Senate vote allows FBI access to your browsing history without a warrant

[Guest]

Google keep your search history anyway, why not the government?

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, NZgamer said:

Yeah, that sounds about right. I get that they have good intentions like stopping terrorism but innocent people are having their privacy invaded and I'm starting to get worried about this.

So this is specific to a particular nation.

[GDRRiley]

9 hours ago, Sauron said:

I disagree, it was always supposed to be a way for the US government to do whatever the heck it wants using 9/11 as an excuse.

I was purely talking about the original authors goal, not my view on it

[Sauron]

12 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

I was purely talking about the original authors goal, not my view on it

Well yeah, that's what I was contesting. I don't believe for a second this wasn't the original goal.

[GDRRiley]

4 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Well yeah, that's what I was contesting. I don't believe for a second this wasn't the original goal.

the original author for much of it says much of what is happening under it wasn't his goal or the law doesn't allow.

Do I believe him no and I question why it still gets renewed with so little thought.

[Brooksie359]

On 5/14/2020 at 9:57 AM, SpaceGhostC2C said:

'Murica be like:

- 3,000 deaths 20 years ago: it's so frightening! Take all my rights!

- 85,000 deaths today, and counting: it's just the flu! Liberate Michigan!

You realize that the normal flu kills like 60,000 people every year right? And besides opening things up isn't going to make a huge difference as long as people take the necessary steps to help mitigate things.

[Bombastinator]

5 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

You realize that the normal flu kills like 60,000 people every year right? And besides opening things up isn't going to make a huge difference as long as people take the necessary steps to help mitigate things.

Heh.  So almost as many americans die every year of the flu as died in the entire Vietnam war huh?   How long did the Vietnam war last? 8 years?  When did americans start dying of covid? March?   And no one brought this up.   I’m thinking maybe your figures are massaged. The people who are being loudest about this aren’t the small business owners and minor professionals losing their livelihoods, they’re the political operators and big business owners hiding on yachts in the Caribbean.  Lives for money.  Specifically my life for your money.

[Trik'Stari]

The best solution, as I see it, is for everyone to install a bot that will randomly browse any and all content that can trip whatever parameters they set to set off a red flag.

 

Inundate them in false positives. If they won't listen to reason, we have no other option beyond invalidating and breaking whatever they set up.

 

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

The people who are being loudest about this aren’t the small business owners and minor professionals losing their livelihoods, they’re the political operators and big business owners hiding on yachts in the Caribbean.  Lives for money.  Specifically my life for your money.

You not seeing it != it not happening. The media is largely not covering protests, or completely misrepresenting them as in the case of Michigan. Stop watching major network news, as it's the most invalid source of information you can get beyond Twitter.

 

Not to mention that those major businesses have just as much of a right to be unhappy with a downturn in business as the little businesses. Your bias against them does not invalidate their legitimate problems with the lockdowns. I've been working and traveling the entire time this "crisis" has been ongoing, whilst ignoring social distancing (As have most of the people I've encountered) and taking no extra precautions other than the normal handwashing I would have otherwise done. I haven't gotten sick.

 

You being afraid, does not grant you the right to disrupt my life or the lives of others.

[Nowak]

This was decided by a single vote. You wanna know who didn't show up to vote?

Bernie Sanders (I-VT).

[Bombastinator]

31 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

The best solution, as I see it, is for everyone to install a bot that will randomly browse any and all content that can trip whatever parameters they set to set off a red flag.

 

Inundate them in false positives. If they won't listen to reason, we have no other option beyond invalidating and breaking whatever they set up.

 

You not seeing it != it not happening. The media is largely not covering protests, or completely misrepresenting them as in the case of Michigan. Stop watching major network news, as it's the most invalid source of information you can get beyond Twitter.

