Just buy a Mac Pro

[BillNyeThecommieSpy]

42 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Where to start. Yes Windows 10 is a funny animal. I know people who have had Zero issues. Then there are people like me who have had a ton of issues. I determined that Windows 10 hates old hardware. My old Ivybridge machine had nothing but issues, however my new Ryzen machine not a single issue. Most issues are probably driver related. So updating the drivers might go a long way. Next it could just be two piece of hardware fighting, while this is rare it can happen. 

 

My concern with spending all this money on a Mac Pro is Apple in the next two years is going to move their machines to their own ARM chips. That means that support for Intel based Macs eventually is going away. While Im sure they will get their 5 years of support, there might be issues later in life with software support and such. Also MacOS is not immune from bugs. Ive experienced a few myself. Nothing as catastrophic as I have with Windows 10, but still I have found a few. 

That assumption is sketch as best, as we don't really have a big enough sample size to see that Win 10 hates old HW (guy running sandy with 0 problems here)

[Blizzforte]

27 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

fixing your current machine

Now that is the issue. Not a chance I'm sending my rig to the warranty support as they have abysmal ratings and the service takes weeks. Also only 1 month left of warranty. And fixing it myself is a lost cause as I'm totally clueless were to even begin, and I don't want to waste even more time finding the error. I've already invested many hours in research and I've found nothing so I should maybe just classify this PC as a failed 2,000 dollar project and buy a new one. Now the question is do I buy the Mac Pro or a PC from Origin? I'm not in the US so I can't buy from Puget. 

[Blizzforte]

33 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

What are you actually doing on the PC? 

Using it for gaming, downloading, heavy browsing, media consumption. Maybe 4K editing. 

 

 

[Donut417]

7 minutes ago, Blizzforte said:

Using it for gaming, downloading, heavy browsing, media consumption. Maybe 4K editing. 

 

 

Again, gaming is not going to be pleasant. Even if you install Windows, I’ve read that performance takes a hit in Windows. Because Apple has to supply the drivers and they work, but not well. 

[Donut417]

21 minutes ago, BillNyeThecommieSpy said:

That assumption is sketch as best, as we don't really have a big enough sample size to see that Win 10 hates old HW (guy running sandy with 0 problems here)

Well there are a lot of people posting online with issues. Besides that desktop my Haswell laptop also had issues. My sisters old Intel Laptop also has had some issues. My moms machine is newer and again issues. This is the reason I bought a MacBook Pro with the stimulus money I got from the government. I only use my PC for gaming. My old Ivybridge machine now runs Linux and is a Plex server and guess what? No issues what so ever. 

[BillNyeThecommieSpy]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

Well there are a lot of people posting online with issues. Besides that desktop my Haswell laptop also had issues. My sisters old Intel Laptop also has had some issues. My moms machine is newer and again issues. This is the reason I bought a MacBook Pro with the stimulus money I got from the government. I only use my PC for gaming. My old Ivybridge machine now runs Linux and is a Plex server and guess what? No issues what so ever. 

Eh, seems as if the RnG gods decide your luck with windows

[Donut417]

4 minutes ago, BillNyeThecommieSpy said:

Eh, seems as if the RnG gods decide your luck with windows

That’s why I started moving to other OS’s. I won’t buy an Arm Mac. So this is likely the first and only Mac I’ll own. I don’t do much gaming, so when and if I ever replace that machine I’ll probably do a Linux based system from now on. 

[Blizzforte]

7 minutes ago, Cvet76 said:

What does event viewer say after the crashes?

I've tried to find something in the event viewer before but I found no big issues. 

[Blizzforte]

I guess the only options left are Origin PC or the Mac Pro. As I don't live in the US, I can't contact Puget Systems. And I don't want to build a PC myself and run into more issues for more money. I'm tired of PC issues. It should just work. And I don't know if I trust other brand PC's anymore who pre-build systems. 

[Donut417]

24 minutes ago, Blizzforte said:

I guess the only options left are Origin PC or the Mac Pro. As I don't live in the US, I can't contact Puget Systems. And I don't want to build a PC myself and run into more issues for more money. I'm tired of PC issues. It should just work. And I don't know if I trust other brand PC's anymore who pre-build systems. 

