Why won't anyone test VRR on Ampere cards?

[mac_angel]

I've asked on so many sites and no one ever answers. I'm honestly really confused about this. Variable Refresh Rate was one of the new big things that is standard with HDMI2.1. It is even on some HDMI2.0 devices. NVidia also states on their site that the new RTX 30 Series cards are specifically HDMI2.1 AND support VRR.
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/rtx-30-series-hdmi-2-1/

This means ANY TV that supports VRR, not just TVs that are G-Sync 'capable' like the LGs. There are MANY TVs that are out there that either have HDMI2.1, or support VRR over HDMI2.0. Many of the mid range and up Samsung TVs for starters. There are so many sites that have done reviews on the Ampere cards, but not a single one has tested or reviewed this. And honestly, it gets rather annoying that this is one of the major features of HDMI2.1, a major complaint by gamers in having to pay a premium for G-Sync displays when their counterparts are much cheaper, and that there are so many 4K TVs out there that are pretty good for gaming. You can find 55" Samsung Q60 Series TVs starting at $750CAN, or 65" for $1000CAN. You can't find a 4K monitor anywhere close to that size for that price range. And more and more people are gaming on TVs now. That's even been posted on Linus Tech Tips Youtube videos.

[Radium_Angel]

2 minutes ago, mac_angel said:

I've asked on so many sites and no one ever answers. I'm honestly really confused about this. Variable Refresh Rate was one of the new big things that is standard with HDMI2.1. It is even on some HDMI2.0 devices. NVidia also states on their site that the new RTX 30 Series cards are specifically HDMI2.1 AND support VRR.
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/rtx-30-series-hdmi-2-1/

This means ANY TV that supports VRR, not just TVs that are G-Sync 'capable' like the LGs. There are MANY TVs that are out there that either have HDMI2.1, or support VRR over HDMI2.0. Many of the mid range and up Samsung TVs for starters. There are so many sites that have done reviews on the Ampere cards, but not a single one has tested or reviewed this. And honestly, it gets rather annoying that this is one of the major features of HDMI2.1, a major complaint by gamers in having to pay a premium for G-Sync displays when their counterparts are much cheaper, and that there are so many 4K TVs out there that are pretty good for gaming. You can find 55" Samsung Q60 Series TVs starting at $750CAN, or 65" for $1000CAN. You can't find a 4K monitor anywhere close to that size for that price range. And more and more people are gaming on TVs now. That's even been posted on Linus Tech Tips Youtube videos.

They are all waiting for you to step up and do it. 

[Sakkura]

The TVs are too big for most of us.

[mac_angel]

1 hour ago, Radium_Angel said:

They are all waiting for you to step up and do it. 

All these sites have the GPUs, and some even have the TVs. If these sites are reviewing the GPUs, they should be including all the tech that is advertised by the companies.

[mac_angel]

1 hour ago, Sakkura said:

The TVs are too big for most of us.

more and more people are gaming on big screens. That's why a few companies like Acer, Asus, and Alienware came out with their 65" OLED gaming displays, which were pretty much TVs. They are still being sold. Just like LG is paying for G-Sync compatibility. Because there's a market for it. There's enough people interested in big displays to create a market. And you can get a TLC 55" 4K TV with a decent response time for gaming for just a couple of hundred dollars.

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, mac_angel said:

more and more people are gaming on big screens. That's why a few companies like Acer, Asus, and Alienware came out with their 65" OLED gaming displays, which were pretty much TVs. They are still being sold. Just like LG is paying for G-Sync compatibility. Because there's a market for it. There's enough people interested in big displays to create a market. And you can get a TLC 55" 4K TV with a decent response time for gaming for just a couple of hundred dollars.

I thought that was a great question tbh, but I just looked on Amazon, there doesn't seem to be a single TV with freesync (which btw is a requirement for games to make use of VRR, according to rtings)

 

So maybe that's why no one tests it, it's extremely niche, and apparently mostly unavailable even when those TVs exist, in theory... (I checked rtings and Amazon...) 

