Nvidia shares details about Ampere Founders Edition cooling & power design

[porina]

10 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

whats the point of the 12 pin connector if people are just going to adapt an 8 pin to it?

Any change will require a transition. It's not like every PSU ever made will magic up the new connector, but looking forward maybe we will see more adoption of that power connector.

[Parideboy]

1 minute ago, Escanor said:

Have they shown the adapter yet ?

Just cables from the looks of it. This is the Seasonic one

 

Spoiler

 

[spartaman64]

1 hour ago, porina said:

Any change will require a transition. It's not like every PSU ever made will magic up the new connector, but looking forward maybe we will see more adoption of that power connector.

sure but unless they get amd and intel on board the transition will never happen and people will just have to use the adapter forever

[CarlBar]

13 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

whats the point of the 12 pin connector if people are just going to adapt an 8 pin to it?

 

Bear in mind how the adaptors work varies.The NVIDIA one is supposedly going to route x 8 pins into the single 12 pin. The seasonic cable we've seen takes 2x 8 pin PSU outputs, (Each of which normally feeds 2x8pin outputs), and combines them into a single 12 pin.

 

2 hours ago, Parideboy said:

False. Doesn't mean you can't pull more energy from the cable. It depends on single manufacturers how to implement it.

6 and 8 pin are literally the same connector, with 2 extra ground points. 2 grounds don't double the rating of a cable.

 

When doing a crazy oc (+100mv +800mhz) with my R9 390 I peaked at over 400w (card alone, not the full system), magic?

Usually the 6 pin and the pcie connection respect the rating, the rest of the power is provided by the 8pin, regardless of it's rating.

My card drawn 325w from cables rated 75w and 150w. So yeah, magic

 

And you missed the pcie connection, so even if the ratings were respected, the card will still have enough headroom.

 

That being said, with a 8+6 (150+75+75) you're still looking at 300w, with 8+8 (150+150+75) the problem is solved

 

That's probably the reason why they made this, AIB would have at least 3 8pins to carry enough power for some hardcore OC.

 

Since a 12pin should provide at least 300w, AIB could get away with a 12+8 (300+150+75) which is hillarius at this point. So they probably went "screw it" and put 2 of them

Some say this connector takes 8+8 pins, some others say 3...

 

The 12 pin is rated for 3x8 Pin we know that from the filings NVIDIA made on it, but rumour is initial NVIDIA adaptors will only combine a pair of 8 pins.

 

To the person who mentioned the 6 Pin and 8 Pin don't have to operate in spec. Thats true but a weak PSU could be fried by it, and in some jurisdictions around the world, if that damages someones system, or haven forbid starts a fire that burns down the house, (and potentially kills someone), the card manufacturer would be on the hook for that. No AIB partner is going to deliberately screw with that.

[JediFragger]

2 minutes ago, Jack_of_all_Trades said:

 

Doesnt that spit out the hot air directly at a hypothetical tower cooler in a standard aircooled configuration ?

Looks like, but nVidia won't care a jot as long as their GPU is being cooled.

[porina]

20 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

sure but unless they get amd and nvidia on board the transition will never happen and people will just have to use the adapter forever

I'm pretty sure nvidia doesn't need to get nvidia onboard. Did you mean Intel?

 

Besides, it isn't AMD they have to focus on, but the PSU manufacturers. As an open question, do we know if the connector is open? Doesn't seem to be something worth protecting, and allowing anyone to use it would aid adoption.

[spartaman64]

3 minutes ago, porina said:

I'm pretty sure nvidia doesn't need to get nvidia onboard. Did you mean Intel?

