Just buy a Mac Pro

[jaslion]

Just now, Blizzforte said:

That would mean I have to replace every component except the case because it's unknown where the perma-freeze issue comes from. That would make it as expensive as just buying a new PC. Now the prices on Pudget Systems are just as pricey as the Mac Pro. I could just go with the Mac Pro then. 

 

The BIOS would maybe fix the perma-freeze issue, that's why. 

No literally just start with a better cooler and position the gpu normally so it doesn't choke itself against the glass. When does the perma freeze even happen?

[Blizzforte]

2 minutes ago, Den-Fi said:

SOME Origin PCs are premium. Some just ride the coat tails of the brand name. This is why one cannot look at brand names as a whole and consider something premium in terms of technology. The word premium in and of itself is meaningless. It gets attached to everything, as does the Pro moniker.

 

Look at where money goes. You have premium brands that are premium because they say they are premium. The money goes to marketing.

You have premium brands that are premium because the money goes into support and validation. That premium name is build on reputation.

 

Validation can then go into a few categories too. Like the Mac Pro. LOTS of its money goes into validation. It uses CPUs that have TONS of money that went into validation. You have the Radeon Pro Duo that had TONS of money poured into validation. But validation for who? Probably not you. It's for certain industries, not average consumers. This is why you have people buying what some call "slower" computers. I prefer to call them purpose build. This is why you have to be careful. The purpose in that purpose-built system might not be YOUR purpose.

You are right about that. The thing is, the validation that's in the Mac Pro could mean having a system that just finally works for many years. I'm not a professional power user, but I'm a heavy user that just wants peace of mind and a PC that just works out of the box. 

 

Now the problem I know of is that ARM is around the corner. And how long the Mac Pro will get updates into the future. 

[Guest]

Just now, Blizzforte said:

You are right about that. The thing is, the validation that's in the Mac Pro could mean having a system that just finally works for many years. I'm not a professional power user, but I'm a heavy user that just wants peace of mind and a PC that just works out of the box. 

 

Now the problem I know of is that ARM is around the corner. And how long the Mac Pro will get updates into the future. 

Yes, of course. But the hyper focus of that validation could mean you run into broader consumer-level issues they never took into account.

I doubt this will happen, but as you said, one must consider platform. Where will Apple's focus be in 5 years? Who is to say.

The computer won't just magically stop working, but with how locked down things are with the T2 security chip, it brings concern.

You and repair shops are locked out of the repair process (as of right now). Apple stuff can last a while and holds its value, but Apple does have the attitude of "make repair prices so high that they'll just buy a new one." And that's what a lot of people do. This is why the used Apple market was booming until the whole T2 chip stepped in.

[Morgan MLGman]

6 minutes ago, Blizzforte said:

the validation that's in the Mac Pro could mean having a system that just finally works for many years.

You're mistaken as to what "validation" is - validation means the parts are validated (aka verified) to work in that particular configuration, it has nothing to do with longevity.

[Blizzforte]

3 minutes ago, jaslion said:

No literally just start with a better cooler and position the gpu normally so it doesn't choke itself against the glass. When does the perma freeze even happen?

All time. When gaming, in idle, when browsing the web. It happens hourly, or weekly or monthly. 

[jaslion]

1 minute ago, Blizzforte said:

All time. When gaming, in idle, when browsing the web. It happens hourly, or weekly or monthly. 

I'd start by monitoring your temperatures. These systems are very known for heat related issues. That and psu issues. Either way if you are not willing to do so you could just build your own system and reuse parts from the current one if you wish or get a totally new one and sell this.

 

Did you use the windows install it came with? There is often a lot of bloatware on that which has been known to cause issues with windows curruption and a fresh install is always recommended.

[Blizzforte]

3 minutes ago, Den-Fi said:

Yes, of course. But the hyper focus of that validation could mean you run into broader consumer-level issues they never took into account.

I doubt this will happen, but as you said, one must consider platform. Where will Apple's focus be in 5 years? Who is to say.

The computer won't just magically stop working, but with how locked down things are with the T2 security chip, it brings concern.

You and repair shops are locked out of the repair process (as of right now). Apple stuff can last a while and holds its value, but Apple does have the attitude of "make repair prices so high that they'll just buy a new one." And that's what a lot of people do. This is why the used Apple market was booming until the whole T2 chip stepped in.

That concept works with products like iPhones and MacBooks. But I highly doubt they can pull this off with a machine that costs $5,000 plus. This isn't something anyone just buys new because of an issue. That stuff needs repair. 

[jones177]

Glad you have a choice.

 

I moved from Amigas to PCs in the early 90s because that was were the software I was using to make a living was going.

I would have liked to have gone Mac since I was Motorola 68000 programer and I hated MSdos and Windows(still do).  

 

Now it has been about 28 years since PCs became my main computers and all the issues I have with them stem from that I build them myself. I am not an engineer.

 

On my productivity only computers I never had to reinstall Windows. It has always lasted as long as the HD it was installed on.

They all lasted until they were redundant.

 

This year has been the worst year for Windows updates causing issues for me but if I was still using them for work, updates would be turned off. 