Well then do a Macpro and a game console. Game consoles are drop in no fuss. 

[Lord Vile]

27 minutes ago, Blizzforte said:

I guess the only options left are Origin PC or the Mac Pro. As I don't live in the US, I can't contact Puget Systems. And I don't want to build a PC myself and run into more issues for more money. I'm tired of PC issues. It should just work. And I don't know if I trust other brand PC's anymore who pre-build systems. 

Try NZXT BLD? Their H1 mini ITX is quite slick and they do bigger boxes too. 

[Blizzforte]

5 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Well then do a Macpro and a game console. Game consoles are drop in no fuss. 

The thing is I have a shitload of games on steam. 

[Blizzforte]

10 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Try NZXT BLD? Their H1 mini ITX is quite slick and they do bigger boxes too. 

Is this service comparable to Puget? How is the support? How long do their machines last? 

[Lord Vile]

18 minutes ago, Blizzforte said:

Is this service comparable to Puget? How is the support? How long do their machines last? 

https://www.letsbld.com/

 

Apparently it's fairly decent and isn't too pricy, a lot better value than a Mac for gaming. 

 

personally would build my own, with 6K in budget you can pretty much guarantee no headaches. I mean you can literally just buy your way out of headaches.

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	Intel Core i9-10900K 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor	£559.99 @ Amazon UK
CPU Cooler	Asus ROG RYUJIN 360 121.8 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler	£215.98 @ Ebuyer
Motherboard	Asus ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO (WI-FI) ATX LGA1200 Motherboard	£408.92 @ More Computers
Memory	Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory	£286.49 @ Amazon UK
Storage	Samsung 860 Evo 4 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive	£519.74 @ Ebuyer
Video Card	Asus GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB ROG Strix Gaming OC Video Card	£1149.99 @ Box Limited
Case	NZXT H710i ATX Mid Tower Case	£149.99 @ Amazon UK
Power Supply	SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Platinum 750 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply	£179.48 @ Newegg UK
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	£3470.58
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-08-18 16:09 BST+0100

 

[harryk]

5 hours ago, Blizzforte said:

I just need a reliable and great PC that lasts a long time. I'm tired of having issues with my Desktop PC and I spend 2K for that system. There is always something not working correctly and I'm tired of it. If one is spending so much money, it must just work and last a long time. Now I'm just thinking about buying a Mac Pro for this reason. The build of this thing is premium and the support is as well. So this system will likely last for a decade or more. It's even perfectly upgradable. It's very expensive, but if it guarantees that I'll have no headaches because of fixing and finding out issues for a decade, maybe it's even worth it.

I did exactly this almost 7 years ago with the 2013 Mac Pro and it has been my daily driver and main work machine since. I couldn't be happier with this machine; it just works without fault. I expect to keeping using it for at least a few more years. For daily non-intensive tasks it works flawlessly. Even for heavier tasks like video editing its not slow; it's just as capable as it ever was. Sure something newer would be faster but I don't really need that today. 

 

Of all the devices Apple makes, the Mac Pro line has always received the longest lasting software support. I also wouldn't concern myself with the move to ARM too much. I can't predict the future but I expect the Mac Pro to be the last machine to switch to ARM and I predict at least a couple years before that happens. Even after the switch, Apple will likely continue to support the old machines for some time. 

 

2 hours ago, Blizzforte said:

Using it for gaming, downloading, heavy browsing, media consumption. Maybe 4K editing. 

As other have said gaming will be an issue on the Mac Pro. If you're not obsessed with maximum performance you'll likely be satisfied though. 

 

Other things to consider:

- Do you like MacOS? This is probably more important than anything else. The OS will affect the reliability and experience much more than the hardware. 

- Do you really need the full-on Mac Pro? A top end Mac Mini is very powerful and will do 99% of what a Mac Pro can unless you truly are utilizing the full potential of the Mac Pro.

 

[Blizzforte]

31 minutes ago, harryk said:

I did exactly this almost 7 years ago with the 2013 Mac Pro and it has been my daily driver and main work machine since. I couldn't be happier with this machine; it just works without fault. I expect to keeping using it for at least a few more years. For daily non-intensive tasks it works flawlessly. Even for heavier tasks like video editing its not slow; it's just as capable as it ever was. Sure something newer would be faster but I don't really need that today. 

