Computer hardware need and upgrade and new standards

[pani_alex]

I will create this topic to tell ideas for what i think will be a better way. Feel free to critique, that will bring better evolve.

Hi, i thought for a while that computer hardware need and upgrade, new standards. And its not just because its old, its also because its poor efficient.

If some one know the history from the Bauhause from Germany, they have the idea that some things have to have a standard for make it better, i don't read the whole story but it see that there were people that already think the same direction. I think it will be better for all if there is a place where you can find a guide to build anything, and if someone thought he have a better idea, that idea have to be evaluated and if better, update the guide. So will be every time the world better.

 

Let's start with the graphic card

The place where it is, it's the worst. It's a heater with nowhere to suck fresh air or push it out. What if it is at the top of the motherboard? That will allow the gpu to suck fresh air from the top outside of the case. The motherboard need also a update, all the chips that generate heat need to be connected with heatpipes and a predesigned place mass to be a surface where you can attach a cooling device of your choice (passive, cooler, water), and i think that place mass be between the cpu and the rear io

but i think the GPU have the wrong design, i mean, the better cooler (i think) its the heatpipe in tower design and there have to be a air flow, it have to be ever a constant flow from air, never recirculation, never.

What about the PSU, the way it is right now it's ok, it will suck hot air from inside the pc  and push it out to ensure some air flow. But very small and compact pc shou us it can be anywhere, because you only need a short cable to allow connection with the outside, and i think it don't have to lose the function from an extractor, that is a very important function.

I also think all the components mass to serve more than one function if possible, that is efficient.

So i propose a design that will have the cpu cooler, the gpu cooler, and the psu as extractor, that will be a ton of air flow. But now only air flow, it muss have special separators and ducts that will allow to go throw the entire pc before it goes out, so everything is cooled more efficient

 

And like servers coolers could be not at the device, sonde at the case. They also could be with a standard plug and play power connector (also like servers). In this design all the cables could also be short.

So it is only a thing of talk with each other and set new better and intelligent standards. Where sill be the cpu socket, so it can be a standardisation from cpu cooler to ensure no reflow from air. The cooling for the motherboard components, a better place no only for the gpu, but for the ram, power, sata, mPCIe and any other connector. In the design i thought, all the hdd/ssd could be under the psu, and they can also have a little board so it will be very easy to install, just push.

 

what inspire me all this is the gpu, it is always to hot and loud. It needs definitiv a new cooling design. Some doesn't have any ram a vrms cooling, for me it will be as simple as a peace of cooler with a heatpipe, and just like i suggest for the motherboard, with a top surface where you can attach the cooling device you prefer. And because the better cooling its a tower (i think), not only because heatpipe it's better that a piece of aluminium, but because it will allow on one side take new air, and throw it away on the other, that will allow you (if you want) to ensure fresh air for your device.

The design from how the heatpipe tower cooler needs a standard to. I'm not an engineer, but because internet let the people access to some much infos, i learned there is a optimal why to put those heatpipe so that they will irradiate the most of the heat they take.

Im not saying it has to be this way, i just say there is better and a worse way. This is just and example of what i think

And talking about ram and mPCIe, what if those are in the other side of the motherboard, so you have to take out just one side the pc to have direct access to this, and nothing else in the way, and also have some holes so that the intake air passively cooled the components.

Standard will allow more efficient. But they need to pay attention to many things, efficient, cooling (very important), build, repair.

That brings me on something, way have no tower cooler maker thow on make a long tale from the holder, that comes up to te top so it allows you to clip it to the holder tooles, i mean, if its a tile that have les say just 2 positions (open and close) so you push, pull or turn it to put in or out the cooler and dont have to fight ever with your shorter fingers or screwdriver risking to damage something, its that so hard to make? just a long piece of plastic or metal? it cant be so expensive, not for design, not to make.

 

If my english its not clear, there are some pics. Thatks for the atention

[homeap5]

10 minutes ago, pani_alex said:

The motherboard need also a update, all the chips that generate heat need to be connected with heatpipes and a predesigned place mass to be a surface where you can attach a cooling device of your choice (passive, cooler, water)

This is a momet when I stop read. Producers made that small passive coolers, because it's ENOUGH. You don't need to create tornado inside. I understand that these days coolers and fans are more and more popular, but can you tell me why? Just because it CAN be mounted doesn't mean it suppose to be.

