Why do Gaming Headsets even exist? (prompted by today's video)

[isjosh]

This product category has always felt like a rip-off to me. You take mediocre headphone drivers, a mediocre mic, and GAMING then charge a premium. Just buy headphones (or In-ear monitors) and mic.

Tell me I am wrong.

[Firewrath9]

Well some low end gaming headsets (sub-50$) are decent, like the corsair HS50/HS70 (got the hs70 for 40$ on sale). A usable mic costs like 10-15$ and its hard to get a not shit 25$ headphones. the hs50 and hs70 actually measure quite well too.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/corsair/hs50

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/corsair/hs70-wireless

(7.5, 7.7 for gaming, and that website rates pretty harshly, only a couple headsets ($$$ ones, think HD 800) get above a 8.5 in any category, and a 7.5 is quite decent)

[Entropy.]

6 minutes ago, isjosh said:

This product category has always felt like a rip-off to me. You take mediocre headphone drivers, a mediocre mic, and GAMING then charge a premium. Just buy headphones (or In-ear monitors) and mic.

Tell me I am wrong.

In some cases you are. The main (actually valid) reasons for buying one are:

-integration with the manufactures rgb ecosystem 

- design

- extra features not found in other headsets that appeal directly to a specific consumer. 

[Firewrath9]

1 minute ago, InnerBeast Gaming said:

In some cases you are. The main (actually valid) reasons for buying one are:

-integration with the manufactures rgb ecosystem 

- design

- extra features not found in other headsets that appeal directly to a specific consumer. 

RGB = 10% more kills.

also, wdym design? it looks cooler? thats personal preference, and I think most gaming headsets look quite ugly, and there are far better looking non-gaming headsets.

 

Only real extra features are a built in mic and "7.1" audio which is shit for competitive games, and make non-competitive games sound worse.

[Tog Driver]

2 minutes ago, InnerBeast Gaming said:

-integration with the manufactures rgb ecosystem

Is the side of your head glowing while you play that big a deal?

[SansVarnic]

-= Moved to Audio =-

[Applefreak]

All that gaming stuff is kind confusing and it's kind of hard to see what is good and what isn't. In the past (before Steam and youtube) you had pretty crappy headsets or you got yourself a real setup if you wanted more. I am using 350.-  headphones with a 180.- Rode mic. Seems overkill but I have never had an issue since I've bought them in 2008. 

[cloneman]

Today's video as about wireless  wireless  wireless  wireless wireless gaming headsets, aka, an all-in-one product that provides adequate quality for many tasks, far eclisping bluetooth quality for conference calls.

 

 

What exactly has the audiophile segment done for wireless enthusiasts? And people who just want a decent wireless headset for voice calls?
Take your time... I'll wait.

 

There's a 350$ Senneheiser / Jabra option for wireless DECT phone calls that's woefully inadequate for music, movies, or gaming. There's dedicated audiophile wireless headphones ... (and not much of them)... with no mic attached.

 

Wireless Gaming headsets are all-on-one products that provide adequatte quality for many needs, music, movies, phone calls, gaming.

Did it mention it's wireless Also, it's not bluetooth. did I mention it's not bluetooth? I'm not trying to be a dick here. There is a HUGE market for a 150$ product that does everything. People know that 90% of bluetooth headphones are complete garbage for range, microphone, and multiple use cases. This is why the proprietary wireless gaming headphone segment exists.

The marketplace is full of bad solutions as far as wireless is concerned. Gaming headsets are actually the best you can do in many cases. Unless you get an LDAC bluetooth dongle from Fiio and a seperate wired microphone. That's basically your ownly option, and then you have no mobility for taking business calls in the kitchen.

 

 

I wish audiophiles would get their had outside their anhechoic chambers for just a minute and realise what needs exist outside of listening to flac files. Most people want the quality that is afforded by 60$ wired  headphones, in a wireless format. And some people need a device that isn't some horrible bluetooth product for gaming. 

Just like for some people sound is everything, for others, wireless range is everything.

 

[CuriousBro]

It's an interesting topic. I just got a HyperX Alpha S for 109$. The general sound, virtual surround sound, comfort, and build quality are the highest I've used. I wonder how much it would cost for better. 

 

How much for;

- Better mic?

- Better general sound? 

- Virtual surround sound flash drive, AMP, or sound card?

- Comfort?

- Build quality?

 

Give me the setup for less than 109$ and I'm all ears. For now, unless we are talking about spending 150$+ for headphones alone, I'll say it's cheaper for the gaming set up. But I am curious if anyone has a better setup for the same cost they pieced together themselves.

