USB Soundcard with VSS or dedicated AMP/DAC stack for FPS gaming?

[ronferree]

I just bought the AKG K702, AD900x, and HE-4XX open-back headphones for competitive fps gaming.

I'm trying to figure out which route to take to complete the setup and achieve best positional accuracy:

1. USB soundcard with Virtual Surround features, just in case i need them. (My best options are SoundblasterX G6 or X7. Do you agree?)

OR

2. Dedicated stack of amp and dac like JDS EL DAC + Massdrop THX AAA 789 balanced amp (future proof investment that allows me to upgrade to more demanding balanced planar headphones like the Argon MK3 BUT lacks any VSS features at DAC level so i would only play in stereo mode. Can I still use software VSS engine in this scenario, e.g. HeSuvi, just for single player games?)

Option 2 is way more expensive but opens up the cans and brings them to life, reportedly better than a USB soundcard. I can't decide between 1 and 2, strictly for competitive FPS gaming in Battlefield and occasional single player immersive gaming.

[NineEyeRon]

15 minutes ago, ronferree said:

I just bought the AKG K702, AD900x, and HE-4XX open-back headphones for competitive fps gaming.

https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/computing-components/best-pc-gaming-headset-1322675

[rice guru]

If you think you will be collecting headphones I would take route 2 I will just say you don't need to spend that much on a DAC there are things like a khadas tone board, and a enog 2 pro both actually measures a wee bit better than the eldac for a little cbeaper also smsl has the thx 888 which is a newer chip for cheaper

[PriitM]

Consider the following: You will be handicapped on terms of spacial awareness, since high-fidelity does not always mean high spacial re-production. Sure, there are sound processors that mimic 360 degrees of space to an extent, but you will be always locked in basic triangulation. I would suggest looking into a 5.1 or 7.1 headset with a good processor rather than trial-error, trying to overcome physical limitations of stereo.    

[rice guru]

1 hour ago, PriitM said:

Consider the following: You will be handicapped on terms of spacial awareness, since high-fidelity does not always mean high spacial re-production. Sure, there are sound processors that mimic 360 degrees of space to an extent, but you will be always locked in basic triangulation. I would suggest looking into a 5.1 or 7.1 headset with a good processor rather than trial-error, trying to overcome physical limitations of stereo.    

But if you use a good headphone and good software like hesuvi you do that but better

[ronferree]

Priitm, kindly don't elaborate more on your point, it will derail the thread big time. I have been doing my research for 2 years and I was at your stage around 4 years ago when I was not interested in the topic. I believe I made  quite a good choice regarding the headphones; those are end-game for the budget. Might add Argon MK3 and DT990 to the collection. What you are suggesting will create a back and forth debate with countless members all of which would be irrelevant to me. I am well over the 5.1 and 7.1 gaming headsets.

 

@rice guru, fair point, but what if I needed some VSS for single player gaming at some point? Would VSS software like Hesuvi still work on top of the DAC/AMP stack?

 

Windows 10 > Hesuvi or Razer paid app > JDS EL DAC or other > SMSL THX 888 amp > Headphone?

 

Again this is just for single player games where immersion is required. For competitive FPS, i plan to play in stereo mode; also curious to try how the VSS from Hesuvi or Razer software would stack up with imaging.

 

FPS players who use a DAC/AMP stack and open-back headphone, do you use surround sound processing at any level as well? or do you play in stereo mode? Please share.

[rice guru]

10 minutes ago, ronferree said:

Priitm, kindly don't elaborate more on your point, it will derail the thread big time. I have been doing my research for 2 years and I was at your stage around 4 years ago when I was not interested in the topic. I believe I made  quite a good choice regarding the headphones; those are end-game for the budget. Might add Argon MK3 and DT990 to the collection. What you are suggesting will create a back and forth debate with countless members all of which would be irrelevant to me. I am well over the 5.1 and 7.1 gaming headsets.

 

@rice guru, fair point, but what if I needed some VSS for single player gaming at some point? Would VSS software like Hesuvi still work on top of the DAC/AMP stack?

 

Windows 10 > Hesuvi or Razer paid app > JDS EL DAC or other > SMSL THX 888 amp > Headphone?

 

Again this is just for single player games where immersion is required. For competitive FPS, i plan to play in stereo mode; also curious to try how the VSS from Hesuvi or Razer software would stack up.

 

FPS players who use DAC/AMP stack and open-back headphone, do you use surround sound processing at any level as well? or do you play in stereo mode? Please share.

when I was playing with the software it worked with my setup it just required a bit more tweaking. I will say I don't use it that much  personally cause the games I play have really good sound engines and virtual suround sound just messes with it.  I don't know about single player games though cause I find my headphones do a great jub with stereo in terms of immersion especially with openbacks with wide soundstages  like my 990 and 4xx

[ronferree]

so it worked with this setup of yours:

 

Hesuvi app > topping d10 --->  monolith Cavelli Liquid Spark---> Beyerdynamic dt 990 ?

 

And how do you configure the whole chain when you play online FPS games?

- Windows Sonic + Virtualization, on or off?

- Control Panel Sound device properties, what is the output type?

- In game settings: Do you set them to stereo or surround?

 

I am assuming that's it. It would be nice if you can give a game as an example and how do configure along the 3-tier chain above.

