NN was repealed, nothing happened. Did a single content creator apologize for their fearmongering?

[TheLongWay]

Years ago, I laid out my case about NN here (

) and I have to say my points held up very well.

 

Tons of youtubers of all kinds, and of course also the LTT team, were warning of the end of the internet as we know it. Nothing happened.

 

Suddenly, they just pretend it was never a thing, and ignore that they made their clickbait videos for months and months.

 

Am I the only one who finds this rather weak?

 

It is okay to be wrong, but at least accept that you were.

 

[Lurick]

You act like the battle is over when the FCC is being forced to reconsider their NN repeal and rehear arguments WITHOUT stuffing the ballot box so to speak. You also seem to think that everyone was saying that day 1 ISPs were going to magically start being evil again. They are going to slowly work their bullcrap back into the system over time so consumers don't get shocked at the crap they are pulling until it's too late.

[Yoinkerman]

"I'm so proud to argue against my own self interest"

[Lurick]

I also, in addition to the above, would like you to tell me what magic paradise came rolling out from ISPs who claimed up down left right and center that as soon as NN was gone they would be free to invest more in infrastructure. You also fail to realize that about a dozen or more states have tried or have passed their own version of Net Neutrality. After NN was repealed no ISP started investing more and many have started to invest LESS, which is the opposite of what they claimed would happen.

 

As of 2018:

Quote

"Figures USTelecom posted in February, for example, show Verizon cutting its investment by 3.4% from 2017 to 2018. And the 3.9% increase shown for AT&T (T) vanishes if you subtract the $1.2 billion the firm spent in 2018 on the government-backed FirstNet emergency-responder network. And last week, AT&T Communications CEO John Donovan told attendees at an investor conference that the firm would slow its fiber build-out."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/net-neutrality-fcc-184307416.html

[ARikozuM]

Socialize the towers and lines. Let anyone join in the market without having to pay extreme amounts of bureaucratic nonsense. 

[Lurick]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

Socialize the towers and lines. Let anyone join in the market without having to pay extreme amounts of bureaucratic nonsense. 

I'd settle for stopping ISPs from buying laws to keep out the competition first.

[TheLongWay]

13 minutes ago, Yoinkerman said:

"I'm so proud to argue against my own self interest"

That is the point. NN is NOT in my own interest. 

[TheLongWay]

18 minutes ago, Lurick said:

You act like the battle is over when the FCC is being forced to reconsider their NN repeal and rehear arguments WITHOUT stuffing the ballot box so to speak. You also seem to think that everyone was saying that day 1 ISPs were going to magically start being evil again. They are going to slowly work their bullcrap back into the system over time so consumers don't get shocked at the crap they are pulling until it's too late.

It has certainly been a while. When will you admit you were wrong? Give me a timeline. Otherwise, you can always say "in the future" X will happen. 

[Lurick]

Just now, TheLongWay said:

It has certainly been a while. When will you admit you were wrong? Give me a timeline. Otherwise, you can always say "in the future" X will happen. 

Let me get out my crystal ball while you sit there enjoying less investment because of the repeal of NN, oh right, you're not impacted because your not in this country.

[PlayStation 2]

Net Neutrality was like the Patriot Act: it played on fears to control something, in this case, giving more control of the internet to the government, wrapped in a candy-coated shell with an appealing name.

[TheLongWay]

1 minute ago, Lurick said:

Let me get out my crystal ball while you sit there enjoying less investment because of the repeal of NN, oh right, you're not impacted because your not in this country.

No, I want something specific. We were promised all sorts of horrible things. Paying extra to use Netflix and so on. Literally not a single one of those predictions has come true. Saying "It will happen at some unspecified time" is just a weak excuse.

I live in the US for about 3 months every year. 

[Lurick]

Just now, TheLongWay said:

No, I want something specific. We were promised all sorts of horrible things. Paying extra to use Netflix and so on. Literally not a single one of those predictions has come true. Saying "It will happen at some unspecified time" is just a weak excuse.