 

 

3 hours ago, mac_angel said:

This means ANY TV that supports VRR,

just to be clear, that doesnt appear to be the case, it needs free sync or g sync, and those aren't only extremely rare, they're also very expensive. 

 

 

 

Thats not to say they shouldn't test it, they should, but I can see why they wouldn't... 

 

 

 

Big OOF. 

[Sakkura]

7 hours ago, mac_angel said:

more and more people are gaming on big screens. That's why a few companies like Acer, Asus, and Alienware came out with their 65" OLED gaming displays, which were pretty much TVs. They are still being sold. Just like LG is paying for G-Sync compatibility. Because there's a market for it. There's enough people interested in big displays to create a market. And you can get a TLC 55" 4K TV with a decent response time for gaming for just a couple of hundred dollars.

Sure there's a market, it's just much smaller. 

[mac_angel]

9 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

I thought that was a great question tbh, but I just looked on Amazon, there doesn't seem to be a single TV with freesync (which btw is a requirement for games to make use of VRR, according to rtings)

 

So maybe that's why no one tests it, it's extremely niche, and apparently mostly unavailable even when those TVs exist, in theory... (I checked rtings and Amazon...) 

 

 

just to be clear, that doesnt appear to be the case, it needs free sync or g sync, and those aren't only extremely rare, they're also very expensive. 

 

 

 

Thats not to say they shouldn't test it, they should, but I can see why they wouldn't... 

 

 

 

Big OOF. 

Variable Refresh Rate is the same as FreeSync. FreeSync is just AMD's name for it. There are a number of TVs, particularly Samsung, that do support FreeSync, or Variable Refresh Rate, either on HDMI2.0b, or newer TVs that have HDMI2.1, which VRR is a standard. With VRR being a full licensed standard as part of HDMI2.1, that means anything that says it is HDMI2.1 must be licensed, and comply with the standardization.
https://hdmi.org/spec/hdmi2_1

NVidia also posts on their own site, HDMI 2.1, The New Standard For TVs, Is Supported By GeForce RTX 30 Series GPUs. This also has a link to a number of Samsung TVs that specifically say "Variable Refresh Rate", but no mention of "FreeSync". Variable Refresh Rate is FreeSync, just AMD has been using the name for years. The HDMI group could not use that name since it's been used by another company.
There are also a number of TVs that are HDMI 2.0b, and NOT HDMI 2.1 that also support VRR, or "FreeSync". Don't forget that HDMI 2.1 became standardized back in 2017. Rtings.org has a list of VRR compatible TVs here. I'm not sure how complete it is, but you can see there are a LOT of TVs that can do it.

 

 

[mac_angel]

3 hours ago, Sakkura said:

Sure there's a market, it's just much smaller. 

The market for gaming TVs is a lot bigger than those buying the RTX3090.
Regardless of what people might think the marketshare may be, this is still an advertised feature that NVidia has posted. And this also does not specifically have to be TVs with VRR. Variable Refresh Rate is a standard of HDMI 2.1. So ANY display, TV or Monitor that has HDMI 2.1, or even older ones that are HDMI 2.0b that have VRR (FreeSync) included should be considered to be tested with Ampere cards. HDMI 2.1 now on Ampere cards means people do NOT have to buy G-Sync certified displays, TVs or otherwise. I think that's a pretty big deal, especially with the markup of G-Sync compatible displays over their counterparts.

I also find it annoying that Linus, Jay (Jay's Two Cents), Steve (Gamers Nexus), and others that have all these Ampere cards that have done reviews on them, but left this out, but now are messing around with extreme cooling and SLI to go after high scores in benchmarks. Not blaming them for having the cards, but you mentioned a market much smaller, I'll point out again that the RTX 3090, especially SLI, is going to be incredibly tiny compared to people being able to buy a TV that supports VRR. The Samsung 2019 RU8000 55" 4K TV was $600CAN, and it supports VRR (Freesync). An RTX 3090 is going for about $2500CAN.

