first build Are those parts good for a 1000€ budget pc?

[lilotus.FRM]

4 minutes ago, trevb0t said:

It's solid enough. I agree with @Plouffe on the 3600 for $200. Significantly upgraded processing where it will matter. (Even while streaming. And if you keep the 2060S you have NVENC which doesn't tax the CPU anyway.)

You're already budgeting for a MAX series board, so it's specced for Zen 2 either way.

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor	€199.00 @ Amazon Deutschland
Motherboard	MSI B450-A PRO MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard	€97.42 @ Amazon Deutschland
Memory	Patriot Viper 4 Blackout 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory	€66.89 @ Alternate
Storage	Crucial P1 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive	€109.67 @ Amazon Deutschland
Video Card	Asus Radeon RX 5700 XT 8 GB TUF Gaming X3 OC Video Card	€419.27 @ Amazon Deutschland
Case	Cougar MX330 ATX Mid Tower Case	€52.00
Power Supply	BitFenix Formula Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply	€75.43 @ Amazon Deutschland
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	€1019.68
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-12-06 16:18 CET+0100

• Faster in-game performance. (CPU and GPU)
• spending less on the case and more on the guts. Again, solid value on the case.

Plenty. The RX 5700 is a savings and performs about the same (again, you'll lose NVENC decoding, but the 3600 will stream 1080p gaming just fine.)

It's not awful. Value is a hard question. It's often opinionated, but really it's just a ratio of cost to benefit.

 

I argue that in value the Cougar MX-330 is always king. (Usually around 40 bucks, though I see PCPartpicker doesn't currently have any available links for it in Germany. You could likely find one on your preferred online retailer.) It has a mesh front plate, filters for all intake areas, included exhaust fan is reasonable quality, tons of fan support, great cable management, a PSU shroud and either acrylic or tempered glass side panel depending on the variation you grab.

 

(Edit: Found one on German Amazon https://www.amazon.de/Cougar-mx330-g-MX330-Mid-gehärtetem-Fenster/dp/B079X2P3TR/ref=sr_1_4?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=cougar+mx330&qid=1575645577&sr=8-4 I'll still argue it's high value at $52.)

 

If you plan to buy multiple intake fans, then the MB511 becomes an arguably high value, since it includes all of the above and comes with 3 Cooler Master RGB intake fans on top of it. You could of course roll the dice on a cheap 3 pack of no name fans, and some work out fine and slap those in an MX-330, bringing it back to value king.

 

If I don't worry too much about price, I use the Meshify C (a little overpriced in your market. I'd look at it for like 90.) for a very sexy black case with great management and airflow and two very solid included fans. The other is the CM H500 that @Plouffe pointed you toward. I use that for RGB builds, since it is pretty much a wind tunnel with those massive 200mm intakes.

First of all thank you for your reply!

Thank you for your advices but I don‘t really like the looks of the Cougar case and looks are important because I will have it standing on my desk. I know that it would cost me about 50€ more to get the CM H500 but for I would pay that for the looks.

 

In germany the Ryzen 7 2700x is about 10€ cheaper so theoretically I would save that money there but does that influence the gaming performance a lot?

[lilotus.FRM]

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 3.7 GHz 8-Core Processor	€180.91 @ Amazon Deutschland
Motherboard	MSI B450-A PRO MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard	€97.42 @ Amazon Deutschland
Memory	Patriot Viper 4 Blackout 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory	€66.89 @ Alternate
Storage	Crucial P1 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive	€68.22 @ Amazon Deutschland
Video Card	Asus Radeon RX 5700 XT 8 GB TUF Gaming X3 OC Video Card	€419.27 @ Amazon Deutschland
Case	Cooler Master MasterCase H500 ATX Mid Tower Case	€92.71 @ Amazon Deutschland
Power Supply	BitFenix Formula Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply	€75.43 @ Amazon Deutschland
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	€1000.85
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-12-06 17:14 CET+0100

 

I have this configuration now. I will go with a 500gb drive first and get a sata ssd afterwards.

[trevb0t]

1 hour ago, lilotus.FRM said:

First of all thank you for your reply!

Thank you for your advices but I don‘t really like the looks of the Cougar case and looks are important because I will have it standing on my desk. I know that it would cost me about 50€ more to get the CM H500 but for I would pay that for the looks.