 

Not to mention that those major businesses have just as much of a right to be unhappy with a downturn in business as the little businesses. Your bias against them does not invalidate their legitimate problems with the lockdowns. I've been working and traveling the entire time this "crisis" has been ongoing, whilst ignoring social distancing (As have most of the people I've encountered) and taking no extra precautions other than the normal handwashing I would have otherwise done. I haven't gotten sick.

 

You being afraid, does not grant you the right to disrupt my life or the lives of others.

I wouldn’t say it’s the most invalid.  Not as valid as it should be sure, but there is much much worse out there.  Full on propaganda stuff.  Like  o.a.n.   It’s not a question of what is pure.  It’s about what is the least impure.

 

As for the protests one of them actually happened in my town less than a quarter mile away from me.  I didn’t just see the national news on it.  I talked to people who were there, I saw multiple accounts.  Sure msnbc downplayed it a bit.  But much less than other groups up played it.  It wasn’t totally devoid of people who were worried about their jobs.  It was easily majority business owners and political activists though.  They also didn’t actually talk much about lockdown stuff.  It was mostly a straight up political rally.  “Freedom” “rights”.  Gun ownership got talked about a lot. Wtf does gun ownership have to do with covid?  It was BS.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Bombastinator

[Trik'Stari]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

I wouldn’t say it’s the most invalid.  Not as valid as it should be sure, but there is much much worse out there.  Full on propaganda stuff.  Like  o.a.n.   It’s not a question of what is pure.  It’s about what is the least impure.

At the risk of getting off topic, CNN, MSNBC, and FOX are all basically propaganda.

 

I've reached the point that I don't trust any news source that doesn't cite sources ("anonymous sources" should automatically not be trusted) and don't issue corrections or retractions.

 

Bias I can handle, but the dishonesty the legacy media showcase is utterly staggering.

[Nowak]

Just now, Trik'Stari said:

At the risk of getting off topic, CNN, MSNBC, and FOX are all basically propaganda.

 

I've reached the point that I don't trust any news source that doesn't cite sources ("anonymous sources" should automatically not be trusted) and don't issue corrections or retractions.

 

Bias I can handle, but the dishonesty the legacy media showcase is utterly staggering.

Also at the risk of going off topic, you're right. Don't trust corporate news networks.

[Trik'Stari]

4 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

 

I tend to avoid the News in Murika because it's all biased bs.  On top of that they all sound as cringy as Ben Shapiro.  I tend to stick to certain satirical news outlets here as they at least cite sources.

I tend to avoid satirical news outlets, especially those in the US as they have a VERY heavy left wing slant, and are dishonest as hell.

 

Shapiro is actually one of the ones I watch, but with a massive grain of salt. He's not as forthright as I would like, but he's not as blatantly dishonest as the major news networks or the left wing "alt media" sources like TYT. I don't mind bias if someone is upfront about it, he clearly is.

 

The one I trust the most is Styxenhammer666 on Youtube. He's fairly accurate from what I've seen, quirky, has no corporate ties at all, cites his source in a way that doesn't give advertising revenue to those sources (if you must share news links, archive them and then share them to circumvent ad revenue), he's not blatantly biased towards or against the left or right.

 

There is no perfect news source. Best bet is to check as many sources as you can, and see what the general consensus is, then measure that against what you can verify.

[Bombastinator]

10 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

At the risk of getting off topic, CNN, MSNBC, and FOX are all basically propaganda.

 

I've reached the point that I don't trust any news source that doesn't cite sources ("anonymous sources" should automatically not be trusted) and don't issue corrections or retractions.

 

Bias I can handle, but the dishonesty the legacy media showcase is utterly staggering.

None of those are legacy media.  Fox is new. MSNBC is new, CNN is new.  

[Trik'Stari]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

None of those are legacy media.  Fox is new. MSNBC is new, CNN is new.  

Legacy media = Television broadcast. At least in the way I think of it.

 

What would you define as old? New York Times? I'd think of them more as "Antique" than "legacy".