 

Of all the devices Apple makes, the Mac Pro line has always received the longest lasting software support. I also wouldn't concern myself with the move to ARM too much. I can't predict the future but I expect the Mac Pro to be the last machine to switch to ARM and I predict at least a couple years before that happens. Even after the switch, Apple will likely continue to support the old machines for some time. 

 

As other have said gaming will be an issue on the Mac Pro. If you're not obsessed with maximum performance you'll likely be satisfied though. 

 

Other things to consider:

- Do you like MacOS? This is probably more important than anything else. The OS will affect the reliability and experience much more than the hardware. 

- Do you really need the full-on Mac Pro? A top end Mac Mini is very powerful and will do 99% of what a Mac Pro can unless you truly are utilizing the full potential of the Mac Pro.

 

- I like macOS a lot. I also like Windows. I've been using both for many years. I need Windows for gaming and downloading. Windows has software I don't get with macOS though. 

- It depends on how many years a Mac Mini will last compared to the Mac Pro. 

[Lord Vile]

51 minutes ago, Blizzforte said:

- I like macOS a lot. I also like Windows. I've been using both for many years. I need Windows for gaming and downloading. Windows has software I don't get with macOS though. 

- It depends on how many years a Mac Mini will last compared to the Mac Pro. 

The Mac pro is a workstation it has a lot of features you pay for but personally won't use like HEDT CPUs, 1.5TB of RAM expandability etc. The Top spec Mac Mini is still a 6 core 12 thread chip so isn't a slouch. 

[Donut417]

2 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

The Mac pro is a workstation it has a lot of features you pay for but personally won't use like HEDT CPUs, 1.5TB of RAM expandability etc. The Top spec Mac Mini is still a 6 core 12 thread chip so isn't a slouch. 

Good point. The OP might be better off with a Mac Mini and they are cheaper. 

[Lord Vile]

Just now, Donut417 said:

Good point. The OP might be better off with a Mac Mini and they are cheaper. 

Would still say for gaming they should build a PC for 3-4K and they would have no hardware headaches assuming they build it properly and not like the verge. 

[Donut417]

Just now, Lord Vile said:

Would still say for gaming they should build a PC for 3-4K and they would have no hardware headaches assuming they build it properly and not like the verge. 

I’d say just get a game console. The OP doesn’t want to screw around with the machine if something happens. 

[Lord Vile]

6 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

I’d say just get a game console. The OP doesn’t want to screw around with the machine if something happens. 

Bit silly getting a console now though

[Darkseth]

9 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

I'm sorry but that one is on you. If that wasn't your fault, then everyone else would have issues as well.

 

My system is working great, because it's configured well and I know how to use it properly.

I disagree.

How about Butterfly Keyboards. I used a Model for a year, didn't had any issues. So everyone who has issues, is typing wrong? Because that is essentially what you're saying.

I build a PC for my GF, with a Ryzen 2700X and 5700 (Because it was 299 on black Friday, almost 100 bucks cheaper than Nvidia). Was 8 months of always crashes, this and that. All settings standard. Tried different Ram, different settings, nothing worked.

Switched her GPU for my GTX 1080, and suddenly, no more Crashes.

So tell me, what did i do wrong, except buying AMD instead Nvidia? Did we sit wrong in front of the PC? Was our facial expression wrong? Did we use the Keyboard wrong?

Do i have to learn a secred ritual and sacraficing a Goat in order for a Graphic Card to NOT crash and just work when i didn't change any Settings?

 

A Friend of mine, after 2 Nvidia Touring models, now has a 5700 XT. has only problems because he has 1 single Game this Card won't crash on. Nvidia cards had no issues.

 

On These 2 Cases: Navi / RDNA1 is known for having all kinds of Problems.

That has NOTHING to do with the User, or configuration, or "how to use it properly". some products just give you more problems than others.

And this is just one single Example out of many, including Windows just having it's typical bugs/issues that appear sometimes or not.

 

 

If a System doesn't work PERFECTLY "out of the Box", or "without changing ANY settings like OC or anything", it is NOT on the User. Period.

