NN was repealed, nothing happened. Did a single content creator apologize for their fearmongering?

[AngryBeaver]

Lets see..

 

After the repeal all of the major carriers split their "unlimited plans" into tiers that either throttle your speeds or throttle certain services like video to only run at a certain resolution.

 

Some of the carriers started to take more control of your data for example forcing their DNS down your throat if you choose to use their device. They also are actually making changes so anyone that doesn't rent their modem ends up paying more (in the event they actually use the internet connection they paid for).

 

We are seeing a lot more soft capping of data so that carriers can charge overage fees. Mind you it has been proven in the way of cable co's that they are making 97% profit (or better) on the internet side of things.

 

We have also seen (outside of the NSA) a lot more collecting and reselling of our information. 

 

Lastly, the monopolies are just as big and powerful as ever. Now they have less checks and balances placed on them and the ones that suffer are the citizens like you and me.

[TheLongWay]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

Ooh name calling.  Without support even.  

Actually it’s existed lots of places.  It’s just never done it for very long.  It happened in both France and Russia very very briefly for example.  Iirc the attempt in France was known as “the terror”. 100% puts capitalism isn’t stable. At all.  Incredibly unstable even.  It usually collapses into totalitarianism of some sort, though sometimes it just collapses utterly and disappears.  Often in as little as months.  

Are you serious? The reign of terror in France where the state controlled everything was 100 percent capitalism?

You think the state controlling everything. like in France or Russia at various times, is capitalism? I am sorry you are insane.

Like, more insane than anti vaxxers. That is some flat eather level stuff. 

[TheLongWay]

3 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Lets see..

 

After the repeal all of the major carriers split their "unlimited plans" into tiers that either throttle your speeds or throttle certain services like video to only run at a certain resolution.

 

Some of the carriers started to take more control of your data for example forcing their DNS down your throat if you choose to use their device. They also are actually making changes so anyone that doesn't rent their modem ends up paying more (in the event they actually use the internet connection they paid for).

 

We are seeing a lot more soft capping of data so that carriers can charge overage fees. Mind you it has been proven in the way of cable co's that they are making 97% profit (or better) on the internet side of things.

 

We have also seen (outside of the NSA) a lot more collecting and reselling of our information. 

 

Lastly, the monopolies are just as big and powerful as ever. Now they have less checks and balances placed on them and the ones that suffer are the citizens like you and me.

FINALLY some actual stuff I can look into. Thank you. I will do that tomorrow.

Outside the monopoly point. If you read my initial post, to which I linked on the top of this one, you can see how the government made it as bad as it is now.

[Bitter]

50 minutes ago, TheLongWay said:

Sure, that is why big companies usually love regulation so much.

 

Which 3 sectors of the economy to Americans complain about the most?

-healthcare

-education

-banking

 

Guess which 3 are the most regulated?

 

 

Are you seriously trying to say that how much 'people complain' about something is directly tied to how heavily regulated it is? Know what else is heavily regulated, nuclear power. People complain about that. Should it be deregulated? Would you like a nuclear power plant near your home with no government oversight and just a 'promise' from the company running it that it'll be fine?

 

Also, since you don't live in the USA but for a few months a year you don't deal with problems like...

Predatory lending

Predatory colleges

Individual health insurance, pay $350+ a month and still have to pay for...medicine, doctor visits, imaging, specialists, laboratory work, casts, assistive devices, bags of IV saline, etc. With insurance a trip to the ER for a broken arm can cost $1000+ even when you're in network. If you're out of network you could be on the hook for $10,000 or more. If you break your arm in Germany and go to the hospital emergency, what does it cost you?

 

In Germany everything is HIGHLY regulated, your banks, your health care, and your educational system. You have some of the best education and health insurance in the world and I don't hear about your banks failing or being conglomerated into a handful of large companies. You simply lack the American perspective to understand and deal with American problems.

 

And additionally there are plenty of times when a rural area of the USA is simply refused utility services or the cost of running them is incredibly burdensome. Say you inherit some land and want to build a house on it, it's out in the middle of a corn field down a gravel road in Nebraska. It might cost $200,000 to get electrical poles strung up to have power connected to the home from the last pole 1/2 mile away. AND you still need to pay an electrical contractor to run the line from the pole to your house. AND you cannot amortize that cost into your monthly bill to pay over time. I doubt this is a problem in Germany. Remember friend, our country is very very large and some areas are very very sparsely populated.

 

The current population density of Germany in 2020 is 234.31 people per square kilometer, Germany 2020 population is estimated at 83,783,942

The current population density of U.S. in 2020 is 33.67 people per square kilometer, the United States 2020 population is estimated at 331,002,651

 

We are a BIG country with BIG country problems, you can't compare a little country like Germany with it's little country problems.