 

You can look at LTT videos where Linus experiments with some extreme cooling solutions - like this one or this one. But it was just for fun, for made some tests and nobody should take it serious.

 

Sure, you can attach as many heatsinks and fans as you want, adds some copper pipes to every element, but what for? It's not an upgrade when the same motherboard needs better cooling than 10 years ago.

[TwilightRavens]

My only criticism is the PSU idea, PSU’s are usually sectioned off in most halfway decent cases and are totally independent from the rest of the PC, so they won’t affect thermals in any meaningful way. They suck in cool air from the bottom of the case and spit it out before it has time to rise and sink into other components.

 

Edit: You can look up comparisons between bottom and top mounted PSU’s and you can see temps vary within a degree of each other.

[pani_alex]

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Producers made that small passive coolers, because it's ENOUGH. You don't need to create tornado inside

not in all cases, not with some new hardware, not with pcie gen4, not with new intel cpu

 

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You can look at LTT videos where Linus experiments with some extreme cooling solutions - like this one or this one. But it was just for fun, for made some tests and nobody should take it serious.

new cpus have something like a auto overclock that will higher if they cooler are, so not only cpu will to take advantage of thise, also gpus. some stock cooler make then thermal throttle, and there are countries where it's really hot. And more important, i love like many people a silent pc and not a jet engine

[Eigenvektor]

Components on the motherboard typically don't need active cooling. A small heat sink and some airflow from the case's coolers is enough. Why add heatpipes (=more expensive) when you don't need them?

 

Moving stuff around and using a tower cooler on your GPU would be a nightmare in terms of backwards compatibility, since you'd have to redesign everything. The benefits of that redesign are questionable. Unless you get better performance or cheaper production, what's the point?

 

Last but not least, you can't just move stuff on your motherboard around any way you like. For one thing, you want to keep traces as short as possible to reduce latency and at the same time you have to run traces in a way that keeps electrical interference between them to a minimum.

 

I'm sure there are some things you could do to improve cooling. But, as I said, unless that results in better performance or a cheaper price, what's the point? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[akio123008]

A lot of your ideas are based on assumptions about how the components are placed inside a computer case, and how the components themselves should be changed to allow for that.

 

You're free to place components wherever you want, and you don't need to redesign the parts to allow for that. For instance my mobo is placed horizontally, with the PSU above it turned on its side 90 degrees. 

 

The problem is just that weird and extreme solutions aren't for everyone; these massive heatsinks and heatpipes you mentioned have a price tag.

 

[pani_alex]

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Last but not least, you can't just move stuff on your motherboard around any way you like. For one thing, you want to keep traces as short as possible to reduce latency and at the same time you have to run traces in a way that keeps electrical interference between them to a minimum

i know, but muving from one side to the other its not to far away

 

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Components on the motherboard typically don't need active cooling. A small heat sink and some airflow from the case's coolers is enough. Why add heatpipes (=more expensive) when you don't need them?

i mean, only where its needed

 

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Moving stuff around and using a tower cooler on your GPU would be a nightmare in terms of backwards compatibility, since you'd have to redesign everything. The benefits of that redesign are questionable. Unless you get better performance or cheaper production, what's the point?

i know a new standart will make evething older useless, but sometimes it is necessary to make it better. Anyway, most graphic cards already use heatpipes. but yes, so like i say, also the grapich card have to move the gpu to the other side

[pani_alex]

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A lot of your ideas are based on assumptions about how the components are placed inside a computer case, and how the components themselves should be changed to allow for that.

not really, servers work that way, i mayselve make some test (just for fun) with my computer and ever meke a diference in temp and noise, so if and enginier make it, it have to be way better

[mariushm]

how old are you?

You're obvious you have little idea how cooling works and didn't really think through why the video card is positioned there. I'd suggest you think harder before just writing what comes through your mind.

[pani_alex]

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how old are you?

im 37.

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You're obvious you have little idea how cooling works and didn't really think through why the video card is positioned there

Explane it to me, its good to learn

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 I'd suggest you think harder before just writing what comes through your mind

i thought it, watched videos and play with cooling since i can remember, but i dont have to much money for a prototype to build

[RAS_3885]

The existing layout standards already allow for more than adequate cooling for the vast majority of consumers. The are, of course, products (be it cases, GPUs, fans, coolers, etc.) that perform better than others, but for most anyone looking to build a computer today they will be able to find an easy solution that will give them the performance and cooling they expect.