 

Besides, it isn't AMD they have to focus on, but the PSU manufacturers. As an open question, do we know if the connector is open? Doesn't seem to be something worth protecting, and allowing anyone to use it would aid adoption.

yep i meant intel LUL and i doubt PSU manufacturers would want to include 8 pin and 12 pin connectors in their psu so as long as nvidia offers adapters and amd only has 8 pin then they will only have 8 pin

[porina]

25 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

yep i meant intel LUL and i doubt PSU manufacturers would want to include 8 pin and 12 pin connectors in their psu so as long as nvidia offers adapters and amd only has 8 pin then they will only have 8 pin

My gut feeling is that this connector only makes sense on higher end GPUs, that need more power than a single 8-pin PCIe power connector can deliver. The low to mid mainstream market will largely be unaffected by it and continue with a single up to 8-pin PCIe. Also the chances are if you're going for a higher end GPU, you're going to match it with a more beefy PSU too, and they can better accommodate including another modular connector.

[Bombastinator]

Just now, spartaman64 said:

sure but unless they get amd and nvidia on board the transition will never happen and people will just have to use the adapter forever

Yep.  Apparently Nvidia is on board.  It could turn into btx I suppose. There’s enough potential manufacturing savings to make a big difference as long as cards continue to need more than one 8 pin.  Might turn into a thing.  Probably depends on how particular machines are organized and what Thea amortized savings would be for converting them.

[spartaman64]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Yep.  Apparently Nvidia is on board.  It could turn into btx I suppose. There’s enough potential manufacturing savings to make a big difference as long as cards continue to need more than one 8 pin.  Might turn into a thing.  Probably depends on how particular machines are organized and what Thea amortized savings would be for converting them.

i meant intel since they are apparently going to make gpus 

[Bombastinator]

2 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

i meant intel since they are apparently going to make gpus 

Ah.  Iirc one of the beauties of the intel GPUs is (was? The department may have been axed) that they use ridiculously low amounts of power so they may not need any connectors at all or could do it with 1 x 4 pin perhaps.

[spartaman64]

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Ah.  Iirc one of the beauties of the intel GPUs is (was? The department may have been axed) that they use ridiculously low amounts of power so they may not need any connectors at all or could do it with 1 x 4 pin perhaps.

https://wccftech.com/intel-42-tfops-xe-gpu-benchmark/ they are apparently still going to make data center gpus at least and they are not low power

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

https://wccftech.com/intel-42-tfops-xe-gpu-benchmark/ they are apparently still going to make data center gpus at least and they are not low power

They still might be. A tile is an Xe.  An Xe is the iGPU out of one of Intel's CPUs. They take up about half the die of a 65w chip. So 33w a tile perhaps? 4x33=136w.  For the enterprise version. The 2 tile version would be 66w which is less than the 75w point at which you have to start adding power cables.  We could say double that at which point a single tile would be slot power only and a 2 tile would need a 4 pin.

[Derangel]

3 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

whats the point of the 12 pin connector if people are just going to adapt an 8 pin to it?

Saves space on the PCB that can be used for cooling and/or other components.

[Bombastinator]

3 hours ago, porina said:

My gut feeling is that this connector only makes sense on higher end GPUs, that need more power than a single 8-pin PCIe power connector can deliver. The low to mid mainstream market will largely be unaffected by it and continue with a single up to 8-pin PCIe. Also the chances are if you're going for a higher end GPU, you're going to match it with a more beefy PSU too, and they can better accommodate including another modular connector.

I think you’re right, but I also don’t think it’s a consumer oriented choice.  I think it’s a PSU and gpu manufacturing oriented choice.  A single connector board is cheaper to manufacture. Parts come on spools which are used by pick-and-place machines. Which require expensive human labor to change out. Unless the 12 pin costs 50% more Than the 8 pin part and conversion is expensive or difficult there will be manufacturer cost savings.   BTX was also cheaper to make and it went nowhere, so we’ll see.  It might be an Edsel.

[Andreas Lilja]

850W PSU won't cut it?

[Bombastinator]

56 minutes ago, Andreas Lilja said:

850W PSU won't cut it?

It sounds like it depends on what leads it has

[DragonTamer1]

Someone please help me because my electrician training is telling me that Nvidia is working with voodoo magic.

