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Paying in meme - Elon Musk offers money to help Dogecoin become ‘currency of the internet’ and Dogecoin price rockets after.

Lightwreather
By Lightwreather
in Tech News
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Posted
18 minutes ago, Sauron said:

With the way things are right now he can't get burned. If you have enough money the rules don't apply to you unless you do something insane like killing someone on live television (and even then there may be exceptions...).

Is he breaking rules by influencing the price of a cryptocurrency though? I thought the big thing about crypto is that it is unregulated and there's no central governing body?

Remember to either quote or @mention others, so they are notified of your reply

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Posted
1 minute ago, Eigenvektor said:

Is he breaking rules by influencing the price of a cryptocurrency though?

I'm not saying he is, I'm saying he should be breaking a rule by doing this and that there should be consequences for it.

1 minute ago, Eigenvektor said:

I thought the big thing about crypto is that it is unregulated and there's no central governing body?

Just because the crypto itself doesn't have a governing body doesn't mean you're not subject to laws while using it or talking about it 🤔 it just means no state entity controls its emission or its value. The same goes for, say, your chair by the way.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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Posted
4 hours ago, Sauron said:

I wish idiots like Musk could be held accountable for the people they influence into throwing away their money.

Why? At the end of the day Elon is by no means forcibly making someone invest in anything. It's their choice and money

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just now, Sauron said:

I'm not saying he is, I'm saying he should be breaking a rule by doing this and that there should be consequences for it.

I see nothing wrong with influencing the "value" of a cryptocurrency (especially one that was invented as a joke/meme). In fact I'd say it's an excellent and satirical way to demonstrate just how silly it is to attach value to something that is manipulated this easily.

 

Unless cryptocurrency is accepted as an official currency by some country and said country starts regulating the currency, I see little chance of anyone getting punished over influencing that market. Asking for punishment is, imho, completely anathema to the whole idea of an unregulated crypto-currency market. You can't have it both ways.

Remember to either quote or @mention others, so they are notified of your reply

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4 hours ago, Sauron said:

I wish idiots like Musk could be held accountable for the people they influence into throwing away their money.

Everyone knows Elon is a memelord, if people want to throw away their money for a meme, it's their choice. Same thing with reddit and we like the stock.

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55 minutes ago, Eigenvektor said:

In fact I'd say it's an excellent and satirical way to demonstrate just how silly it is to attach value to something that is manipulated this easily.

 

Unless cryptocurrency is accepted as an official currency by some country and said country starts regulating the currency, I see little chance of anyone getting punished over influencing that market. Asking for punishment is, imho, completely anathema to the whole idea of an unregulated crypto-currency market. You can't have it both ways.

I don't care if the crypto market gets regulated, in fact I think it probably should at least in so far as having to pay taxes on the crypto you own.

 

As for the "satire", you could make the same argument about the entire stock market. And it's not very funny if people end up losing their livelihood because you said you'd use dogecoin on mars.

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4 hours ago, Sauron said:

I wish idiots like Musk could be held accountable for the people they influence into throwing away their money.

 

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

A bigger issue would be distinguishing between people like Musk who clearly have enough outreach and influence to do damage with things like this and someone just memeing online... while the extremes are easy to spot the line is hard to draw. I think in this case one might be able to "get him" on technically having insider information on spacex' plans for their future Mars missions...

 

So, out of curiosity, what is your opinion on Linus/GameStop?  Given what Linus had said, and the fact he bought it (albeit while it was going down) would potentially make it illegal.  Actually, anyone who bought GME for the purpose of forcing the short sellers to buy at a higher price would be manipulating the market.  (think buying it because you think the stock will increase, vs buying a stock to force a short squeeze/hurt short sellers...one is market manipulation and one speculative buying).

 

Honestly though at this point, short of Elon actually saying something intentionally to create a pump and dump scenario for himself, I don't think there is much wrong with what he is doing.  What I did find wrong was his joke about Tesla being sold at the $420...that did cross the line (and he was punished via fines and restrictions).  Intent is also the key as well.  The fact that people are blindly following what he is saying/his actions are more so their own faults at this stage.  He literally is doing some of this for a meme/joke...it's like trying to fault him for the Signal stock increasing when he was promoting Signal App (despite the fact that the Signal stock had nothing to do with the Signal App)

3735928559 - Beware of the dead beef

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2 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

So, out of curiosity, what is your opinion on Linus/GameStop?  Given what Linus had said, and the fact he bought it (albeit while it was going down) would potentially make it illegal.