 

There will be edge cases of people looking to push outside what's mainstream. SFF, ultra-high-power builds, extreme OC, etc. are some examples. Those will require trade-offs and more complex solutions to handle cooling, but those looking to work in that space are ready to accept that. Those solutions will also cost more money. Pushing those costs to the mainstream products is just silly since 90+ percent of end users will see no benefit.

[gamelovers11223]

According to you, the GPU should be the hottest component in the case. Hot air is lighter than cold air, if you mount the GPU up top all the hot air will overheat it very quickly. 

[pani_alex]

12 hours ago, RAS_3885 said:

The existing layout standards already allow for more than adequate cooling for the vast majority of consumers. The are, of course, products (be it cases, GPUs, fans, coolers, etc.) that perform better than others, but for most anyone looking to build a computer today they will be able to find an easy solution that will give them the performance and cooling they expect.

 

There will be edge cases of people looking to push outside what's mainstream. SFF, ultra-high-power builds, extreme OC, etc. are some examples. Those will require trade-offs and more complex solutions to handle cooling, but those looking to work in that space are ready to accept that. Those solutions will also cost more money. Pushing those costs to the mainstream products is just silly since 90+ percent of end users will see no benefit.

I must disagree, the thing that it doesn't burn, doesn't mean that its ok. Lets say that the point it's the best performance possible.

Right now, all the graphic cards i know, as soon as you star gaming, the star to screaming,  that it's now cool, and that could be easily avoid. It can be done like some servers make it,  adding some ducts to avoid the air to recirculate, so all the air that go throw the cooler cant go back and throw again or by creating the system taking in mind the hottest parts and the air flow.

The actual computer standar have already decades, in that time, computers where not like now, it has changed a lot

 

 

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According to you, the GPU should be the hottest component in the case. Hot air is lighter than cold air, if you mount the GPU up top all the hot air will overheat it very quickly. 

Not really, if you take in mind the amount of fresh air that is going in the case, there is no way that i will be near warm. There will be at least 3 120mm fan pushing air out of the case, what i think its wrong its the vrms cooler before the gpu, it must to be the last cooler

 

So, take in mind there are big fans, a big surface and its a lot of fresh air, it can't be hot because the is no recirculation,  like it is with the stock cpu cooler or the gpu inside the case or even worse with a sli configuration.

 

Like i said, i have ever test this "server" style air flow ducts, and ever get way better results of what you can get with how its stock

Right now i have an old used dell precision t3500 and it came with a kind of duct, that i make it a little better. And the new mac also cheese grater i think comes also with something like that

Come on, everybody know that a heatpipe cools better than aluminium, that bigger cooler make less noise and that you have to split the hot air from your portable ac to make it cool the room, there is no science in that.

and also i think most of the people know that its no ever the product what makes the price, but the production quantity.

 

Im not saying it must be the way i say, i'm just saying it need to be updated to meet today's needs. And just by avoiding recirculation it will be a big improvement, so how much better will it be if they take in mind that cpu and gpu are the hottest and more important parts of the system, so they get all agree to put then in a specific place so other computer parts maker can design components that will fit in there with no error and not only be useful for one specific case, but for the entire or all that take this standar.

 

I know, looking it from the point of view of business, it's impossible, because you need to do something that people will be thrown away in one year or less or it will brake or burn as soon as possible so the money will keep going into the company. 

Ok that is one point of view where economy is the most important part in the whole live but if you are realistic with the limited resources from the planet, with the amount of trash and with the reality, that most people don't really need to change the hardware every year, some doesn't even need to change it in 5 or more years.

 

So having saying that, lets forget a little about how much it will cost, because it also can not be that much expensive, like you can find something in aliexpress that you can't not believe, how cheap they are, yes cheap hast to do with how much you pay to your employees, the quality of the materials but also with how many of then are made, and to days with the automatisation it also would be slowly everything cheaper

[NineEyeRon]

Just liquid cool everything and pump the heat to a radiators, simpler and more compact.

 

Downside is maintenance of course but this can be overcome. 

 

Just put all the rads at the top of the case somehow and draw air up from the bottom across the MoBo to cool it and exhaust out the top. No need for front and back fans.

 

OK you will need the top of the case to be library 100% radiator but its doable.

[mariushm]

22 hours ago, pani_alex said:

I will create this topic to tell ideas for what i think will be a better way. Feel free to critique, that will bring better evolve.

