Investing into LGA 1200 or AM4? Purely gaming build.

[Slyceth]

Hello, I've finished doing some research and settled on a couple of options that fit my pure gaming performance build.

Since AMD is allegedly dropping support for the AM4 socket this year and Intel released Comet Lake LGA 1200 very recently, I think it's smart to invest into camp Intel, especially if I can upgrade to a less-than-14-nm Intel chip in 1-2 years (Important question: it IS possible for Intel to release a chip under 14nm within the LGA 1200 socket lifespan right? Or is LGA 1200 simply not compatible with smaller nm chips?. I'm especially worried because a Videocardz.com leak states that Intel is only keeping the LGA 1200 socket around for 1 generation, and will switch over to LGA 1700 already),

 

I'm going to be running the RTX 3080, I am aware that we can't know how much having/not having PCI Gen 4 is going to matter. (Perhaps future Intel socket 1200 CPU's might start supporting it anyway)

 

I'm stuck deciding between getting a I5-10600K or a 3600x/3700x. (I might be getting a Noctua NH-D15 since I heard it's one of the best CPU coolers, since I'm going to be overclocking, to get the best single core performance which I heard is best for gaming)

 

I'm could go for either of these monitors;

LG 27GN750-B 27.0" 1920x1080 240 Hz Monitor

LG 27GN850-B 27.0" 2560x1440 144 Hz Monitor

 

What I heard:

• AMD > Intel at 1440p (value)
• Intel > AMD at 1080p

I don't care if I have a 1440p 144hz or a 1080p 240hz monitor, I want whichever combination gives me the best relative gaming performance (from what I hear I should go either intel + 1080p OR amd + 1440p).

 

Which cpu+socket and monitor should I go for?

[Bombastinator]

“Investing” and computer are mutually exclusive in the same way that “investing” and condo or commuter car are mutually exclusive.

[Mateyyy]

For purely gaming, 10600K.

Unless you're an actual pro CS:GO or whatever other notable Esports games are there, I'd definitely suggest going with the 1440p 144Hz panel, instead of the 1080p 240Hz.

[Semper]

Generally speaking, Intel has a track record of  sticking to a socket for one or two generations

AMD has a track record of long term socket support.

With both of these situations, you have to understand that there is necessity for the socket to change. For the platform to evolve and progress, pins need to be added, removed, changed, or otherwise evolve in a way that isn't always going to be reasonable to do with the layout that they currently have. AM4 support is only expressly stated through 2020, so any life beyond that isn't guaranteed. What it will evolve into, or what intel will be doing with their next socket is (at least to my knowledge) purely speculation.

Intel still produces the best performance metrics outright (when comparing like for like), when it comes to exclusively gaming, anyway. The advantage that AMD has is a significant majority of that performance at a lower price point. We have high expectations for Zen 3, and we have hopes for Big Navi, but they are purely speculation at this point.

What monitor resolution you want should be something that is personal preference. If you want to push 240hz because you'll tangibly benefit from it, go 1080p. If you'd like a higher pixel density (which may look "better" subjectively), then go 1440p. I'm not a high end competitive gamer, 144hz 1440p is plenty fine with me.

[Slyceth]

Just now, Mateyyy said:

For purely gaming, 10600K.

Unless you're an actual pro CS:GO or whatever other notable Esports games are there, I'd definitely suggest going with the 1440p 144Hz panel, instead of the 1080p 240Hz.

What about my upgrade question? Is it possible for the LGA 1200 socket to support lower nm chips down the line? The reason I ask this is because of this reddit comment:

[Haro]

10 hours ago, Slyceth said:

Or is LGA 1200 simply not compatible with smaller nm chips?

they can release a chip with a smaller die size and on the same socket.

if that's going to happen or not is something we don't know.

but for purely gaming, a 10600k is a pretty good chip and is generally better than amd's 3600/3700x when it comes to gaming .

you could also wait for zen 3 and check what it has to offer and decide which platform you want to move to.

[Mateyyy]

4 minutes ago, Slyceth said:

What about my upgrade question? Is it possible for the LGA 1200 socket to support lower nm chips down the line? The reason I ask this is because of this reddit comment: 

-snip-

Intel's Rocket Lake-S chips are supposedly going to also be one LGA 1200 (I don't see why they wouldn't, Intel's always had two generations per socket/chipset), but they'll still be on 14nm according to rumours. 10nm on desktop will probably be coming at a later date.