[foldingNoob]

10 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

So this is specific to a particular nation.

It's specific to 5 eyes = USA UK AUS NZ CAN, basically the anglosphere, but you can bet other governments are doing more dystopian acts.

[foldingNoob]

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

None of those are legacy media.  Fox is new. MSNBC is new, CNN is new.  

legacy media was defined by some dude (can't remember off the top of my head) around 20 years ago to categorically separate corporate media from new non-corporate internet-based media. I wish i could remember who it was so i could quote them directly.

[Brooksie359]

5 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Heh.  So almost as many americans die every year of the flu as died in the entire Vietnam war huh?   How long did the Vietnam war last? 8 years?  When did americans start dying of covid? March?   And no one brought this up.   I’m thinking maybe your figures are massaged. The people who are being loudest about this aren’t the small business owners and minor professionals losing their livelihoods, they’re the political operators and big business owners hiding on yachts in the Caribbean.  Lives for money.  Specifically my life for your money.

Honestly this doesn't effect me as much right now as I still have a job and I already had the virus so I am immune at this point but that does not mean I don't know people who are. Unfortunately there are alot of people out their who are really struggling out their because they lost their job as a result of the shutdown and likely won't have one when the shutdown is lifted because where they work will be out of business. Also unfortunately those big business employ alot of people and if they do bad because of the lockdown that that hurts not only their employees but also the companies that do business with them. And the flu number is not some new thing and unfortunately old people die of the flu all the time especially in assisted living communities. I worked at one after college for about 6 months while trying to find a job in my field and unfortunately I would see alot of people get the flu and that was the last I saw of them. They would get the flu and then pneumonia and then their organs would fail. If you look at the statistics then you would realize the vast majority of people dying from this are 80 years old or above and having a lockdown is not going to properly protect these people. Again if it's not like doing a lockdown is all of a sudden going to stop people from dying from this virus but it is destroying the economy. We constantly live with risks in order to have the freedoms we have. We do not stop driving cars because people die in large quantities and we don't stop going outside because the normal flu. And again it is not like we aren't taking more percussions than we are with the normal flu because we definitely are with face masks and social distancing and the such so people need to stop talking like not shutting things down is not taking it seriously. 

[Bombastinator]

3 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Legacy media = Television broadcast. At least in the way I think of it.

 

What would you define as old? New York Times? I'd think of them more as "Antique" than "legacy".

You picked all stuff that happened late though for whatever reason.  Fox is younger than cnn but not by a lot.  MSNBC is much younger than both.  
 

The question I’m interested in keeps on not getting answered though:  is this even a thing? “Voted on” means literally nothing.  “Voted on sometimes happens when it’s the fastest way to kill a stupid idea.  There’s “voted on and passed” but also “voted on and rejected”. If it’s “voted on AMD rejecttd” this whole thread is stupid and a misdirect.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

Honestly this doesn't effect me as much right now as I still have a job and I already had the virus so I am immune at this point but that does not mean I don't know people who are. Unfortunately there are alot of people out their who are really struggling out their because they lost their job as a result of the shutdown and likely won't have one when the shutdown is lifted because where they work will be out of business. Also unfortunately those big business employ alot of people and if they do bad because of the lockdown that that hurts not only their employees but also the companies that do business with them. And the flu number is not some new thing and unfortunately old people die of the flu all the time especially in assisted living communities. I worked at one after college for about 6 months while trying to find a job in my field and unfortunately I would see alot of people get the flu and that was the last I saw of them. They would get the flu and then pneumonia and then their organs would fail. If you look at the statistics then you would realize the vast majority of people dying from this are 80 years old or above and having a lockdown is not going to properly protect these people. Again if it's not like doing a lockdown is all of a sudden going to stop people from dying from this virus but it is destroying the economy. We constantly live with risks in order to have the freedoms we have. We do not stop driving cars because people die in large quantities and we don't stop going outside because the normal flu. And again it is not like we aren't taking more percussions than we are with the normal flu because we definitely are with face masks and social distancing and the such so people need to stop talking like not shutting things down is not taking it seriously. 

