Is Pcie 3.0 x16 too slow for the next High end GPU's?

[soxsure]

Like, will the rtx3090 be bottlenecked noticabely without pcie 4.0 x16? Any thought's?

[Cyracus]

no, rtx 2000 series barely to the point of pcie 2x16 being a limiting factor

[Mateyyy]

Probably not, but we don't know.

[igormp]

 

Even the 2080ti barely saturates a PCIe 3.0 x8 link (which is equivalent to PCIe 2.0 16x).

 

The only benefit of PCIe 4.0 will be when you're dealing with many GPUs in x8/x4 links, which is a moot scenario for gaming.

[Haro]

we don't nor can we know, but it's highly unlikely, we'll have to wait and check.

[Gohardgrandpa]

It’s not too slow. I’m not even worried about it 

[Nathanpete]

Here is what Moore's Law is Dead has to say about it. I would say he is very credible, and is most well known for having insiders in multiple tech companies doing very in depth leaks. TL:DR expect the tippy top of Ampere to actually be bottlenecked by PCIe 3.0, but only on extremely GPU intensive workloads. 

Also this is less than 24 hours old, so this isn't outdated. 

[Mister Woof]

26 minutes ago, igormp said:

 

Even the 2080ti barely saturates a PCIe 3.0 x8 link (which is equivalent to PCIe 2.0 16x).

 

The only benefit of PCIe 4.0 will be when you're dealing with many GPUs in x8/x4 links, which is a moot scenario for gaming.

I watched this video as well. Not really sure where the extra performance is coming from on the PCIE4 on the 5700 XT; I think that it might just be driver things.

[igormp]

2 hours ago, Mister Woof said:

I watched this video as well. Not really sure where the extra performance is coming from on the PCIE4 on the 5700 XT; I think that it might just be driver things.

I'd say that the difference is within margin of error. PCIe 4.0 also has some new features, but I doubt those would be relevant for game performance.

[BTGbullseye]

2 hours ago, Mister Woof said:

I watched this video as well. Not really sure where the extra performance is coming from on the PCIE4 on the 5700 XT; I think that it might just be driver things.

It's coming from faster information transfer between the CPU, RAM, and GPU using the PCIe 4.0 link.

[Mister Woof]

2 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

It's coming from faster information transfer between the CPU, RAM, and GPU using the PCIe 4.0 link.

it's too bad Intel has omitted PCIE4 from 10th generation at this point. Another reason to make the AMD switch, I suppose.

[BTGbullseye]

Just now, Mister Woof said:

it's too bad Intel has omitted PCIE4 from 10th generation at this point. Another reason to make the AMD switch, I suppose.

Yup. Ryzen 4000 is going to be here long before Intel even has 4.0 support, so if the next gen GPUs have significant performance improvements from 4.0, Intel won't even have an edge in gaming anymore.

 

Hopefully both AMD and Intel will move to the new 12v-only PSU system soon though.

[xg32]

4 hours ago, soxsure said:

Like, will the rtx3090 be bottlenecked noticabely without pcie 4.0 x16? Any thought's?

personally i think it's highly likely that there will be a bottleneck of around 5-10%, it's also very unlikely to be 0% assuming 3080 and 3090 has a 20%, 600dollar gap, that's 200+dollars worth of performance, with the possibility of being more. If i was doing a new build now it would not be without pcie 4.0 support, rip intel.

 

That said, wait for ampere reviews and zen 3.

[igormp]

15 minutes ago, xg32 said:

personally i think it's highly likely that there will be a bottleneck of around 5-10%, it's also very unlikely to be 0% assuming 3080 and 3090 has a 20%, 600dollar gap, that's 200+dollars worth of performance, with the possibility of being more. If i was doing a new build now it would not be without pcie 4.0 support, rip intel.

 

That said, wait for ampere reviews and zen 3.

Even a 2080ti is far from saturating a 3.0 16x link, it barely does so with a 8x one. 3090 would need to be more than twice as powerful as the 2080ti for something like that to happen.

[Mister Woof]

16 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

Yup. Ryzen 4000 is going to be here long before Intel even has 4.0 support, so if the next gen GPUs have significant performance improvements from 4.0, Intel won't even have an edge in gaming anymore.

 

Hopefully both AMD and Intel will move to the new 12v-only PSU system soon though.

Been thinking about this - since Nvidia 3000 series won't support PCIE4, will it really even matter unless you're using AMD GPUs?

 

We've seen bottlenecking on certain AMD cards (5500XT) that are limited on the PCIE x8 motherboards, and meanwhile an RTX 2080 ti barely takes a hit from dropping down to PCIE2.

 

Obviously, the PCIE4 configuration with the 5700xt, while seemingly offering slight gains over a 5700xt on PCIE3, still does not outperform a 2080 ti on PCIE3 (and presumably 3000 series on PCIE3), so absolute performance doesn't seem to be bottlenecked by the PCIE3 interface.

