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Chowing a new camera: Which lens system is better: Canon RF, or Nikon Z?

TechGizmoDude
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Hello all,
 

With my current camera coming up on 5 years old, I have decided to upgrade. Currently, I am choosing between the Canon R6 (still waiting for reviews on them though) and the Nikon Z 6. Based solely off of the spec sheet, the cameras are pretty neck and neck on paper (with the exception of the one XQD slot in the Nikon vs. the two UHS II SD slots in the Canon). I was wondering what anyone thinks of the Nikon Z system vs. the Canon RF system overall (mostly the the budget end of the spectrum), and anyone’s thoughts/experiences with the Nikon Z 6 and the Canon R6. Also, any recommendations and comparisons with any Sony’s (or other DSLRs), I don’t their lineup very well. I am intermediate photographer who only moved away from phone photography a couple of years ago.

 

Thank you.
 

 

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@Den-Fi

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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I'd take the R6, given you can put any canon EF lens onto super easily. the RF mount doesn't have a ton of budget lens options so that back to EF is key.

 

 

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The R6 or Z5 (not the Z6) are both good choices. Canon's high end lens line up is a bit better fleshed out whereas Nikon's lower and mid tier lens line ups are a bit better fleshed out. Personally, I think it's a tie between the two with Nikon having an edge in the bodies and Canon having an edge on the lenses. You can use both systems' legacy SLR lenses via adapter, so I'd say they're tied on that front, too. 

 

If I were choosing between the two, I'd probably go with the Nikon Z5 as Nikon tends to have better sensors. (I also have a personal nark on for Canon after building up many little frustrations having shot Canon for about a decade. I also prefer to support the underdog, which is Nikon).

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30 minutes ago, YellowJersey said:

The R6 or Z5 (not the Z6) are both good choices. Canon's high end lens line up is a bit better fleshed out whereas Nikon's lower and mid tier lens line ups are a bit better fleshed out. Personally, I think it's a tie between the two with Nikon having an edge in the bodies and Canon having an edge on the lenses. You can use both systems' legacy SLR lenses via adapter, so I'd say they're tied on that front, too. 

 

If I were choosing between the two, I'd probably go with the Nikon Z5 as Nikon tends to have better sensors. (I also have a personal nark on for Canon after building up many little frustrations having shot Canon for about a decade. I also prefer to support the underdog, which is Nikon).

Why not the Z 6, does a BSI sensor matter for low light photography (sunsets mostly) and landscapes?

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1 hour ago, TechGizmoDude said:

Why not the Z 6, does a BSI sensor matter for low light photography (sunsets mostly) and landscapes?


 My primary reasons for the Z5 are:
 1) Z6 is a first-generation product.
 2) Z5 has dual card slots.

 But I do enjoy the BSI sensor with no low pass filter, too. Nikon's sensors tend to have better dynamic range and lower noise compared to Canon.

 **Edit: Also, the Z5 is way more affordable compared to the R6. You can buy a Z5 and a nice lens or two for the price of an R6 body. I'd only go Z6 or R6 if you're more into video.

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4 hours ago, TechGizmoDude said:

Hello all,
 

With my current camera coming up on 5 years old, I have decided to upgrade. Currently, I am choosing between the Canon R6 (still waiting for reviews on them though) and the Nikon Z 6. Based solely off of the spec sheet, the cameras are pretty neck and neck on paper (with the exception of the one XQD slot in the Nikon vs. the two UHS II SD slots in the Canon). I was wondering what anyone thinks of the Nikon Z system vs. the Canon RF system overall (mostly the the budget end of the spectrum), and anyone’s thoughts/experiences with the Nikon Z 6 and the Canon R6. Also, any recommendations and comparisons with any Sony’s (or other DSLRs), I don’t their lineup very well. I am intermediate photographer who only moved away from phone photography a couple of years ago.

 

Thank you.
 

 

What mount is your current camera? Wouldn't you want to stay in that ecosystem so you can move your lenses across without any faff? 

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13 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

What mount is your current camera? Wouldn't you want to stay in that ecosystem so you can move your lenses across without any faff? 

My current camera is a DX F mount, but I only have a kit lens so I am not really stuck

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15 hours ago, YellowJersey said:


 My primary reasons for the Z5 are:
 1) Z6 is a first-generation product.
 2) Z5 has dual card slots.

 But I do enjoy the BSI sensor with no low pass filter, too. Nikon's sensors tend to have better dynamic range and lower noise compared to Canon.

