Jeep Compass

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

Haha, yeah...but every WRX owner I've ever known beats the shit out of their cars...so that doesn't surprise me too much.

They do quite well in Forester XTs.

Yea I wouldn't use the WRX as a sign of Subaru reliability when almost all of them have been modified or tuned in some way. That's a lot of extra stress on the drivetrain especially when launching them hard at every green light. 

 

Like your standard Imprezza would be a solid commuter car. 

[vetali]

3 hours ago, Mling said:

Avoid anything with CVT transmission. They just dont last. I've driven an older work vehicle where fixing the transmission cost more than the car was worth. It was horrible to drive.

 

However Toyota has brought out a CVT with a mechanical first gear which should extend the life of the transmission and give it better take off. I haven't driven one yet.

We have a customer with a CVT accord that just hit 200k miles.

[kaiju_wars]

On 12/31/2020 at 2:03 PM, handymanshandle said:

Like... a new Compass? Only person I could think of with a related car is @kaiju_wars but he doesn't have a Compass specifically. 

Although, as a whole, those FCA compact crossovers are decent. A bit expensive here in the US, but they seem to be decently reliable... barring some issues that Chrysler's implementation of the 9-speed automatic can have, at least if the Pacifica is to go off of.

I have a Jeep Renegade, specifically 2019 model year.  I bought it new off the lot.  I know that's typically not recommended, but I  mean, I paid like $20,444.  The used market around me at the time was super fucky, and this actually was the best deal I was able to get on a (new to me) vehicle with everything I wanted.  (that being the bluetooth, heated seats, heated steering wheel, four wheel or all wheel drive, and a warranty, and reliability and decent gas mileage).  My grandma has had her Renegade for years, and so has my coworker, and they've never had issues.  

[Sarra]

3 hours ago, dizmo said:

Haha, yeah...but every WRX owner I've ever known beats the shit out of their cars...so that doesn't surprise me too much.

They do quite well in Forester XTs.

I owned a WRX for the better part of 10 years. I beat the crap out of it, yes, but I also took care of it, and other than it being very tired with 190,000 miles on it, it ran just fine.

 

That said, mine didn't have a CVT. My family owns a Forester with a CVT, and it has been very reliable for the past 6 years now, without any problems what-so-ever. But, it's a non-XT, and doesn't get beaten on by a Teenager, so there is that as well.

[Bitter]

5 hours ago, vetali said:

We have a customer with a CVT accord that just hit 200k miles.

Hope they're changing the fluid regularly! Also take a whiff of the fluid next time. Used Honda CVT fluid has the most amazing and pleasant aroma.

[Izineth]

15 hours ago, Aereldor said:

No rentals right now, but I might know someone who owns one in the exact variant that I want it - last year Jeep got voted the most trusted car brand here, which blew up sales. 

 

The Compass actually starts at $22,000 and the cheapest petrol manual is the variant I'd get, but my family's keen on AT, the extra airbags, and a sunroof, which bump it up to $27,000

 

The only other car here which is sold pretty much worldwide is the Honda CR-V, which is great but also like $38,000, so not really an option. 

Uhm, so does that mean you guys are getting all the good jeeps and we just get the junk leftovers in America?  Cuz if Jeep is the most reliable brand in India I'm scared to see what else y'all got.

 

Anyhow I have a Journey with the Pentastar.  While the 6 speed that is in it is older than the dirt itself it works sometimes I guess. The Pentastar has been super good to me decent power and torque but super shit fuel economy and it sounds like it has no oil in it when you first start it up because the top end goes dry over night...  Oh and it has this sort of fake ass AWD that is only AWD when its too late.  The only FCA engine I'm scared of personally is the Eco-Diesel...  I want to love it but the horror stories I've seen have made me say NOOOOOOPE.  And FCA transmissions are junk...  The only thing worse than a FCA transmission is a Jatco CVT...