I live in the US for about 3 months every year. 

Because we can always see into the future to give an exact date. Demanding such is a super weak argument. It's something that consumers have to constantly monitor because it's not going to happen all at once so stop demanding some magical date where things go to hell. The ISPs are smarter than that.

[Lurick]

2 minutes ago, TheLongWay said:

No, I want something specific. We were promised all sorts of horrible things. Paying extra to use Netflix and so on. Literally not a single one of those predictions has come true. Saying "It will happen at some unspecified time" is just a weak excuse.

I live in the US for about 3 months every year. 

Give me a date where things will magically improve from the repeal

[TheLongWay]

4 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Because we can always see into the future to give an exact date. Demanding such is a super weak argument. It's something that consumers have to constantly monitor because it's not going to happen all at once so stop demanding some magical date where things go to hell. The ISPs are smarter than that.

Okay, so your standard is that you can make apocalyptics predictions, and then when nothing bad happens you can just say "it may happen someday" and this argument will never fail because the future is a long long time.

Sorry, that is just such a laughable standard I might have to wipe away a tear or two

 

 

When will things improve? They already did. costs are down, speeds are up. 

[Lurick]

Just now, TheLongWay said:

When will things improve? They already did. costs are down, speeds are up. 

Prove it. I want evidence that general prices as a direct result of NN's repeal went down and speeds went up. Just referencing a price and claiming it went down is irrelevant, I was direct correlation and causation analysis.

[TheLongWay]

4 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Prove it. I want evidence that general prices as a direct result of NN's repeal went down and speeds went up. Just referencing a price and claiming it went down is irrelevant, I was direct correlation and causation analysis.

Okay, so the standard for YOUR side is that at some unspecified time in the future somehing MIGHT happen, the standard for my side is that I have to prove how the change of one factor in a highly complex system contributed to an improvement in something? 

 

VERY fair buddy.

 

[Bitter]

3 minutes ago, TheLongWay said:

No, I want something specific. We were promised all sorts of horrible things. Paying extra to use Netflix and so on. Literally not a single one of those predictions has come true. Saying "It will happen at some unspecified time" is just a weak excuse.

I live in the US for about 3 months every year. 

https://wehe.meddle.mobi/papers/wehe.pdf?utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Post Blast bii-connectivity-and-tech: US carriers on blast for throttling video content | LG averts chip supply catastrophe in deal with Qualcomm | Hackers hold Texas towns ransom&utm_term=BII List Connectivity ALL

 

https://fortune.com/2018/11/08/sprint-throttling-skype-service/

 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/verizon-throttled-fire-departments-unlimited-data-during-calif-wildfire/

 

https://boingboing.net/2018/09/17/gougin-in-the-rain.html

 

Are these not cases where parts of Net Neutrality would have disallowed these practices, or is my understanding of it incorrect?

[Lurick]

Just now, TheLongWay said:

Okay, so the standard for YOUR side is that at some unspecified time in the future somehing MIGHT happen, the standard for my side is that I have to prove how the change of one factor in a highly complex system contributed to an improvement in something? 

 

VERY fair buddy.

 

Ok, then by your standards my ISP has not raised my internet speed but they have raised prices for me over the past year by $20/month.

[Fasauceome]

2 minutes ago, TheLongWay said:

Okay, so the standard for YOUR side is that at some unspecified time in the future somehing MIGHT happen, the standard for my side is that I have to prove how the change of one factor in a highly complex system contributed to an improvement in something? 

 

VERY fair buddy.

 

Go ahead and keep pretending like nothing bad has happened since the repeal

https://www.publicknowledge.org/blog/broadband-providers-are-quietly-taking-advantage-of-an-internet-without-net-neutrality-protections/

 

The amount of tone-deaf in this topic is genuinely striking. I love hearing non Americans weigh in on our political landscape.