I don't know what Linus said on GME, I kind of missed that drama. If he said something illegal then I guess he said something illegal..? I'm not arguing Musk did something illegal here, I'm saying I wish it were illegal so he'd face some consequences for it.

4 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Actually, anyone who bought GME for the purpose of forcing the short sellers to buy at a higher price would be manipulating the market.

Buying GME for whatever purpose is just operating within the same rules as everyone else. Going online and lying about why you should or should not buy it however could count as manipulation or fraud though. If you go on reddit and say "omg I made 100 trillion on GME it's definitely going to go up buy buy buy" then yeah, that's not ok. Kinda like Musk saying "I'm going to buy all your dogecoin and make it the official currency on Mars" despite probably having no intention of doing either and not really having the power to do the latter anyway (yet, at least, and hopefully it stays that way).

8 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Honestly though at this point, short of Elon actually saying something intentionally to create a pump and dump scenario for himself, I don't think there is much wrong with what he is doing.

It's probably not illegal - but I'd say it's wrong to get gullible people who look up to you to make risky investments by using your platform irresponsibly.

11 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

The fact that people are blindly following what he is saying/his actions are more so their own faults at this stage.  He literally is doing some of this for a meme/joke...

Nah, he knows what he's doing. Either that or he's incredibly stupid. Just because something is a joke doesn't mean it can't have perfecly predictable consequences.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

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13 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Buying GME for whatever purpose is just operating within the same rules as everyone else.

Not really, buying for the intent to force the hand of another into a losing position to force a short squeeze is market manipulation.  Buying it because you believe it's oversold and you feel it will increase is okay.    The fact that you buy for the purpose of hurting people with a short position (and "holding" the stock for that purpose) is market manipulation.

 

18 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Nah, he knows what he's doing. Either that or he's incredibly stupid. Just because something is a joke doesn't mean it can't have perfecly predictable consequences.

Him saying that he is buying it had little effect (his prior tweets before doing so did help increase the price...but then again it also increased the price of all cryptocurrencies)....and he was going along with the meme.  I mean at most it created a 20% boost originally...but realistically it's sitting at a 10% gain, but that still puts it 20% lower than it was a week ago.

 

Perhaps he does believe in it though, but that wouldn't make too much of a difference to me either...given you have companies like Facebook are trying to establish their own currencies

3735928559 - Beware of the dead beef

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32 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I don't care if the crypto market gets regulated, in fact I think it probably should at least in so far as having to pay taxes on the crypto you own.

It's already taxed. Here in the Netherlands it counts as a source of income and they ask you to state your wealth in crypto in a dedicated part of the form if you have any. From what I've read in the US it's taxed as capital gain (each trade) or income (mining). You telling them you have any is another point of course, but I guess not saying you have them technically could fall under tax evasion nowadays?

 

Elon's just pumping a trollcoin so he can amass actual worthwhile alts on the cheap lol. I enjoy the meme, but also agree it's a bit irresponsible, given the amount of influence he has and people are genuinely investing money into Doge. I hope they read up and either invest in a worthwhile one or keep the money... (or be responsible and not invest a ton).

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2 hours ago, Sauron said:

With the way things are right now he can't get burned. If you have enough money the rules don't apply to you unless you do something insane like killing someone on live television (and even then there may be exceptions...). How has the system "clamped down" on him in any significant way so far? I'm certain that a credible threat of jail time would get him to shut up instantly.

 

A bigger issue would be distinguishing between people like Musk who clearly have enough outreach and influence to do damage with things like this and someone just memeing online... while the extremes are easy to spot the line is hard to draw. I think in this case one might be able to "get him" on technically having insider information on spacex' plans for their future Mars missions...

Even if money weren’t a problem, intent is still a difficult hurdle to overcome in the best case. Potentially a lengthy uphill battle for prosecutors unless Elon leaves out a smoking gun.  
 

The line is difficult to draw as The First Amendment needs to be factored into creation of the rules that the SEC puts into place, hence the requirement to prove intent. Further, even if an individual has a lot of influence, they’re still equally entitled to the same First Amendment protections as the rest of us. As to whether or not this should be the case is certainly a matter to be debated. 

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