GPU for new build RX 5700 xt or RTX 2070 super

[BTGbullseye]

On 11/22/2019 at 12:47 PM, hollyh88 said:

Its not just battlefield some other games have the issue too which really makes me think that this cpu just isnt good enough for a 2070 super.

No, there's something really wrong with your system then, because a 2600x is easily enough to push a 2070S in most games.

[hollyh88]

3 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

No, there's something really wrong with your system then, because a 2600x is easily enough to push a 2070S in most games.

i dont see anything wrong with my system. no heating issues no power issues no overclocking issues. so i don't know what could cause it to not work properly other than just not being a good match. 

[BTGbullseye]

5 hours ago, hollyh88 said:

i dont see anything wrong with my system. no heating issues no power issues no overclocking issues. so i don't know what could cause it to not work properly other than just not being a good match. 

I agree, but the fact remains that your experience with the CPU is decidedly abnormal.

[hollyh88]

38 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

I agree, but the fact remains that your experience with the CPU is decidedly abnormal.

could just be that the cpu isnt performing good? just tested again i think so. i think there is something wrong.
single is 396 (its oced to 4.1)
mutli is 2923 

[BTGbullseye]

1 minute ago, hollyh88 said:

could just be that the cpu isnt performing good? just tested again i think so. i think there is something wrong.
single is 396 (its oced to 4.1)
mutli is 2923 

Which benchmark did you use?

[hollyh88]

54 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

Which benchmark did you use?

weird i wrote down cinebench but it didnt save? well cinebench r20. if i look around however the single score should be around 410 ish and mutli around 3100 ish. so there really is an issue i think but idk what. i can try to remove the overclock and see how it runs in cinebench r20

 

[BTGbullseye]

2 hours ago, hollyh88 said:

weird i wrote down cinebench but it didnt save? well cinebench r20. if i look around however the single score should be around 410 ish and mutli around 3100 ish. so there really is an issue i think but idk what. i can try to remove the overclock and see how it runs in cinebench r20

 

Yeah, remove the manual overclock, and enable PBO. It's possible there are other BIOS settings interfering with the CPU performance as well, so doing a full reset and updating the BIOS is a good idea.

[hollyh88]

28 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

Yeah, remove the manual overclock, and enable PBO. It's possible there are other BIOS settings interfering with the CPU performance as well, so doing a full reset and updating the BIOS is a good idea.

so far just removing oc and doing pbo

mutli 2808 so reduced as expected with lower overal speed

but.. 

single 407. so an improvement. kinda weird.. 

my bios was the second to last but ill update and do the mutli core and single test again

 

 

[hollyh88]

56 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

Yeah, remove the manual overclock, and enable PBO. It's possible there are other BIOS settings interfering with the CPU performance as well, so doing a full reset and updating the BIOS is a good idea.

after bios update 

multi 2776

single 404

so even less performance

 

[BTGbullseye]

16 minutes ago, hollyh88 said:

after bios update 

multi 2776

single 404

so even less performance

 

Sounds like there's 1 or 2 cores that aren't as powerful as they should be. That single-core improvement is probably one core being able to hit 4.2GHz. (and it's especially important for gaming to have good single-core) Try disabling the cores one at a time for the benchmark, and see which ones have a lower single-core. If none do, then it's probably thermal issues, or something else wrong in the CPU.

[hollyh88]

36 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

Sounds like there's 1 or 2 cores that aren't as powerful as they should be. That single-core improvement is probably one core being able to hit 4.2GHz. (and it's especially important for gaming to have good single-core) Try disabling the cores one at a time for the benchmark, and see which ones have a lower single-core. If none do, then it's probably thermal issues, or something else wrong in the CPU.

they are all around the same. and its not thermal issues at full multi load it hits around 70 degrees. at 1 core load it hits about 54. so i really dont know

[BTGbullseye]

3 hours ago, hollyh88 said:

they are all around the same. and its not thermal issues at full multi load it hits around 70 degrees. at 1 core load it hits about 54. so i really dont know

Yeah, there's something weird going on, because those scores for multi-core are low. Probably a Windows issue that has a 0% chance of getting fixed.