[Aereldor]

1 minute ago, Kawaii_Desu said:

Uhm, so does that mean you guys are getting all the good jeeps and we just get the junk leftovers in America?  Cuz if Jeep is the most reliable brand in India I'm scared to see what else y'all got.

Toyota is the most reliable brand, but they're clunky, old, and overpriced. 

 

The other brands available here are local. Maruti, Mahindra, Tata. Toyota, Honda and Ford's only SUVs are $42,000 or more. MG kind of sucks... And the only Hyundai that compares also sucks. There isn't much to get besides the Jeep Compass. 

[Bitter]

2 hours ago, Kawaii_Desu said:

Uhm, so does that mean you guys are getting all the good jeeps and we just get the junk leftovers in America?  Cuz if Jeep is the most reliable brand in India I'm scared to see what else y'all got.

 

Anyhow I have a Journey with the Pentastar.  While the 6 speed that is in it is older than the dirt itself it works sometimes I guess. The Pentastar has been super good to me decent power and torque but super shit fuel economy and it sounds like it has no oil in it when you first start it up because the top end goes dry over night...  Oh and it has this sort of fake ass AWD that is only AWD when its too late.  The only FCA engine I'm scared of personally is the Eco-Diesel...  I want to love it but the horror stories I've seen have made me say NOOOOOOPE.  And FCA transmissions are junk...  The only thing worse than a FCA transmission is a Jatco CVT...

Rod bolt stretch and dropped valve seats are common problems as they age. Both are catastrophic failures when they happen. Valve seat issues seem to be similar to the 5.7, 4.7, and 3.7 engine issues with localized hot spots causing the seats to warp and pop out of the head. Often in the Pentastar it'll start off as a misfire and low compression then go boom, the other engines just drop them out of the blue. The 4.7 and 3.7 also have had a long running problem with the lash adjusters seizing and breaking the rocker pedestals on the cylinder head causing catastrophic damages.

[dizmo]

11 hours ago, Sarra said:

I owned a WRX for the better part of 10 years. I beat the crap out of it, yes, but I also took care of it, and other than it being very tired with 190,000 miles on it, it ran just fine.

 

That said, mine didn't have a CVT. My family owns a Forester with a CVT, and it has been very reliable for the past 6 years now, without any problems what-so-ever. But, it's a non-XT, and doesn't get beaten on by a Teenager, so there is that as well.

Yes, but it being a cheap, high performance vehicle that requires constant maintenance, you're the exception and far from the rule

Most CVTs are trash.

15 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Yea I wouldn't use the WRX as a sign of Subaru reliability when almost all of them have been modified or tuned in some way. That's a lot of extra stress on the drivetrain especially when launching them hard at every green light. 

 

Like your standard Imprezza would be a solid commuter car. 

Exactly. I've heard people try and use the excuse of "it's supposed to be a rally car!"...but, if you don't maintain it like a rally car (how many people wrench on their cars every day), then it won't be reliable like a rally car.

[Aereldor]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

Yes, but it being a cheap, high performance vehicle that requires constant maintenance, you're the exception and far from the rule

Most CVTs are trash.

Exactly. I've heard people try and use the excuse of "it's supposed to be a rally car!"...but, if you don't maintain it like a rally car (how many people wrench on their cars every day), then it won't be reliable like a rally car.

So it turns out I'm a fucking idiot and didn't read correctly. There are no CVT Jeeps in India, the autos are DCT. I understand the CVT is the most glaring issue of the American compass. Out of curiosity, what else makes it a terrible car? 

[Aereldor]

6 hours ago, Kawaii_Desu said:

Uhm, so does that mean you guys are getting all the good jeeps and we just get the junk leftovers in America?

Funnily enough this might actually be true. We don't have the CVT Jeeps here, the autos are all DCT. Took me a while to figure it out. They're also built here now as of 2018, which might account for a variation in build quality?