[isjosh]

14 minutes ago, cloneman said:

Today's video as about wireless  wireless  wireless  wireless wireless gaming headsets, aka, an all-in-one product that provides adequate quality for many tasks, far eclisping bluetooth quality for conference calls.

 

 

What exactly has the audiophile segment done for wireless enthusiasts? And people who just want a decent wireless headset for voice calls?
Take your time... I'll wait.

 

There's a 350$ Senneheiser / Jabra option for wireless DECT phone calls that's woefully inadequate for music, movies, or gaming. There's dedicated audiophile wireless headphones ... (and not much of them)... with no mic attached.

 

Wireless Gaming headsets are all-on-one products that provide adequatte quality for many needs, music, movies, phone calls, gaming.

Did it mention it's wireless .wireless . Also, it's not bluetooth. did I mention it's not bluetooth? I'm not trying to be a dick here. There is a HUGE market for a 150$ product that does everything. People know that 90% of bluetooth headphones are complete garbage for range, microphone, and multiple use cases. This is why the proprietary wireless gaming headphone segment exists.

 

 

I wish audiophiles would get their had outside their anhechoic chambers for just a minute and realise what needs exist outside of listening to flac files. Most people want the quality that is afforded by 60$ wired  headphones, in a wireless format. And some people need a device that isn't some horrible bluetooth product for gaming. 

Just like for some people sound is everything, for others, wireless range is everything.

 

I get the wireless. wireless! and not bluetooth. Freedom of movement is great in so many cases. I just don't associate those cases with pc gaming. They exist for you and that is great. PS your not being a dick. My original comment was intentionally worded to get strong replies.

[isjosh]

12 minutes ago, CuriousBro said:

How much for;

- Better mic?

- Better general sound? 

- Virtual surround sound flash drive, AMP, or sound card?

- Comfort?

- Build quality?

How do I tag ltt for this as a video suggestion? An important thing from my view is in addition to my perception of the immediate quality trade-off, is the long term one. As 

31 minutes ago, Applefreak said:

... I am using 350.-  headphones with a 180.- Rode mic. Seems overkill but I have never had an issue since I've bought them in 2008. 

Good Headphones/mics last a long time. I've participated in many discussions with friends of them needing to buy a new gaming headset because of its bad build quality.

[rambi36]

Some people just like the convenience of having a mic and headphone built into one. Solutions such as the modmic(which I use) definitely make it somewhat more convenient, but then you have to deal with 2 different cables.Having a $50 headset with everything built in sounds more appealing  to the average consumer than buying a $30-40 pair of headphones and pairing them with a $40-50 mic, no matter how much better the quality will be. 

[JoostinOnline]

1 hour ago, isjosh said:

This product category has always felt like a rip-off to me. You take mediocre headphone drivers, a mediocre mic, and GAMING then charge a premium. Just buy headphones (or In-ear monitors) and mic.

Tell me I am wrong.

Those were expensive because they were wireless.

[Derkoli]

1 hour ago, cloneman said:

I wish audiophiles would get their had outside their anhechoic chambers for just a minute and realise what needs exist outside of listening to flac files. Most people want the quality that is afforded by 60$ wired  headphones, in a wireless format. And some people need a device that isn't some horrible bluetooth product for gaming. 

Well, most audiophiles do understand the need for wireless options to be available. This is usually called "Future-Fi"

 

There are plenty of "audiophile" products that exist that use wireless solutions extensively. Take the KEF LS50 Wireless/LSX and Dali Callisto 2C and 6C's for example.

 

The reason why audiophile's tend to not use wireless products is the fact that wired will always be better than wireless for overall fidelity at this current point in time.

 

What's the point in engineering an expensive product, such as my current power amplifiers, then connecting them to a pre-amp with a wireless solution, when wired sounds better, has less latency and is overall more reliable? It just doesn't make sense to effectively bottleneck something with a wireless connection.

 

Audiophile's tend to strive for the best fidelity/quality possible, so wireless really isn't an option right now.

[JZStudios]

2 hours ago, InnerBeast Gaming said:

In some cases you are. The main (actually valid) reasons for buying one are:

-integration with the manufactures rgb ecosystem 

Because when I'm wearing headphones in my room alone, I NEED them to color match my particular rainbow.

 

2 hours ago, cloneman said:

Did it mention it's wireless Also, it's not bluetooth. did I mention it's not bluetooth? I'm not trying to be a dick here. There is a HUGE market for a 150$ product that does everything. People know that 90% of bluetooth headphones are complete garbage for range, microphone, and multiple use cases. This is why the proprietary wireless gaming headphone segment exists.

How is it wireless if not Bluetooth? Do they have 2.4g receivers or something? Wouldn't that limit their usability to the house or somewhere with a network?