 

I think it's more to do with the way AMD designs their GPUs than the absolute performance need overall for the bandwidth.

 

I'm an Intel user who likes AMD GPUs, and it makes me wonder how lacking PCIE4 for the big navi GPUs would affect performance. If more powerful Nvidia GPUs can give me more performance without the penalty of lacking PCIE4, that would potentially influence me towards their camp vs. big navi in the future.

[soxsure]

Thanks for all the input. Am stuck to pcie 3.0 so far and I don't really like upgrading the cpu that often, it's just not worth it for my needs. However if the next top tier gpu will actually be bottlenecked uh eh ah shit

[BTGbullseye]

3 hours ago, Mister Woof said:

Been thinking about this - since Nvidia 3000 series won't support PCIE4, will it really even matter unless you're using AMD GPUs?

All the most reliable leakers say it will support 4.0... Just sayin'. Well find out next week.

3 hours ago, Mister Woof said:

I'm an Intel user who likes AMD GPUs, and it makes me wonder how lacking PCIE4 for the big navi GPUs would affect performance. If more powerful Nvidia GPUs can give me more performance without the penalty of lacking PCIE4, that would potentially influence me towards their camp vs. big navi in the future.

It's likely that the 3090 will have the highest performance of all of the bunch, but it's also likely that the flagship AMD will be close, (closer than the 3080 by a large margin) and less expensive.

[Mister Woof]

4 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

All the most reliable leakers say it will support 4.0... Just sayin'. Well find out next week.

It's likely that the 3090 will have the highest performance of all of the bunch, but it's also likely that the flagship AMD will be close, (closer than the 3080 by a large margin) and less expensive.

I must have read an outdated one. The last one I saw said it wasn't coming to 3000 series, but their professional card.

[Mister Woof]

5 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

All the most reliable leakers say it will support 4.0... Just sayin'. Well find out next week.

It's likely that the 3090 will have the highest performance of all of the bunch, but it's also likely that the flagship AMD will be close, (closer than the 3080 by a large margin) and less expensive.

Will it matter though? For example even though the 5500xt shouldn't be throttled by only an 8x PCIE3 lane, it does because of how it's designed.

 

Will the new AMD cards, regardless of performance level, suffer performance deficits on PCIE3?

 

If so, I might be forced to go green for once until I upgrade my whole system.

[BTGbullseye]

9 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

Will it matter though? For example even though the 5500xt shouldn't be throttled by only an 8x PCIE3 lane, it does because of how it's designed.

 

Will the new AMD cards, regardless of performance level, suffer performance deficits on PCIE3?

 

If so, I might be forced to go green for once until I upgrade my whole system.

Both vendors are likely to be using the extra bandwidth for something, as both have been leaking that they have projects specifically for that. So yeah, it really does matter.

 

From what I've read, the Nvidia cards are going to try and use non-GPU system resources to improve performance in GPU-bound situations. (like using spare CPU cores to improve render speeds, or system RAM as a pseudo RAMdisk for faster information exchange)

[Mister Woof]

6 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

Both vendors are likely to be using the extra bandwidth for something, as both have been leaking that they have projects specifically for that. So yeah, it really does matter.

 

From what I've read, the Nvidia cards are going to try and use non-GPU system resources to improve performance in GPU-bound situations. (like using spare CPU cores to improve render speeds, or system RAM as a pseudo RAMdisk for faster information exchange)

Maybe I'll finally have a reason to upgrade off this 3 year old system

[BTGbullseye]

5 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

Maybe I'll finally have a reason to upgrade off this 3 year old system

I'd wait for the Ryzen 4000 launch to decide, as that's only supposed to be a month or so out now.

[Mister Woof]

4 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

I'd wait for the Ryzen 4000 launch to decide, as that's only supposed to be a month or so out now.

Oh definitely not that soon.

 

The only thing that could convince me at this point is

 

1. The 3070/big navi equiv. card throttles under pcie3 more than 20%

2. my cpu dies

3. someone else in my house pc dies

[BTGbullseye]

1 minute ago, Mister Woof said:

The only thing that could convince me at this point is

 

1. The 3070/big navi equiv. card throttles under pcie3 more than 20%

Not likely.

1 minute ago, Mister Woof said:

2. my cpu dies

No idea how likely that is... Are you overclocking with poor cooling? That may speed things up some... 

3 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

3. someone else in my house pc dies

You could always take a hammer to them... That'll cause their PCs to die pretty fast. Might want to take the case panel off first though.

[Mister Woof]

3 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

Not likely.

No idea how likely that is... Are you overclocking with poor cooling? That may speed things up some... 

You could always take a hammer to them... That'll cause their PCs to die pretty fast. Might want to take the case panel off first though.

i really want to upgrade for a card that has competent Ray Tracing, and so I can finally retired my son's RX 570 by shifting down GPUs.