[Bitter]

If you can find out which DCT it is and if it's a wet or dry clutch system that would help us help you figure out if it's any good or not. I know the dry clutch DCT that Ford used on it's small cars is a criminal failure, literally criminal.

[dizmo]

2 hours ago, Aereldor said:

So it turns out I'm a fucking idiot and didn't read correctly. There are no CVT Jeeps in India, the autos are DCT. I understand the CVT is the most glaring issue of the American compass. Out of curiosity, what else makes it a terrible car? 

DCTs can be amazing, or a total headache. You'd definitely want to look into the reliability of the one in the Jeep. Any kind of work that needs to be done to them can add up to big, big money. Especially if you have to replace the clutch packs. There's a lot of things that can make a terrible car. From a single bad part, to bad implementation of otherwise good parts, to horrible long term maintenance. It really needs some solid research. Take a B7 S4; it has a timing chain, which needs less service so they stuck it on the back of the engine. However because of poor supporting parts that do need service, when it comes time to do that routine maintenance you have to completely remove the engine. It's also needlessly complex, so what would normally be maybe a few thousand dollars ends up costing you $12,500. It's also why you generally buy used cars, or cars exclusively within warranty. How long do you plan on owning the vehicle?

[Aereldor]

9 hours ago, Bitter said:

If you can find out which DCT it is and if it's a wet or dry clutch system that would help us help you figure out if it's any good or not. I know the dry clutch DCT that Ford used on it's small cars is a criminal failure, literally criminal.

It uses the C725 DDCT. - DDCT iirc means 'Dual Dry Clutch Transmission', so dry. That transmission and its variants have been used for the Jeep Renegade, and the Alfa Romeo 4C, MiTo, and Giulietta.

 

Here's the info I could find -

 

Source: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/official-new-car-reviews/193293-jeep-compass-petrol-official-review.html

Spoiler

The 7-speed DDCT

The 7-speed Dual Dry Clutch Transmission (DDCT) is available in the Compass Petrol AT. This gearbox is internally known as FPT C725 DDCT - the 7 stands for the number of gears and the 25 denotes the torque limit of 250 Nm. Since it has a limit of 250 Nm, the same will be available only on the petrol variant. This gearbox is suitable for front wheel drive layouts only. It was developed in 2003 by the joint venture between Fiat and GAC, and is currently manufactured at Iveco Automotive Transmission Co. Ltd. in Hangzhou, China. The other models that use this transmission are the Fiat Ottimo, Fiat Viaggio and Jeep Renegade - available only in China.

The gearbox consists of four sub-assemblies = base gearbox, an electro-hydraulic actuation system, a transmission control unit and dual clutch unit + clutch actuators. Fiat Powertrain Systems designed them in a modular fashion which ensured that the future gearbox designs are cost efficient. The electro-hydraulic actuation systems though redesigned, feature a standardized mounting system to the base gearbox.

The C725 gets an electro-hydraulic clutch and gear selection mechanism. Magneti Marelli-sourced hydraulic actuation systems and control units are used in this gearbox. They are housed in a single module - the mechatronic control module (MCM). This ensures that the gearbox is an independent standalone unit. The MCM gets a dedicated, lifelong sealed hydraulic oil circuit that is used to actuate the clutches and gear shifting mechanisms.

This is how the MCM looks:


And its integration with the gearbox:


The gearbox gets two output shafts, one longer than the other. The longer one houses gears 1, 3, 5, 7 and reverse while the other has 2, 4 and 6. The parking pawl is located on the longer output shaft as well. The two clutches have odd & even gears associated with them. The odd clutch is actuated using a coaxial pull rod mechanism, while the even one uses a conventional hydraulic mechanism. The actuator for the pull rod is located at the rear of the transmission. The odd gear clutch is normally closed while the even gear clutch is normally open. Fiat also claims that using certain design parameters, the total oil required has been reduced to under 2 litres.