 

How is a smaller connector, with smaller connectors, able to carry more power than two larger connectors with larger conductors. Ohms law would forbid this, unless the 8 pins we have now are actually capable of a lot more power than they are rated for.

[Bombastinator]

28 minutes ago, DragonTamer1 said:

Someone please help me because my electrician training is telling me that Nvidia is working with voodoo magic.

 

How is a smaller connector, with smaller connectors, able to carry more power than two larger connectors with larger conductors. Ohms law would forbid this, unless the 8 pins we have now are actually capable of a lot more power than they are rated for.

Who says they’re made out of the same things?  I call upon your electrician training to look at an aluminum 10 gauge conductor and a copper 10 gauge conductor and determine which can carry more current and why.  An almost identical point could be made with a knob and tube run and a piece of Romex.  This is why I worry that cost effectiveness is a potential issue and that the new ports while cheaper in many ways may not be cheaper enough.

[Soppro]

I'm curious how the 12-pin will work with AIB cards? There's no way Nvidia developed a special connector just for their own FE cards, there has to be something else, maybe the connector will be used for all the higher-end cards (including AIBs) that draw more power. Also, is this connector is going to be standardised at all, or is it going to remain a proprietary Nvidia thing? I really hope it's not proprietary ..

[Kisai]

5 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

whats the point of the 12 pin connector if people are just going to adapt an 8 pin to it?

Less board space. The important point about adapters is that all PSU's can support this with two PCIe 6-pin or 8-pin's put together, as the existing wiring supports that. Three 6/8 pin connectors could also be used, but it's not the number of connectors that matters, as the wires can pull more than they do now (nearly three times as much) However the low-wattage PSU's might only have enough capacity to support doubling of the power over the same conductors.

[GoodBytes]

23 minutes ago, Soppro said:

I'm curious how the 12-pin will work with AIB cards? There's no way Nvidia developed a special connector just for their own FE cards, there has to be something else, maybe the connector will be used for all the higher-end cards (including AIBs) that draw more power. Also, is this connector is going to be standardised at all, or is it going to remain a proprietary Nvidia thing? I really hope it's not proprietary ..

You can bet that AIB will use the traditional connectors (whatever it needs.. 2x 8-pins or 1x 6-pin + 8-pins). Nvidia is using the new connector due to lack of space on its V ending shade PCB for the rear fan... but AIBs will just use the traditional rectangle shape PCB, so lots of room is available. They'll compensate the lack of cooling with more fins and heat pipes, or 3 fans of better quality than what they put traditionally.

 

Considering that today, deshrouding GPUs to remove their fans and put 2 Noctua fans which don't even run anywhere at full speed, under the GPU really heatsink (basically replacing the included fans with Noctua ones), people noticed a notable decrease in temps (and noise thanks quieter fans). It shows that the fans being used today have room for lots of improvements.

[DragonTamer1]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

I call upon your electrician training to look at an aluminum 10 gauge conductor and a copper 10 gauge conductor and determine which can carry more current and why.

Is that what the difference between the two connectors is?

[GoodBytes]

This cooler design of the 3090 just reminded me of the GeForce FX 5800 Ultra:

(And yes, it was an official video from Nvidia, published on Nvidia website back in 2002, and yes the GPU heatsink was no joke for back in the days)

I guess now we know what to expect from our gaming sessions with this new 3090 (see 2:00 mark)

[CarlBar]

2 hours ago, DragonTamer1 said:

Someone please help me because my electrician training is telling me that Nvidia is working with voodoo magic.

 

How is a smaller connector, with smaller connectors, able to carry more power than two larger connectors with larger conductors. Ohms law would forbid this, unless the 8 pins we have now are actually capable of a lot more power than they are rated for.

 

From what i understand it's the wiring gauge on the existing 8 pins, (and the hardware specs on the PSU internals), thats the limiting factor and the 12 pin uses thicker wiring. Same thing with the 6 pin to 8 pin difference, the 8 pin doesn't actually have anymore live pins, but it ca carry much more power than the 6 pin.