"X scales well with an amp", what does it mean?

[iM8Pizza]

Hello phellas, good day.
I have a question regarding 'scales well', honestly not sure what that is, saw it couple of times when people talk about earphones and amplifier, like, "X scales well with an amp".
So what does it mean by 'it scales well'. If said earphone can be heard just fine without an amp, doesn't it just makes it goes louder and adds coloration?
Thanks, I'm just wondering, in now way I'm judging (badly) on these people that said it.

[Mling]

it means the copper/quality can handle increased power from an amp. It's sales jargon.

[SupaKomputa]

Some high quality earphones can operate better on higher sound output which usually limited by the power output from a PC or Smartphones.

Headphones are rated in ohms, the higher the better quality potential, pc audio usually supports up to 32 ohm, lower in most smartphones (25 ohm).

Headphones with high impedance (ohm) needs a higher power output, this is where the amps can be beneficial.

So using a earphone with 32ohm rating with an amp can boost the quality from the smartphone output.

[rice guru]

When a headphone "scales well with amps" means the more power, or the higher the quality amp used certain aspects of the sound gets better, it's pretty different from headphone to headphone, and generally every headphone has the ability to "scale" feed a headphone cleaner power your gonna get closer to the full potential of the headphone. impedance , driver quality, impedance, and sound signature have a lot to do with scaling well. It's definitely one of those things you have to experience yourself like many things in audio to a 100% understand. And unfortunately becuase a lot of the perceived benefits are hard to measure- impossible to measure . and a lot of the results end up being super anecdotal it's one of the subjects the objectivists and subjectivists sides fo the hobby love to argue about. 

[iM8Pizza]

I see, thank you all for the replies.

I bought a Superlux HD 330 (150 ohm 96db *can't find whether it's SPL/V or SPL/mW) couple of days ago and turns out my PC can run it just find, at the same volume as my other headphone Khastadio CS-01 (32 ohm), all directly plugged to my motherboard (ASrock B450M-HDV R4.0). Same case with my phone. So there's no need to get an amp, but the 'scale well' thing piqued my interest, and it seems, unfortunately, it needs to be tried out.

 

So maybe I'll try out an amp, but honestly speaking i don't expect anything else other than it to color the sound and makes it goes louder, would a cmoy amp be nice to start with? it's pretty cheap, the one I'm looking at atm, only $10 basically.
https://www.tokopedia.com/asoundco/cmoy-amplifier-headphone-with-bass-boost?whid=0

List Parts :
1. Metal film resistor
2. MKT Cap Pilkor (Korea)
3. MKM Capacitor
4. Elco Panasonic dan Jackson
6. Carbon Resistor
and uses IC NE5532 opamp
 

[SupaKomputa]

Yeah why not, just try it, it's only $10. I highly doubt the quality, but who knows.

If your headphones is rated for 150, then it will make use of more power output from the amp.

[HenrySalayne]

2 hours ago, SupaKomputa said:

Headphones are rated in ohms, the higher the better quality potential

Impedance and quality is not related at all.

 

2 hours ago, rice guru said:

And unfortunately becuase a lot of the perceived benefits are hard to measure- impossible to measure

If it's not measurable, it's not there. A measurement is several magnitudes more precise than the human ear.

 

2 hours ago, iM8Pizza said:

So maybe I'll try out an amp, but honestly speaking i don't expect anything else other than it to color the sound and makes it goes louder, would a cmoy amp be nice to start with? it's pretty cheap, the one I'm looking at atm, only $10 basically.
https://www.tokopedia.com/asoundco/cmoy-amplifier-headphone-with-bass-boost?whid=0

The NE5532 is a really old opamp design and it's nothing special nowadays. It was an affordable and adequate solution 30 years ago.
An opamp is barely capable of driving headphones and it's not much more than your average mainboard could do. If you really want a headphone amplifier, get a proper design. There are many ICs designed for this purpose.

 

[iM8Pizza]

wah, Thanks for enlightening me further more on the matter, I know that NE5532 is an old opamp design, I read a bit about it, but didn't know that's what the average mainboard could do, which is probably where my motherboard lies. Anyway, on the subject of said opamp, it's replaceable, just unplug it and plug another (just in case you don't know from the description of the product, but sorry if you already know about it), any IC that you would recommend if I do indeed get it?
on the subject of amplifier, I actually have a Fiio A1 that's currently at my brother's house, how does it compare and is it actually good for the matter of scaling well? (sorry for the lack of wording here).