[RonnieOP]

3 minutes ago, Bitter said:

https://wehe.meddle.mobi/papers/wehe.pdf?utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Post Blast bii-connectivity-and-tech: US carriers on blast for throttling video content | LG averts chip supply catastrophe in deal with Qualcomm | Hackers hold Texas towns ransom&utm_term=BII List Connectivity ALL

 

https://fortune.com/2018/11/08/sprint-throttling-skype-service/

 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/verizon-throttled-fire-departments-unlimited-data-during-calif-wildfire/

 

https://boingboing.net/2018/09/17/gougin-in-the-rain.html

 

Are these not cases where parts of Net Neutrality would have disallowed these practices, or is my understanding of it incorrect?

Throttling cell phone data was a thing long before net neutrality ended. So i dont think it applies.

 

Ive kinda got to side with OP on this one.

 

In my area prices went down and speeds went up. The end of NN has done nothing that i can see.

[Lurick]

4 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Throttling cell phone data was a thing long before net neutrality ended. So i dont think it applies.

 

Ive kinda got to side with OP on this one.

 

In my area prices went down and speeds went up. The end of NN has done nothing that i can see.

Depends on where you're located because, as I pointed out before at least a dozen or more states passed their own NN rules since the federal repeal which makes things more complex.

[ks13219]

Still waiting to see all the big investment your side promised.  

 

Thinking any change would show a result this fast, particularly on a hot-button issue like this, shows a real lack of understanding about the issue.  It also misunderstands the competence of the bad-actors who want to take advantage of this seismic shift in the internet--if they started right away, everyone would known why and how to fix it. If they hold off and do it slowly over a few years, everyone will be too busy playing Pokemon and wondering what the Kardashians are up to now to notice.  

[TheLongWay]

8 minutes ago, Bitter said:

https://wehe.meddle.mobi/papers/wehe.pdf?utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Post Blast bii-connectivity-and-tech: US carriers on blast for throttling video content | LG averts chip supply catastrophe in deal with Qualcomm | Hackers hold Texas towns ransom&utm_term=BII List Connectivity ALL

 

https://fortune.com/2018/11/08/sprint-throttling-skype-service/

 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/verizon-throttled-fire-departments-unlimited-data-during-calif-wildfire/

 

https://boingboing.net/2018/09/17/gougin-in-the-rain.html

 

Are these not cases where parts of Net Neutrality would have disallowed these practices, or is my understanding of it incorrect?

No speed was ever throttled before NN was repealed? What are you smoking?

 

And I did not say the US has a good system for carriers. It needs a LOT of improvement. More freedom. 

[Lurick]

Just now, kensylvia said:

Still waiting to see all the big investment your side promised.  

 

Thinking any change would show a result this fast, particularly on a hot-button issue like this, shows a real lack of understanding about the issue.  It also misunderstands the competence of the bad-actors who want to take advantage of this seismic shift in the internet--if they started right away, everyone would known why and how to fix it. If they hold off and do it slowly over a few years, everyone will be too busy playing Pokemon and wondering what the Kardashians are up to now to notice.  

This. I already posted an article which showed DECREASED investment of infrastructure and slowing down or halting of rollouts of new infra following NN's repeal, I would like OP's date on when we'll start seeing this increased investment promised.

 

 

 

 

Just now, TheLongWay said:

No speed was ever throttled before NN was repealed? What are you smoking?

Netflix was indeed throttled HEAVILY by Comcast and was one of many catalysts for NN in the first place.

[TheLongWay]

1 minute ago, kensylvia said:

Still waiting to see all the big investment your side promised.  

 

Thinking any change would show a result this fast, particularly on a hot-button issue like this, shows a real lack of understanding about the issue.  It also misunderstands the competence of the bad-actors who want to take advantage of this seismic shift in the internet--if they started right away, everyone would known why and how to fix it. If they hold off and do it slowly over a few years, everyone will be too busy playing Pokemon and wondering what the Kardashians are up to now to notice.  

Of course, the evil men with cigars had backroom meetings "We will be evil in 10 years, but not a minute before that"

I am for much more radical reform that a repeal of NN (which I laid out in my original post from 2015)