Anyone Ever Played with Luminol in a Loop?

[Nanook]

Or any other glowing fluid?

 

[Bombastinator]

I’ve see fluids used as light filters.  That’s what a tunable dye laser is (was?)

[Nanook]

4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I’ve see fluids used as light filters.  That’s what a tunable dye laser is (was?)

I wonder how to incorporate something like this in a loop for an unending source of illuminated fluid.

 

[Bombastinator]

2 minutes ago, Nanook said:

I wonder how to incorporate something like this in a loop for an unending source of illuminated fluid.

 

Umm... you know that pic they’re showing is of a nuclear reactor, right?

[Nanook]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

Umm... you know that pic they’re showing is of a nuclear reactor, right?

Yes but I don't think you would need a reactor to replicate the underlying principle. Just particles going faster that light in a liquid medium. Kinda like when a plane breaks the sound barrier and a sonic boom results. Particles going faster than light in a medium result in a release of light.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Nanook said:

Yes but I don't think you would need a reactor to replicate the underlying principle. Just particles going faster that light in a liquid medium. Kinda like when a plane breaks the sound barrier and a sonic boom results. Particles going faster than light in a medium result in a release of light.

So why hasn’t it been done?  Chernenkov was a dude you know.  He’s been dead for a long time.  Blue LEDs were a great white whale of engineering for a very long time. (They needed the B in RGB)  They’re still more expensive than the red ones.  Why didn’t they just use that? This isnt exactly a just discovered phenomena.  Maybe Google the guy, and what that blue light is also called: “Cherenkov radiation”

[For Science!]

5 hours ago, Nanook said:

Yes but I don't think you would need a reactor to replicate the underlying principle. Just particles going faster that light in a liquid medium. Kinda like when a plane breaks the sound barrier and a sonic boom results. Particles going faster than light in a medium result in a release of light.

Not entirely sure under what laws you operate under, but in this world exceeding the speed of light is not seen as a trivial matter.

 

https://phys.org/news/2006-03-probing-faster.html#:~:text=According to Einstein's theory of,exceed the speed of light.&text=By the time an object,beyond the infinite is impossible.

[Nanook]

19 hours ago, For Science! said:

Not entirely sure under what laws you operate under, but in this world exceeding the speed of light is not seen as a trivial matter.

 

https://phys.org/news/2006-03-probing-faster.html#:~:text=According to Einstein's theory of,exceed the speed of light.&text=By the time an object,beyond the infinite is impossible.

It's a little more nuanced than that. It is true that nothing can go faster than the speed of light...in a vacuum. However, light slows down a little when it is traveling through a medium like glass or a liquid. So a particle like a neutrino can go faster than the speed of light in the medium, and in doing so it creates a "sonic boom" that emits light.

[Bombastinator]

21 minutes ago, Nanook said:

It's a little more nuanced than that. It is true that nothing can go faster than the speed of light...in a vacuum. However, light slows down a little when it is traveling through a medium like glass or a liquid. So a particle like a neutrino can go faster than the speed of light in the medium, and in doing so it creates a "sonic boom" that emits light.

It’s in the video.  I think he watched it.  Basically nothing can stop or even effect neutrinos.  I’ve seen potential partial neutrino barriers being discussed as requiring thicknesses of lead measured in light years.  Neutrinos pass through the earth all the time. ( like the entire earth)   Light is energy. Energy can be neither created nor destroyed.  And the The ocean doesn’t glow, so what is making that blue light is not neutrinos.

[PineyCreek]

What about dimmable blue LEDs or LED strips or tubes you could recess in a trough or other structure?  You could then set them to pulse to give it a breathing effect....maybe even give it a beat detector to pulse to music.

 

Either that or attach warp nacelles to your case.

[For Science!]

8 hours ago, Nanook said:

It's a little more nuanced than that. It is true that nothing can go faster than the speed of light...in a vacuum. However, light slows down a little when it is traveling through a medium like glass or a liquid. So a particle like a neutrino can go faster than the speed of light in the medium, and in doing so it creates a "sonic boom" that emits light.

Okay, keep me updated how it goes.

[tikker]

On 10/29/2020 at 5:29 AM, Nanook said:

Yes but I don't think you would need a reactor to replicate the underlying principle. Just particles going faster that light in a liquid medium. Kinda like when a plane breaks the sound barrier and a sonic boom results. Particles going faster than light in a medium result in a release of light.

The only small problem is you need a big ass particle accelerator in or near your computer to provide you with those energetic particles.

  

8 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

And the The ocean doesn’t glow, so what is making that blue light is not neutrinos.

In the case of the reactor indeed unlikely that it's the neutrinos making the glow. We have built neutrino detectors based on Cherenkov radiation however, but as you say they don't detect the neutrinos directly. They look for a flash of Cherenkov light the moment a neutrino interacts with a molecule in the detector. The particles produced in that interaction can then emit Cherenkov radiation and from the pattern they can deduce if it originated from a neutrino.

[Bombastinator]

47 minutes ago, tikker said:

The only small problem is you need a big ass particle accelerator in or near your computer to provide you with those energetic particles.

