sound card

[airbus]

Do I need to buy a sound card for my asus rampage iv extreme?

[Theo]

headphones? budget? need more info but probably not

[mr magnesium]

you might try asking the audio section of the forum as well

[DIV1D3]

You don't need to, if you do want better audio though I'd say you should get a DAC. 

Also this should be in the Audio sub-forum. 

[Joshua Ondangan]

well a asus xonar essence stx if you got a mid budget with a really HIGH quality cans = improvement. 

 

not only is it an improvement of the sound but it also improves your wallets standing from high to low.

[ShearMe]

well a asus xonar essence stx if you got a mid budget with a really HIGH quality cans = improvement. 

 

not only is it an improvement of the sound but it also improves your wallets standing from high to low.

 

[TheDigitalRealm]

well a asus xonar essence stx if you got a mid budget with a really HIGH quality cans = improvement. 

 

not only is it an improvement of the sound but it also improves your wallets standing from high to low.

I'd strongly recommend against getting a sound card. Nowadays it's known that sound cards colour the audio horribly. If you have the budget. (£250+) for a decent DAC/AMP and have a good set of cans, I'd go that way.

[TheDigitalRealm]

Do I need to buy a sound card for my asus rampage iv extreme?

This depends on a few variables. Are you happy with the sound you're getting out of it? If not, do you have Headphones that would benefit from buying a DAC+AMP set up?

[Joshua Ondangan]

yes I'm happy with my xonar essence stx .

 

I do audio editing though and for my cans it's the ath w5000

 

audio stuff is one of my job.

 

I see no reason to get dac+amp.

 

for gaming just use the onboard sound. I'm just using onboard sound on my gaming rig lol. sound isn't good but it's just for games.

 

for OP he can get what I advise him too. not sure if he is just gaming or just listening to music or doing audio work. if he does all just get all. but pretty much you won't benefit much with on board if you want really good sound for listening to music

or the clear sound for gaming. just that you will really spend quite a bit if you want good sound quality whether you go dac + amp + really high quality cans.

 

pretty much you might have to spend at least 400-500 depending on how you level quality.

 

side note: although I'm also in the market for new sound cards to replace my stx was looking for something more powerful but during the time of the sale (got it for 80$) the stx was a great choice.

[mr moose]

yes I'm happy with my xonar essence stx .

 

I do audio editing though and for my cans it's the ath w5000

 

audio stuff is one of my job.

 

I see no reason to get dac+amp.

 

for gaming just use the onboard sound. I'm just using onboard sound on my gaming rig lol. sound isn't good but it's just for games.

 

for OP he can get what I advise him too. not sure if he is just gaming or just listening to music or doing audio work. if he does all just get all. but pretty much you won't benefit much with on board if you want really good sound for listening to music

or the clear sound for gaming. just that you will really spend quite a bit if you want good sound quality whether you go dac + amp + really high quality cans.

 

pretty much you might have to spend at least 400-500 depending on how you level quality.

 

side note: although I'm also in the market for new sound cards to replace my stx was looking for something more powerful but during the time of the sale (got it for 80$) the stx was a great choice.

um, that sound card offers nothing compelling for audio work, why would you?  for $189 there are have multitudes of options,  but for the OP the most important thing to know is what headphones does he use and what is his intended purpose.  No one should recommend anything until we know that.

[Joshua Ondangan]

um, that sound card offers nothing compelling for audio work, why would you?  for $189 there are have multitudes of options,  but for the OP the most important thing to know is what headphones does he use and what is his intended purpose.  No one should recommend anything until we know that.

It does help me (btw as I said it only cost me 80$ us converted it's a good deal )

 

pretty much the only other upgrade for it would be a usb to spdif converter for the computer to dac.

 

OP did ask "Do I need to buy a sound card for my asus rampage iv extreme?"

 

pretty much my answer was

 

"for OP he can get what I advise him too. not sure if he is just gaming or just listening to music or doing audio work. if he does all just get all. but pretty much you won't benefit much with on board if you want really good sound for listening to music

or the clear sound for gaming. just that you will really spend quite a bit if you want good sound quality whether you go dac + amp + really high quality cans."

 

in other words. He *probably* won't need it. but if he does.