[AngryBeaver]

2 minutes ago, TheLongWay said:

FINALLY some actual stuff I can look into. Thank you. I will do that tomorrow.

Outside the monopoly point. If you read my initial post, to which I linked on the top of this one, you can see how the government made it as bad as it is now.

I mean our government is just as ignorant. We gave the large ISP's billions of tax payer dollars to help them build out their networks. Then what did they do pretty much as soon as they got these huge grants from the government? They increased prices.

 

It doesn't stop there though. All of these infrastructure upgrades they were given money for... never actually happened. Some of them started, but never actually finished and none of them hit the timeline the government was looking for. The goal was to get the average internet speed up in the US and also increase the amount of the population that could get service. 

[Bombastinator]

4 minutes ago, TheLongWay said:

Are you serious? The reign of terror in France where the state controlled everything was 100 percent capitalism?

You think the state controlling everything. like in France or Russia at various times, is capitalism? I am sorry you are insane.

Like, more insane than anti vaxxers. That is some flat eather level stuff. 

Yep.  Exactly.  Or almost exactly except the bit you have backwards.  That’s the way of these things generally.

The theory they had was much like the current trump theory of no regulation.  The difference was they added “the terror” the idea was that people abusing the system, which in this case would be the ISPs that used their monopoly control of what can and cannot be transmitted on the internet would be publicly excecuted.  The idea was that fear would keep them in check hence the name “the terror”. It wasn’t an epithet thought up by detractors.  It was the actual idea.  The government named themselves the terror on purpose.

They wound up excecuting most everyone almost randomly because the ability to legally murder someone turns out to be handy.  It worked so poorly that napoleon was regarded as a massive hero for bringing monarchy back.

[JoostinOnline]

Quote

NN was repealed, nothing happened.

 

This is incredibly ignorant. You either don't actually pay your Internet bill, or you happen to live in one of the few areas with decent competition.

[TheLongWay]

4 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Are you seriously trying to say that how much 'people complain' about something is directly tied to how heavily regulated it is? Know what else is heavily regulated, nuclear power. People complain about that. Should it be deregulated? Would you like a nuclear power plant near your home with no government oversight and just a 'promise' from the company running it that it'll be fine?

 

Also, since you don't live in the USA but for a few months a year you don't deal with problems like...

Predatory lending

Predatory colleges

Individual health insurance, pay $350+ a month and still have to pay for...medicine, doctor visits, imaging, specialists, laboratory work, casts, assistive devices, bags of IV saline, etc. With insurance a trip to the ER for a broken arm can cost $1000+ even when you're in network. If you're out of network you could be on the hook for $10,000 or more. If you break your arm in Germany and go to the hospital emergency, what does it cost you?

 

In Germany everything is HIGHLY regulated, your banks, your health care, and your educational system. You have some of the best education and health insurance in the world and I don't hear about your banks failing or being conglomerated into a handful of large companies. You simply lack the American perspective to understand and deal with American problems.

 

And additionally there are plenty of times when a rural area of the USA is simply refused utility services or the cost of running them is incredibly burdensome. Say you inherit some land and want to build a house on it, it's out in the middle of a corn field down a gravel road in Nebraska. It might cost $200,000 to get electrical poles strung up to have power connected to the home from the last pole 1/2 mile away. AND you still need to pay an electrical contractor to run the line from the pole to your house. AND you cannot amortize that cost into your monthly bill to pay over time. I doubt this is a problem in Germany. Remember friend, our country is very very large and some areas are very very sparsely populated.

 

The current population density of Germany in 2020 is 234.31 people per square kilometer, Germany 2020 population is estimated at 83,783,942

The current population density of U.S. in 2020 is 33.67 people per square kilometer, the United States 2020 population is estimated at 331,002,651

 

We are a BIG country with BIG country problems, you can't compare a little country like Germany with it's little country problems.

Classic Straw Man.

You have no answer to my question, then you switch it up.

The energy industry as a whole could use some deregulation. And no, we would not be building nuclear power plants in residential neighborhoods.

 

So I ask again.

Why is that the things that seem to go wrong the most just happen to be the ones with the most regulation?

 

Germany is relatively close to the US in terms of economic freedom. You can thank the Federal Reserve for your banking crisis. Oh, and really dumb regulation on branch banking that absolutely murdered your banks. Canada did not have that regulation the banks were mostly ok. 

If you own land that is so far removed from civilisation, tough shit. Not my problem. That is why you got it for almost nothing.

 

 

Oh, and German healthcare is great, unless you have to use it. Want to see a specialist? Wait 6 months. But hey, at least it's free lol

 

 

[TheLongWay]

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Yep.  Exactly.  Or almost exactly except the bit you have backwards.  That’s the way of these things generally.

