Why do people avoid Epic?

[JZStudios]

5 hours ago, IdlePX said:

@JZStudios Bold text there, because I don't think you even read the post. If you did, you certainly didn't understand the intent. If I can actively reduce the money I give to a person or company, I can live with myself. Life isn't all about extremes. There's a million shades of grey in-between.

No. That's exactly like saying I won't give MS any money, I'll just buy the Xbox and exclusively run Win10. If you didn't want to give MS money you'd be using Apple or Linux and a PS4. Saying you won't give them money and immediately give them money is stupid and makes your argument exceptionally weak.

"I won't buy their games because I don't want to give them money. But I'm still going to buy their games."

I don't know why you people think I have a reading comprehension problem.

[IdlePX]

@JZStudios

Different shades of grey... *Shrugs*

 

Not weak. I can dislike something without having a deeply embedded hatred of something that'll make me choke on my own vomit if I have to deal with said something.

 

I dislike Windows, haven't had it on one of my own PCs for years. I love my Microsoft mouse. The love I have for my mouse does not diminish my dislike of Windows.

 

Seems like everyone has to be on a sliding scale nowadays with two options. Have a deep love for something or straight up pure hatred. The mere concept of having balanced opinions triggers people, eh.

[JZStudios]

1 hour ago, IdlePX said:

@JZStudios

Different shades of grey... *Shrugs*

 

Not weak. I can dislike something without having a deeply embedded hatred of something that'll make me choke on my own vomit if I have to deal with said something.

 

I dislike Windows, haven't had it on one of my own PCs for years. I love my Microsoft mouse. The love I have for my mouse does not diminish my dislike of Windows.

 

Seems like everyone has to be on a sliding scale nowadays with two options. Have a deep love for something or straight up pure hatred. The mere concept of having balanced opinions triggers people, eh.

That's completely different. Now you're the one with a reading comprehension problem. The guy literally said he doesn't want to give Epic money. Not liking a product doesn't mean boycotting that company or brand. He's boycotting Epic, stating he won't give them money, and then immediately turning around and giving them money.

 

Saying you personally don't like Windows (Not MS, which is an important factor because you're specifically isolating a singular product, not the entire company) and therefore won't buy it, but will still buy other MS products is completely different from saying "I hate MS, I'm going to go buy their products to show them I hate them." One is rational, the other is idiotic. One is disliking a singular product, the other is boycotting an entire company but still giving them money.

[IdlePX]

@JZStudios

Did I run over your cat or something? Or are you usually this angry? Haha.

 

Please go back and read the first line of the post you quoted. Again, I'll repeat myself for you. Because you're missing the point.

 

Actively reduce

 

Actively reduce. Reduce. Say it with me, reduce.

 

That's not the some as boycott. I can not install the Epic launcher or buy Epic games and reduce as much money as I can give them. Using Unreal made games sucks, but I feel enough Epic towards epic to spite them every penny of possible.

 

Different shades of grey.

 

OK, a better example. I live in the Scottish Highlands. I have a a tesco on my doorstep. An asda 5 mile in the other direction. Then a morrisons and Iceland 40 mile away in Inverness.

 

I hate tesco, don't really like asda, but consider them better than tesco. I like morrisons and Iceland.

 

Every two to three months we make a trip to Inverness and get shopping from Morrisons and Iceland, along with stuff from the pet shop and B&M.

 

In the in-between weeks, if we needodd bits like cheese or milk, we get it from Asda. Despite Asda being further away than Tesco, and despite the fact we don't really like Asda.

 

I'm not driving for 80 mile total just to get some odds and ends. Tescos did a good job of wrecking small business in my area, which is low population as is.

 

There's an example of using a brand I dislike while actively reducing money given to them.

 

I have a feel you're still going to come back and call me idiotic, but eh. I'm not sure I can make my point clearer.

[PineyCreek]

I personally don't care one way or the other, but I hated even having Origin installed on the computer, and that goes at least...100x for anything related to Ubisoft and Uplay.  I like having my games ideally in one library unless they're my own physical copies.  Aside from that, I know eventually most or all the games I want on PC will come to Steam, and even if they're delayed they will be cheaper when they launch later, and cheaper still during sales.  I have more games than time so I have no burning drive to grab an Epic Exclusive.

