Linus still says those cheap graphics cards are useless.

[kenblu24]

Linus has said time and time again that those craptastic bottom-of-the-barrel new GPU cards that they have at Best Buy or Newegg for like $45 are useless and nobody should buy them. But I think there is actually one good usage case for these things:

 

Linus argues that cheap GPUs give awful performance per dollar, but what if I don't care about performance? For small businesses with work computers, if a GPU from a prebuilt dies, and the business doesn't have a service contract, just buy the cheapest new GPU you can find. It'll have a warranty, and can easily be returned. Or, if said business wants to add an extra monitor to a computer with only integrated graphics, they can do so by adding a cheap, new GPU. Used GPUs are great for gamers on a budget, but most non-creative small businesses don't need graphics horsepower. Same for ya nan on Facebook.

 

Strange that Linears doesn't consider this rather common scenario, considering he seems to be very in-tune with non-techy businesses just as he is with the gaming and performance PC communities. It's the perfect use case for these cheap cards: People who give zero cares about performance, and don't want to deal with buying used.

 

Devil's Avocados: Linux is probably worried about non-tech-savvy gamers who want performance but don't know where to look for it, and just waltz into Best Buy for an upgrade and end up buying these cheap GPUs. 

[Bombastinator]

Generally those cheap GPUs have worse performance than tha apu or iGPU.  That 3000g for example would have been 2 or 3 times faster if he had used no gpu at all but used instead the apu in the machine. 

[Fishscene]

OP makes an excellent point. Sometimes, you just need a graphics card to display something and using integrated graphics isn't an option.

 

This happens a fair amount in businesses as well as enthusiasts building home servers/computers *cough*. Sometimes, I don't want an integrated GPU for a headless server and I just need a cheap card to throw in temporarily to install the OS to get things started.

[kenblu24]

7 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Generally those cheap GPUs have worse performance than tha apu or iGPU.  That 3000g for example would have been 2 or 3 times faster if he had used no gpu at all but used instead the apu in the machine. 

Yes, but in some cases, performance simply doesn't matter. I'll bet the cheapest new discrete GPU can still do 1080p youtube. As long as it can run MS Word or whatever management software is needed, then it's enough. Then the extra GPU can be used to add an extra monitor, boosting productivity.

[Kilrah]

Yes that's their use, just a basic display adapter, and as he says in the video that's why they still sell tons of them. 

But in the context of gaming which this was about as well as pretty much anything else the channel concentrates on they're worthless.

[Boomwebsearch]

8 minutes ago, kenblu24 said:

Linus has said time and time again that those craptastic bottom-of-the-barrel new GPU cards that they have at Best Buy or Newegg for like $45 are useless and nobody should buy them. But I think there is actually one good usage case for these things:

Have you seen the follow-up video yet?:

 

9 minutes ago, kenblu24 said:

Linus argues that cheap GPUs give awful performance per dollar, but what if I don't care about performance? For small businesses with work computers, if a GPU from a prebuilt dies, and the business doesn't have a service contract, just buy the cheapest new GPU you can find. It'll have a warranty, and can easily be returned. Or, if said business wants to add an extra monitor to a computer with only integrated graphics, they can do so by adding a cheap, new GPU. Used GPUs are great for gamers on a budget, but most non-creative small businesses don't need graphics horsepower. Same for ya nan on Facebook.

Then why not use the integrated GPU that can usually outperform these low-end GPUs such as the GT710, if all you want is more monitors connected then why not get something like a GT 210 or an older GPU such as a Radeon HD 3450 that can be had for $5 with free shipping? Also, the warranty is useless in most cases since most likely the component is going to fail after that time-frame.

 

14 minutes ago, kenblu24 said:

Strange that Linears doesn't consider this rather common scenario, considering he seems to be very in-tune with non-techy businesses just as he is with the gaming and performance PC communities. It's the perfect use case for these cheap cards: People who give zero cares about performance, and don't want to deal with buying used.

 

Devil's Avocados: Linux is probably worried about non-tech-savvy gamers who want performance but don't know where to look for it, and just waltz into Best Buy for an upgrade and end up buying these cheap GPUs. 

If you don't care about performance and just want some video outputs, get something like a GT 210 or Radeon HD 3450 used/refurbished for under $10?

 

Overall cards like a GT 710 aren't really worth it, terrible price to performance, and not even the cheapest you can buy if you don't care about performance.