All of which is known and has nothing to do with my point.  A lot of rich people are hiding behind the misfortune of poor people.

 

Also your data is out of date and is cherry picked.  I got into this thread to ask if this “voted on” thing was a law or misdirection BS.  That question seems to be getting repetitively avoided so I’m betting the answer is “BS” 

[SansVarnic]

Whoa whoa whoa ... everyone step back for a moment.

This has not been enacted into law ...

1. Does anyone know what the FISA Court is? The only way the FBI can do this is to file or petition the FISA Court do this, (even under the Patriot ACT) and only can they do it on grounds pursuant to a criminal case based on evidence that must be presented by the FBI. Also the petition can only be requested for one individual at a time, they cannot petition for multiple peoples at once, each individual must have a separate petition filed with the included evidence.
2. Just because the Senate has voted on this, the way the OP's source does not state if the vote was a committee vote or a floor vote, this is a very substantial difference. Also, IF, if this was a floor vote the bill must go through the House and then on to the Presidents Desk to be signed before it becomes Law.
3. @Clueless_Gamer do you happen to know what bill this was that passed? I can look it up myself but you need to make available some pretty damning evidence that will be happening before making such a claim. This source you used is not what I would call a strong legislative resource …
4. If any of this shows to be true, VPN usage will be going up, not that it already is.

I will do some independent research on this a get back to this topic.

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

Whoa whoa whoa ... everyone step back for a moment.

This has not been enacted into law ...

1. Does anyone know what the FISA Court is? The only way the FBI can do this is to file or petition the FISA Court do this, (even under the Patriot ACT) and only can they do it on grounds pursuant to a criminal case based on evidence that must be presented by the FBI. Also the petition can only be requested for one individual at a time, they cannot petition for multiple peoples at once, each individual must have a separate petition filed with the included evidence.
2. Just because the Senate has voted on this, the way the OP's source does not state if the vote was a committee vote or a floor vote, this is a very substantial difference. Also, IF, if this was a floor vote the bill must go through the House and then on to the Presidents Desk to be signed before it becomes Law.
3. @Clueless_Gamer do you happen to know what bill this was that passed? I can look it up myself but you need to make available some pretty damning evidence that will be happening before making such a claim. This source you used is not what I would call a strong legislative resource …
4. If any of this shows to be true, VPN usage will be going up, not that it already is.

I will do some independent research on this a get back to this topic.

Ah.  So it always was misdirection BS.  I asked that 3 times and got ignored.  

[SansVarnic]

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Ah.  So it always was misdirection BS.  I asked that 3 times and got ignored.  

I'm searching the legislative records right now but so far after 10 minutes I have no found anything, but then again you have to use the correct wordage so it might take some time to find this.

[GDRRiley]

30 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

Does anyone know what the FISA Court is? The only way the FBI can do this is to file or petition the FISA Court do this, (even under the Patriot ACT) and only can they do it on grounds pursuant to a criminal case based on evidence that must be presented by the FBI. Also the petition can only be requested for one individual at a time, they cannot petition for multiple peoples at once, each individual must have a separate petition filed with the included evidence

the FISA court is a secret court that has allowed 99.99% of all cases brought to them.

I'm trying to find the john oliver episode that talks about it

[SansVarnic]

Ok, I found the Senate Bill. God Damn People do your own research, esp the OP, this is why we ask that you put some effort into your news topics, if your gonna post it, make sure to be due diligent on the subject you chose post on.

 

Bill: H.R.6172 — 116th Congress (2019-2020)

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6172?q={"search"%3A["hr+6172"]}&s=9&r=1

Quote

Introduced in House (03/10/2020)
USA FREEDOM Reauthorization Act of 2020

 

This bill reauthorizes through December 1, 2023, provisions related to intelligence gathering under the Foreign Intelligence and Surveillance Act (FISA) and amends FISA-related provisions.