[hollyh88]

7 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

Yeah, there's something weird going on, because those scores for multi-core are low. Probably a Windows issue that has a 0% chance of getting fixed.

well and im just spitting ideas here. could have something to do with the bios update. the latest bios updates are often more optimized for the newer processors. as the biosses before the processors came out. heck they even had to make the bios screen a lite version due to it. maybe just maybe im losing performance due to that. or it causing issues.

[BTGbullseye]

8 hours ago, hollyh88 said:

well and im just spitting ideas here. could have something to do with the bios update. the latest bios updates are often more optimized for the newer processors. as the biosses before the processors came out. heck they even had to make the bios screen a lite version due to it. maybe just maybe im losing performance due to that. or it causing issues.

Not likely. The latest AGEISA (1.0.0.4) reduces performance across the board with the 3000 series CPUs slightly. It's due to stability optimizations. That has no reported effect on the 2000 series CPUs though.

 

There have been MANY Windows updates that have messed with 2000 and 3000 series CPU performance, and at seemingly random, hence why I'm suggesting it to be a Windows issue. Though, it is theoretically possible that your motherboard chipset is running too hot and causing issues as well. (which is why the X570 chipsets have fans and beefy coolers on them)

[hollyh88]

9 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

Not likely. The latest AGEISA (1.0.0.4) reduces performance across the board with the 3000 series CPUs slightly. It's due to stability optimizations. That has no reported effect on the 2000 series CPUs though.

 

There have been MANY Windows updates that have messed with 2000 and 3000 series CPU performance, and at seemingly random, hence why I'm suggesting it to be a Windows issue. Though, it is theoretically possible that your motherboard chipset is running too hot and causing issues as well. (which is why the X570 chipsets have fans and beefy coolers on them)

i checked the temperatures of the motherboard first  it isnt even touching the 60 degrees when gaming. So thats not an issue either. perhaps it could be windows taking my 2600x down. don't know why though. hope they look into this

[BTGbullseye]

8 hours ago, hollyh88 said:

i checked the temperatures of the motherboard first  it isnt even touching the 60 degrees when gaming. So thats not an issue either. perhaps it could be windows taking my 2600x down. don't know why though. hope they look into this

I hope they do too, and you get a fix soon.

[hollyh88]

7 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

I hope they do too, and you get a fix soon.

yeah otherwise i am kinda forced to change to a 3600/x orso to not get this terrible cpu bottlenecked for no reason. Like my gpu is in several games even tho tripple a incapeable of hitting at the very least 99% usage. 
 

90-96%  constantly

this guy

98/99% contstantly. 

this is ofc only a minor example of the 70% orso in battlefield. but the difference is there. and yes you can somewhat say that it has to do with the location. but the rural farm area in that dlc are easier to run than the city. i dont know why else my gpu wouldnt be fully utilized than the cpu. probably due to windows and so on but i have no way of 100% knowing that. 

[BTGbullseye]

11 hours ago, hollyh88 said:

90-96%  constantly

You could contact AMD and see if they have a fix for it, or if they think there may be something wrong with your CPU. They might even upgrade you if the part is bad and they're running low on replacements of the same product. (I got upgraded to a 2600 when I sent in my broken 2400G about 2 months ago)

[hollyh88]

1 hour ago, BTGbullseye said:

You could contact AMD and see if they have a fix for it, or if they think there may be something wrong with your CPU. They might even upgrade you if the part is bad and they're running low on replacements of the same product. (I got upgraded to a 2600 when I sent in my broken 2400G about 2 months ago)

i could try it yes  cause that usage % doesn't make alot of sense. 

[BTGbullseye]

2 hours ago, hollyh88 said:

i could try it yes  cause that usage % doesn't make alot of sense. 

Yeah it definitely doesn't. I still think it's a Microsoft issue though.