 

Only reason to get something like a GT 710 is if you're working with an old PC that has terrible integrated graphics and low PSU wattage plus limited upgrade options (ex. proprietary connectors, SFF case, etc) and all you want is to make the best of it even if that means paying more for the performance (need great performance per watt with limited PSU wattage).

[Beerzerker]

Having one can also be used for troubleshooting problems with GPU related things as well.

Need an extra card to use for checking to see if a problem is with the GPU or just something else in general, such as no display output from the card?

 

One of these can help point you in the right direction to arrive at a solution.
Also useful for the reasons stated above, to run a cheap, no frills office machine or basic web browsing setup.

[Inkz]

I think he has gone on record saying that they make sense if you just need a port but for anything else they don't really and that's true. 

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Having one can also be used for troubleshooting problems with GPU related things as well.

Need an extra card to use for checking to see if a problem is with the GPU or just something else in general, such as no display output from the card?

 

One of these can help point you in the right direction to arrive at a solution.
Also useful for the reasons stated above, to run a cheap, no frills office machine or basic web browsing setup.

So then get a used $5 card.  $40 is still 400% too expensive.

[Bombastinator]

14 minutes ago, kenblu24 said:

Yes, but in some cases, performance simply doesn't matter. I'll bet the cheapest new discrete GPU can still do 1080p youtube. As long as it can run MS Word or whatever management software is needed, then it's enough. Then the extra GPU can be used to add an extra monitor, boosting productivity.

Most apus can already handle multiple monitors.  The second and occasionally third monitor is already covered.  A 3rd or 4th monitor?  It will have problems integrating with the desktop.  So why spend $40 when you could have spent $0?

[Fishscene]

As a business, I'd rather spend $40 for an new-in-the-box-with-warranty-no-questionable-background GPU over a $5 GPU anyday.

[Bombastinator]

2 minutes ago, Fishscene said:

As a business, I'd rather spend $40 for an new-in-the-box-with-warranty-no-questionable-background GPU over a $5 GPU anyday.

For troubleshooting?

[Fishscene]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

For troubleshooting?

For business. If I have a PC without integrated graphics and just need to display spreadsheets or something, it makes business sense to spring for a dependable graphics card that, if it turns out to not be dependable, is under warranty. A used $5 GPU with a questionable background isn't worth the gamble.

 

I'm paying someone to support the GPU, whether that's myself, or staff. The less time it takes to get the computer up and running, the more money I have to spend for niceties - like staff bonus's or coffee.

[Vishera]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

For troubleshooting?

For business PC builds,the workloads they are used for are extremely light so anything will do the job at this point.

I even saw business PCs that run MS-DOS...

[Bombastinator]

4 minutes ago, Fishscene said:

For business. If I have a PC without integrated graphics and just need to display spreadsheets or something, it makes business sense to spring for a dependable graphics card that, if it turns out to not be dependable, is under warranty. A used $5 GPU with a questionable background isn't worth the gamble.

 

I'm paying someone to support the GPU, whether that's myself, or staff. The less time it takes to get the computer up and running, the more money I have to spend for niceties - like staff bonus's or coffee.

Sure but the guy you quoted was talking about troubleshooting.  So business troubleshooting?  There basically aren’t any low end CPUs sold that don’t have integrated graphics.  1200 used to, next up that is current is 3100.  Not so low end.  There are zero low end intel CPUs with no iGPU.  A couple gaming specific high end one but not many.  So something high end and AMD is the only option.  

[kenblu24]

25 minutes ago, Boomwebsearch said:

Have you seen the follow-up video yet?:

 

Then why not use the integrated GPU that can usually outperform these low-end GPUs such as the GT710, if all you want is more monitors connected then why not get something like a GT 210 or an older GPU such as a Radeon HD 3450 that can be had for $5 with free shipping? Also, the warranty is useless in most cases since most likely the component is going to fail after that time-frame.

 

If you don't care about performance and just want some video outputs, get something like a GT 210 or Radeon HD 3450 used/refurbished for under $10?

 

Overall cards like a GT 710 aren't really worth it, terrible price to performance, and not even the cheapest you can buy if you don't care about performance.

 

 

You say that, but the first in stock result for "gt 210" on Amazon is a GT 710. And the (new) GT 210 below it isn't much cheaper. 