A cutout image of the clutch control systems:


The gearbox weighs about 74 kg (dry); that's around 10 kg more than the Volkswagen 7-speed DQ200.

Not much is known about this gearbox, but it should be noted that the other 9-Speed AT gearboxes from Jeep (particularly the ZF ones) are plagued with problems. We'll keep our fingers crossed on its long-term reliability. It is important to note that VW's DSG & Ford's DCT have both suffered reliability issues in India.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, dizmo said:

DCTs can be amazing, or a total headache. You'd definitely want to look into the reliability of the one in the Jeep. Any kind of work that needs to be done to them can add up to big, big money. Especially if you have to replace the clutch packs. There's a lot of things that can make a terrible car. From a single bad part, to bad implementation of otherwise good parts, to horrible long term maintenance. It really needs some solid research. Take a B7 S4; it has a timing chain, which needs less service so they stuck it on the back of the engine. However because of poor supporting parts that do need service, when it comes time to do that routine maintenance you have to completely remove the engine. It's also needlessly complex, so what would normally be maybe a few thousand dollars ends up costing you $12,500. It's also why you generally buy used cars, or cars exclusively within warranty. How long do you plan on owning the vehicle?

15 years optimistically. That's why we're getting the petrol variant - with Diesels, they become illegal to drive 10 years after they're bought

 

The compass appears to use a timing belt, not sure how it compares to a timing chain, but the service cost is between $500 to $1000 for that. What sucks is the Clutch Plate/Pressure Plate service cost. It's $150 for the manual, but $1000 for the automatic. That service is included in the warranty for 5 years, but the car is just 3 years old so super long term reliability is a gamble haha.

[Bitter]

Timing belt? Must even be a different engine than we get in north america too! Ours have a 2.4L "world" engine shared with Hyundai and Mitsubishi as far as I know. Unless they changed it and I'm in the dark.

[dizmo]

On 1/3/2021 at 1:02 AM, Aereldor said:

15 years optimistically. That's why we're getting the petrol variant - with Diesels, they become illegal to drive 10 years after they're bought

 

The compass appears to use a timing belt, not sure how it compares to a timing chain, but the service cost is between $500 to $1000 for that. What sucks is the Clutch Plate/Pressure Plate service cost. It's $150 for the manual, but $1000 for the automatic. That service is included in the warranty for 5 years, but the car is just 3 years old so super long term reliability is a gamble haha.

If you plan on owning it that long, I'd ask them how many units they estimate replacing the timing belt will take. All belts require maintenance, so it will be something you'll have to do eventually. That's not that bad of a fee if that's what it'd cost outside of warranty though. If you own a car for 15 years you should more-or-less expect to be paying more and more for maintenance as it ages. That's why owning a car only within warranty can be a smarter decision in the long run.

[Bitter]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Compass#India-spec_model

Oh. Oh no. Oh I see. You get the 1.4 Fiat turbo engine there not the 2.4 Chrysler 'Tigershark' engine. I haven't heard good things about the reliability of the Fiat Multi-air engines, I know they were very very failure prone at their launch in the US and they stopped using them here in Chrysler/Dodge vehicles partly because of that and partly because they were expensive engines compared to the 2.4L. I guess they've quietly phased it back in but that thing doesn't have an inspiring track record to build on and it's a bit....well it's not a very powerful engine for a heavier vehicle like that Jeep. The engine as of 2012 made between 170 and 185lbft of torque which is almost exactly what the transmission they put in your Indian Jeep model is capable of handling. In my opinion that does not bode well for the longevity of the transmission and it's clutches if you have to frequently push the engine hard and being that it's not go a lot of power at low RPM I suspect that it'll be frequently pushed hard.