 

Unless they make a genuine new One Must Fall or Tyrian.  Then I'll consider it.

[Bramimond]

Because exclusives are cancer and not actually competition. It's not competition if you have a monopoly on the thing people want. That's why I don't have Epic, don't have Steam, don't have Netflix, don't have Prime, etc. etc. etc.

 

Because exclusives are cancer and not actually competition.

 

 

In a perfect free market world we'd have dozens of shops, each with a complete library of everything.

It used to be movie studios only released their movies in their own cinemas, but eventually this practice was outlawed. I'm hoping the same will happen for internet shops. Until then,... well.

[JZStudios]

7 hours ago, IdlePX said:

@JZStudios

Did I run over your cat or something? Or are you usually this angry? Haha.

I'm not angry at all. I'm having a very calm discussion. I would also never own a cat.

 

You also started by saying this;

"Ignoring the other two points in my post above yours and just looking at one, Tim Sweeney. The man's a blistering thunder-twunt. My desire to not give people and companies I do not like money, is a good reason for me to avoid Epic. Seems to me a lot of other folks feel the same way. "

 

Which sounds like a boycott, combined with the fact that you refuse to use it. Seems like you might occasionally go to Tesco, but won't ever use Epic. There's also other peoples consideration going on here who are literally calling for boycotting Epic. Otherwise, for your argument to make sense you would buy most games on Steam and then buy exclusives on Epic because they can't be obtained through Steam. But you don't. You're boycotting Epic and refuse to use it. So your own argument is used against you because the examples you give don't line up. Buying most games on Steam is preferring Steam, but I still bought Burnout Paradise on Origin because it's the only way to get it. If I didn't want to support EA I wouldn't buy the game at all.

 

[IdlePX]

@JZStudios Le sigh, I'm not talking about other people boycotting Epic, I was talking about my own personal experience. 

 

I certainly do not shop from Tesco, as on the sliding scale of companies I hate, they're well down the bottom end.

 

With regards to my comments on Tim Sweeney, the man is a blistering thunder-twunt, and if I can avoid giving him money, I do. It's really very simple. I make sure he gets the least amount of my money as possible. 

 

I'm sorry to say, your idea of absolute black and white extremes does not even remotely match my view of the real world. I can only end this by saying I'm genuinely baffled by people assuming folks have to take extreme stances of flat out boycott for companies they don't like. 

[JZStudios]

1 hour ago, IdlePX said:

@JZStudios Le sigh, I'm not talking about other people boycotting Epic, I was talking about my own personal experience. 

 

I certainly do not shop from Tesco, as on the sliding scale of companies I hate, they're well down the bottom end.

 

With regards to my comments on Tim Sweeney, the man is a blistering thunder-twunt, and if I can avoid giving him money, I do. It's really very simple. I make sure he gets the least amount of my money as possible. 

 

I'm sorry to say, your idea of absolute black and white extremes does not even remotely match my view of the real world. I can only end this by saying I'm genuinely baffled by people assuming folks have to take extreme stances of flat out boycott for companies they don't like. 

Shifting goal posts. It's not a black and white view, it's people saying they're going to boycott and refuse to give a company money and then giving them money. Preferring a product over another is fine, but you're saying you don't want to give Epic money, so you're going to keep buying their games. It's a weak argument for not using EGS. Otherwise, you would just say "I prefer other platforms, thus am not interested in this one" rather than "I don't want to give them money, I'll buy their products."

 

I can't fathom why you think that's a black and white view. And then you say that you refuse to support Tesco, and won't buy anything there. Which, again, sounds to me like a boycott, and again, further invalidates your own argument. So far your counter arguments for it not being a boycott, are what could only be transcribed as boycotts. Any other rational mind that isn't black and white wouldn't give two shits that Tim Sweeney is a chucklefuck and just buy their product wherever they like, or prefer. But every instance you've shown has stated a boycott, followed by saying it's not a boycott. "I refuse to shop at Tesco. I'll buy their products to prevent them from getting my money."

[Darth Wilhelm]

On 3/17/2020 at 1:55 PM, Yogi_DaBear221 said:

   Why do people avoid Epic Games like the plague? Like I mean its kind of messy but I mean I'm all for getting some free games. Like I've got sooooo many more games than I had before. Like am I missing some big scandal? I know they were doing something with like Unreal Engine and the Devs that use it but, I don't know that it was a bad thing was it?