[pas008]

 

once i went x7 never looked back(feature rich too), i love vss and sbx sold me awhile ago, dont think hesuvi was around then

 

there is x3 out now too

 

I have had many headphones down to hd600, he 400, q701, dt770, and few others that collect dust but sold many off

have few dacs and amps along with soundcards, even made my zxr external in itx case with riser cable, few of those are collecting dust too

so watch out it can be huge money pit

 

@rice guru

you know of any dacs that are working with hesuvi w/o issue from your knowledge?

[ronferree]

pas008, do you play online FPS games where directional accuracy is important? If yes, do you play with the virtual surround sound features on the X7 enabled or disabled? Windows Sonic on or off? In-game audio setting set to stereo or surround? -Thanks.

[rice guru]

6 hours ago, pas008 said:

 

once i went x7 never looked back(feature rich too), i love vss and sbx sold me awhile ago, dont think hesuvi was around then

 

there is x3 out now too

 

I have had many headphones down to hd600, he 400, q701, dt770, and few others that collect dust but sold many off

have few dacs and amps along with soundcards, even made my zxr external in itx case with riser cable, few of those are collecting dust too

so watch out it can be huge money pit

 

@rice guru

you know of any dacs that are working with hesuvi w/o issue from your knowledge?

No not really like I said I don't really use it much but it did work with my topping d10 after some tweaking.

[pas008]

9 hours ago, ronferree said:

pas008, do you play online FPS games where directional accuracy is important? If yes, do you play with the virtual surround sound features on the X7 enabled or disabled? Windows Sonic on or off? In-game audio setting set to stereo or surround? -Thanks.

yes I do play fps games online

just havent recently busy with adulting

usually i'll have windows set to 7.1 and games that dont do a headphone mode well to 5.1/7.1

then I turn on sbx

 

6 hours ago, rice guru said:

No not really like I said I don't really use it much but it did work with my topping d10 after some tweaking.

son uses hesuvi and have all this extra stuff here he could be using so was just wondering

he tried a couple but he rather have hesuvi

 

I know he can handle emulators so he could handle that?

I have like few hours of hesuvi exp but thats usually installing and getting it working for others nothing other than that lol

plus time is huge factor

[rice guru]

6 hours ago, pas008 said:

 

I know he can handle emulators so he could handle that?

I have like few hours of hesuvi exp but thats usually installing and getting it working for others nothing other than that lol

plus time is huge factor

I get you sorry I'm not much help. I don't use it too much but it took me a long time to get it set up intiaally.and after that it works when I want to use it

[an actual squirrel]

If you are going to use hesuvi, I recommend actually using integrated audio with a headphone amp. In this configuration, since you can output higher levels from the motherboard, and then you lower the levels with the volume control on the amp, you still end up with a higher signal to noise ratio (the main reason why people do dac upgrades). And because integrated audio natively supports windows with 7.1 audio, that will make some of the hesuvi set up easier since you no longer would need to create a virtual 7.1 sound device.

 

The virtual surround sound is the thing that actually can help you get a better sense of direction in games. The dac and headphone amp are more about making sure there isn't a lot of noise or making sure you have enough volume, respectively. 

 

 

[ronferree]

9 hours ago, an actual squirrel said:

If you are going to use hesuvi, I recommend actually using integrated audio with a headphone amp. In this configuration, since you can output higher levels from the motherboard, and then you lower the levels with the volume control on the amp, you still end up with a higher signal to noise ratio (the main reason why people do dac upgrades). And because integrated audio natively supports windows with 7.1 audio, that will make some of the hesuvi set up easier since you no longer would need to create a virtual 7.1 sound device.

 

The virtual surround sound is the thing that actually can help you get a better sense of direction in games. The dac and headphone amp are more about making sure there isn't a lot of noise or making sure you have enough volume, respectively. 

 

 

Yes, that is the direction I'm taking: Hesuvi>onboard optical lineout> Modi3 DAC > SP200 THX 888 AMP > AKG K702 Headphone

 

As of now, when I plug the headphone directly into the headphone jack, windows does not allow 7.1 option in sound properties; gets restricted to "Headphone". I still don't have Hesuvi installed.

 

Are you sure that when I set up the above design, like you suggested, Windows will then allow me to set the output to 7.1? Does it depend on which DAC i buy or on how i configure Hesuvi?

[an actual squirrel]

On 11/28/2019 at 1:12 AM, ronferree said:

Yes, that is the direction I'm taking: Hesuvi>onboard optical lineout> Modi3 DAC > SP200 THX 888 AMP > AKG K702 Headphone

 

As of now, when I plug the headphone directly into the headphone jack, windows does not allow 7.1 option in sound properties; gets restricted to "Headphone". I still don't have Hesuvi installed.

 

Are you sure that when I set up the above design, like you suggested, Windows will then allow me to set the output to 7.1? Does it depend on which DAC i buy or on how i configure Hesuvi?

What I'm suggesting is to not buy a dac, and to use the analog output of the motherboard, to simplify the setup. With a headphone amp alone, you will still have improved signal to noise ratio. 

 

You can get around that issue of not being able to select 7.1 by installing the default microsoft audio driver or by just having a bunch of dummy stuff plugged in for the sake of confusing the motherboard.