates to camera crew and her all.

 

 

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·        Warning! Some AMD X570 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Vermeer CPUs. Upgrading the BIOS may require a different CPU that is supported by older BIOS revisions. [further research determined that most newer X570 motherboards come with a BIOS update installed, and if they don't, I can always flash one on]

This is because chipset is for the previous generation and if you have too old board, it doesn't boot with newer CPU. So easy solution is to pick newer chipset. Or if you are local to PC hardware store, let them update BIOS as you need older CPU to do it.  (should be something like $50 to do it at most.)

 

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So what am I missing? Where's that potentially fatal flaw that might crop its head a few months in? Is PC building REALLY that incredibly fatal error-prone?

Any part can die. Be it in custom build or prebuild. Thats not the thing to get hang on. Its the troubleshooting and replacing stuff that is not working. Or it could be fine for next 5-10 years until you upgrade.

 

Last hiccup I had with parts was year ago. BSOD because Windows update messed something, had to reseat GPU to fix. Last hardware to die was 6 years ago, and that was personal mistake. Used wrom cable. Before that I bricked mobo, also own mistake (bent like 100 pins because of mishandling, €70 for new board).

 

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I've watched so many hours of LTT, PC Centric, JayzTwoCents, not to mention the LTT forum and Reddit subofurms. I'm not claiming to be a hardware expert now by any means, but c'mon, surely some catastrophic flaw warning would've cropped up somewhere?

Anyone who claims that there's some catastrophic thing that will happen to all who build by themselves are full of BS. They should be saying it about everything. Such things get dug up fast if they are a thing. Last that I do remember was back with early Ryzen having issues with cooler bending mobos. Also some issues with 2nd gen Ryzen mobo's overheating.

 

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Sorry if this is a bit ranty, I'm just feeling a bit discouraged about pursuing this idea now.

Because of one bad person? Let me give you advice, don't let any one person to effect you. In good or in bad. Look at multiple opinions, and make decision when you think you have heard all sides. That minimizes any disappointments, but can maximize the good feeling when you get after everything has been working perfect for years.

Edited May 20, 2021 by LogicalDrm

[Helpful Tech Witch]

56 minutes ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

"there are so many things that can go wrong, it wouldn't even be worth it for me to try to explain all of it to you, just get a prebuilt one [he suggested the new Alienware] where you know everything works".

Bull.

Never, never, never get a Alienware (oh god the amount of warranties you'll buy without knowing). They look good, but must have proprietary parts, one fan, and a PSU that comes half ready to explode. Avoid the big names, HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc... Something like a cyberpower, iBuyPower, or similar would be much better.

 

Those errors are normal. You might have to update the bios on an amd board, that's expected. Usually a x570 will have a option to update the board without a compatible cpu.

The ram Voltage thing is normal for gskill trident, and many people are fine and run it at that voltage. In fact, it's much more likely that xmp will turn on and be stable at higher voltages

 

It sounds like the it either 

A: is mostly software basses and doesn't do hardware stuff much, or 

B: hasn't built a PC for years, and is thinking back to the 386 days. From what I can tell there was a lot more shit to go wrong.

 

The only reason to get a prebuilt right now is gpu availability. Prebuilts often come with gpus, something that's unobtanium for most of the world RN.

[Avocado Diaboli]

I agree with your acquaintance with the sentiment that "mashing together all the best parts" is not the best way to go about it. There's no reason to waste money on a 5950X and a 3090 just to have the best possible components if you have absolutely no use case for it. And given your RAM choice, it seems like that's what you intended to do. 

 

But if you take the time to research your parts a bit, there's nothing inherently bad or dangerous with building your own PCs. Granted, I may not have the most experience in that regard since I'm currently only on my 4th PC that I personally have built from scratch in the last ~20 years, and yes my first one was a terrible mismatch of components because I thought I knew what I was doing when I wasn't and too proud to ask for advice, but given that you're here, you have the resources of validating this stuff before you commit to a purchase and even in case of a technical problem, people who are willing and able to help.

 

Troubleshooting can be a bitch and a half as I've recently had the displeasure of finding out again and the stress that comes with that really isn't pleasant. So if you don't want to deal with that, a prebuilt can save you some headaches. But again, if you ask for advice before you pull the trigger and buy the components, people can point out obvious mistakes so you don't have any nasty surprises. And as for building the computer, if you follow a build guide, they can lead you through the process as well.

 

Just one tip that I often see missing when people talk about assembling a PC: Always keep your motherboard's manual within reach. I mean, that's true for every piece of hardware, but especially for the motherboard. It's pretty much a how-to guide on how to install all the components and whenever something does go wrong, you've got an appendix full of error codes that the onboard display might spit out or error LEDs that hint at where the problem might be.

 

But, as others have pointed out already, now is not a good time to build a PC in terms of cost, unfortunately. But that should be the only reason to dissuade you from building one, not the process of assembling, maintaining and troubleshooting the hardware.

[Tegneren]

58 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Well the thing is the ryzen memory controller runs at 1800mhz at stock and thus 3600mhz ram is the perfect 1:1 ratio for it resulting in the best performance higher clocked ram actually tends to perform worse. You can overclock the memory controller but this is luck of the draw of which chip you get. The gains are minimal. Doing this with 4 sticks of ram makes your chances to pull it off astronomically smaller.

No it dont. As default it runs at 1:1 ratio with RAM up to 1800MHz

[dkoudijs]

1 hour ago, Kilrah said:

Eh, I built my first PC 25 years ago out of scrap parts, it wasn't even harder than now

 

One thing is that "IT guy" doesn't mean they do hardware, a lot of them are software guys and actually treat the hardware as black boxes they interestingly almost don't understand, so it's maybe not his thing and gets annoyed people assume it is. 

That is normally the case now, as well he may have just had way more machines break than a normal person would see. Hence he would rather it be under warrenty and someone else's problem then requiring him to fix it.

 

I do the samething at work, yes I could build them all for the staff, or just buy an office desktop from dell/hp and its someone elses problem when it breaks.