 **Edit: Also, the Z5 is way more affordable compared to the R6. You can buy a Z5 and a nice lens or two for the price of an R6 body. I'd only go Z6 or R6 if you're more into video.

What lenses would you recommend for Z 5 Or Z 6 (if they refresh it with better card slots) if I only have around $2500 to send on a body and lenses?

 

Edit: 

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15 minutes ago, TechGizmoDude said:

My current camera is a DX F mount, but I only have a kit lens so I am not really stuck

Ah fairs

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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Why do you think it's time to upgrade your camera? What do you miss? 

 

Always bear in mind: IQ is mostly a question of your lens and not your body. Sure, there are some improvements especially in ISO noise performance and AF-wise but overall the jumps are not gigantic. You have a kit lens - that means mediocre performance all around. Switching the camera system and mounting entry/budget level lenses to it won't improve your photography.

 

My recommendation is always: invest in glass not in bodies.

 

There are many working photographers around that still use (maybe not all the time at this point) Canon 5D mkii models. Those are over 10 years old. They get the job done. Yes, they have their limitations but (don't take this as an insult) I have my sincere doubts those limitations will limit you in your photography.

 

But to answer your initial question:

RF wins in absolute quality terms over Z thanks to the high end professional L glass. However, there's barely any budget-friendly glass so you'll have to use the adaptors and EF glass - huge used market to benefit from. Z has more mid-range options and is overall more budget-friendly but it lacks the stunning pro glass.

Use the quote function when answering! Mark people directly if you want an answer from them!

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2 hours ago, bowrilla said:

Why do you think it's time to upgrade your camera? What do you miss? 

 

Always bear in mind: IQ is mostly a question of your lens and not your body. Sure, there are some improvements especially in ISO noise performance and AF-wise but overall the jumps are not gigantic. You have a kit lens - that means mediocre performance all around. Switching the camera system and mounting entry/budget level lenses to it won't improve your photography.

 

My recommendation is always: invest in glass not in bodies.

 

There are many working photographers around that still use (maybe not all the time at this point) Canon 5D mkii models. Those are over 10 years old. They get the job done. Yes, they have their limitations but (don't take this as an insult) I have my sincere doubts those limitations will limit you in your photography.

 

But to answer your initial question:

RF wins in absolute quality terms over Z thanks to the high end professional L glass. However, there's barely any budget-friendly glass so you'll have to use the adaptors and EF glass - huge used market to benefit from. Z has more mid-range options and is overall more budget-friendly but it lacks the stunning pro glass.

TBF I recently got a second lens and it's so much better than the kit.

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19 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

TBF I recently got a second lens and it's so much better than the kit.

even cheap primes are often better than the kit

Good luck, Have fun, Build PC, and have a last gen console for use once a year. I should answer most of the time between 9 to 3 PST

NightHawk 3.0: R7 5700x @, B550A vision D, H105, 2x32gb Oloy 3600, Sapphire RX 6700XT  Nitro+, Corsair RM750X, 500 gb 850 evo, 2tb rocket and 5tb Toshiba x300, 2x 6TB WD Black W10 all in a 750D airflow.
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50 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

TBF I recently got a second lens and it's so much better than the kit.

Which is exactly why you invest in glass and not in bodies first. Rather spend big on glass and stay budget on the body than vice versa.

Use the quote function when answering! Mark people directly if you want an answer from them!

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6 hours ago, TechGizmoDude said:

What lenses would you recommend for Z 5 Or Z 6 (if they refresh it with better card slots) if I only have around $2500 to send on a body and lenses?

 

Edit: 

That depends. What do you shoot?

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6 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

even cheap primes are often better than the kit

No cheap lens' for mine :)

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3 minutes ago, bowrilla said:

Why do you think it's time to upgrade your camera? What do you miss? 

 

Always bear in mind: IQ is mostly a question of your lens and not your body. Sure, there are some improvements especially in ISO noise performance and AF-wise but overall the jumps are not gigantic. You have a kit lens - that means mediocre performance all around. Switching the camera system and mounting entry/budget level lenses to it won't improve your photography.

 

My recommendation is always: invest in glass not in bodies.

 

There are many working photographers around that still use (maybe not all the time at this point) Canon 5D mkii models. Those are over 10 years old. They get the job done. Yes, they have their limitations but (don't take this as an insult) I have my sincere doubts those limitations will limit you in your photography.