The theory they had was much like the current trump theory of no regulation.  The difference was they added “the terror” the idea was that people abusing the system, which in this case would be the ISPs that used their monopoly control of what can and cannot be transmitted on the internet would be publicly excecuted.  The idea was that fear would keep them in check hence the name “the terror”. It wasn’t an epithet thought up by detractors.  It was the actual idea.  The government named themselves the terror on purpose.

They wound up excecuting most everyone almost randomly because the ability to legally murder someone turns out to be handy.  It worked so poorly that napoleon was regarded as a massive hero for bringing monarchy back.

Okay, you are a flat eather level loon.

Capitalism means: Two parties can form a voluntary contract without unwanted third party interference.

During the Reign of Terror the State controlled every aspect of life. 

"The state having total power is capitalism" is even dumber than "the earth is flat" 

[ARikozuM]

6 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

 

This is incredibly ignorant. You either don't actually pay your Internet bill, or you happen to live in one of the few areas with decent competition.

That or he's one of the people that thinks evolution and regulation of genes happens overnight. 

[Bitter]

5 minutes ago, TheLongWay said:

Classic Straw Man.

You have no answer to my question, then you switch it up.

The energy industry as a whole could use some deregulation. And no, we would not be building nuclear power plants in residential neighborhoods.

 

So I ask again.

Why is that the things that seem to go wrong the most just happen to be the ones with the most regulation?

 

Germany is relatively close to the US in terms of economic freedom. You can thank the Federal Reserve for your banking crisis. Oh, and really dumb regulation on branch banking that absolutely murdered your banks. Canada did not have that regulation the banks were mostly ok. 

If you own land that is so far removed from civilisation, tough shit. Not my problem. That is why you got it for almost nothing.

 

 

Oh, and German healthcare is great, unless you have to use it. Want to see a specialist? Wait 6 months. But hey, at least it's free lol

 

 

You changed the topic to

Healthcare

Education

Banking

 

Or did you forget already?

1 hour ago, TheLongWay said:

Sure, that is why big companies usually love regulation so much.

 

Which 3 sectors of the economy to Americans complain about the most?

-healthcare

-education

-banking

 

Guess which 3 are the most regulated?

 

 

 

And you're really saying 'tough shit your country is so large'? Again, you lack the American perspective to understand American problems. Rent and land prices around metropolitan areas are simply out of reach for many Americans, living in a rural area is all they can afford. Again, that's not a problem in Germany since your rural areas are still closer to larger metropolitan areas.

[TheLongWay]

1 minute ago, Bitter said:

You changed the topic to

Healthcare

Education

Banking

 

Or did you forget already?

 

 

Do you have an answer for that though?

Is it just a weird coincidence?

[Bitter]

1 minute ago, TheLongWay said:

Do you have an answer for that though?

Is it just a weird coincidence?

Those are three areas of society that everyone interacts with on a regular basis and often cost large amounts of money, simple as that. People also complain about the weather, politics, cost of housing, cost of food, quality of infrastructure, etc. People complain about many things they often interact with. Correlation is not causation, it's merely conjecture.

[TheLongWay]

4 minutes ago, Bitter said:

 

 

And you're really saying 'tough shit your country is so large'? Again, you lack the American perspective to understand American problems. Rent and land prices around metropolitan areas are simply out of reach for many Americans, living in a rural area is all they can afford. Again, that's not a problem in Germany since your rural areas are still closer to larger metropolitan areas.

And most rural areas would have not the slightest issue getting internet.

[Bitter]

Just now, TheLongWay said:

And most rural areas would have not the slightest issue getting internet.

Got proof?

[TheLongWay]

Just now, Bitter said:

Those are three areas of society that everyone interacts with on a regular basis and often cost large amounts of money, simple as that. People also complain about the weather, politics, cost of housing, cost of food, quality of infrastructure, etc. People complain about many things they often interact with. Correlation is not causation, it's merely conjecture.

Hm. Is it also a coincidence then that these are the areas where prices have exploded over the last 40 years? Are these prices also just subjective feelings?

And no, it is not merely causation.Because this trend exists in dozens of countries. And housing prices were not so insane before the government took a major role in it.

The same goes for higher education.

 

[TheLongWay]

Just now, Bitter said:

Got proof?

Please prove how things would behave in a hypothetical scenario that is not going to happen.

 

How can I do that? I'm just saying that, if we allow markets to work, things get done.

Like a smartphone for 200 USD that kicks the ass of high end phones from a few years ago.

 

[Bitter]

Just now, TheLongWay said:

Hm. Is it also a coincidence then that these are the areas where prices have exploded over the last 40 years? Are these prices also just subjective feelings?

And no, it is not merely causation.Because this trend exists in dozens of countries. And housing prices were not so insane before the government took a major role in it.

The same goes for higher education.