 

In germany the Ryzen 7 2700x is about 10€ cheaper so theoretically I would save that money there but does that influence the gaming performance a lot?

The difference is often 5-10% better in average FPS in favor of the 3600.

The 1% lows (which indicates how often frames might stutter, still a small amount, but better 1% lows is ALWAYS a good thing.) are always several FPS higher. (More stable processing.)

Fewer cores/threads, but not few enough you will ever need worry in a gaming PC.

The 3600 draws less power at idle and at load, and is easier to cool. (Potentially better FPS from thermal performance as well.)

 

Zen 2 is just a significantly improved processing family over Zen+.

 

I would spend 10 euro now for 10% FPS for.... Years.

[lilotus.FRM]

5 minutes ago, trevb0t said:

The difference is often 5-10% better in average FPS in favor of the 3600.

The 1% lows (which indicates how often frames might stutter, still a small amount, but better 1% lows is ALWAYS a good thing.) are always several FPS higher. (More stable processing.)

Fewer cores/threads, but not few enough you will ever need worry in a gaming PC.

 

Zen 2 is just a significantly improved processing family over Zen+.

 

I would spend 10 euro now for 10% FPS for.... Years.

Okay I mean 10 € is not a big thing. So I will go with a Ryzen 5 3600.

[lilotus.FRM]

Am I able to overclock with the MSI B450-A Pro Max Mobo?

[boggy77]

2 minutes ago, lilotus.FRM said:

Am I able to overclock with the MSI B450-A Pro Max Mobo?

yes

[trevb0t]

1 hour ago, lilotus.FRM said:

Am I able to overclock with the MSI B450-A Pro Max Mobo?

Absolutely. The A-Pro shares a VRM with the Tomahawk, which is to say that it's low/mid end price for mid/high end VRM.

Some people aren't MSI fans, but I personally find their BIOS easy to navigate and have not had any issues with my MSI boards. (I've got two.)

 

If you look at GN's initial testing on the 3600 they found that the difference between the stock and OC is pretty slim on this chip. If it's a desire as like a hobby, it's perfectly overclockable, but you may find more performance gains in the overclocking and timing tweaking of your RAM and adjusting the "infinity thread" to communicate however you want it to. (A unique thing to Ryzen CPUs.)

GN's review is awesome. Steve is like the king of overclocking and hardware reviews. He further confirms that the 3600 games better at stock in almost every case than even an overclocked 2700X.

 

Here is GN's review (lots of great data):

 

And here is Anthony's super interesting video about the relationship between RAM and the Infinity Fabric:

 

As this demonstrates, the IF and RAM relationship is more important than the speed of the RAM.

(Though for plug and play you want higher frequency and lower CL. 3600 at 16CL is the sweet spot, but expensive. 3200mhz at 16CL is cheap and only really a small difference within games at stock. The frequency can be overclocked to maybe 3444mhz or even 3600 on the right spreaders and you can retain that low CAS Latency. (Viper is decent, Ripjaws, Vengeance and Ballistix are all good for OCing as well.))

 

In short: There will be no need to overclock. Your system will game very well as constructed. If you choose to overclock it will show marginal difference, but may provide a fun hobby.

[HaamYz]

5 hours ago, trevb0t said:

We are talking about 12 active threads on the 3600. You can easily game and stream off of it.

Yes, the $400 sister is going to outperform the $200 unit, though you went for an oddly valued unit, since the 3700X performs almost exactly the same for a 20% savings.

The 3800X is clearly not available in this budget range.

The 3600 provides significantly better gaming benchmarks than even the 2700X, supports higher RAM frequencies, significantly lower TDP, etc.

 

3600 > 1700/X, 2700 and even 2700X in anything buy heavy workload processing. (and even still computes better in a bunch of that.)

 

You clearly didnt read what i typed i said a 1700 overclocked is gonna out perform the 3600 when streaming as will the 2700x

[lilotus.FRM]

3 hours ago, trevb0t said:

Absolutely. The A-Pro shares a VRM with the Tomahawk, which is to say that it's low/mid end price for mid/high end VRM.

Some people aren't MSI fans, but I personally find their BIOS easy to navigate and have not had any issues with my MSI boards. (I've got two.)