[Firewrath9]

5 hours ago, CuriousBro said:

It's an interesting topic. I just got a HyperX Alpha S for 109$. The general sound, virtual surround sound, comfort, and build quality are the highest I've used. I wonder how much it would cost for better. 

 

How much for;

- Better mic?

- Better general sound? 

- Virtual surround sound flash drive, AMP, or sound card?

- Comfort?

- Build quality?

 

Give me the setup for less than 109$ and I'm all ears. For now, unless we are talking about spending 150$+ for headphones alone, I'll say it's cheaper for the gaming set up. But I am curious if anyone has a better setup for the same cost they pieced together themselves.

I got a pair of AD700Xs + Modmic 4 for 65$ shipped. It stomps the HyperX alpha S, with larger soundstage (due to the open back design and the 53mm drivers) and better sound quality. Not sure on the mic quality on the Alpha S, but the modmic 4 is quite decent. Virtual surround sound is a joke, and you can get a good dac for 20$ ( <-- best dac under 100$ no joke), although you don't need a dac at this sound quality.   

Comfort, idk the comfort of the Alpha S, but the AD700Xs are quite nice and not too loose, I actually prefer it over the 598 Cs, 6XX, and DT 880s. As for build quality, again, not sure about the Alpha S, but its good enough, theres a point where any improvement in build quality has no effect. 

 

 

[CuriousBro]

2 hours ago, Firewrath9 said:

I got a pair of AD700Xs + Modmic 4 for 65$ shipped. It stomps the HyperX alpha S, with larger soundstage (due to the open back design and the 53mm drivers) and better sound quality. Not sure on the mic quality on the Alpha S, but the modmic 4 is quite decent. Virtual surround sound is a joke, and you can get a good dac for 20$ ( <-- best dac under 100$ no joke), although you don't need a dac at this sound quality.   

Comfort, idk the comfort of the Alpha S, but the AD700Xs are quite nice and not too loose, I actually prefer it over the 598 Cs, 6XX, and DT 880s. As for build quality, again, not sure about the Alpha S, but its good enough, theres a point where any improvement in build quality has no effect. 

 

 

I get the used market, and buy used all the time. But my Hyper X were new in an open box. The AD700Xs are 85$ + Modmic 4 looks like it's 50$ which is 135$, and the DAC brings it up to 155$. And virtual surround sound makes a clear difference in gaming. The experience is markedly better. I won't argue on the higher end higher quality is better when pieced together. But what you mentioned costs more, and is different than what I'm using. Closed cans minimize sound so others in another room are less likely to hear, and reviews of the AD700X advertise the ability to hear your friends talk while you listen. When I'm gaming and others are around, I don't want to hear them.

[Firewrath9]

Just now, CuriousBro said:

I get the used market, and buy used all the time. But my Hyper X were new in an open box. The AD700Xs are 85$ + Modmic 4 looks like it's 50$ which is 135$, and the DAC brings it up to 155$.

 

And virtual surround sound makes a clear difference in gaming. The experience is markedly better. I won't argue on the higher end higher quality is better when pieced together. But what you mentioned costs more, and is different than what I'm using.

 

Closed cans minimize sound so others in another room are less likely to hear, and reviews of the AD700X advertise the ability to hear your friends talk while you listen. When I'm gaming and others are around, I don't want to hear them.

The modmic 4 is discontinued, so thats why its 50$. for 20$ you can get a fifine usb mic, which is much better than a headset mic. thats 105$, and you don't need a dac onboard is plenty good, or 125$ with a dac. The Cloud Alpha S new (not open box, open box =/= new) are 130$, so its similar price point.

 

7.1 sound doesn't help at all in singleplayer more casual games, and makes the audio sound worse (in games like metro exodus, RE2, etc.), in more competitive games where imaging is important (for example csgo) they have much better built in audio engines that get distorted and messed up when you turn on surround sound. The larger soundstage that a AD700X or the A550z (if you want closed back) headphones provide will allow you to get better imaging than on a cloud flight. Also, most of the "7.1" surround sound is software based, like what linus showed in one of his videos.

 

You can get closed back versions of the AD700x too, it just has a smaller soundstage (still bigger than the cloud alphas. The leakage/pass-through of the headphones is vastly exaggerated, its hard to play games at normal volume and hear someone nearby talk to you at the same time (maybe I just play with a higher volume than others :P)

[WereCatf]

10 hours ago, isjosh said:

This product category has always felt like a rip-off to me. You take mediocre headphone drivers, a mediocre mic, and GAMING then charge a premium. Just buy headphones (or In-ear monitors) and mic.