Hi, i thought for a while that computer hardware need and upgrade, new standards. And its not just because its old, its also because its poor efficient.

ATX is an old form factor which comes from the times when we still had cases that were sitting horizontal, UNDER monitors, and when the most power hungry components were processors consuming 40-50 watts and we used 200-250 watt power supplies.

Only after some time, we have started using tower cases, in order to take advantage of the fact that warm air rises ... and that's why we had computer power supplies mounted at the top sucking air from inside the case and blowing air out the case, in the process cooling the power supply as well, simply by the way of air jet moving across heatsink fins inside the power supply.

Later, the power consumption of processors and video cards increased, requiring more powerful power supplies. As the power supplies are not 100% efficient, they also produce heat, and it was no longer a good idea to take heated air (air warmed up by cpu and vrm and maybe video card) and push it to an already warm power supply. So, that's why power supplies moved to the bottom of the case. Either cooler air from the bottom of the case (air can come from the front of the hard drive bays) can be sucked in the power supply or pushed out, or the power supply can be mounted with the fan at the bottom of the case: the cold air from the bottom, under the case, goes through the power supply, cools it and comes out the back of the power supply and that warmed up air can then safely go up ... remember, warm air rises.

 

You made some assumptions in your design that are incorrect.

Not everyone will want to keep their computers in tower format, and not everyone will have cases with holes for cooling at the top, cases may not have fans at the top, or mesh, or room for radiators at the top. Some part of the potential market may have the computer in an environment where having holes at the top of pc is just not a good idea... may be risk of something falling in the computer, maybe there's humidity in the room, maybe there's house pets like cats that will quickly find the warm top of the case a convenient place to sit on and leave fur and hair all over.

In the current design of motherboards and cases, the air warmed up by the cpu fan and the vrm can either go up through some fans on top of the case, or can be pushed out by case fans on the back of the case.

 

You want to put the video card at the top but somehow you have the idea that the space above the cpu socket is free. It's not.

 

The modern motherboards are typically arranged like in the picture below

The red stuff is the VRM which powers the cpu and the SoC part (usb controllers integrated graphics etc), basically more than a quarter of the cpu socket is just power delivery to the cpu - this vrm must be very close to cpu socket because cpus work with low voltages but high currents so making traces longer would cause voltage drops. You also can't put traces very close to this vrm because the vrm is high frequency, high current and can affect very fast signals like pci-e...

anyway... you also have hundreds of traces from the socket to the memory... it's not just the right side of the socket in the picture, some traces are also going up and to the right ...

On the bottom you have the SoC stuff coming out (display connectors for integrated graphics, data traces for the integrated usb controllers, sata controllers  and some of these have to be routed around the VRM or under the vrm through separate pcb layers to the IO shield.

Then you have mostly on the bottom of the socket the pci-e lanes... the cpu makes a bunch of lanes, and sets aside a few lanes (4 or 8 in the case of AM4 socket) to connect the chipset to the cpu. The rest of the pci-e lanes go pretty much in straight line down to slots... you want to keep distance as short as possible, to reduce signal degradation.

Now look at the picture carefully... if you want to put the video card at the top you'd basically have to make a U shape or some loop with the pci-e traces, bringing them all the way from the bottom to the top, crossing over everything, or the cpu would need to be made expensive with two separate pci-e controllers, a few lanes going to the top and some lanes going to the bottom.

It could be doable for idea, if we get rid of memory slots... let's put 4 HBM2 stacks on top of the cpu and then you have the whole right side of a cpu socket free for more traces ... but average user wouldn't pay for a CPU with memory built in, not to mention it would be difficult to cool the stacks and cpu die well.

So basically with current design of processors and the way sockets are made, it's close to impossible to add pci-e slots like you imagine.

VRMs and heatsinks and heatpipes...  a very efficient vrm will produce little heat. a budget motherboard will use chunky passive heatsinks because the budget mosfets/power stages are less efficient.

A more expensive board will use more power stages/mosfets keeping them where they're most efficient under load, so again, smaller heatsinks can be used  and less heat is produced

Heatpipes DO NOT cool... they just move the heat around... to cool something you need fins or heatsinks attached to those heatpipes... this stuff costs money, not only the raw materials (pipes, fins, manufacturing) but also weight which adds to the shipping costs ... it's often cheaper to put more power stages to spread the heat across larger surface on vrm than to put heatpipes ... tha's why you see now heatpipes only on top of the line motherboards... because it's overkill.