 

You mentioned you may have a chance to go drive one, please do. Bring friends and family and load them up in it so it's a full car and drive it around, get out into traffic, go up a hill, merge onto the highway. If you're constantly finding yourself needing to push the car to downshift to a lower gear and wind the engine up to high RPM to get satisfactory performance it means a few things. First, the engine is too small for the car. 2nd, you're going to get awful gas mileage compared to what they claim it should get. 3rd, the transmission is probably not going to last a long time.

 

Here's what Car and Driver experienced in 2013-2014 with their long term Dodge Dart with Fiat 1.4 turbo engine.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15110653/2013-dodge-dart-rallye-14t-manual-long-term-test-wrap-up-review/

It's worth the read for their complaints about the engine and it's awful performance. I can't imagine it being better in a heavier Jeep Compass.

[Aereldor]

10 hours ago, dizmo said:

If you plan on owning it that long, I'd ask them how many units they estimate replacing the timing belt will take. All belts require maintenance, so it will be something you'll have to do eventually. That's not that bad of a fee if that's what it'd cost outside of warranty though. If you own a car for 15 years you should more-or-less expect to be paying more and more for maintenance as it ages. That's why owning a car only within warranty can be a smarter decision in the long run.

Yeah, I'll ask about it, gonna check in about test drives soon. Also decided to get the Diesel version for reasons below, planning to keep the car for 10 years instead of 15

 

9 hours ago, Bitter said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Compass#India-spec_model

Oh. Oh no. Oh I see. You get the 1.4 Fiat turbo engine there not the 2.4 Chrysler 'Tigershark' engine. I haven't heard good things about the reliability of the Fiat Multi-air engines, I know they were very very failure prone at their launch in the US and they stopped using them here in Chrysler/Dodge vehicles partly because of that and partly because they were expensive engines compared to the 2.4L. I guess they've quietly phased it back in but that thing doesn't have an inspiring track record to build on and it's a bit....well it's not a very powerful engine for a heavier vehicle like that Jeep. The engine as of 2012 made between 170 and 185lbft of torque which is almost exactly what the transmission they put in your Indian Jeep model is capable of handling. In my opinion that does not bode well for the longevity of the transmission and it's clutches if you have to frequently push the engine hard and being that it's not go a lot of power at low RPM I suspect that it'll be frequently pushed hard.

 

You mentioned you may have a chance to go drive one, please do. Bring friends and family and load them up in it so it's a full car and drive it around, get out into traffic, go up a hill, merge onto the highway. If you're constantly finding yourself needing to push the car to downshift to a lower gear and wind the engine up to high RPM to get satisfactory performance it means a few things. First, the engine is too small for the car. 2nd, you're going to get awful gas mileage compared to what they claim it should get. 3rd, the transmission is probably not going to last a long time.

 

Here's what Car and Driver experienced in 2013-2014 with their long term Dodge Dart with Fiat 1.4 turbo engine.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15110653/2013-dodge-dart-rallye-14t-manual-long-term-test-wrap-up-review/

It's worth the read for their complaints about the engine and it's awful performance. I can't imagine it being better in a heavier Jeep Compass.

I actually read that review! Which is why I decided to also check out the 2.0 Diesel Manual variant. Turns out that the Compass Diesel is already BS6 Phase 2 compliant, which is a generation ahead of current emission standards, which makes me feel a lot safer about buying one. It's only about $600 more to get the significantly more powerful diesel version, and I've driven manuals all my life so fuck it. They put the same engine in a few significantly larger/heavier Tata cars, so that's the way to go. It's only good for 10 years rather than 15, but honestly that seems fine. If it was 15 years I'd spend the extra to get one of the giant Toyota IMV cars.

 

Yep, that's the plan. If we test drive it out of the shop, 3 of us and the test drive guy. If they bring it home to test, then we could probably max out the seating capacity of 5 and even put some luggage in the boot.

 

It's a shame that the Honda CRV starts at $44,000 here and the RAV4 is sold as an import at almost $100,000... We really don't have that much to choose from

[Bitter]

Strangely, I'm actually pretty relieved that you decided not to go with the Fiat 1.4 turbo and DDCT trans.