 

1- Because the asus rampage iv extreme is a x79 flatform "normally" not used for gaming. but not everyone is normal here including me nyahaha kinda abnormal at some times.

2- seeing as he can afford a x79 system assuming he got the pocket.

3- my stuff here "but pretty much you won't benefit much with on board if you want really good sound for listening to music

or the clear sound for gaming."

4- and here "pretty much you might have to spend at least 400-500 depending on how you level quality." (this could be more if he really is a big audiophile).

 

best recommendation = grab a pizza and some beer and be golden

[mr moose]

It does help me (btw as I said it only cost me 80$ us converted it's a good deal )

 

pretty much the only other upgrade for it would be a usb to spdif converter for the computer to dac.

 

OP did ask "Do I need to buy a sound card for my asus rampage iv extreme?"

 

pretty much my answer was

 

"for OP he can get what I advise him too. not sure if he is just gaming or just listening to music or doing audio work. if he does all just get all. but pretty much you won't benefit much with on board if you want really good sound for listening to music

or the clear sound for gaming. just that you will really spend quite a bit if you want good sound quality whether you go dac + amp + really high quality cans."

 

in other words. He *probably* won't need it. but if he does.

 

1- Because the asus rampage iv extreme is a x79 flatform "normally" not used for gaming. but not everyone is normal here including me nyahaha kinda abnormal at some times.

2- seeing as he can afford a x79 system assuming he got the pocket.

3- my stuff here "but pretty much you won't benefit much with on board if you want really good sound for listening to music

or the clear sound for gaming."

4- and here "pretty much you might have to spend at least 400-500 depending on how you level quality." (this could be more if he really is a big audiophile).

 

best recommendation = grab a pizza and some beer and be golden

It may have only cost you $80 but it's not likely the OP will get one for that price.

[Joshua Ondangan]

It may have only cost you $80 but it's not likely the OP will get one for that price.

yep I agree. that's why I say he "probably" won't need sound cards. but if he does and have a deep pocket to let loose he can get the best of both worlds and be done with it.

 

side note: it would be amazing if he did built that x79 system just for gaming/browsing.   but whatever makes OP happy so long as it puts a smile in his face.

[mr moose]

yep I agree. that's why I say he "probably" won't need sound cards. but if he does and have a deep pocket to let loose he can get the best of both worlds and be done with it.

 

side note: it would be amazing if he did built that x79 system just for gaming/browsing.   but whatever makes OP happy so long as it puts a smile in his face.

again, we don't know what headphones the OP is using, if he gets an STX and has 32ohm cans then he is literally going backwards in sound quality. The stx sucks with anything below 80ohms.  In my opinion spending $189 on an stx is about $189 more than required for less quality.

[Joshua Ondangan]

again, we don't know what headphones the OP is using, if he gets an STX and has 32ohm cans then he is literally going backwards in sound quality. The stx sucks with anything below 80ohms.  In my opinion spending $189 on an stx is about $189 more than required for less quality.

omg lol that reminds me when I first got my stx lol. I was using the corsair vengeance 1300 the quality was just fine but garbage in my point of view. it just totally suck .

 

yeah I agree pretty much. 

[Guest]

again, we don't know what headphones the OP is using, if he gets an STX and has 32ohm cans then he is literally going backwards in sound quality. The stx sucks with anything below 80ohms.  In my opinion spending $189 on an stx is about $189 more than required for less quality.

Just out of interest here, but looking at the driver settings it looks like the gain is set at default to be used with headphones of 32ohms and under, with options for <250ohms and Extra High <600ohms.  Obviously you would match your headphone spec as closely as you can.

 

What evidence is there to suggest that it sucks under 80ohms?  What is there to suggest that he's "literally" going backwards in terms of quality (taking the price of the unit out of the equation.  Everyone knows it's relatively expensive).    This card draws a lot of aggro and I'm still trying to learn why Most articles and blog entries and reviews I can find online about it seem to rate the card somewhat positively.

 

And to answer the OP: No you don't need one.  Do you want one? What for? If so, you might get some better answers asking that question and alternative solutions that are potentially superior and cheaper.

[ShearMe]

Just out of interest here, but looking at the driver settings it looks like the gain is set at default to be used with headphones of 32ohms and under, with options for <250ohms and Extra High <600ohms.  Obviously you would match your headphone spec as closely as you can.