 

Rocket Lake-S will also allegedly bring PCIe 4.0 support on Z490 (since most Z490 boards already have 4.0 switches on them), though it remains to be seen how they compare to their current Comet Lake-S chips.

[The RAM Guy]

Which games do you play?

The gaming experience depends on which game you play.

For example in League of legends 3x 32:9 Screens give you the best experience.

 

You should definitely go with Intel today, it has the better only gaming value.

[Jurrunio]

28 minutes ago, Slyceth said:

(Important question: it IS possible for Intel to release a chip under 14nm within the LGA 1200 socket lifespan right? Or is LGA 1200 simply not compatible with smaller nm chips?.

Possible but early leaks do not favour this. Next gen Rocket Lake is supposedly still 14nm and Intel will cut compatibility again. Also 11th gen is rumored to top at 8 cores rather than 10, so unless they are putting the new microarchitecture (i.e. ditching Skylake) into 11th gen (and I hpe they do if they are cutting core count), I dont see 11th gen being noticeably better than 10th.

[Slyceth]

18 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

Intel's Rocket Lake-S chips are supposedly going to also be one LGA 1200 (I don't see why they wouldn't, Intel's always had two generations per socket/chipset), but they'll still be on 14nm according to rumours. 10nm on desktop will probably be coming at a later date.

 

Rocket Lake-S will also allegedly bring PCIe 4.0 support on Z490 (since most Z490 boards already have 4.0 switches on them), though it remains to be seen how they compare to their current Comet Lake-S chips.

So I think I narrowed it down to the Gigabyte Z490 VISION G. There are only 6 Z490 boards without Wi-Fi on pcpartpicker, and I heard that the 2 cheapest MSI boards do not have PCIe 4.0, so I just wanted to double check with you whether the Gigabyte Z490 VISION G does indeed have PCIe 4.0 support as the third cheapest, but hopefully plenty good enough, option.

[Mateyyy]

3 minutes ago, Slyceth said:

So I think I narrowed it down to the Gigabyte Z490 VISION G. There are only 6 Z490 boards without Wi-Fi on pcpartpicker, and I heard that the 2 cheapest MSI boards do not have PCIe 4.0, so I just wanted to double check with you whether the Gigabyte Z490 VISION G does indeed have PCIe 4.0 support as the third cheapest, but hopefully plenty good enough, option.

The Vision G is good, though unless you need the extra rear USB ports or whatever, I'd take a Gaming Edge WIFI over it.

 

I don't think there's a clear official statement from any manufacturer regarding PCIe 4.0 support on their boards, but going by table, it looks like MSI's boards do have 4.0 switches on them, as well as Gigabyte's:

Spoiler

Sauce: https://wccftech.com/z490-motherboards-pcie-gen-4-support-detailed-asus-msi-asrock-gigabyte/

I don't know how accurate this is though, so don't quote me on it.

[Slyceth]

1 hour ago, Mateyyy said:

The Vision G is good, though unless you need the extra rear USB ports or whatever, I'd take a Gaming Edge WIFI over it.

 

I don't think there's a clear official statement from any manufacturer regarding PCIe 4.0 support on their boards, but going by table, it looks like MSI's boards do have 4.0 switches on them, as well as Gigabyte's:

  Reveal hidden contents

Sauce: https://wccftech.com/z490-motherboards-pcie-gen-4-support-detailed-asus-msi-asrock-gigabyte/

I don't know how accurate this is though, so don't quote me on it.

The Tomahawk seems to be cheaper in my country than that Gaming Edge WIFI, are you sure I should take that one anyway? (i use a LAN cable for internet)

 

[Mateyyy]

Just now, Slyceth said:

The Tomahawk seems to be cheaper in my country than that Gaming Edge WIFI, are you sure I should take that one anyway? (i use a LAN cable for internet)

-snip-

The Gaming Edge also has a better VRM, it's not just the onboard WIFI.

Along with the stronger VRM, the heatsinks are also better, if the B550 Tomahawk and B550 Gaming Edge are anything to go by (the heatsinks look very similar between those and the Z490 boards).