[Yoinkerman]

On 12/31/2020 at 9:46 PM, Bitter said:

Pass. I've worked on them a lot and they're not fantastically made vehicles. They sound cheap, they feel cheap, they drive and ride cheap. It's just like driving a Dodge Caliber but worse.

There's a coolant housing on the side of the head that always leaks. They're prone to having low oil pressure over 150K miles. The CVT trans is troublesome, needs fluid changes every 30k like clockwork or it doesn't work right, it overheats itself just driving on the highway for no reason. Trans is good for about 100k miles, all the used trans are junk, and new ones are expensively out of proportion to what the vehicles cost. The flappy doodle inside the intake manifold binds and requires replacement of the manifold. Heater cores leak or clog or both.

 

I'd still take one over a Dodge Journey though.

It's worse than the caliber?  Chrysler that's the wrong way to outdo yourself jesus h christ

[Aereldor]

8 hours ago, Bitter said:

Strangely, I'm actually pretty relieved that you decided not to go with the Fiat 1.4 turbo and DDCT trans.

Haven't bought it yet... Apparently they're launching a facelift tomorrow, which might have a new 1.3L turbo. 

 

I might also just swallow my pride and get the cheapest IMV Toyota last-gen, one of these -

 

Spoiler

 

It's built on the same IMV platform as the Hilux... You know, the one Top Gear drowned, set on fire, and threw off a building and still drove.

[Bitter]

12 hours ago, Yoinkerman said:

It's worse than the caliber?  Chrysler that's the wrong way to outdo yourself jesus h christ

It's a Caliber, but bigger, with more loading capacity, but the same 2.4 engine and trans, and can be optioned to part time FWD based AWD. Same floor pan and suspension essentially.

 

At least for the USA.

[Bitter]

7 hours ago, Aereldor said:

Haven't bought it yet... Apparently they're launching a facelift tomorrow, which might have a new 1.3L turbo. 

 

I might also just swallow my pride and get the cheapest IMV Toyota last-gen, one of these -

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

It's built on the same IMV platform as the Hilux... You know, the one Top Gear drowned, set on fire, and threw off a building and still drove.

1.3 turbo gas engine? I can't fathom it being better than the 1.4...

[Aereldor]

1 hour ago, Bitter said:

1.3 turbo gas engine? I can't fathom it being better than the 1.4...

Not unheard of, the Nissan Kicks got an 'upgrade' from a 1.5 to a newer 1.3 and it pulls better, apparently. 

 

As of now I'd say the IMV Toyota Innova is pretty up there. It's the only affordable reliable SUV on the market, with a 2.7L gas engine - shares a platform with the Hilux, Tacoma etc, though it's limited to RWD. The resale value is also unbelievable because it's the country's #1 taxi car. The downside is it's a lot larger than I'd like, unwieldy, has poor fuel economy, and is fuck ugly. 

 

[Bitter]

6 hours ago, Aereldor said:

Not unheard of, the Nissan Kicks got an 'upgrade' from a 1.5 to a newer 1.3 and it pulls better, apparently. 

 

As of now I'd say the IMV Toyota Innova is pretty up there. It's the only affordable reliable SUV on the market, with a 2.7L gas engine - shares a platform with the Hilux, Tacoma etc, though it's limited to RWD. The resale value is also unbelievable because it's the country's #1 taxi car. The downside is it's a lot larger than I'd like, unwieldy, has poor fuel economy, and is fuck ugly. 

 

I mean 100% you're right but also if everyone uses it as a taxi it must be pretty reliable and have a lot of internal space. I bet parts are cheap and everyone knows how to fix it too! Having extra room inside will absolutely come in handy at some point, but the other points for not liking it are valid. It looks like the bastard child of a Prius and a Chevy Uplander with some first gen Mazda CX9 mixed in.