 

 

I could not find a new, in box gpu for less than $39 on Amazon, Ebay, Best Buy, or Newegg, except for this pitiable thing. And it's not even a graphics card! I also found this for $23.

 

 

Also, used cards are great, but some people simply don't buy used ever, and that's understandable, especially for a business owner or small town IT guy. And those $5 used graphics cards? They're not always available. The used market can be hit or miss, as Scrapyard Wars shows. I got a 550 Ti for $20 once, but that was within a pile of 9800s that people were asking $30 for. I have never seen the mystical $5 GPU on Craigslist, despite living near D.C. I'd show you an example, but the local craigslist has literally one GPU on it, and it's a 980 FTW for $100. 

 

And even if you manage to find one good deal, businesses sometimes have more than one computer, usually all of the same model. I had four computers in a treatment bay which had dual ultrawide monitors, and the integrated graphics was either nonexistant, or could only do 1920x1080. Good luck getting four of those deals on the used market. Admittedly that's a less common scenario, but still.

 

Also, I did watch that video, but holy crap it's been so long that I forgot they made a follow-up.

 

[Beerzerker]

24 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

So then get a used $5 card.  $40 is still 400% too expensive.

Wasn't referring to price but hey - It's a valid point I have to agree with.
However another fair point would be if spending $40 to potentially diagnose and fix a problem involving a $1400 card then (To me) it's worth it anyway - Depends on the individual if it's worth it or not TBH.

[Boomwebsearch]

9 minutes ago, kenblu24 said:

 

 

You say that, but the first in stock result for "gt 210" on Amazon is a GT 710. And the (new) GT 210 below it isn't much cheaper. 

 

 

I could not find a new, in box gpu for less than $39 on Amazon, Ebay, Best Buy, or Newegg, except for this pitiable thing. And it's not even a graphics card! I also found this for $23.

 

 

Also, used cards are great, but some people simply don't buy used ever, and that's understandable, especially for a business owner or small town IT guy. And those $5 used graphics cards? They're not always available. The used market can be hit or miss, as Scrapyard Wars shows. I got a 550 Ti for $20 once, but that was within a pile of 9800s that people were asking $30 for. I have never seen the mystical $5 GPU on Craigslist, despite living near D.C. I'd show you an example, but the local craigslist has literally one GPU on it, and it's a 980 FTW for $100. 

 

And even if you manage to find one good deal, businesses sometimes have more than one computer, usually all of the same model. I had four computers in a treatment bay which had dual ultrawide monitors, and the integrated graphics was either nonexistant, or could only do 1920x1080. Good luck getting four of those deals on the used market. Admittedly that's a less common scenario, but still.

 

Also, I did watch that video, but holy crap it's been so long that I forgot they made a follow-up.

 

Yeah, it's been a long time since Linus posted the original rant about low-end GPUs and the follow-up, especially considering how cheap you can get a GPU such as a Radeon HD 3450, even if it did fail, you could swap it out for another $5 and still pay a lot less than a new one would have cost. If you are a business/IT person and don't think that it is worth the time to look for cards on the used/refurbished market, then that's your choice, although for most people taking a few minutes on eBay or Craigslist or Letgo is likely worth your time, sometimes you can find many cards being put up for sale and can make an offer for getting each of the at a lower cost if you take all of them.

 

For example, take a look at something budget used/refurbished cards such as these:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-ATI-Radeon-HD-3450-256MB-PCIe-x16-DMS-59-S-Video-Graphics-Card-X399D-X398D/401105487397?epid=77461584&hash=item5d63c00625:g:nN8AAOSwmbReKbUg

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-ATI-Radeon-HD-3450-B629-256MB-PCIE-Low-Profile/332721614756?hash=item4d77c0efa4:g:djsAAOSwaENbS5NG

[Boomwebsearch]

13 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Wasn't referring to price but hey - It's a valid point I have to agree with.
However another fair point would be if spending $40 to potentially diagnose and fix a problem involving a $1400 card then (To me) it's worth it anyway - Depends on the individual if it's worth it or not TBH.

 

You could always return the new card after you have diagnosed the problem (depending on return policy and if you have not exceeded the time-frame and other conditions), LOL .

 

Although for a business to use a few of these cards to troubleshoot may not be a bad idea, far less likely to be a point of issue than an older/refurbished/used card.

