Hardware reviews do not follow warranty specs and mislead to warranty loss

[Curufinwe_wins]

19 minutes ago, jhon_tiro85 said:

Chipart has some video where they try to explain the reason why the brands make warranty so hard for the costumers in Brazil, but the things they are saying about reviewers affect costumers globally. probally not so much on USA/Canada where hardware costs proportionaly less in comparison with average income, but it`s still global

 

About the brazilian warranty, the problem is that a high volume os costumer level hardware in Brazil comes from "alternative import process", so the brand can not track/project for long term, how much they need to bonify the stores. I know that globally the total cost should be aways the same (no matter the used process) , but financial cost is very important in Brazil, because of burocracy/taxes and also U$1.00 costs R$4,50~ , 

 

On Costumer side, a regular store usually sells hardware with prices 2x or 3x higher if compared to "älternative market" where usually they offer warranty of 2/3 months and "tax discounts" .

What? I'm sorry to say I actually don't understand what you are saying here. Warranties are not processes the same around the world whatsoever. Many countries have overarching rules that supplant OEM minimums and/or force additional stipulations that they must accept warranties for.

[Curufinwe_wins]

18 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Your cars warranty can be blocked due to things like that.

 

If you buy a brand new car and use it for your job as an Uber driver you can be denied a warranty.

 

You have to read the terms of your warranty. You cant even say they are being dishonest since they give you all the documents that tell you what voids a warranty.

Warranty terms do not have unlimited power and is in many countries is highly restricted. Just as almost every EULA term is actually unenforceable. 

[ARikozuM]

29 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Your cars warranty can be blocked due to things like that.

 

If you buy a brand new car and use it for your job as an Uber driver you can be denied a warranty.

 

You have to read the terms of your warranty. You cant even say they are being dishonest since they give you all the documents that tell you what voids a warranty.

Oh, I'm sorry. Is it a car or a f#cking box on wheels?

 

Am I paying for the same car no matter where I go? 

 

Am I only allowed to use the product as the supplier intended? 

 

You cannot discern that I ran my car at 100mph unless I tell you. If the manufacturer wants me to baby the vehicle, they better take the vehicle back at end of life for recycling because apparently the vehicle is theirs not mine. 

 

You give them a inch, they'll take a mile. And they won't give it back once they do. 

 

As far as using a car for Uber, no manufacturer should be able to bar you for that. It's YOUR vehicle and YOU paid (or are paying) for it. It is YOUR vehicle at the end of the day. 

[jhon_tiro85]

11 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

What? I'm sorry to say I actually don't understand what you are saying here. Warranties are not processes the same around the world whatsoever. Many countries have overarching rules that supplant OEM minimums and/or force additional stipulations that they must accept warranties for.

i know... Brazil is included... but it`s hard to make "rules" work in a country where sellers bend the this rules all the time to make hardware popularly affordable.

i`m not defending the practice, i`m a client as well.

[Curufinwe_wins]

1 minute ago, jhon_tiro85 said:

i know... Brazil is included... but it`s hard to make "rules" work in a country where sellers bend the this rules all the time to make hardware popularly affordable.

i`m not defending the practice, i`m a client as well.

No I mean I really don't get what you were trying to say on the first quote. Evading taxation regulations shouldn't affect the ability of manufacturers to cheat consumers on warranty claims? 

[RonnieOP]

5 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Oh, I'm sorry. Is it a car or a f#cking box on wheels?

 

Am I paying for the same car no matter where I go? 

 

Am I only allowed to use the product as the supplier intended? 

 

You cannot discern that I ran my car at 100mph unless I tell you. If the manufacturer wants me to baby the vehicle, they better take the vehicle back at end of life for recycling because apparently the vehicle is theirs not mine. 

 

You give them a inch, they'll take a mile. And they won't give it back once they do. 

 

As far as using a car for Uber, no manufacturer should be able to bar you for that. It's YOUR vehicle and YOU paid (or are paying) for it. It is YOUR vehicle at the end of the day. 

Im not saying I agree with the terms. I am just saying (depending on the area of course) those are the terms and you get to read them before buying and accepting them.

 

There has to be a middle ground. Consumers cant dog the shit out of a product and just expect it to be fixed for free, and the product makers need to cover the basics of usage.

 

 

[jhon_tiro85]

2 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

No I mean I really don't get what you were trying to say on the first quote. Evading taxation regulations shouldn't affect the ability of manufacturers to cheat consumers on warranty claims? 

it affects... in this cases, the seller offer warranty on his own expenses (deducting from from it`s profit) or in some cases, he takes the cost back to his supplier.