 

Just blindly blaming the User, as if the Manufacturer is completely impossible to make any mistakes ever, is just way too simple of an excuse for a Problem.

[Morgan MLGman]

5 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

what did i do wrong, except buying AMD instead Nvidia?

Honestly, failing to diagnose the issue much sooner. The 5700 series had prolonged driver issues for some time after launch, resulting in crashes/black screens and many other issues - that, or you just got a defective GPU which also is possible.

A defective product line can happen, obviously - Apple released a lot of product lines like that as well.
Just last year: https://www.tomsguide.com/us/apple-macbook-battery-recall,news-30412.html
Almost 500 000 MBPs recalled because they posed a ‘fire safety risk’. Following your logic does that mean everyone who bought that MBP should ditch apple because "all they did wrong" was buying Apple MBP over, say Dell XPS 15?

[Darkseth]

@Morgan MLGman

True, i failed to diagnose it much sooner.

But my GF wasn't gmaing 20h/day, and i wasn't spending 100% of my Time to that issue. And maybe i was a bit lazy sometimes.

But you just agreed with me, thanks for that: It couldn't possible be MY Fault, that I did anything wrong, to cause the crashes.

The Product was fault.

It was MY Fault for not finding the Problem sooner.

2 entire different Things.

Finding the Problem does not magically make the problem disappear.

So, still, youre wrong here: It's NOT the User's Fault for the Problem.

 

The crashes and Bluescreens were also ones, that indicated Memory as the Reason, i counted like 4 different Bluescreen Codes over the past Months alone, which made it not that easy to diagnose the Problem. I focused on Ram first, because i also cheaped out on the CPU, by chosing Zen+ over Zen2, or even Intel.

Since Zen and Zen+ also were known for having MASSIVE issues with Ram.

 

 

Well, in that Case, you could just send your Macbook in, let them change the battery, and problem Solved.

Can i do the same with the 5700? When so many brandnew models have severe issues, still today. There are alot who claim the Problems are fixed (also something, that makes people buy it, and not Nvidia), but they aren't fixed.

We however did switch the GPU back, and going to see. If it still crashes, we're gonna RMA it 1-2 times, and if nothing helps, sell it and switch to Nvidia.

 

 

However... I can fully agree with what you just said, because it's what i said. It's the Companies fault, it's not working.

it's Apple's Fault for fucking up the batteries on that line.

It's Apple's Fault for fucking up Buterfly (idk if they even knew it from the Start).

It's AMD's Fault for fucking up RDNA1.

 

 

It's NOT Always the User's Fault when something doesn't work perfectly, this alone was my core Statement.

 

And with your last Sentence, you probably didn't understand MY argument. With "except for buying Nvidia and not AMD" i was trying to say, that there is literaly NOTHING the user could do, to make the crashes stop, when the Graphics Card itself is flawed.

Because YOU claimed: Whenever something doesn't work, the User is fault, because it can't possibly be anything else.

[Morgan MLGman]

20 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

But you just agreed with me, thanks for that: It couldn't possible be MY Fault, that I did anything wrong, to cause the crashes.

The Product was fault.

It was MY Fault for not finding the Problem sooner.

2 entire different Things.

You're looking at this all wrong. When it's a custom-built PC, you should be able to perform some basic diagnostics - by way of elimination and the fact that it was widespread knowledge (the RX 5700-series issues) you could probably have a good idea what's causing the problem. True, it was the product that was defective, but it's your job as a user to do something about it.

20 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

And with your last Sentence, you probably didn't understand MY argument. With "except for buying Nvidia and not AMD" i was trying to say, that there is literaly NOTHING the user could do, to make the crashes stop, when the Graphics Card itself is flawed.

I disagree, there was a lot that you could've done - you could've returned the card, you could've RMA'd it if the return period ended, you could've tried playing with the drivers before doing that etc. Not every 5700 had those problems.

20 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

Well, in that Case, you could just send your Macbook in, let them change the battery, and problem Solved.

Same thing applies here - you could just send your GPU for an RMA, or pay some IT repair shop to diagnose and fix it for you.
 

20 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

Whenever something doesn't work, the User is fault, because it can't possibly be anything else.

I never said that. I said that it's either faulty hardware or the user.