  Server boards can work very well with tiny heatsinks because vrms are more efficient and because of the known air flow and the orientation of all heatsinks guiding the air flow from front to back. 

 

Also video card on top... the hot video card would act like a wall for the cpu... not ony will the video card heat up from the warm air produced by the cpu and vrm, but the heat of the video card will be added to all the other heat, you're concentrating all the heat there, you're making a hot spot.

Your heat will not all be in the front of the video card, or in the heatsinks and heatpipes and so on, heat will radiate through the solder balls of the gpu chip into the video card pcb, ram will also radiate a lot of heat into the pcb, the vrm on the video card will produce some heat that will heat the pcb.... so the video card pcb will be like a radiator for the cpu.

 

you talk about the psu and heat from inside... no, you can mount the psu with the fan sucking cold air from outside, under the case, from the bottom where the air is cold, and then eject it out through the back of the case

 

one more thing about video cards ... again misunderstand how they cool.

They take air from the case (where cool air can come into the case from the front, from under where drives used to sit) and the fans push air through the fins of the heatsinks on the video cards and then the heated air either floats around the video card area and eventually goes up towards the cpu area and then out through the top or back fan , or the video card actually pushed the warmed up air ouside the case through the fins and area around the video card connectors.

Blower style fans on video cards are this to the extreme, they take air from case and push it out through the area around the video connectors.

You have choices to cool video cards very well... we used to have side panels with locations to mount fans to them, so fans could more or less take cold air from outside the case and blow it directly across the video card profile ... but now everyone wanted transparent glass panels, so they got of fashion.

Now the trend is to mount the video card vertically with the fans close to the glass panel , choking it , all in the name of design...

 

I'm sure there's more to comment but i already wrote so much ... too lazy to correct typos and spelling ... I'm in bed typing on a laptop so you'll have to forgive me 

 

[LurkerKing]

ATX is still the predominant form factor because it's a standard that has a lot of momentum, not because it's thermally optimized.

 

Intel tried to make a more modern and thermally optimized form factor standard with BTX years back, but it never stuck.

[pani_alex]

On 4/27/2020 at 12:29 PM, NineEyeRon said:

Just liquid cool everything and pump the heat to a radiators, simpler and more compact.

 

Downside is maintenance of course but this can be overcome. 

 

Just put all the rads at the top of the case somehow and draw air up from the bottom across the MoBo to cool it and exhaust out the top. No need for front and back fans.

 

OK you will need the top of the case to be library 100% radiator but its doable.

i realy love the coolin power from wc, but i hate the problems and having to taking care of the maintenance of it, maybe i build one one time if i wana waste my money but it have to be custom otherwise there is no fun

[pani_alex]

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ATX is an old form factor which comes from the times when we still had cases that were sitting horizontal, UNDER monitors, and when the most power hungry components were processors consuming 40-50 watts and we used 200-250 watt power supplies.

Only after some time, we have started using tower cases, in order to take advantage of the fact that warm air rises ... and that's why we had computer power supplies mounted at the top sucking air from inside the case and blowing air out the case, in the process cooling the power supply as well, simply by the way of air jet moving across heatsink fins inside the power supply.

Later, the power consumption of processors and video cards increased, requiring more powerful power supplies. As the power supplies are not 100% efficient, they also produce heat, and it was no longer a good idea to take heated air (air warmed up by cpu and vrm and maybe video card) and push it to an already warm power supply. So, that's why power supplies moved to the bottom of the case. Either cooler air from the bottom of the case (air can come from the front of the hard drive bays) can be sucked in the power supply or pushed out, or the power supply can be mounted with the fan at the bottom of the case: the cold air from the bottom, under the case, goes through the power supply, cools it and comes out the back of the power supply and that warmed up air can then safely go up ... remember, warm air rises.

I know, but i think psu need to be also an extractor, and nor psu, cpu or gpu hot air have to reuse the hot air of each other, because for me, each component that make a certain amount of heat, needs fresh air in order to be efficient cooled and remain silent. So in this scenario you will have 3 extractors pushing out air from the case, and because the other components are not a big source of hot air, and the air get through the case so quickly it will doesn't get hot enough to significant effect the result.

Also the vrms doesent need to me in a specific place for cooling, like notebooks you can take with heatpipes the heat where will be better to dissipate

 

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You made some assumptions in your design that are incorrect.