 

I`m very sure it rarelly scales up to brand distributors (at this point i`m speaking from experience).

 

Generally, few people comes back to request warranty for low value hardware ( sd card, lan board, dvd drive etc), so it`s not 100% lost money when there is hardware fault within "flee market warranty terms"

(i hope i`m making it clear, portuguese is my first language)

[mr moose]

Sounds to me like you have a very distinct problem in Brazil with price/regulations that send people to buy through alternate avenues thus creating a situation where the manufacturers don't know or has no proof that the product you want repaired/replaced under warranty was even bought new or is genuine. 

 

This has nothing to do with reviews (or more accurately build guides as is being described) or standard warranty claims.

[jhon_tiro85]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Sounds to me like you have a very distinct problem in Brazil with price/regulations that send people to buy through alternate avenues thus creating a situation where the manufacturers don't know or has no proof that the product you want repaired/replaced under warranty was even bought new or is genuine. 

 

This has nothing to do with reviews (or more accurately build guides as is being described) or standard warranty claims.

price/regulations are a brazilian problem discussed here.

 

the omission/absence by reviewers/reviews of the fact that the use of high frequency memory can be interpreted as overcloacking by the manufacturer causing the loss of warranty, is the title/reason of the topic...

 

i can not direct the topic, i am just participating

[Curufinwe_wins]

36 minutes ago, jhon_tiro85 said:

it affects... in this cases, the seller offer warranty on his own expenses (deducting from from it`s profit) or in some cases, he takes the cost back to his supplier.

 

I`m very sure it rarelly scales up to brand distributors (at this point i`m speaking from experience).

 

Generally, few people comes back to request warranty for low value hardware ( sd card, lan board, dvd drive etc), so it`s not 100% lost money when there is hardware fault within "flee market warranty terms"

(i hope i`m making it clear, portuguese is my first language)

So if I'm understanding you... you are saying that manufacturers have additional incentives to be dicks about warranty terms because so much of the market is of questionable legality in the first place so fewer people might be willing to force the government/legal counsel to enforce their terms?

 

12 minutes ago, jhon_tiro85 said:

snip

But it isn't, and it isn't provable or demonstrable, so just don't tell them you are using XMP and they can't deny based on it.... 

[mr moose]

22 minutes ago, jhon_tiro85 said:

price/regulations are a brazilian problem discussed here.

 

the omission/absence by reviewers/reviews of the fact that the use of high frequency memory can be interpreted as overcloacking by the manufacturer causing the loss of warranty, is the title/reason of the topic...

 

i can not direct the topic, i am just participating

Your title clearly blames the reviewers for warranty loss.  The reality seems to be it has nothing to do with reviewers and everything to do with where/how you are buying your CPU's.  

[jhon_tiro85]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Your title clearly blames the reviewers for warranty loss.  The reality seems to be it has nothing to do with reviewers and everything to do with where/how you are buying your CPU's.  

Can you say for sure your RMA will be aproved on US or Canada if you install high profile memory and declare it during the warranty process? 

 

(if you do not intent to lie to the manufacturer, and the aswer is "yes", i am probably wrong about the global effect of the topic)

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, jhon_tiro85 said:

Can you say for sure your RMA will be aproved on US or Canada if you install high profile memory and declare it during the warranty process? 

What does that have to do with reviewers?  First off, why is the warranty not being upheld? is it because you overclocked it or is it because you didn't buy it through an authorized reseller and the international seller you did buy it from is either under no obligation to honor your warranty or parts get lost in postage?

 

1 minute ago, jhon_tiro85 said:

(if you do not intent to lie to the manufacturer, and the aswer is "yes", i am probably wrong about the global effect of the topic)

Which means we are back to a Brazil specific issue and not one about reviewers or manufacturer warranty.

[jhon_tiro85]

33 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

So if I'm understanding you... you are saying that manufacturers have additional incentives to be dicks about warranty terms because so much of the market is of questionable legality in the first place so fewer people might be willing to force the government/legal counsel to enforce their terms?

 

But it isn't, and it isn't provable or demonstrable, so just don't tell them you are using XMP and they can't deny based on it.... 