[kenblu24]

11 minutes ago, Boomwebsearch said:

For example, take a look at something budget used/refurbished cards such as these:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-ATI-Radeon-HD-3450-256MB-PCIe-x16-DMS-59-S-Video-Graphics-Card-X399D-X398D/401105487397?epid=77461584&hash=item5d63c00625:g:nN8AAOSwmbReKbUg

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-ATI-Radeon-HD-3450-B629-256MB-PCIE-Low-Profile/332721614756?hash=item4d77c0efa4:g:djsAAOSwaENbS5NG

Some people are simply scared of buying used. I've tried to convince my dad to do so with no luck.

 

Both of those cards have S-video. Yeesh. I suppose I could buy two of those if I needed dual monitors and didn't have integrated graphics and it'd only be like $10 total, but that kinda seems jank. 

 

I know I said most office workloads can use the cheapest GPU available, but 256MB of graphics memory seems exceedingly low these days. Is that even enough for 1080p youtube?

[Bombastinator]

21 minutes ago, Boomwebsearch said:

 

Yeah, it's been a long time since Linus posted the original rant about low-end GPUs and the follow-up, especially considering how cheap you can get a GPU such as a Radeon HD 3450, even if it did fail, you could swap it out for another $5 and still pay a lot less than a new one would have cost. If you are a business/IT person and don't think that it is worth the time to look for cards on the used/refurbished market, then that's your choice, although for most people taking a few minutes on eBay or Craigslist or Letgo is likely worth your time, sometimes you can find many cards being put up for sale and can make an offer for getting each of the at a lower cost if you take all of them.

 

For example, take a look at something budget used/refurbished cards such as these:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-ATI-Radeon-HD-3450-256MB-PCIe-x16-DMS-59-S-Video-Graphics-Card-X399D-X398D/401105487397?epid=77461584&hash=item5d63c00625:g:nN8AAOSwmbReKbUg

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-ATI-Radeon-HD-3450-B629-256MB-PCIE-Low-Profile/332721614756?hash=item4d77c0efa4:g:djsAAOSwaENbS5NG

Those $30 9800s would still have saved $10

[kenblu24]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

Those $30 9800s would still have saved $10

Still a used card. $10 extra per card for a new card is worth it for a business. Reduced risk of downtime, warranty and official support, easy return, and the ability to buy more than one for that price. Unless you're a desperate small business, you're not gonna buy three cards from three different people; that's a waste of time and time is money. 

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, kenblu24 said:

Still a used card. $10 extra per card for a new card is worth it for a business. Reduced risk of downtime, warranty and official support, easy return, and the ability to buy more than one for that price. Unless you're a desperate small business, you're not gonna buy three cards from three different people; that's a waste of time and time is money. 

So they’re arguably useful if there is a very old pc that doesn’t already have graphics (+12 years) that is not being fully upgraded, since a full upgrade of a lightweight system to anything modern would automatically have an iGPU/apu.  Why are they selling a ton of em though?

[Boomwebsearch]

12 minutes ago, kenblu24 said:

Still a used card. $10 extra per card for a new card is worth it for a business. Reduced risk of downtime, warranty and official support, easy return, and the ability to buy more than one for that price. Unless you're a desperate small business, you're not gonna buy three cards from three different people; that's a waste of time and time is money. 

A $5 HD 3450 costs 8 times less, a savings of $35 is likely worth it for most people and businesses, small businesses that may only have a few systems could buy from different sellers and online buying with shipping saves most of the additional time + hassle of having to meet someone somewhere to buy a card.

[kenblu24]

1 minute ago, Boomwebsearch said:

A $5 HD 3450 costs 8 times less, a savings of $35 is likely worth it for most people and businesses, small businesses that may only have a few systems could buy from different sellers and online buying with shipping saves time + hassle.

Businesses think differently. The possibility of wasting time returning items or waiting for a new item to ship or even just the long shipping times that often accompany cheap ebay items is not gonna fly with a business. Unless the company has a dedicated IT guy, they're also not gonna want to waste time installing possibly dead or near death GPUs. 

 

When one of Linus's weird AliExpress purchases ends up not working as intended, he can still make a video about it. When a normal business gets a dud, they have to deal with returning the item somehow, seeking the refund, and they're losing productivity. Most businesses would be happy to spend the $40 per card if it means they can just chuck it in a system and go, and official system support is probably better for a 710 than for an ancient 3450, which, in my case, probably can't even run the darn management software on two screens.