Fiio A1 amp uses TPA6130A2 and 74HC4052PW＋OPA2322AID for the bass boost function https://www.fiio.com/a1_parameters

 

Cheers!

[geo3]

4 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

If it's not measurable, it's not there. A measurement is several magnitudes more precise than the human ear.

Really? You can measure frequency response and THD, sure.

 

But how do measure sound stage or imaging, how about instrument separation? Cohesiveness?  

 

 

[Ahoy Hoy]

3 minutes ago, geo3 said:

But how do measure sound stage or imaging, how about instrument separation? Cohesiveness?  

Sound stage is easily measurable as its due to positioning of drivers and the direction the sound hits the ear but theres no point measuring it like that as people dont have the same ears. It also nullifies why anyone should even comment on it as my ears are not your ears so what I think a good sound stage is is not the same as yours.
Thats why it doesnt affect in ears as there in the ear so cant be affect by the outer ear shape and the inner ear is a lot more similar between people. 


Instrument separation cohesiveness in reference to sound sources like headphones and speakers is audiophile bull shit. Thats all to do with the audio and how it was recorded or affects applied. Applying different pans and phases to instruments in the mix will make it sound separated.

[HenrySalayne]

1 hour ago, geo3 said:

But how do measure sound stage or imaging, how about instrument separation? Cohesiveness?  

I can edit single notes of a chord with Melodyne, but I cannot measure the level difference and latency of coherent signals? Please...

You can measure and analyse everything. It's just physics and there is no magic involved.

 

2 hours ago, iM8Pizza said:

Anyway, on the subject of said opamp, it's replaceable, just unplug it and plug another (just in case you don't know from the description of the product, but sorry if you already know about it), any IC that you would recommend if I do indeed get it?

Opamps are not designed to drive (low-impedance) loads, they are merely signal amplifiers and cannot supply enough current. That's a fundamental problem of this design. There are some more specialized opamps like the OPA2604, which is designed for low-impedance loads (600 Ohm in this case!).
If you really want an outstanding and powerful headphone amplifier, you probably have to get your hands dirty. There are a lot of ICs on the market and the "example" provided in most data sheets is probably enough to make them work or maybe you find a schematic somewhere online. And most are also found in readily available products. You can get a complete PCB with an TPA6120A2 for a few bucks. 

Or check this great DIY source for some ideas: https://sound-au.com/projects-0.htm#hdp

[iM8Pizza]

Just now, HenrySalayne said:

Opamps are not designed to drive (low-impedance) loads, they are merely signal amplifiers and cannot supply enough current. That's a fundamental problem of this design. There are some more specialized opamps like the OPA2604, which is designed for low-impedance loads (600 Ohm in this case!).

If you really want an outstanding and powerful headphone amplifier, you probably have to get your hands dirty. There are a lot of ICs on the market and the "example" provided in most data sheets is probably enough to make them work or maybe you find a schematic somewhere online. And most are also found in readily available products. You can get a complete PCB with an TPA6120A2 for a few bucks. 

Or check this great DIY source for some ideas: https://sound-au.com/projects-0.htm#hdp

That's the schematic (I think, no it's not a schematic) that the seller provides. as for OPA2604, I can find them for $1+ish online so it's no biggie to get it after getting this particular cMoy.
Thank you for that link, I will bookmark it for now, and maybe actually make them when I get a soldering station.

[Psittac]

Didn't read the other replies, but my perfect example is the Sennheiser 6xx.  It is very revealing of the entire chain whether it's source all the way to the cable connected.  I have a hard time being able to describe differences but I know them when I see them.  One of the first A/B/C testing I did was on my 6xx and I was like "oh that's nice.... oh that's a little different........" then ehrmahgerd gag me with a spoon.  Turns out the XLR to 2.5mm adapter I had was pure garbage and it was immediately apparent.  Never buying cables from Amazon again.

 

Anyways I don't know if this is the same thing as "scales well with amp" but the 6xx is very transparent of everything in the chain, which is why it loves tubes so much, it picks up on the potentially minimal changes and makes the "drastic".