Not everyone will want to keep their computers in tower format, and not everyone will have cases with holes for cooling at the top, cases may not have fans at the top, or mesh, or room for radiators at the top. Some part of the potential market may have the computer in an environment where having holes at the top of pc is just not a good idea... may be risk of something falling in the computer, maybe there's humidity in the room, maybe there's house pets like cats that will quickly find the warm top of the case a convenient place to sit on and leave fur and hair all over.

In the current design of motherboards and cases, the air warmed up by the cpu fan and the vrm can either go up through some fans on top of the case, or can be pushed out by case fans on the back of the case.

You are right, let's say they are only 2 types of computer consumers, the office one and the gamer. For the first one could it be a form factor case that will take in mind for example that he will only want to use onboard graphics and maybe will add 1 to 3 expansion card eventually to his system, so there is no need for the big extra space for the more power gpu, maybe he will add a second little passive gpu for extra display if needed and thats all, so it could be benefit of having the psu over the gpu.

And for a gamer you need to take in mind more high performance components that generate more heat because even a low end gpu generate a over normal heat, so it could bring a smaller heatthing according on how much whats it outputs, but still needs fresh air to remain cool

[pani_alex]

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ATX is an old form factor which comes from the times when we still had cases that were sitting horizontal, UNDER monitors, and when the most power hungry components were processors consuming 40-50 watts and we used 200-250 watt power supplies.

Only after some time, we have started using tower cases, in order to take advantage of the fact that warm air rises ... and that's why we had computer power supplies mounted at the top sucking air from inside the case and blowing air out the case, in the process cooling the power supply as well, simply by the way of air jet moving across heatsink fins inside the power supply.

Later, the power consumption of processors and video cards increased, requiring more powerful power supplies. As the power supplies are not 100% efficient, they also produce heat, and it was no longer a good idea to take heated air (air warmed up by cpu and vrm and maybe video card) and push it to an already warm power supply. So, that's why power supplies moved to the bottom of the case. Either cooler air from the bottom of the case (air can come from the front of the hard drive bays) can be sucked in the power supply or pushed out, or the power supply can be mounted with the fan at the bottom of the case: the cold air from the bottom, under the case, goes through the power supply, cools it and comes out the back of the power supply and that warmed up air can then safely go up ... remember, warm air rises.

I know, my first idea was a custom fix pcie 16x riser cable, but with the shape that allows to be placed in that position, so it will not interfere with other components in the way, but then got the idea that it also can be direct on the motherboard if that is possible. So like i said, it is not that it has to be the way i say, it's just that there must to be a better way and as a silent pc fan, i think it's needed, and also talking doesn't kill anyone

 

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You made some assumptions in your design that are incorrect.

Not everyone will want to keep their computers in tower format, and not everyone will have cases with holes for cooling at the top, cases may not have fans at the top, or mesh, or room for radiators at the top. Some part of the potential market may have the computer in an environment where having holes at the top of pc is just not a good idea... may be risk of something falling in the computer, maybe there's humidity in the room, maybe there's house pets like cats that will quickly find the warm top of the case a convenient place to sit on and leave fur and hair all over.

In the current design of motherboards and cases, the air warmed up by the cpu fan and the vrm can either go up through some fans on top of the case, or can be pushed out by case fans on the back of the case.

As i understand, the are 2 pcie lines going out of the cpu, one exclusive for the gpu, and the other for all the pcie components and onboard things so i was assuming that if there is no electrical probleme the actual pcie 16x can be moved up and the others remain where they are.

Also they are already people that talk about ram could be useless in the future, ram on cpu could become cheap, ssds could be so fast that ram will be pointless and expensive, ho knows.

 

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The modern motherboards are typically arranged like in the picture below

The red stuff is the VRM which powers the cpu and the SoC part (usb controllers integrated graphics etc), basically more than a quarter of the cpu socket is just power delivery to the cpu - this vrm must be very close to cpu socket because cpus work with low voltages but high currents so making traces longer would cause voltage drops. You also can't put traces very close to this vrm because the vrm is high frequency, high current and can affect very fast signals like pci-e...

anyway... you also have hundreds of traces from the socket to the memory... it's not just the right side of the socket in the picture, some traces are also going up and to the right ...

On the bottom you have the SoC stuff coming out (display connectors for integrated graphics, data traces for the integrated usb controllers, sata controllers  and some of these have to be routed around the VRM or under the vrm through separate pcb layers to the IO shield.

