Intel Architecture Day 2020 - Improved 10nm, Tiger Lake, and Xe LP

[porina]

 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

If they were having problems with the die shrink they should have just not made the commitment to it

As a traded stock, they can't hide that under the carpet. Not providing truthful information that is material for someone to invest or not is a good way to get sued by investors later. They'be been sued for far less, as is the nature of this business.

 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

as it is the 10nm process will be too far behind when other CPU's are on 5nm.

Putting aside the wrongness of comparing the numbers across very different processes, I did have to look at roadmaps from both sides to try and get some timescale to this. AMD had versions of a roadmap showing Zen 4 on 5nm before a point on a line marked 2022. I have no idea if this is still the schedule as I didn't check how old those presentations were. Assuming Zen 3 is still on schedule for release this year, which is the best of my understanding, that'll put Zen 4 back on a one-year-ish cycle away.

 

On Intel side, we have more recent and direct information, that 10nm Alder Lake is due 2H 2021 for both desktop and mobile. That features Golden Cove cores, which is the generation after Willow Cove in the upcoming Tiger Lake mentioned in this thread. So we might still have a similar situation to today, in that Intel may be a process generation behind, but at least if they manage to execute successfully, the architecture will be generation competitive and the gap is closed relative to today where on desktop they are behind on both architecture and process.

 

Relative IPC:

Skylake vs Zen(+) (excluding AVX heavy tasks, where Skylake destroys Zen)

Sunny Cove vs Zen 2 (Zen 2 is the first AMD CPU to clearly pass Skylake. Older Zen had a lot of cases where they fell far short)

Willow Cove vs Zen 3?

Golden Cove vs Zen 4?

 

Of course we have the additional complication that Intel and AMD are releasing different CPUs in different parts of the stack at different times. Right now Intel is going Mobile, Server, Desktop. AMD does Server+Desktop, APU, Mobile. So it can be hard to compare the latest designs across different segments.

 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

So if you need a new Intel CPU for some reason, ok fine this might buy some time, but the lack of PCIe4/PCIe5, DDR5, and so forth is going to be the deathnell for the Skylake+++++ x infinite. Once DDR5 is available, Intel better have a 5nm cpu in the pipe or they're going to be left behind.

We now have confirmation that PCIe 4 is in Willow Cove, at least the Tiger Lake implementation of it. PCIe 5 we know they're working on, certainly for the server side. DDR5 on both sides will be gated by availability of the stuff.

 

Based on rumours Comet Lake should be the last of the desktop Skylake architecture derivatives. It is unclear if Rocket Lake is going to happen at all, and if it does, it is expected to be a 14nm implementation based on Willow Cove. Even if it doesn't happen, Alder Lake is expected in about a year.

[soldier_ph]

Great video from Hardware Unboxed explaining the Subject matter too:

 

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, -rascal- said:

 

Closet comparison I can find is the:

i3-10100 (4c / 8t 3.6 GHz base, up to 4.3 GHz boost)

Ryzen 3300X (4c / 8t, 3.8 GHz base, up to 4.3 GHz boost)

 

3300X is ahead most of the time.

 

Take UserBenchmark as a grain of salt, but i3-10300 vs Ryzen 3300X.

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i3-10300-vs-AMD-Ryzen-3-3300X/4074vs4076

none of that is relevant if the context was on first version of the r3 in regards to IPC  as compared to anything from Intel.  

 

 

The problem with the discussion is trying to define what constitutes stagnation in chasing IPC.  if we are comparing AMD to Intel then we have to measure when they caught up from when they were last in front, not from an arbitrary product.. If they didn't catch up  until they released the 2000's then that is the point of measure,  but it was definitely before the 3300x

[thechinchinsong]

Another day, another roadmap. I'll believe it when I see product listings on Amazon with desktop processors and laptops that have the mobile ones.

[thechinchinsong]

3 hours ago, porina said:

Relative IPC:

Skylake vs Zen(+) (excluding AVX heavy tasks, where Skylake destroys Zen)

Sunny Cove vs Zen 2 (Zen 2 is the first AMD CPU to clearly pass Skylake. Older Zen had a lot of cases where they fell far short)

Willow Cove vs Zen 3?

Golden Cove vs Zen 4?

Isn't it Skylake vs Zen 2? That's what out right now right?

[williamcll]

Ok but where is my 10nm i9?

[Results45]

Looks like you technically beat me to it.

 

Message to mods: if you end up deciding to close my thread, can you at least merge it with this one?

 

Edit: seems like the OP here refers mostly to newly-released CPU info. Hopefully mine stays unlocked since it focuses more on the GPU side.

[porina]

7 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

Isn't it Skylake vs Zen 2? That's what out right now right?

I was looking at it from an general IPC perspective. Zen/Zen+ were AMD's first catchup step, and roughly comparable to Skylake if you exclude the use case of heavy AVX workloads. Zen 2 addressed that and also caught up and passed in AVX performance, as well as refinements in other areas. Intel had not stood still, and Sunny cove was out then bringing with it general IPC improvements, in a similar way Zen 2 did relative to Zen(+). Not on desktop, but mobile only. From an architecture perspective, I'm comparing the best of both sides. 

 

5 hours ago, Results45 said:

Looks like you technically beat me to it.

 

Message to mods: if you end up deciding to close my thread, can you at least merge it with this one?

 

Edit: seems like the OP here refers mostly to newly-released CPU info. Hopefully mine stays unlocked since it focuses more on the GPU side.

Just saw your thread, IMO it is different enough from this one, but not my call.

[WereCatf]

Given how literally no one else has said anything about GVT-g, I suppose I am the only one who is interested in that stuff. That said, I figure it might still be worth mentioning that I did notice several commits in Intel's GVT-g Github-repo related to DG1, which could hint that GVT-g - support might actually happen.

[Ash_Kechummm]

8 hours ago, WereCatf said:

Given how literally no one else has said anything about GVT-g, I suppose I am the only one who is interested in that stuff. That said, I figure it might still be worth mentioning that I did notice several commits in Intel's GVT-g Github-repo related to DG1, which could hint that GVT-g - support might actually happen.

What is GVT-g? If it's in the first post, im not as attentive of a reader as i think i am

 

[WereCatf]

3 minutes ago, Ash_Kechummm said:

What is GVT-g? If it's in the first post, im not as attentive of a reader as i think i am

It allows you to share the GPU simultaneously for virtual-machines and the host, allowing access to QuickSync, 3D-acceleration, OpenCL etc. from them all. With consumer-grade NVIDIA and AMD GPUs, you can only pass the GPU through to a single VM and the host can't use it then, but Intel's iGPUs don't have this limitation.