 

But to answer your initial question:

RF wins in absolute quality terms over Z thanks to the high end professional L glass. However, there's barely any budget-friendly glass so you'll have to use the adaptors and EF glass - huge used market to benefit from. Z has more mid-range options and is overall more budget-friendly but it lacks the stunning pro glass.

I see, currently, I have Nikon D3400, 18-55mm VR AF-P, and 70-300mm AF-P. Some reasons I want to upgrade are: the AF in low light on my camera is slow, inaccurate and there are only 11 points that cover about a 1/3 of the sensor, and the ISO noise at anything above 800 is terrible.

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15 hours ago, YellowJersey said:

That depends. What do you shoot?

Mostly landscapes

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Just now, TechGizmoDude said:

Mostly landscapes

And animals

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1 hour ago, TechGizmoDude said:

Mostly landscapes

If your budget is $2500 USD then that's not a lot to work with. I shoot mostly landscapes, too. In your shoes, I'd probably go with the Nikkor 14-30mm f/4; it would be a pretty versatile landscape lens that'll cover you most of the time. Plus, it accepts traditional screw-on filters, so you wouldn't need a fancy filter set up that most lenses that go this wide need due to a bulbous front element. Image quality is excellent with this lens, too. The only downside, is that it doesn't give you much reach. I shot with a 16-35mm f/4 almost exclusively for years, though, so for landscapes, the 14-30mm f/4 would be an excellent choice. It puts you slightly over budget at at around $2695 USD, but if you wait for a sale, you can probably get it down to around $2500.

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Well, for landscapes, you don't need much ISO or AF.  You can pretty easily go (and often want to go) to shutter speeds of up to a second and longer - smoothes out water, potentially also skies and up to a second usually works pretty well at night without getting star trails. In fact, many landscape photographers use ND filters to get longer exposure times while controlling the light. So no need for an ISO monster. Landscapephotography doesn't put your AF to the test either - nothing moving around and you usually close your aperture quite far down to get larger DoF so it's not that critical. The sensor of the D3400 is fine and has a respectable dynamic range that's mostly on par with most modern cameras. Looking at the test images available, ISO1600 looks usable with a managable amount of noise - use the noise reduction when post processing your RAW images - a little bit worse than i.e. a 5d mkii, a lot finer though. Difference ~1 stop I estimate. 

 

Your 18-55mm lens on your APS-C camera has a maximum field of view of a 27mm on full frame. That's VERY narrow for landscape work. You want to look for something in the 16-20mm full frame equivalent ball park or think about panoramic shots. That requires a nodal point mount for your tripod (which I hope you have because otherwise spending 2.5k on a new camera is pretty futile if you skip most of the non-camera gear stuff.

 

Animals might require a better AF, okay, but that also depends on what kind of animals you're taking pictures of and in which situations. Still, the D3400 is an okay camera.

 

WIth a budget of $2500, I'd say don't spend more than 900-1200 on a body. The rest is money for your lens(es). If you don't have a semi decent tripod: put 150-250 bucks aside for one.

 

Camera options in that price range, mirrorless only and using most of the allocated budget:

Canon RP
Fujifilm X-T3

Fujifilm X-T30

Sony a6300

Sony a6400

Sony a6500

Sony a7ii

Nikon Z50

*ignoring Canon EOS M because it just doesnt offer good lens options and ignoring MFT because of less choice on the wide end and worse ISO performance than APS-C and FF

 

P.S.: I wouldn't go for screw on filters anymore - they are expensive and you need step up rings to adapt it to different lenses which might add vignetting, a bit of dirt and they get stuck - there are several reasonably priced square filter systems with holders and reasonably priceds filters. Ignore UV filter and pick a good ND filter with something around ND1.2 or darker and maybe (!) a polarizing filter. 

 

If I were you, I'd skip the new camera body and only aim for lenses.

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1 hour ago, bowrilla said:

Well, for landscapes, you don't need much ISO or AF.  You can pretty easily go (and often want to go) to shutter speeds of up to a second and longer - smoothes out water, potentially also skies and up to a second usually works pretty well at night without getting star trails. In fact, many landscape photographers use ND filters to get longer exposure times while controlling the light. So no need for an ISO monster. Landscapephotography doesn't put your AF to the test either - nothing moving around and you usually close your aperture quite far down to get larger DoF so it's not that critical. The sensor of the D3400 is fine and has a respectable dynamic range that's mostly on par with most modern cameras. Looking at the test images available, ISO1600 looks usable with a managable amount of noise - use the noise reduction when post processing your RAW images - a little bit worse than i.e. a 5d mkii, a lot finer though. Difference ~1 stop I estimate. 

