Grounding yourself when building

[TheJedi]

Hey guys, this is just a follow up question to one I posted a few days ago.

 

So when grounding yourself to your psu. Should the plug socket that the PSU is connected to be switch on or off. I know the PSU should be off.

 

Thanks

[bellabichon]

As in the actual wall socket? Doesn't matter. All you're doing is using your home's ground connection to dissipate static charge. 

[Kruno]

I recently put in an X570 mobo in preparation for Ryzen 3 and one hint was to scratch the paint off the PSU grill and ground yourself on it (using a ESD band). AFAIK the PSU has to be connected to ground, meaning plugged in bit turned off (safety).

[TheJedi]

3 hours ago, bellabichon said:

As in the actual wall socket? Doesn't matter. All you're doing is using your home's ground connection to dissipate static charge. 

Is it true I need to scratch off the paint on the fan grill or is that not the case anymore?

 

I'm going buy an old tech quickie episode

[A1200]

I have never grounded myself. Been working with hardware since the 90s, never killed anything through static discharge.

[Kruno]

2 hours ago, CloudPC said:

Is it true I need to scratch off the paint on the fan grill or is that not the case anymore?

 

I'm going buy an old tech quickie episode

 

I did it "just in case", from what I have read is that any paint will keep you from grounding yourself.

 

I was working on my build for 5 hours, and not shocking something is possible but I don't want to risk anything.

[vsteel]

4 hours ago, A1200 said:

I have never grounded myself. Been working with hardware since the 90s, never killed anything through static discharge.

That is because you are in a humid environment and you have been working in the golden age of ESD protection. 

 

For example if humidity is below 30%, then things like paper and cardboard become static generators.  Depending on the humidity level, things that don't generate static charge can start to. 

 

The golden age of static protection is from the 90s until a few years ago.  There is a reason that the ESD experts are either very old or pretty young.  We had a lot of years in there where we didn't care.  Parts before the 90s didn't have the protection so they were very sensitive and now because of the higher speeds and lower voltages the built in ESD protection circuits are getting smaller.  To keep the data eyes acceptable the circuits had to change.  As we go forward the danger of ESD is increasing. 

 

Grounding yourself and your computer is always a good idea.  Sure you might not have a problem based on your particular situation but you might, and putting on a metal wrist strap that is grounded is cheap insurance.  (Don't use the cloth banded wrist straps, they are crap and have a high failure rate.)

[Ankerson]

Doesn't matter as much today as it used to back in the old days.

 

Today it's nothing to really worry about too much.

 

 

[TheJedi]

1 hour ago, Ankerson said:

Doesn't matter as much today as it used to back in the old days.

 

Today it's nothing to really worry about too much.

 

 

So should I scratch the paint off or not?

 

I'm very confused

[A1200]

@CloudPC No paint scratching - who does that?

[sub68]

45 minutes ago, CloudPC said:

So should I scratch the paint off or not?

 

I'm very confused

no you dont need to scratch off the paint

[TheJedi]

47 minutes ago, A1200 said:

@CloudPC No paint scratching - who does that?

Linus back in the days he worked at NCIX

[Ankerson]

4 minutes ago, CloudPC said:

Linus back in the days he worked at NCIX

 

Yeah, back then and earlier it mattered more.

[TheJedi]

4 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

 

Yeah, back then and earlier it mattered more.

Is @vsteel correct in saying that fabric Anti static bracelets are worse. Because that's what I brought.

[Ankerson]

1 minute ago, CloudPC said:

Is @vsteel correct in saying that fabric Anti static bracelets are worse. Because that's what I brought.

 

I don't know, I haven't used one in over 20 years now.

[vsteel]

6 hours ago, CloudPC said:

Is @vsteel correct in saying that fabric Anti static bracelets are worse. Because that's what I brought.

Yes, I am correct.  It might work but they have about a 20% failure rate out of the box and they don't last long.  It is part of what I do, ESD in the semiconductor field, I am friends with people who write the global standards.   

 

Since you already have a fabric band, I assume it is one of the ones that have a snap.   If it is take the snap off and lick your finger and then put your finger on the metal part to discharge yourself.   Then you can put the snap on, and if the fabric is a little damp that will help as well.   If it doesn't have a snap, just get the fabric damp, not dripping wet but damp and make sure it has good contact with your skin.      

 

You are just going to want to make the computer at a low charge level.  The parts you have, keep in a static bag until you are ready to use them.   Having highly charged parts touching a large ground plate is also bad.  ESD is not only the field that you might have on you which can damage parts, the quick discharge of parts can also cause damage.  That is why a lot of things go to ground in the mega-ohm range.  You need the charge to drain, not suddenly flow.   ESD can also cause weird issues, people think ESD will just make a part go poof.  While it can do that, it can also put a gremlin in the machine which can cause seemingly random fails which are infrequent enough they can be hard to track down.  It can also cause a shortened life of the parts because of internal damage, so it might take a few years off of your part.  Something dies after a year or two and you think you must have had a bum part, maybe you did or maybe you damaged it with ESD.

 

ESD does matter now.  Anyone that says it doesn't matter now is just using anecdotal evidence to make that statement.   It is your stuff though, you can do what you want.

[vsteel]

To answer the original question, you don't need to scratch the paint off.

[Ankerson]

19 minutes ago, vsteel said:

Yes, I am correct.  It might work but they have about a 20% failure rate out of the box and they don't last long.  It is part of what I do, ESD in the semiconductor field, I am friends with people who write the global standards.   

 

Since you already have a fabric band, I assume it is one of the ones that have a snap.   If it is take the snap off and lick your finger and then put your finger on the metal part to discharge yourself.   Then you can put the snap on, and if the fabric is a little damp that will help as well.   If it doesn't have a snap, just get the fabric damp, not dripping wet but damp and make sure it has good contact with your skin.      

 

You are just going to want to make the computer at a low charge level.  The parts you have, keep in a static bag until you are ready to use them.   Having highly charged parts touching a large ground plate is also bad.  ESD is not only the field that you might have on you which can damage parts, the quick discharge of parts can also cause damage.  That is why a lot of things go to ground in the mega-ohm range.  You need the charge to drain, not suddenly flow.   ESD can also cause weird issues, people think ESD will just make a part go poof.  While it can do that, it can also put a gremlin in the machine which can cause seemingly random fails which are infrequent enough they can be hard to track down.  It can also cause a shortened life of the parts because of internal damage, so it might take a few years off of your part.  Something dies after a year or two and you think you must have had a bum part, maybe you did or maybe you damaged it with ESD.

 

ESD does matter now.  Anyone that says it doesn't matter now is just using anecdotal evidence to make that statement.   It is your stuff though, you can do what you want.

 

Yeah, if you are working in clean room with very low humidity as they usually are and around electronics yeah it will make a difference.

 

But for more normal settings it doesn't matter as much as it used to back in the old days. 

 

Nothing to really lose any sleep over.

 

Yeah, 15 to 25 years ago, oh yeah it mattered a lot.

 

We were just careful making sure we discharged any static before touching the parts.

 

Still have the same habit today making sure before touching the parts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vsteel]

22 hours ago, Ankerson said:

 

Yeah, if you are working in clean room with very low humidity as they usually are and around electronics yeah it will make a difference.

Clean rooms are kept at around 50%-70% humidity, along with probe, assembly and test.

 

I have said my peace, people can do with the information what they will.