Tell me I am wrong.

You are wrong. Happy?

 

I can't say about the other people, but I like having a microphone on the headset. I don't have space on my desk for a separate microphone, I don't wish to pay the kind of money manufacturers ask for a separate microphone nor do I have any need for a microphone unless I am gaming, so it'd pointlessly take space any time I'm not gaming.

 

As for mediocre drivers: there are headsets with perfectly fine drivers, you're just being a biased elitist.

[WereCatf]

7 hours ago, JZStudios said:

How is it wireless if not Bluetooth? Do they have 2.4g receivers or something? Wouldn't that limit their usability to the house or somewhere with a network?

Something using the 2.4Ghz frequency doesn't necessarily mean they use WiFi. You can perfectly well use the 2.4GHz frequency for some custom protocol.

[WereCatf]

10 hours ago, Firewrath9 said:

Only real extra features are a built in mic and "7.1" audio which is shit for competitive games, and make non-competitive games sound worse.

Matter of taste and implementation. I, personally, find the feature very nice, both for competitive FPS-gaming and single-player FPS-games.

[an actual squirrel]

Remember guys, the advantage of 7.1 over stereo is that 7.1 has a defined layout with discrete front and rear channels. With the use of hrtf, you can portray that dimension over headphones, which is how a lot of these products work.

 

Between the PS5 coming with hrtf, and some esports games coming with hrtf, it's becoming increasingly untenable to argue that this is just some gimmick and that stereo with good headphones is somehow comparable to this more complex audio with more directional information through the modeling of human hearing.

[cloneman]

18 hours ago, JZStudios said:

How is it wireless if not Bluetooth? Do they have 2.4g receivers or something? Wouldn't that limit their usability to the house or somewhere with a network?

Yes they have their only dongle with a proprietary implimentation usually. They do this because bluetooth , espcially in the past, has had:

 

- bad range

- bad latency

- bad compresion

- pairing problems

- simultaneous stereo audio + mic not supported

 

Some of these things have gotten better, some of have not, but especially the last one has not, which makes it a no-go for gamers

[JZStudios]

15 hours ago, Firewrath9 said:

7.1 sound doesn't help at all in singleplayer more casual games, and makes the audio sound worse (in games like metro exodus, RE2, etc.), in more competitive games where imaging is important (for example csgo) they have much better built in audio engines that get distorted and messed up when you turn on surround sound. The larger soundstage that a AD700X or the A550z (if you want closed back) headphones provide will allow you to get better imaging than on a cloud flight. Also, most of the "7.1" surround sound is software based, like what linus showed in one of his videos.

I disagree, but I've also got a proper setup. VSS in headphones is crap though. I know BF4 for example works pretty well with native "VSS" for headphones, at the cost of doing the same shitty filtering and only offering quad output on actual systems.

 

13 hours ago, WereCatf said:

I can't say about the other people, but I like having a microphone on the headset. I don't have space on my desk for a separate microphone

I have a questionably 10 year old 720p Logitech webcam that I use as a mic, and people say it sounds just fine and it stays out of the way.

 

13 hours ago, WereCatf said:

Something using the 2.4Ghz frequency doesn't necessarily mean they use WiFi. You can perfectly well use the 2.4GHz frequency for some custom protocol.

Sure, but I don't think phones have 2.4g transmitters for that. Could be wrong. If so, that limits the functionality to either the network or a dongle on the PC.

 

7 hours ago, an actual squirrel said:

Remember guys, the advantage of 7.1 over stereo is that 7.1 has a defined layout with discrete front and rear channels. With the use of hrtf, you can portray that dimension over headphones, which is how a lot of these products work.

 

Between the PS5 coming with hrtf, and some esports games coming with hrtf, it's becoming increasingly untenable to argue that this is just some gimmick and that stereo with good headphones is somehow comparable to this more complex audio with more directional information through the modeling of human hearing.

HRTF and VSS are not the same thing. It's like squares and rectangles. VSS can use HRTF, but it doesn't necessarily. The PS5 might do it properly and do it at game time and only do stereo recording, instead of taking the 7.1 format and bullshitting it into stereo.

And I continue to be baffled by how people claim it doesn't reduce audio quality, then turn around and say it sucks to listen to music or anything stereo with it.

[jake9000]

I've had my DT770s since 2011 and nothing in that video made me want to change that. I get the draw of wireless, all my work phone calls are done on a Jabra Evolve 75, but the horrid mic quality and build quality on these headsets is just disrespectful. 

 

If you want decent VSS have a look at the Creative G6. Only one I've tried that didn't sound like it was underwater, and it works with your favorite analog headphones.