[Slyceth]

3 hours ago, Mateyyy said:

The Gaming Edge also has a better VRM, it's not just the onboard WIFI.

Along with the stronger VRM, the heatsinks are also better, if the B550 Tomahawk and B550 Gaming Edge are anything to go by (the heatsinks look very similar between those and the Z490 boards).

Thank you very much for your help! I read through some of your other posts comparing the Gaming Edge and the Aorus Elite; Which I discovered is the exact same as the Vision G except without wifi.

You also mentioned the Aorus Elite (ac) has better Audio onboard compared to the Gaming Edge and it's pretty much the same otherwise, so I think that's enough to justify spending 7 more and settle for the Aorus Elite (ac).

[Mateyyy]

7 hours ago, Slyceth said:

Thank you very much for your help! I read through some of your other posts comparing the Gaming Edge and the Aorus Elite; Which I discovered is the exact same as the Vision G except without wifi.

Pretty much, the Vision G also has a Type-C in the rear I think, but that's mostly it, other than the look.

7 hours ago, Slyceth said:

You also mentioned the Aorus Elite (ac) has better Audio onboard compared to the Gaming Edge and it's pretty much the same otherwise, so I think that's enough to justify spending 7 more and settle for the Aorus Elite (ac).

Are you sure? The AC and non-AC are identical (except for WIFI of course), and both the Aorus Elite and Gaming Edge use the ALC1200 codec.

Either way, the Elite is also solid.

Most of the differences between the Vision G, Aorus Elite, Gaming Edge and even Tomahawk kind of boil down to things like WIFI, rear IO, LAN, look of the board - VRM-wise, they're all good.

[Slyceth]

On 9/12/2020 at 7:24 AM, Mateyyy said:

Pretty much, the Vision G also has a Type-C in the rear I think, but that's mostly it, other than the look.

Are you sure? The AC and non-AC are identical (except for WIFI of course), and both the Aorus Elite and Gaming Edge use the ALC1200 codec.

Either way, the Elite is also solid.

Most of the differences between the Vision G, Aorus Elite, Gaming Edge and even Tomahawk kind of boil down to things like WIFI, rear IO, LAN, look of the board - VRM-wise, they're all good.

I'm sorry to hit you up again, but I had some concerns. I found a video by Hardware Unboxed where he did some VRM benchmarks for most Z490 boards, and while he calls the Gaming Edge a "more premium model" than the Tomahawk, it lags behind in the benchmarks, and he doesn't mention the motherboard at all in his video where he talks about the best 200$ boards, and instead recommends the Tomahawk above everything. Could you maybe link your sources about the Gaming Edge and Tomahawk?

 

He mentions that the Tomahawk and Gaming Edge both have the same VRM configuration, only the components used are different. And in every test the Tomahawk has beaten the Gaming Edge. I know I said I decided on the Aorus Elite but that's only because you said this about the Tomahawk:

On 9/11/2020 at 7:59 PM, Mateyyy said:

The Gaming Edge also has a better VRM, it's not just the onboard WIFI.

Along with the stronger VRM, the heatsinks are also better, if the B550 Tomahawk and B550 Gaming Edge are anything to go by (the heatsinks look very similar between those and the Z490 boards).

 

[Mateyyy]

1 hour ago, Slyceth said:

I'm sorry to hit you up again, but I had some concerns. I found a video by Hardware Unboxed where he did some VRM benchmarks for most Z490 boards, and while he calls the Gaming Edge a "more premium model" than the Tomahawk, it lags behind in the benchmarks, and he doesn't mention the motherboard at all in his video where he talks about the best 200$ boards, and instead recommends the Tomahawk above everything. Could you maybe link your sources about the Gaming Edge and Tomahawk?

 

He mentions that the Tomahawk and Gaming Edge both have the same VRM configuration, only the components used are different. And in every test the Tomahawk has beaten the Gaming Edge. I know I said I decided on the Aorus Elite but that's only because you said this about the Tomahawk:

-snip-

Hm.. interesting find. The Tomahawk used 12 55A DrMOS power stages, whereas the Gaming Edge is on 60A SPS. That's mentioned on the boards' respective pages on MSI's website - I'd screenshot it but it doesn't seem to be loading properly for some reason.