 

What evidence is there to suggest that it sucks under 80ohms?  What is there to suggest that he's "literally" going backwards in terms of quality (taking the price of the unit out of the equation.  Everyone knows it's relatively expensive).    This card draws a lot of aggro and I'm still trying to learn why Most articles and blog entries and reviews I can find online about it seem to rate the card somewhat positively.

 

And to answer the OP: No you don't need one.  Do you want one? What for? If so, you might get some better answers asking that question and alternative solutions that are potentially superior and cheaper.

Changing the gain only changes the voltage output of the opamp, so nothin quality-wise. The STX has a 10 ohm output impedance like most soundcards, which can change the frequency response of low impedance headphones. Additionally, the noise floor is measured at max volume, but because you'd be insane to not use a low volume setting for low impedance headphones, and because they're usually fairly sensitive, the noise is quite noticible despite the 128 SNR or whatever they're claiming nowadays.

[mr moose]

Just out of interest here, but looking at the driver settings it looks like the gain is set at default to be used with headphones of 32ohms and under, with options for <250ohms and Extra High <600ohms.  Obviously you would match your headphone spec as closely as you can.

 

What evidence is there to suggest that it sucks under 80ohms?  What is there to suggest that he's "literally" going backwards in terms of quality (taking the price of the unit out of the equation.  Everyone knows it's relatively expensive).    This card draws a lot of aggro and I'm still trying to learn why Most articles and blog entries and reviews I can find online about it seem to rate the card somewhat positively.

 

And to answer the OP: No you don't need one.  Do you want one? What for? If so, you might get some better answers asking that question and alternative solutions that are potentially superior and cheaper.

Asus have designed it to drive all headphones, unfortunately due to it's output impedance (10ohms) it doesn't do to well with headphones below 80 ohm. 

 

When you select 32 ohm headphones in the control panel it reduces the gain of the amp so the headphones don't sound too loud, and vice versa if you have high impedance headphones you can turn the gain up so the perceived volume is not effected.  Unfortunately regardless of what you set that to, the output impedance does not change and it's ability to control the headphones is reduced.  The general rule of thumb for good headphone (or speaker) control is to have a driver that is 8 times higher impedance than the output of the amp.

[Guest]

Thanks guys.  That was really helpful.

 

From what I've been gathering over the past week or two on this is pretty much confirmed by what you have both mentioned here.  High impedance phones need the gain boost from the output to drive them at a suitable/comfortable volume. Yet if I was to use some 600ohm headphones with the relevant gain setting I would experience more audio artifacts or static?

 

I think I'm starting to understand, so correct me if I'm wrong - but is the problem that the output of the card is not variable too low? It is stuck at 10ohms and relies on upping the gain as a workaround to be better suited to high impedance phones? (as opposed to, say, using an older 80s-90's high impedance hi-fi system)

 

I've read in other articles that using this method and equipment should result in a "smoother" transition in the rise and fall in volume.  I'm taking that with a large bucket of salt.  There seems to be a lot of confusion on the matter, even on "audiophile" websites when it gets into the technical details.  I've been trying to absorb what information I can from a good friend who is a university lecturer in electronic engineering.  I've had him fact check a lot of articles and he has found some glaring errors, which doesn't help when trying to find your way through the fog.

[mr moose]

Thanks guys.  That was really helpful.

 

From what I've been gathering over the past week or two on this is pretty much confirmed by what you have both mentioned here.  High impedance phones need the gain boost from the output to drive them at a suitable/comfortable volume. Yet if I was to use some 600ohm headphones with the relevant gain setting I would experience more audio artifacts or static? no, unless the sound device is dodgy more gain just means louder.

 

I think I'm starting to understand, so correct me if I'm wrong - but is the problem that the output of the card is not variable too low? It is stuck at 10ohms and relies on upping the gain as a workaround to be better suited to high impedance phones? (as opposed to, say, using an older 80s-90's high impedance hi-fi system) not too low, too high, see rant below.

 

I've read in other articles that using this method and equipment should result in a "smoother" transition in the rise and fall in volume.  I'm taking that with a large bucket of salt.  There seems to be a lot of confusion on the matter, even on "audiophile" websites when it gets into the technical details.  I've been trying to absorb what information I can from a good friend who is a university lecturer in electronic engineering.  I've had him fact check a lot of articles and he has found some glaring errors, which doesn't help when trying to find your way through the fog. We understand completely. Audio is a rather complex science that is essentially bound by human perception (the psychology of that alone is whole other study).