 

The Federal Bureau of Investigation may not seek certain FISA-authorized orders to obtain (1) call detail records on an ongoing basis, (2) a tangible thing where a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and a warrant would typically be required, or (3) cellular or GPS location information.

 

In applications for certain FISA-authorized orders to obtain information or conduct surveillance, the applicant must certify that the Department of Justice (DOJ) has received any information that might raise doubts about the application. The bill imposes additional requirements on FISA-authorized orders targeting a (1) U.S. person, or (2) federal elected official or candidate.

 

The bill increases criminal penalties for violations related to electronic surveillance conducted under color of law or false statements made to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA court).

 

The bill broadens the criteria for when a FISA court decision shall be declassified and requires the declassification review and release of such opinions within 180 days of an opinion being issued.

 

The bill broadens the FISA court's authority to appoint an amicus curiae (an outside party that assists in consideration of a case) and expands such amici's powers, such as the power to ask the court to review a decision.

 

Each agency that submits applications to the FISA court shall appoint an officer responsible for compliance with FISA requirements.

As stated above this bill will authorize and may allow the FBI to seek records without consent of the FISA Court as long as the reason falls under certain conditions such as

1. "call detail records on an ongoing basis,
2. a tangible thing where a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and a warrant would typically be required, or
3. cellular or GPS location information."

This bill does NOT give the FBI unlimited ability to look into records at whim. I have highlighted in blue the area in question. Read it yourself. It gives the FBI the ability to skip the FISA Court on warrants for already ongoing investigations, basically lets them continue doing what they are doing without updated warrants. What this means in layman terms ...

If the FBI is investigating you and already has a FISA warrant and then something changes about the investigation the FBI no longer needs under certain limitations as defined allows them to skip re-submitting a new FISA petition for warrant because there is a change in the investigation as they would normally do as it currently stands they have to re-submit for a new warrant when certain variables change.

 

This bill passed the House first (3/11/2020  278 Yay - 136 Nay) so this is the Senates take on this bill. The next step is to go to the presidents desk for signing.

 

My disclaimer: I do not agree with or do I defend this action but I understand why they did it. The whole of the afore-conversation in this thread and jumping to conclusions is to much.

 

**Edit to add [apologies for not including this];

If you will also note that at the end of the bill (I highlighted in orange): 

"The bill broadens the FISA court's authority to appoint an amicus curiae (an outside party that assists in consideration of a case) and expands such amici's powers, such as the power to ask the court to review a decision."

The bills also grants broader and more inclusive requests for the court to withhold a decision until more review of warrant petition can be made, which means that a FISA warrant cant be issued or updated unless all parties involved are in agreement the petition is valid including a third party if requested to be involved.

So they may be in some ways lessening the restrictions they are also placing more oversight on the decision to issue such warrants.

 

But hey lets be real its politics and what politician is going to follow this wholly hmm?

 

47 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

the FISA court is a secret court that has allowed 99.99% of all cases brought to them.

I'm trying to find the john oliver episode that talks about it

I've heard of it. Nothing grossly substantial but I would not be surprised that it happens... refer to the General Flynn case and his FISA warrant being released (btw that is grossly illegal to do and someone will be scapegoated for it) ... but that is a mass can of worms I wont touch here.  

I'm not a fan of John Oliver, he gets it correct on some [seldom] things but he is so biased it is hard to watch him, so I stopped a long time ago. I cant trust what he says. I watched a video he made on Homeschooling, though he got about 80% of his info correct he made some strong remarks I don't agree (btw I was home-schooled 7th-12th so I have first hand experience and knowledge on the subject) with and some other videos he made that he shows his consistency to bias that it has turned me away from watching him.

Edited May 16, 2020 by SansVarnic