 

Prove it then. You're making the argument that regulation makes everything worse, prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Cite sources, link academic papers, show research.

[TheLongWay]

Just now, Bitter said:

Prove it then. You're making the argument that regulation makes everything worse, prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Cite sources, link academic papers, show research.

There are papers on both sides, obviously.

Sometimes, a little bit of common sense helps.

Imagine if the opposite were true.

Imagine if these 3 areas were not regulated at all.

And the prices behaved in the exact same manner. Would you not just say "this proves capitalism does not work"

Of course you would, don't lie.

 

The economy is a complex system. You can say just about anything if you torture the data long enough.

 

OR you can employ some common sense.

 

[AngryBeaver]

7 minutes ago, TheLongWay said:

Hm. Is it also a coincidence then that these are the areas where prices have exploded over the last 40 years? Are these prices also just subjective feelings?

And no, it is not merely causation.Because this trend exists in dozens of countries. And housing prices were not so insane before the government took a major role in it.

The same goes for higher education.

 

The price of houses and everything else for that matter has nothing to do with the government. It has to do with a population that is increasing and a finite amount of land to go around. Yes, there is still a lot of undeveloped land, but buying some cheap land like that comes with costs as mentioned earlier that are far higher than just living closer to a metro and paying the high prices. Then you also have to look at inflation, which has gone up drastically over the last decade, and the fact the value of the dollar declines as our deficit increases.

 

So in that scenario the only real thing you can blame the government for is the deficit.

[Bitter]

2 minutes ago, TheLongWay said:

There are papers on both sides, obviously.

Sometimes, a little bit of common sense helps.

Imagine if the opposite were true.

Imagine if these 3 areas were not regulated at all.

And the prices behaved in the exact same manner. Would you not just say "this proves capitalism does not work"

Of course you would, don't lie.

 

The economy is a complex system. You can say just about anything if you torture the data long enough.

 

OR you can employ some common sense.

 

So show some of the papers you're referring to then. I cited sources and linked articles, why can't you? Common sense would say that you can't/won't because you don't have any, don't you think?

[TheLongWay]

Just now, AngryBeaver said:

The price of houses and everything else for that matter has nothing to do with the government. It has to do with a population that is increasing and a finite amount of land to go around. Yes, there is still a lot of undeveloped land, but buying some cheap land like that comes with costs as mentioned earlier that are far higher than just living closer to a metro and paying the high prices. Then you also have to look at inflation, which has gone up drastically over the last decade, and the fact the value of the dollar declines as our deficit increases.

Weird how housing prices were stable over all the decades before the government came in.

And yes, I already factored out inflation. Itis not rocket science.

The dollar is actually not doing badly at all, even though deficits have been high over the last 20 years.

 

Did education also become so much more expensive because you ran out of space?

[Donut417]

5 hours ago, TheLongWay said:

Nothing happened.

It was shown that both Comcast and AT&T cut back on network upgrades. So.. yeah something happened. 

[TheLongWay]

8 minutes ago, Bitter said:

So show some of the papers you're referring to then. I cited sources and linked articles, why can't you? Common sense would say that you can't/won't because you don't have any, don't you think?

You linked articles denying the link between government regulation and housing prices ging up? Suuuuuure

Some very short and simple ones:

Measuring the effects of monetary policy on house prices and the economy John C Williams1

https://www.bis.org/publ/bppdf/bispap88_keynote.pdf

 

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/what-costs-more-what-costs-less-magic-boxes-and-the-modern-economy-a8ed3fdfac6d

Look at this chart. 

 

You people will defend the government against anything. It does not matter what the data looks like.

If the facts were the reverse you would be screaming for the heads of capitalists.

Bootlickers like you sicken me. 

 

 

[Bitter]

5 minutes ago, TheLongWay said:

You linked articles denying the link between government regulation and housing prices ging up? Suuuuuure

Some very short and simple ones:

Measuring the effects of monetary policy on house prices and the economy John C Williams1

https://www.bis.org/publ/bppdf/bispap88_keynote.pdf

A simple model for study of the determination of the price level and the interaction of monetary and fiscal policy
Christopher A. Sims 

I linked articles and a paper about throttling after the repeal of NN, which you say doesn't happen/doesn't exist. Throttling that would have been regulated and illegal under NN. You knew that though and grabbed for low hanging fruit to bait another argument. Making text bigger doesn't make your point more or less valid, it just causes you to appear like a screaming child.

 

Also I'm not entirely sure that a keynote address for a meeting of BIS is an unbiased or even credible source.

Quote

The Bank for International Settlements (BIS) is an international financial institution^[2] owned by central banks which "fosters international monetary and financial cooperation and serves as a bank for central banks".^[3]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_for_International_Settlements

 

That's like Technet arguing against Right to Repair.