 

Every device that can drive headphones has an output impedance.  The marketing division of Asus and creative want to confuse you into thinking theirs is excellent by saying things like "600ohm  amp"   which completely ignores the fact that output impedance has nothing to do with driving headphone impedance,  it is essentially the resistance of the output stage of the amp, it is a fixed value and lower is better.  The asus xonar is 10 ohms regardless of where you set the gain (the selector with the ohm ratings beside it).  For the amp to be able to control the headphones it needs to be 8 times lower than the impedance of the headphones. for example if you are using 32 ohm headphones then the output impedance needs to be 4 ohms or less, the Xonar has 10 so it will loose current to the output (and thus have less control over the headphone driver).

 

 

My rant:

 

We see time and time again threads pointing to the gain control part of the STX device manager and people telling us we are wrong about the output impedance, It takes a lot of time and effort to counter the marketing department of Asus, even though it is a provable, measurable fact with much supporting evidence.   It will color the sound, the issue is that some people may prefer the colored sound while others don't know the sound is colored. This makes it hard to demonstrate without have an AB comparator available across the net.   I believe everyone should understand the difference and then decide for themselves,  Esp considering the card costs $189.    /rant

[Guest]

Awesome, thanks for explaining.

 

Personally, having compared a few different sound sources recently I prefer the sound of my STX - even if it means the sound is coloured, it sounds best to me.

 

That may all change once I get my DT880's though....

[mr moose]

Awesome, thanks for explaining.

 

Personally, having compared a few different sound sources recently I prefer the sound of my STX - even if it means the sound is coloured, it sounds best to me.

 

That may all change once I get my DT880's though....

 

At the end of the day so long as you know and are happy.  I will never begrudge someone for wanting something I personally don't, It is human to like different things.  I will however stomp all over anyone who recommends them while blindly dismissing the facts.  I hope you enjoy the 880's. For me it almost doesn't matter what headphones they are, new ones are always fun.

[Nizkus]

I do audio editing though and for my cans it's the ath w5000

STX is quite bad for low impedance headphones like W5000, but if you are happy with it, who am I to judge.

[Joshua Ondangan]

STX is quite bad for low impedance headphones like W5000, but if you are happy with it, who am I to judge.

I am happy with it. I also have other cans but the w5000 makes me happy. 

 

I got some senn hd 26 pro, hme 26II, hd 335, ie 800, hd 700

 

ath-m50's, ad900x

 

are pretty much all the other cans I have so far with my settings I'm happy with the w5000 it's where my ears are smiling .

 

as I said other upgrades to it would be a usb to spdif for the dac to the stx for a much better quality.

 

anyways I think we are all drifting anyways I don't recommend stuff based on what other say or what review sites say. I only recommend stuff with me having first hand experience.

 

like the stx example. but the way a sound goes to a persons ear is different from one another.

 

example is the ie 800 I bought it using my own money then after using it I fine that it's ok but didn't like it so it's on display now and if someone where to go ask for some stuff on their ear it's something I won't recommend since I didn't like it.

 

I'm looking over the dt 770 pro but too bad it's not being sold locally for now.

[mr moose]

I am happy with it. I also have other cans but the w5000 makes me happy. 

 

I got some senn hd 26 pro, hme 26II, hd 335, ie 800, hd 700

 

ath-m50's, ad900x

 

are pretty much all the other cans I have so far with my settings I'm happy with the w5000 it's where my ears are smiling .

 

as I said other upgrades to it would be a usb to spdif for the dac to the stx for a much better quality.

 

anyways I think we are all drifting anyways I don't recommend stuff based on what other say or what review sites say. I only recommend stuff with me having first hand experience.

 

like the stx example. but the way a sound goes to a persons ear is different from one another.

 

example is the ie 800 I bought it using my own money then after using it I fine that it's ok but didn't like it so it's on display now and if someone where to go ask for some stuff on their ear it's something I won't recommend since I didn't like it.

 

I'm looking over the dt 770 pro but too bad it's not being sold locally for now.

 

How would a usb to spdif be an upgrade for a sound card?