Then you have mostly on the bottom of the socket the pci-e lanes... the cpu makes a bunch of lanes, and sets aside a few lanes (4 or 8 in the case of AM4 socket) to connect the chipset to the cpu. The rest of the pci-e lanes go pretty much in straight line down to slots... you want to keep distance as short as possible, to reduce signal degradation.

Now look at the picture carefully... if you want to put the video card at the top you'd basically have to make a U shape or some loop with the pci-e traces, bringing them all the way from the bottom to the top, crossing over everything, or the cpu would need to be made expensive with two separate pci-e controllers, a few lanes going to the top and some lanes going to the bottom.

It could be doable for idea, if we get rid of memory slots... let's put 4 HBM2 stacks on top of the cpu and then you have the whole right side of a cpu socket free for more traces ... but average user wouldn't pay for a CPU with memory built in, not to mention it would be difficult to cool the stacks and cpu die well.

So basically with current design of processors and the way sockets are made, it's close to impossible to add pci-e slots like you imagine.

They are also already companies that are trying to find a better way i think, some with the ultra compact pc, others using risers to put the gpu in a "better" place  which i think its not near the glass or just in a "visual" place with more RGB leds, intel with the new pcie computer card

 

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Also video card on top... the hot video card would act like a wall for the cpu... not ony will the video card heat up from the warm air produced by the cpu and vrm, but the heat of the video card will be added to all the other heat, you're concentrating all the heat there, you're making a hot spot.

Your heat will not all be in the front of the video card, or in the heatsinks and heatpipes and so on, heat will radiate through the solder balls of the gpu chip into the video card pcb, ram will also radiate a lot of heat into the pcb, the vrm on the video card will produce some heat that will heat the pcb.... so the video card pcb will be like a radiator for the cpu.

the hole point of this is to ensure that the air is only once used, so, the air that has already cooled lets say the cpu, goes out, and for that will be useful a duct that forces not only that hot air dont go any other way after its already not, but to force that the air goes through the components that need to be cooled.
I already have tested that in a tower cooler, there is to much open space where the air goes through and does nothing, because there is nothing hot in his way, so maybe the useless open spaces need to be blocked, to use more efficient the energy you already spend.
And you may say, but it's just 1°, and what if you fix or make 3, 5, 8 design improvements and in the end you get 10 or 20° lower temperature with 50% less or no noise? and just by adding some plastic or even paperboard and for the rgb fans and acrylic duct full of rgb all over the case, or even better a full acrylic case so all the components are floating in rgb light
aldo the cpu/motherboard/etc box could be pre cuttet so you reuse it to make a duct or be attached to the standard predesigned from factor

 

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one more thing about video cards ... again misunderstand how they cool.

They take air from the case (where cool air can come into the case from the front, from under where drives used to sit) and the fans push air through the fins of the heatsinks on the video cards and then the heated air either floats around the video card area and eventually goes up towards the cpu area and then out through the top or back fan , or the video card actually pushed the warmed up air ouside the case through the fins and area around the video card connectors.

Blower style fans on video cards are this to the extreme, they take air from case and push it out through the area around the video connectors.

You have choices to cool video cards very well... we used to have side panels with locations to mount fans to them, so fans could more or less take cold air from outside the case and blow it directly across the video card profile ... but now everyone wanted transparent glass panels, so they got of fashion.

Now the trend is to mount the video card vertically with the fans close to the glass panel , choking it , all in the name of design...

blower gpu cooling effectively put the hot air out of the case, but the big problem is that the fan doesn't move enough air, and i think also the problem is that the distance to cool is to long so the air already get to hot to continue cooling, over that are already some videos where even in twin tower design if you push fresh air over each tower makes a difference, with only pushing from one direction

 

 

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I'm obviously talking about of a pure point of view of maximum efficient not taking to much care of how it will cost and not having the technical knowledge to knowing if that could be done, but if you can think about it, it can be done one way or another and you cant say, its not gonna success, then some overpriced products like from mac are not real.

But what if it works, what if people really like the performance they are gaining? what if some crazy company make a product and people don't buy any more the older ones and that forces the update? because sometimes it's only that necessary, someone that make it first, before tesla electric cars where unthinkable, they were way too expensive, extremely "inefficient" and now turns out that there where a lot of lies around that and electric cars are better in many ways, and that there are more than enough people that will pay for it no matter what it cost and when the production grows, the prices go down

[pani_alex]

thanks all for the answers, i my post some projects in the future