 

I assumed the heatsinks were the same used on B550, which look to be better on the Gaming Edge, going by HUB's testing (since on B550, the VRM is identical between the Tomahawk and Gaming Edge):

Spoiler

Either they messed with the heatsinks or they messed up something with the BIOS.

It can't be the efficiency curve of the different power stages used, since they're so close in terms of rated current handling capability and the Tomahawk is ahead in all tests. At least I don't think it is.

 

My bad on that.

[Bombastinator]

Any time I see the word “investing in”combined with computer equipment I get worried.  Computers are not investments.  They drop in value and they do it quickly.

[Slyceth]

10 hours ago, Mateyyy said:

Hm.. interesting find. The Tomahawk used 12 55A DrMOS power stages, whereas the Gaming Edge is on 60A SPS. That's mentioned on the boards' respective pages on MSI's website - I'd screenshot it but it doesn't seem to be loading properly for some reason.

 

I assumed the heatsinks were the same used on B550, which look to be better on the Gaming Edge, going by HUB's testing (since on B550, the VRM is identical between the Tomahawk and Gaming Edge):

  Reveal hidden contents

Either they messed with the heatsinks or they messed up something with the BIOS.

It can't be the efficiency curve of the different power stages used, since they're so close in terms of rated current handling capability and the Tomahawk is ahead in all tests. At least I don't think it is.

 

My bad on that.

So in conclusion, I should be getting the Tomahawk right?

[Mateyyy]

9 minutes ago, Slyceth said:

So in conclusion, I should be getting the Tomahawk right?

Well it looks to be the least expensive out of the bunch for you locally, and if you don't need WIFI, I'd say it's a good choice.

[Slyceth]

7 hours ago, Mateyyy said:

Well it looks to be the least expensive out of the bunch for you locally, and if you don't need WIFI, I'd say it's a good choice.

Alright then this is it, shall I go ahead with it?

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	Intel Core i5-10600K 4.1 GHz 6-Core Processor	$299.99 @ B&H
CPU Cooler	Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler	$89.95 @ Amazon
Motherboard	MSI MAG Z490 TOMAHAWK ATX LGA1200 Motherboard	$189.99 @ Newegg
Memory	G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory	$138.99 @ Newegg
Storage	Samsung 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive	$168.72 @ Amazon
Video Card	Asus GeForce RTX 3080 10 GB STRIX GAMING Video Card
Case	Lian Li Lancool II Mesh ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply	Corsair RM (2019) 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply	$203.98 @ Amazon
Monitor	LG 27GN850-B 27.0" 2560x1440 144 Hz Monitor	$449.99 @ Best Buy
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	$1541.61
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-09-14 12:40 EDT-0400

 

[Mateyyy]

3 minutes ago, Slyceth said:

Alright then this is it, shall I go ahead with it?

-snip-

Looks good, though that PSU is terribly overpriced. Either of these would be cheaper and better:

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/fdXYcf/fractal-design-ion-760-w-80-platinum-certified-fully-modular-at-power-supply-fd-psu-ionp-760p-bk

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/79tQzy/corsair-rmx-2018-750w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-cp-9020179-na

 

Noctua has a chromax.black variant of the NH-D15. If you don't mind the stock colour scheme though, there's also the NH-U12A which is quite a bit less bulky, while still offering most of the cooling potential of the larger D15.

 

Also, you could save some money on the SSD by skipping the Samsung tax, and going with either of these:

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/VXyqqs/silicon-power-a80-1-tb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-su001tbp34a80m28ab

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/PyhKHx/hp-ex950-1-tb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-5ms23aaabc

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/BVbCmG/corsair-mp510-960-gb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-cssd-f960gbmp510b

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/zR3H99/adata-sx8200-1-tb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-asx8200pnp-1tt-c

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/QQrmP6/western-digital-sn750-1-tb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-wds100t3x0c

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/N7zkcf/sabrent-1-tb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-sb-rocket-1tb

[Bombastinator]

I would add that Noctua dh15 is a fairly standard “big air” cooler.  There are a bunch of other coolers in that class.  I understand that if you happen to be in the EU for example there is a gelid cooler in that class for around $55.  In the US the macho le grande is another cooler of similar power that can also be had for less money.