 

If you look at GN's initial testing on the 3600 they found that the difference between the stock and OC is pretty slim on this chip. If it's a desire as like a hobby, it's perfectly overclockable, but you may find more performance gains in the overclocking and timing tweaking of your RAM and adjusting the "infinity thread" to communicate however you want it to. (A unique thing to Ryzen CPUs.)

GN's review is awesome. Steve is like the king of overclocking and hardware reviews. He further confirms that the 3600 games better at stock in almost every case than even an overclocked 2700X.

 

Here is GN's review (lots of great data):

 

And here is Anthony's super interesting video about the relationship between RAM and the Infinity Fabric:

 

As this demonstrates, the IF and RAM relationship is more important than the speed of the RAM.

(Though for plug and play you want higher frequency and lower CL. 3600 at 16CL is the sweet spot, but expensive. 3200mhz at 16CL is cheap and only really a small difference within games at stock. The frequency can be overclocked to maybe 3444mhz or even 3600 on the right spreaders and you can retain that low CAS Latency. (Viper is decent, Ripjaws, Vengeance and Ballistix are all good for OCing as well.))

 

In short: There will be no need to overclock. Your system will game very well as constructed. If you choose to overclock it will show marginal difference, but may provide a fun hobby.

Wait what?! I can overclock ram? I didn't even know about this. And from what I understood... lower latency and higher clockspeed is better. But I read something about timing or something the other day do I need to look for good timings? 

And is there a tutorial to overclocking ram?

 

I know overclocking isn't needed but I'd love to try it because with my laptop right now I can't do stuff like that.

And is overclocking the GPU a good idea?

[lilotus.FRM]

I've watched a review about the TUF Gaming 5700XT and they said it was getting really hot and had 111°C under load... I'm a bit concerned about that.

[Meganter]

1 minute ago, lilotus.FRM said:

I've watched a review about the TUF Gaming 5700XT and they said it was getting really hot and had 111°C under load... I'm a bit concerned about that.

The best 5700XT are the Nitro+, Gaming X and Red Devil, the best bang for bucks are usually the Pulse, Red Dragon and Gigabyte OC.

[lilotus.FRM]

Just now, Plouffe said:

The best 5700XT are the Nitro+, Gaming X and Red Devil, the best bang for bucks are usually the Pulse, Red Dragon and Gigabyte OC.

In the Parts Picker list i have the TUF Gaming Card but I don't like that in the reviews they say that it is getting hot.

[Meganter]

Just now, lilotus.FRM said:

In the Parts Picker list i have the TUF Gaming Card but I don't like that in the reviews they say that it is getting hot.

The TUF is a very bad card if not the worst 5700XT.

[lilotus.FRM]

1 minute ago, Plouffe said:

The TUF is a very bad card if not the worst 5700XT.

Well okay...I'd rather not buy it then. I mean my laptop GPU gets very hot but not even as hot as they showed the Tuf gets...it was 111°C and my laptop card is max. at 95°C

[Meganter]

1 minute ago, lilotus.FRM said:

Well okay...I'd rather not buy it then. I mean my laptop GPU gets very hot but not even as hot as they showed the Tuf gets...it was 111°C and my laptop card is max. at 95°C

 

[lilotus.FRM]

The other cards from Red Devil and Pulse are very expensive tho. A 2060S would be a way cheaper option.

[Meganter]

2 minutes ago, lilotus.FRM said:

The other cards from Red Devil and Pulse are very expensive tho. A 2060S would be a way cheaper option.

The 5700XT performs better than the 2060S for a price usually similar.

[lilotus.FRM]

Just now, Plouffe said:

The 5700Xt performs better than the 5700XT for a price usually similar

do you mean the 5700xt performs better than the 2060s?

[Meganter]

Just now, lilotus.FRM said:

do you mean the 5700xt performs better than the 2060s?

Yes sorry it's late, I'm going to sleep  

 

I look at the price and the Pulse and Gaming OC are well priced compared to the 2060S.

[lilotus.FRM]

5 minutes ago, Plouffe said:

Yes sorry it's late, I'm going to sleep  

 

I look at the price and the Pulse and Gaming OC are well priced compared to the 2060S.

No problem and yea I should probably go to sleep to.