 

I view Macs the same as I do consoles. Less choices so less chances for things to go wrong.

[Guest]

Just now, Blizzforte said:

That concept works with products like iPhones and MacBooks. But I highly doubt they can pull this off with a machine that costs $5,000 plus. This isn't something anyone just buys new because of an issue. That stuff needs repair. 

There are Macbooks that cost well over $5,000 that can easily become expensive paper weights.

You are underestimate what a trillion dollar company can get away with.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, Blizzforte said:

I just need a reliable and great PC that lasts a long time. I'm tired of having issues with my Desktop PC and I spend 2K for that system. There is always something not working correctly and I'm tired of it. If one is spending so much money, it must just work and last a long time. Now I'm just thinking about buying a Mac Pro for this reason. The build of this thing is premium and the support is as well. So this system will likely last for a decade or more. It's even perfectly upgradable. It's very expensive, but if it guarantees that I'll have no headaches because of fixing and finding out issues for a decade, maybe it's even worth it.

 

I spend most of my time in front of the PC. I almost never drive a car or need a car. A PC is the one thing that I always use for many different purposes. It would be a one time investment for the next decade of PC usage. Why not spending extra for a premium. Premium is always better, just because it lasts longer and causes no headaches and problems. And even if something happens, Apple Support is optimized for their own hardware and can fix it all. Having one premium PC that never fails is better then fuzzing about with 2-3 different desktops the next 10 years and having to find out all sort of crap. I'm a tech enthusiast, but I heavily dislike fixing PC things when I just want it to work. Out of the box. 

 

It is a lot of money. But the money is worth it if I no longer need to waste time fixing and finding out issues that shouldn't be there. Having everything working perfectly for a decade and saving headaches and time is worth more then the premium price tag.

 

Rather spend one premium price once, then trying out 3-4 different ones until one works. Or maybe I'm just talking bullshit and not seeing it from another perspective. In that case, please feel free to change my mind. 

Where to start. Yes Windows 10 is a funny animal. I know people who have had Zero issues. Then there are people like me who have had a ton of issues. I determined that Windows 10 hates old hardware. My old Ivybridge machine had nothing but issues, however my new Ryzen machine not a single issue. Most issues are probably driver related. So updating the drivers might go a long way. Next it could just be two piece of hardware fighting, while this is rare it can happen. 

 

My concern with spending all this money on a Mac Pro is Apple in the next two years is going to move their machines to their own ARM chips. That means that support for Intel based Macs eventually is going away. While Im sure they will get their 5 years of support, there might be issues later in life with software support and such. Also MacOS is not immune from bugs. Ive experienced a few myself. Nothing as catastrophic as I have with Windows 10, but still I have found a few. 

[Blizzforte]

1 minute ago, Den-Fi said:

There are Macbooks that cost well over $5,000 that can easily become expensive paper weights.

You are underestimate what a trillion dollar company can get away with.

I'm really not interested in buying something for 5K plus and still experience issues. I just want a high quality machine that lasts as many years as possible without issues. 

[jaslion]

4 minutes ago, Blizzforte said:

That concept works with products like iPhones and MacBooks. But I highly doubt they can pull this off with a machine that costs $5,000 plus. This isn't something anyone just buys new because of an issue. That stuff needs repair. 

Euhm that is exactly how it works for EVERY apple product. You do know that you cannot upgrade the ssd storage in the mac pro or change it out without it not turning on again ever right? If it's not an apple certified ssd installed by them and linked to the device the computer will not boot. This is specifically made to prevent you from keeping the device for too long.

[jaslion]

1 minute ago, Blizzforte said:

I'm really not interested in buying something for 5K plus and still experience issues. I just want a high quality machine that lasts as many years as possible without issues. 

I will ask the question again. Are you willing to build one yourself? If so do so. It's easy and this whole forum is here to help you.

[Guest]

Just now, Blizzforte said:

I'm really not interested in buying something for 5K plus and still experience issues. I just want a high quality machine that lasts as many years as possible without issues. 

Yes, I understand that and believe you were given the answer.

I'm just trying to make sure you understand that money does not guarantee longevity.

 

Start by giving Puget a call. https://www.pugetsystems.com/contact_expert.php

You don't have to buy from them, but call/message them and feel them out.

Even just that process can steer you in the right direction. Even if that direction is elsewhere.

But do start somewhere productive. Not just looking at price tags and opinions skewed by good marketing.

[Donut417]

Just now, jaslion said:

I will ask the question again. Are you willing to build one yourself? If so do so. It's easy and this whole forum is here to help you.

The OP might be better off with something from like Puget Systems. They do a lot of testing before shipping. Plus I heard they have excellent support. 

[Blizzforte]

5 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Where to start. Yes Windows 10 is a funny animal. I know people who have had Zero issues. Then there are people like me who have had a ton of issues. I determined that Windows 10 hates old hardware. My old Ivybridge machine had nothing but issues, however my new Ryzen machine not a single issue. Most issues are probably driver related. So updating the drivers might go a long way. Next it could just be two piece of hardware fighting, while this is rare it can happen. 