[Sakkura]

2 hours ago, mac_angel said:

Variable Refresh Rate is the same as FreeSync. FreeSync is just AMD's name for it. There are a number of TVs, particularly Samsung, that do support FreeSync, or Variable Refresh Rate, either on HDMI2.0b, or newer TVs that have HDMI2.1, which VRR is a standard. With VRR being a full licensed standard as part of HDMI2.1, that means anything that says it is HDMI2.1 must be licensed, and comply with the standardization.
https://hdmi.org/spec/hdmi2_1

Just because the standard supports VRR doesn't mean a particular TV has to support VRR. AFAIK VRR is an optional feature, so manufacturers can advertise HDMI 2.1 support without actually offering VRR functionality.

[mac_angel]

52 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

Just because the standard supports VRR doesn't mean a particular TV has to support VRR. AFAIK VRR is an optional feature, so manufacturers can advertise HDMI 2.1 support without actually offering VRR functionality.

 

no, it's a standard for HDMI 2.1, not an option. It is/was an option for HDMI 2.0b. And there are a lot of Samsung TVs that are HDMI 2.0b and support VRR.

Rtings.com have posted a list here of a lot of TVs that support VRR. I'm not sure how complete it is, but it shows that there are a lot of TVs that do support VRR. And NVidia posts here that their RTX 30 series cards support VRR and that it IS the new standard for TVs with HDMI 2.1, as well as VRR being supported by the RTX 30 Series cards.

 

EDIT: Also, on that link to NVidia's site, they have a link in there for Samsung TVs that support VRR, but are NOT G-Sync certified. So even NVidia is posting that they are compatible with a number of VRR TVs that are not G-Sync certified, but again, no one has done any testing.

[Mark Kaine]

27 minutes ago, mac_angel said:

no one has done any testing.

I mean I already said I agree, this should be tested, but the situation is really muddy.. I've looked this up *again* hard requirement seems to be to "enable free sync"... so even if this is wrong, that's what all the publications I found were saying... 

 

the information about this all is really lackluster, and again, I agree, its weird nobody like GN, LTT, etc has been testing this. 

 

just a basic it works / doesn't work / isn't worth it would be good already. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[mac_angel]

57 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

I mean I already said I agree, this should be tested, but the situation is really muddy.. I've looked this up *again* hard requirement seems to be to "enable free sync"... so even if this is wrong, that's what all the publications I found were saying... 

 

the information about this all is really lackluster, and again, I agree, its weird nobody like GN, LTT, etc has been testing this. 

 

just a basic it works / doesn't work / isn't worth it would be good already. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

agreed. And I'm baffled at why. Like, it's not even mentioned in any of the reviews, and to me, I think it would be a really big deal. As I said, not just TVs, but ALL displays that have HDMI 2.1 and/or FreeSync. One of the reasons I'm so interested in this is because I do have three Samsung TVs that support VRR. I don't have an Ampere card because I can't get my hands on one. But I am very interested in knowing how VRR might work on it. And I'm sure there are a LOT of other people that would be interested, if it was mentioned in the reviews. It's like the saying goes, "People don't know what they don't know". So, a lot of people don't seem to know that VRR is a standard in HDMI 2.1. A lot of the tech review companies that did reviews on the RTX 30 Series cards (written format), did list it off as one of the features of the new cards, but no one has done any testing on it. And for the most part, if these tech review companies don't talk about it, most of the people won't know about it. The majority of people that checked out all the reviews were just there for the benchmarks, so they skipped to the part they were interested in. I've sent an email in to Linus and Jay, as well as posted in other forums asking about this. Googled the hell out of it. No one knows, it's a mystery. Linus and Jay never responded. I've asked some of the writers of the tech reviews about it, they never respond either. The only mention online is NVidia advertising it, or people only referring to LG TVs that are G-Sync certified.

[mac_angel]

and the thread died without an answer still. Baffled.