  

In the case of the reactor indeed unlikely that it's the neutrinos making the glow. We have built neutrino detectors based on Cherenkov radiation however, but as you say they don't detect the neutrinos directly. They look for a flash of Cherenkov light the moment a neutrino interacts with a molecule in the detector. The particles produced in that interaction can then emit Cherenkov radiation and from the pattern they can deduce if it originated from a neutrino.

That’s a lot of light though and it’s still not the neutrinos emitting the energy.  I’ve been dancing around the phrase  “astoundingly dangerous to living beings” without saying it perhaps.

[tikker]

10 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

That’s a lot of light though and it’s still not the neutrinos emitting the energy.  I’ve been dancing around the phrase  “astoundingly dangerous to living beings” without saying it perhaps.

A particle accelerator next to your PC would be pretty dangerous yes

 

Neutrinos indeed hardly interact with anything, so these are relatively rare events. Cherenkov radiation isn't really all that dangerous from what I know as it's visible and (near) UV light.

[Bombastinator]

Just now, tikker said:

A particle accelerator next to your PC would be pretty dangerous yes

 

Neutrinos indeed hardly interact with anything, so these are relatively rare events. Cherenkov radiation isn't really all that dangerous from what I know as it's visible and (near) UV light.

The light isn’t dangerous.  What is causing it is though.  That’s why there’s many feet of water armor between what is causing it and the viewer.  We may be saying the same thing.  

[tikker]

9 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

The light isn’t dangerous.  What is causing it is though.  That’s why there’s many feet of water armor between what is causing it and the viewer.  We may be saying the same thing.  

I think we are. The particles are indeed dangerous.

[Bombastinator]

My memory from childhood was something like if you can see chernenkov radiation and it’s not at the bottom of a reactor pool you’re already dead.

[HM-2]

Chernenkov radiation in its most widely recognised sense is created by beta particles- electrons- released during fission. 

 

It has nothing to do with neutrinos as they're uncharged particles; the defining characteristic of Chernenkov radiation is the fact it is created by charged particles. The equivalent for uncharged particles such as neutrinos is Askaryan radiation.

[tikker]

18 minutes ago, HM-2 said:

Chernenkov radiation in its most widely recognised sense is created by beta particles- electrons- released during fission. 

 

It has nothing to do with neutrinos as they're uncharged particles; the defining characteristic of Chernenkov radiation is the fact it is created by charged particles. The equivalent for uncharged particles such as neutrinos is Askaryan radiation.

Exept they're in different wavelength regimes. They certainly use cherenkov radiation to "detect" neutrinos by reconstructing the event based on emission from the produced particles when the neutrino interacts.

 

I'll stop here as we're kind of derailing the thread at this point I feel

[HM-2]

17 hours ago, tikker said:

Exept they're in different wavelength regimes. They certainly use cherenkov radiation to "detect" neutrinos by reconstructing the event based on emission from the produced particles when the neutrino interacts.

 

I'll stop here as we're kind of derailing the thread at this point I feel

Yeah I should have been clearer- cherenkov detectors are used to infer the presence of neutrinos because of the creation of charged leptons through interaction (which are the actual source of cherenkov radiation). 

 

But in reference to the topic...why would you bother with Luminol? You only get a few seconds of glow on contact with an oxidant. You'd spend half your time dumping hydrogen peroxide into your loop to keep it lit!

[Nanook]

On 10/31/2020 at 6:41 AM, HM-2 said:

Yeah I should have been clearer- cherenkov detectors are used to infer the presence of neutrinos because of the creation of charged leptons through interaction (which are the actual source of cherenkov radiation). 

 

But in reference to the topic...why would you bother with Luminol? You only get a few seconds of glow on contact with an oxidant. You'd spend half your time dumping hydrogen peroxide into your loop to keep it lit!

I just thought the aesthetic of a glowing fluid running through a loop would be pretty cool. I know luminol runs our fast because it is the stuff in our glow sticks. However, running luminol in a loop just for one time photo-op might be pretty cool to see!

 

Cherenkov radiation would be a long term source for fluidic light, but we are a long way for that being possible. I was just having fun with far out there ideas. Unless someone wants to having a mini-reactor powering their PC lol?

[For Science!]

1 hour ago, Nanook said:

I just thought the aesthetic of a glowing fluid running through a loop would be pretty cool. I know luminol runs our fast because it is the stuff in our glow sticks. However, running luminol in a loop just for one time photo-op might be pretty cool to see!

 

Cherenkov radiation would be a long term source for fluidic light, but we are a long way for that being possible. I was just having fun with far out there ideas. Unless someone wants to having a mini-reactor powering their PC lol?

Just use leds and be done with it, A combination of rgb fittings and Optionally  satin tubing  and/or opaque/translucent coolant is an already existing, feasible, and long term viable solution.

 

 

 

[Grabhanem]

1 hour ago, Nanook said:

Unless someone wants to having a mini-reactor powering their PC lol?

Well, ya know, with recent CPU and GPU launches that might not be unreasonable

[For Science!]

Also, there are UV reactive coolants too

[Nanook]

5 minutes ago, For Science! said:

Also, there are UV reactive coolants too

Yes, RGB tubing is cool, but could it really compete with actual glowing fluid?

 

As for UV reactant coolants...I would like to know more.