A lack of features we see as common, such as reviews, or even a cart (bear in mind I'm not really up to date on this)

As well as Exclusivity BS, like Metro Exodus being made exclusive to Epic barely a week before it's initial launch.

[LamoidZombieDog]

On 3/17/2020 at 1:55 PM, Yogi_DaBear221 said:

   Why do people avoid Epic Games like the plague? Like I mean its kind of messy but I mean I'm all for getting some free games. Like I've got sooooo many more games than I had before. Like am I missing some big scandal? I know they were doing something with like Unreal Engine and the Devs that use it but, I don't know that it was a bad thing was it?

they just suck.

i paid 60$ for spintires, and another 30 for basically just an exact copy of the game, both on steam. they just announced they are making a spintires 2 which i want so badly, but its on epic, and i will never give my money to epic, 

[RonnieOP]

On 3/20/2020 at 4:02 AM, Bramimond said:

Because exclusives are cancer and not actually competition. It's not competition if you have a monopoly on the thing people want. That's why I don't have Epic, don't have Steam, don't have Netflix, don't have Prime, etc. etc. etc.

 

Because exclusives are cancer and not actually competition.

 

 

In a perfect free market world we'd have dozens of shops, each with a complete library of everything.

It used to be movie studios only released their movies in their own cinemas, but eventually this practice was outlawed. I'm hoping the same will happen for internet shops. Until then,... well.

Exclusives do not negate competition. 

 

 

[Bramimond]

@RonnieOP Yes. Yes, they do.

 

You cannot compete with a monopoly. If you want to buy [Game] and only [Shop] has [Game], then [Shop] is a monopoly and not in competition with anyone else in regards to selling [Game].

[RonnieOP]

2 hours ago, Bramimond said:

@RonnieOP Yes. Yes, they do.

 

You cannot compete with a monopoly. If you want to buy [Game] and only [Shop] has [Game], then [Shop] is a monopoly and not in competition with anyone else in regards to selling [Game].

Having exclusives does not make you a monopoly...

 

By your logic every game console and launcher is a monopoly because they all have some exclusives (xbox, ps4, epic, steam, ea, blizzard, etc).

 

So are you saying we have like 6 mononpolys in pc gaming? Because that doesnt sound like a monopoly at all.

[Bramimond]

@RonnieOP

If you want game X and can only buy it from vendor A, vendor A has a monopoly on game X. That's how it works. We have lots of monopolies concerning intellectual properties around. Netflix is one. Prime is one, too. So is Steam. And lots of others.

 

If you want to buy sugar, you can choose between multiple suppliers who have to compete with each other. If you want to buy Fortnite you can buy it from Epic, from Epic or from Epic, because Epic has a monopoly on Fortnite. There's no competition going on in selling you Fortnite. Epic doesn't have to fix their store because you are shit out of luck if you want to buy Fortnite. You can buy it from them or you can not buy it at all.

 

That's why exclusives are cancer that destroy competition.

[WereCatf]

On 3/21/2020 at 6:31 AM, valdyrgramr said:

I'm not a huge fan of Valve, CDProjectRed, or any of these companies putting out  these DRM store front launchers of bs.

Um, CDPR doesn't use DRM. I mean, it's the same company that runs GOG.

[RonnieOP]

20 minutes ago, Bramimond said:

@RonnieOP

If you want game X and can only buy it from vendor A, vendor A has a monopoly on game X. That's how it works. We have lots of monopolies concerning intellectual properties around. Netflix is one. Prime is one, too. So is Steam. And lots of others.

 

If you want to buy sugar, you can choose between multiple suppliers who have to compete with each other. If you want to buy Fortnite you can buy it from Epic, from Epic or from Epic, because Epic has a monopoly on Fortnite. There's no competition going on in selling you Fortnite. Epic doesn't have to fix their store because you are shit out of luck if you want to buy Fortnite. You can buy it from them or you can not buy it at all.

 

That's why exclusives are cancer that destroy competition.

You think a single game has anything to do with competition?

 

You can have exclusives and still have competition....thats not even debatable.

 

Theres competition right now between steam and epic even though they both have exclusives.