 

My concern with spending all this money on a Mac Pro is Apple in the next two years is going to move their machines to their own ARM chips. That means that support for Intel based Macs eventually is going away. While Im sure they will get their 5 years of support, there might be issues later in life with software support and such. Also MacOS is not immune from bugs. Ive experienced a few myself. Nothing as catastrophic as I have with Windows 10, but still I have found a few. 

I think it comes down to personal experience. I've never had serious problems with Apple products. That's why I "trust" them. That's why I think think the Mac Pro could be the PC I'm looking for. A PC that doesn't give me a headache for years to come.

[Blizzforte]

6 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Euhm that is exactly how it works for EVERY apple product. You do know that you cannot upgrade the ssd storage in the mac pro or change it out without it not turning on again ever right? If it's not an apple certified ssd installed by them and linked to the device the computer will not boot. This is specifically made to prevent you from keeping the device for too long.

I know of this. It's odd that everything is so easily upgradable except the SSD. Then again, I would just buy external SSD's. 

[Donut417]

Just now, Blizzforte said:

I think it comes down to personal experience. I've never had serious problems with Apple products. That's why I "trust" them. That's why I think think the Mac Pro could be the PC I'm looking for. A PC that doesn't give me a headache for years to come.

Same thing applies to Windows. But the fact is Intel based Mac's are on the chopping block. This is NO longer a rumor. I fear that devs will eventually just jump ship and no longer update Apps on the Intel models a few years down the road. So you need to be mindful of that. Because once Apple cuts support then the machine is pretty much done, that signals to devs they no longer have to support it. 

[jaslion]

Just now, Blizzforte said:

I know of this. It's odd that everything is so easily upgradable except the SSD. Then again, I would just buy external SSD's. 

That doesn't solve the issue of once that ssd fails and it will. The mac is useless. It's going to cost you A LOT of money to get it replaced as that is just how apple is. You seem to have gotten lucky with apple products in the past. Also you keep referring to it as a pc? Are you going to game on it or something? If that is what you wish to do then stop right there macs don't do games you need windows for that and if you are running that on a mac pro then you defeat the entire purpose of it's existence and you might as well just gone with a puget systems device.

 

You still haven't told us what you want to do on the computer so it's really hard to recommend anything.

[Blizzforte]

6 minutes ago, jaslion said:

I will ask the question again. Are you willing to build one yourself? If so do so. It's easy and this whole forum is here to help you.

The best case scenario for me is just plug and play. I'm not very interested in getting more headaches from learning how do build a PC myself. I've tried it before. After one week of extensive research gave up simply because I'm a perfectionist that can't decide what to use. I don't want this drama, just plug and play. 

[Blizzforte]

5 minutes ago, jaslion said:

That doesn't solve the issue of once that ssd fails and it will. The mac is useless. It's going to cost you A LOT of money to get it replaced as that is just how apple is. You seem to have gotten lucky with apple products in the past. Also you keep referring to it as a pc? Are you going to game on it or something? If that is what you wish to do then stop right there macs don't do games you need windows for that and if you are running that on a mac pro then you defeat the entire purpose of it's existence and you might as well just gone with a puget systems device.

 

You still haven't told us what you want to do on the computer so it's really hard to recommend anything.

I refer to it as a PC because it is a personal computer. I know people use these terms differently and often differentiate between Mac and PC as synonyms for macOS and Windows/Linux but they're both personal computers = PC's. That's just how I see it. 

 

Using it for gaming, downloading, heavy browsing, media consumption. Maybe 4K editing. 

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, Blizzforte said:

gaming

Macs and gaming, yeah.... Not really built for that. The amount of Steam games working on MacOS is probably less than the ones that work on Linux. Also, the GPU's Apple uses in their machines are not generally gaming grade cards, they are used for work not play. Workstation cards are not made for gaming duty. So my advice would be, fixing your current machine and using that specifically for gaming. 

[Lord Vile]

7 minutes ago, Blizzforte said:

The best case scenario for me is just plug and play. I'm not very interested in getting more headaches from learning how do build a PC myself. I've tried it before. After one week of extensive research gave up simply because I'm a perfectionist that can't decide what to use. I don't want this drama, just plug and play. 

What are you actually doing on the PC? 

[Lord Vile]

Just now, Donut417 said:

Macs and gaming, yeah.... Not really built for that. The amount of Steam games working on MacOS is probably less than the ones that work on Linux. Also, the GPU's Apple uses in their machines are not generally gaming grade cards, they are used for work not play. Workstation cards are not made for gaming duty. So my advice would be, fixing your current machine and using that specifically for gaming. 

TBF the Vega cards are decent but for a gaming machine Macs are pretty bad, then for value they're even worse. Mac Pros are really meant for professionals who need MacOS not everyone, hence the price and the super expensive wheels. 

[jaslion]

7 minutes ago, Blizzforte said:

I refer to it as a PC because it is a personal computer. I know people use these terms differently and often differentiate between Mac and PC as synonyms for macOS and Windows/Linux but they're both personal computers = PC's. That's just how I see it. 

 

Using it for gaming, downloading, heavy browsing, media consumption. Maybe 4K editing. 

Choice made right there. Macs and gaming just doesn't. Give Puget systems a call.