There is more about it, about the particularity of warranty in different countries...

for example: brand can aprove the sell to a country "Y", but the product is reselled to country "Z" (without taxes) from country "Y". Usually people who by this parts consider themselves too far from the manufacturer to request warranty (some of this brands don`t even have office here, how do you imagine they could provide support/warranty).

i am not saying manufacturers can get away with their fault product, in fact, the Braziian law says you should initially contact the store who sold you the product (which is some times useless since they won't offer 1 year warranty and legal counsel usually cost too much)

Edited February 29, 2020 by jhon_tiro85
clarification

[Sakkura]

This bullshit again?

 

 

[markr54632]

1 hour ago, ARikozuM said:

Oh, I'm sorry. Is it a car or a f#cking box on wheels?

 

Am I paying for the same car no matter where I go? 

 

Am I only allowed to use the product as the supplier intended? 

 

You cannot discern that I ran my car at 100mph unless I tell you. If the manufacturer wants me to baby the vehicle, they better take the vehicle back at end of life for recycling because apparently the vehicle is theirs not mine. 

 

You give them a inch, they'll take a mile. And they won't give it back once they do. 

 

As far as using a car for Uber, no manufacturer should be able to bar you for that. It's YOUR vehicle and YOU paid (or are paying) for it. It is YOUR vehicle at the end of the day. 

This actually made me laugh. You can discern how fast a car has been driven, average acceleration and deceleration profiles, and much much more by interfacing with the pcm now. You would be stunned at the amount of information that can be pulled. Of course this varies by make/model. Warrantees can have and will continue to be denied based off of recorded info.

 

Commercial use is usually not covered by warrantee unless explicitly stated.

[ARikozuM]

18 minutes ago, markr54632 said:

This actually made me laugh. You can discern how fast a car has been driven, average acceleration and deceleration profiles, and much much more by interfacing with the pcm now. You would be stunned at the amount of information that can be pulled. Of course this varies by make/model. Warrantees can have and will continue to be denied based off of recorded info.

It should not be used as a form of getting out of warranty service. I know how much can be found through the computer systems, but it should not matter. 

18 minutes ago, markr54632 said:

Commercial use is usually not covered by warrantee unless explicitly stated.

Again, it should not matter. Otherwise every small business that buys a car gets no warranty, a lesser version of it, or has to pay more for it. And none of those options are good options. 

[markr54632]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

It should not be used as a form of getting out of warranty service. I know how much can be found through the computer systems, but it should not matter. 

Again, it should not matter. Otherwise every small business that buys a car gets no warranty, a lesser version of it, or has to pay more for it. And none of those options are good options. 

It does and should matter. Commercial use and racing use is much much harder on components, and things die much much faster.  If you absorb these abusive edge cases into the warranty either the cost of the product or the cost of the warranty has to be increased to compensate for the losses manafacturers will encounter. By using your consumer grade product commercially, you are operating it outside of it's designed parameters ie extended idling time.

 

A warranty is to protect the consumer against manafacturer defects, not premature failure due to abusive edge cases.

[mr moose]

58 minutes ago, jhon_tiro85 said:

There is more about it, about the particularity of warranty in different countries...

for example: brand can aprove the sell to a country "Y", but the product is reselled to country "Z" (without taxes) from country "Y". Usually people who by this parts consider themselves too far from the manufacturer to request warranty (some of this brands don`t even have office here, how do you imagine they could provide support/warranty).

i am not saying manufacturers can get away with their fault product, in fact, the Braziian law says you should initially contact the store who sold you the product (which is some times useless since they won't offer 1 year warranty and legal counsel usually cost too much)

So once again, what has this got to do with reviews and the manufacturer?  you are literally describing an issue derived from buying internationally and avoiding a Brazilian specific tax, not a warranty issue with Intel or review misrepresentation.

[mr moose]

21 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

It should not be used as a form of getting out of warranty service. I know how much can be found through the computer systems, but it should not matter. 

Again, it should not matter. Otherwise every small business that buys a car gets no warranty, a lesser version of it, or has to pay more for it. And none of those options are good options. 

I get what you are saying, and on the surface you are right, no one should have to pay for a full warranty and only get half of it.  However certain uses of products, like commercial, place extra wear and tear on them that would cause a cost to the company and thus a cost increase to the domestic consumer unless they specifically charge more to the commercial/enterprise users. 

 

Here in Australia the classic example is Ozito power tools,  on the box and on a big label on the power cord is a note saying all their tools are for DIY use only,  and that is how they can afford to make something a bit cheaper and giver domestic customers a 3 year warranty.  The other option is to buy what is objectively a superior commercial product with a price tag that reflects that.