 

I just compared the prices and the 5700XT Gaming OC costs 447€. If I choose the Gigabyte card I can't afford a CPU cooler for the moment but I could buy one a month or two later.

 

Do you know if the XFX THICC II Rx5700xt is any good?

[trevb0t]

3 hours ago, HaamYz said:

You clearly didnt read what i typed i said a 1700 overclocked is gonna out perform the 3600 when streaming as will the 2700x

I read it. I just disagree.

There are more factors to streaming and gaming than their Cinebench score.

The 3600's flat victory over OCed 2700X in gaming is a huge indicator.

The gaming performance isn't eating up all 12 threads. Maybe 4. So no. The 1700 isn't going to outperform.

22 minutes ago, Plouffe said:

The TUF is a very bad card if not the worst 5700XT.

My bad on that misslead. I haven't seen the reviews on most of the Navi cooler series.

46 minutes ago, lilotus.FRM said:

Wait what?! I can overclock ram? I didn't even know about this. And from what I understood... lower latency and higher clockspeed is better. But I read something about timing or something the other day do I need to look for good timings? 

And is there a tutorial to overclocking ram?

 

I know overclocking isn't needed but I'd love to try it because with my laptop right now I can't do stuff like that.

And is overclocking the GPU a good idea?

Latency and timings are one and the same CL stands for CAS Latency. But yes, higher frequency and lower timings is exactly what I am saying you want.

I'm sure that GN has some great resources in that regard. It will just take research and trial and error.

 

GPU overclock is absolutely a thing you can do. If you're gonna you'll want a really good cooler. (The Nitro+ is a great option. SAPPHIRE is exclusive to AMD GPUs and is usually the best of the bundle.)

[trevb0t]

9 minutes ago, lilotus.FRM said:

do you mean the 5700xt performs better than the 2060s?

Absolutely. It's neck and neck with the 2070 Super in most ways.

[lilotus.FRM]

11 minutes ago, trevb0t said:

I read it. I just disagree.

There are more factors to streaming and gaming than their Cinebench score.

The 3600's flat victory over OCed 2700X in gaming is a huge indicator.

The gaming performance isn't eating up all 12 threads. Maybe 4. So no. The 1700 isn't going to outperform.

My bad on that misslead. I haven't seen the reviews on most of the Navi cooler series.

Latency and timings are one and the same CL stands for CAS Latency. But yes, higher frequency and lower timings is exactly what I am saying you want.

I'm sure that GN has some great resources in that regard. It will just take research and trial and error.

 

GPU overclock is absolutely a thing you can do. If you're gonna you'll want a really good cooler. (The Nitro+ is a great option. SAPPHIRE is exclusive to AMD GPUs and is usually the best of the bundle.)

So the Viper Ram you said is a good option. I have it in that config. as 3200 mhz rn.

 

The Nitro+ Card is a tiny bit to expensive for me. I swapped the Tuf for a gigabyte gaming oc.

 

 

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor	€199.00 @ Amazon Deutschland
Motherboard	MSI B450-A PRO MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard	€97.42 @ Amazon Deutschland
Memory	Patriot Viper 4 Blackout 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory	€66.89 @ Alternate
Storage	Crucial P1 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive	€68.22 @ Amazon Deutschland
Video Card	Gigabyte Radeon RX 5700 XT 8 GB GAMING OC Video Card	€439.00 @ Mindfactory
Case	Cooler Master MasterCase H500 ATX Mid Tower Case	€92.74 @ Amazon Deutschland
Power Supply	BitFenix Formula Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply	€75.43 @ Amazon Deutschland
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	€1038.70
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-12-07 00:46 CET+0100

 

[lilotus.FRM]

And I definitly fell in love with the CM H500 case

[trevb0t]

13 minutes ago, lilotus.FRM said:

The Nitro+ Card is a tiny bit to expensive for me. I swapped the Tuf for a gigabyte gaming oc.

I know the Gigabyte Gaming OC cooler was particularly bad on the Vega series (maybe they've fixed things since...) I'll look into that. I want good info on the Navi coolers.

Edit: According to our boys at the GPU Cooling Tier List, the Gigabyte OC is a solid ass cooler as well.

 

If they are any more affordable the Pulse or the Red Dragon/Devil would likely be solid overclockers as well.