 

And its great for us and devs. Steam now actually has to start working to stay ahead. Devs get more money (Control is a game that only broke even because of the deal with epic for example. Had it been on steam they wouldve lost over ten million) and we get better deals as consumers.

 

 

 

 

[WereCatf]

3 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I count gog and gog galaxy in that category as a launcher/store where I have to get my games digitally on PC only.

I don't follow. Is your problem with digital downloads, or that the app is both a launcher and a store?

[WereCatf]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Both.  I don't own the game, I have to go back to their sw or site to get my game, and that is what DRM is.   Forced to go back to them digitally in order to get the installers in some way is basically DRM.  They're not selling me a physical copy of the games, and they're forcing me to be dependent on them to get the installers.   The only difference with GOG is that you're not forced to use their application, but you still have to go to their website to get the installers.   It's not like you're getting physical media.   That's controlling how I get the SW in a way that's not much different than how the others do it, thus DRM.

Um, you can download the installers and store them wherever you like, so you don't actually have to get the installers from GOG more than once. Just like when you buy a physical copy of a game: you get a physical copy from a store once, then you store it wherever you like.

[WereCatf]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

Actually, you can't store them whereever you like thanks to licensing aka more DRM that's out of their control.  Which again, is DRM and not a physical copy.  I can store the physical copy wherever I like.

You can. There is nothing stopping you from saving the installer on your NAS, your phone, burning to a DVD or a BluRay, or even punchcards from the 70's.

[WereCatf]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

I can't let my friend borrow a copy, and do all the wonders I can with physical media.

You can. Hell, you can actually make physical media out of a digital download by storing it on a physical media!

 

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Also, what happens when these stores get shut down and eventually you can't get the games anymore?

If you're worried about that, see what I just wrote above!

 

3 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

What if I lost the installer and have no access to the net?

Same reply as above.

 

3 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

What if their store goes down and I want a copy?

Same reply as above.

[WereCatf]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

And, backups aren't a perfect solution nor do they have resell value if you're a collector.   Cloud storage can go down, and NASes fail all the time.  I can't really put it on punch cards either.   Which leaves me to drives that can fail due to wear and tear, DVDs aren't really that great in the long run due to how prone they are to scratching, and BR burning might be a solution yet that's only for me.

You do realize you're arguing against physical copies now, even though you just said you want physical copies? There is no difference between a physical copy you made and a physical copy you bought other than the fact that you can't sell the one you made yourself. That's the one, meaningful difference. Everything else is just you grasping at strawmans, trying to find literally anything to complain about.

 

Anyways, I'm gonna quit it here. I have zero interest in continuing to argue about strawmen.

[Yeroh]

I just hate the fact that every single company nowadays is making me install additional bloatware I neither want nor need.

 

I mean, I get it. Companies don't want to pay Valve a substantial amount of money for merely distributing their game, especially when we're talking about big AAA titles that are likely to make a lot of money. I just want to have the option to simply go to a publisher's website, pay for the game I want and install only that. I don't want to customize my Origin profile, manage my Uplay gold access subscription or do whatever in the Epic Games Store community. All of this is needlessly added bloat they're adding to justify the existence of their garbage software. And every single publisher that jumps onto this deserves to be shunned for it, until someone manages to justify the existence of their store by actually providing genuine value.

[Yeroh]

5 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

The entire point of licensing/DRM/etc is to fight piracy hence why they gave up on physical media.   They're honestly just pissing people off with it actually giving them money.  I just love it when I have to dedicate a bit of my system's resources to having that bloatware in the background, and even a second layer of it in the game itself, like Denuvo.   <.<

DRM existed before game stores and of course it could just be integrated into the game. As much as I understand that piracy can be a legitimate concern, it's not a valid reason as to why I would have to install all of these additional applications.

[Bramimond]

 

19 hours ago, RonnieOP said:

You think a single game has anything to do with competition?

Yes, it's fundamentally impossible to have competition if you can't buy the same product from different vendors. If you can get a product only from one vendor, that vendor has a monopoly. Your choice is to either buy from this vendor or not buy this product at all, hence no competition for him if he wants to sell the product.  As a consumer you can't switch vendors for the product, so the vendor doesn't have to compete with other vendors on things like service or price.