 

Your 18-55mm lens on your APS-C camera has a maximum field of view of a 27mm on full frame. That's VERY narrow for landscape work. You want to look for something in the 16-20mm full frame equivalent ball park or think about panoramic shots. That requires a nodal point mount for your tripod (which I hope you have because otherwise spending 2.5k on a new camera is pretty futile if you skip most of the non-camera gear stuff.

 

Animals might require a better AF, okay, but that also depends on what kind of animals you're taking pictures of and in which situations. Still, the D3400 is an okay camera.

 

WIth a budget of $2500, I'd say don't spend more than 900-1200 on a body. The rest is money for your lens(es). If you don't have a semi decent tripod: put 150-250 bucks aside for one.

 

Camera options in that price range, mirrorless only and using most of the allocated budget:

Canon RP
Fujifilm X-T3

Fujifilm X-T30

Sony a6300

Sony a6400

Sony a6500

Sony a7ii

Nikon Z50

*ignoring Canon EOS M because it just doesnt offer good lens options and ignoring MFT because of less choice on the wide end and worse ISO performance than APS-C and FF

m6mk2 is a great option but you need to adapt it to EF

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I agree with GDR, If you can swing it, I would go R6 and if you need to, a Canon brand EF>RF adapter.

 

My studiomate shoots with a Z6 and it's FINE, but that's about it.

No vertical grip option means when he's using lenses like his 24-70 2.8, it's awkward as F and the USB-C port is so low on the side, the cable needs to make a pretty gnarly 180 degree turn to fit into the tetherplate.

 

IQ is what you'd expect out of the 24MP Sony chip, AF seems fine most of the time, but not as good as the rest, one card slot (although an extremely fast one), is again, fine. 

 

IBIS on the Z is extremely disappointing in my experience, than again I primarily shoot with an E-M1X, which is the gold standard for IS systems.

 

The Z's in my opinion are just OK cameras. The new Z50 seems good for the price, I'll say that. 

 

The lenses for the R are objectively better, but also obviously targeted towards the pro market.

 

Last I used an EOS R, I couldn't remember if it had a pinpoint AF mode like the Z does, that was the one thing on the Z that was really fantastic.

 

The R6 and R5 basically solve my complaints on the R, I'll likely be replacing my D800E with an R5 and switching to Canon for my mirrorless future when the M1X and my Nikon SLR's aren't good enough anymore. 

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12 hours ago, Action_Johnson said:

I agree with GDR, If you can swing it, I would go R6 and if you need to, a Canon brand EF>RF adapter.

 

My studiomate shoots with a Z6 and it's FINE, but that's about it.

No vertical grip option means when he's using lenses like his 24-70 2.8, it's awkward as F and the USB-C port is so low on the side, the cable needs to make a pretty gnarly 180 degree turn to fit into the tetherplate.

 

IQ is what you'd expect out of the 24MP Sony chip, AF seems fine most of the time, but not as good as the rest, one card slot (although an extremely fast one), is again, fine. 

 

IBIS on the Z is extremely disappointing in my experience, than again I primarily shoot with an E-M1X, which is the gold standard for IS systems.

 

The Z's in my opinion are just OK cameras. The new Z50 seems good for the price, I'll say that. 

 

The lenses for the R are objectively better, but also obviously targeted towards the pro market.

 

Last I used an EOS R, I couldn't remember if it had a pinpoint AF mode like the Z does, that was the one thing on the Z that was really fantastic.

 

The R6 and R5 basically solve my complaints on the R, I'll likely be replacing my D800E with an R5 and switching to Canon for my mirrorless future when the M1X and my Nikon SLR's aren't good enough anymore. 

Will the RF to EF adapter lower image quality?

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On 7/21/2020 at 6:34 PM, YellowJersey said:


 My primary reasons for the Z5 are:
 1) Z6 is a first-generation product.
 2) Z5 has dual card slots.

 But I do enjoy the BSI sensor with no low pass filter, too. Nikon's sensors tend to have better dynamic range and lower noise compared to Canon.

 **Edit: Also, the Z5 is way more affordable compared to the R6. You can buy a Z5 and a nice lens or two for the price of an R6 body. I'd only go Z6 or R6 if you're more into video.

Is the difference in dynamic range and noise major and worth the money?

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