[ARikozuM]

4 minutes ago, markr54632 said:

It does and should matter. Commercial use and racing use is much much harder on components, and things die much much faster.  If you absorb these abusive edge cases into the warranty either the cost of the product or the cost of the warranty has to be increased to compensate for the losses manafacturers will encounter. By using your consumer grade product commercially, you are operating it outside of it's designed parameters ie extended idling time.

The costs of products has gone up regardless of warranty claims. Auto insurance has gone up regardless of insurance claims. To say that they "have to increase" the price disregards the fact that they were going to do it anyways. 

4 minutes ago, markr54632 said:

A warranty is to protect the consumer against manafacturer defects, not premature failure due to abusive edge cases.

Using a car for deliveries isn't an abusive edge case. Rallies are one thing I never touched on because I know how strenuous that is since I rally twice a year, but driving 80-100mph is common here in Florida and should not deny warranty service unless directly being a cause of something. Are we going to tell people not to drive 200 miles at a time or risk having warranty denied? And yes, there are many people in Florida that have to commute 100 miles per day for work, school, or play and it should not matter. 

[ARikozuM]

8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I get what you are saying, and on the surface you are right, no one should have to pay for a full warranty and only get half of it.  However certain uses of products, like commercial, place extra wear and tear on them that would cause a cost to the company and thus a cost increase to the domestic consumer unless they specifically charge more to the commercial/enterprise users. 

 

Here in Australia the classic example is Ozito power tools,  on the box and on a big label on the power cord is a note saying all their tools are for DIY use only,  and that is how they can afford to make something a bit cheaper and giver domestic customers a 3 year warranty.  The other option is to buy what is objectively a superior commercial product with a price tag that reflects that.

And I get that. But not every small business can afford an investment that large while opting for a vehicle that is more manageable. I wouldn't call Uber as "commercial" use as much as I would a tow truck or delivery truck. 

 

To bring it back to electronics, if you sell a product as "unlocked" and then say the warranty is void if you use it as "unlocked", then what's the point of buying the product?

[markr54632]

2 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

The costs of products has gone up regardless of warranty claims. Auto insurance has gone up regardless of insurance claims. To say that they "have to increase" the price disregards the fact that they were going to do it anyways. 

Using a car for deliveries isn't an abusive edge case. Rallies are one thing I never touched on because I know how strenuous that is since I rally twice a year, but driving 80-100mph is common here in Florida and should not deny warranty service unless directly being a cause of something. Are we going to tell people not to drive 200 miles at a time or risk having warranty denied? And yes, there are many people in Florida that have to commute 100 miles per day for work, school, or play and it should not matter. 

The price has risen for other reasons, a big reason being the new mandatory safety features. It would have to rise even more. 

 

Using your car for deliveries absolutely is an abusive edge case. You are going to sit in that car in area near potential pickups and idle. In a car not designed for extended periods of idling. Most people are also not going to count the time spent idling into their maintainence schedule. Maintainence will need to be performed according to the time spent running and not mileage in these cases. Most oil life monitors are unable to take idle time into account.

[RonnieOP]

1 hour ago, jhon_tiro85 said:

There is more about it, about the particularity of warranty in different countries...

for example: brand can aprove the sell to a country "Y", but the product is reselled to country "Z" (without taxes) from country "Y". Usually people who by this parts consider themselves too far from the manufacturer to request warranty (some of this brands don`t even have office here, how do you imagine they could provide support/warranty).

i am not saying manufacturers can get away with their fault product, in fact, the Braziian law says you should initially contact the store who sold you the product (which is some times useless since they won't offer 1 year warranty and legal counsel usually cost too much)

So this really isnt an issue with the warrant of intel. but the way your country gets the parts.

 

I understand that it might have to be done this way due to your local laws. but your countries laws are not intels fault.

[ARikozuM]

12 minutes ago, markr54632 said:

The price has risen for other reasons, a big reason being the new mandatory safety features. It would have to rise even more. 

 

Using your car for deliveries absolutely is an abusive edge case. You are going to sit in that car in area near potential pickups and idle. In a car not designed for extended periods of idling. Most people are also not going to count the time spent idling into their maintainence schedule. Maintainence will need to be performed according to the time spent running and not mileage in these cases. Most oil life monitors are unable to take idle time into account.

Except that does not make sense. Most manuals for cars and trucks tell you to replace the oil every 3000/5000 miles or every 6 months. Delivery of pet food once a day for a total of 30 miles is nothing. Doing Uber for 4 hours a day at let's say 200 miles is still within most consumer uses. 

 

To call that commercial is trying to push the lower fringes into a higher category.