[hollyh88]

13 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

Yeah it definitely doesn't. I still think it's a Microsoft issue though.

i still have about 24 months of warranty so i can totally return it but yeah i contacted them. but even if it is a microsoft issue how would they be able to fix it lol. 

[Mark Kaine]

On 11/19/2019 at 3:42 PM, Midnitewolf said:

still don't know if I agree. I guess it is a matter of perspective but I just don't see consoles as the force which drives the technology.

 

While it may be true that the focus on gaming has shifted to consoles due to their popularity compared to computers,

 

This is true,  it's a matter of perspective,  even though you already indirectly agreed when you said this build would probably last around "3 years"  which is also about what I'm thinking. 

My point is due to how companies tend to push out new hardware and features, waiting until around the same time next year would *most likely* make a PC that's build then last around "6 years" instead of ~3 years ie a whole console generation.  This is something you can agree with or not but it's a pattern that emerged over the last couple of years (around since PS360 era) and can't really be successfully disputed in my opinion. 

 

 

To the last point,  it's not only that,  it's also developers *have to* use consoles as the baseline because otherwise they'd need to do way to many downgrades when porting for consoles since PCs are naturally way more powerful and it's just financially a lot more feasible this way around. 

 

Basically if PC was used as the baseline they'd need to do two versions,  but when consoles are the baseline (which they are for the vast majority of multi platform titles)  then all they have to do is crank up effects and perhaps texture resolution for the PC Version, and due to how computers work this literally just works,  no need to make any concessions like they would need to do for consoles due to their fixed hardware,  which would make downgrades from the PC version, while still offering somewhat acceptable performance a lot more difficult. 

 

 

[Midnitewolf]

On 10/27/2019 at 3:43 PM, Shadowjack said:

Replacing my 6 year old system with something that (hopefully) will do me for another 5 or 6 years

Still deciding between Ryzen 7 3700 X or i7 9700k

Either way will likely go with the Gigabyte Arous ultra - X570 or Z390

 

Question is - Which GPU will be the most viable for 5 or 6 years?

AMD options :

PowerColor Red Devil RX 5700 XT
Sapphire Nitro+ RX 5700 XT

Nvidia Options: (2070 super will push me a bit over my $2000 budget but is doable)
Gigabyte RTX 2070 Super GAMING OC
OR ? (open to suggestions up to $600 limit)

In my experience, the part of the PC that loses it relevancy the quickest is the Video Card so generally speaking I would get the very best you can afford.  I would further say that you might be better off downgrading other parts of your build, say go with a Gigabyte Aorus Pro (on sale for $219 at new egg) or even Aorus Elite (on sale for $169 with $20 rebate at Newegg) to upgrade the Video Card If you want to extend the life of your computer  as far as possible without having to upgrade anything .   This one downgrade which isn't that much of a downgrade based on the reviews I have seen/read would free up enough for you to get a 2080 Super.

 

On 10/28/2019 at 3:29 PM, Shadowjack said:

That is pretty much what I am thinking and is the best reason I have to go Ryzen. Question is will pcie4 be relevant with 5 due out next year and 6 in 2021? Obviously 5 and 6 will be faster, 4 is faster than 3. Right now 4 is meh. Ive looked at the Nvme 4 drives and so far the theory doesnt translate into a real world difference. Plus they run hotter. 

 

What I don't get is why pcie 4 (RX 5700 xt on the x570 platform) doesnt have any real impact on game performance? Is it just another example of games lagging behind the tech? If games do catch up will the RX 5700 xt performance increase significantly?  

 

I just skimmed through this comparison of pcie 2,3,4
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/pci-express-4-0-performance-scaling-radeon-rx-5700-xt/

 

The value of PCI 4.0 is really up in the air to be honest.  Nothing really currently takes advantage of it except some PCI 4.0 SSDs, but then again you have to consider that since it wasn't an adopted standard, there was no reason for anyone to develop any products for it.  Now that it is in use, there is a reason for companies to make products for it so more and more things will start taking advantage of it. 

 

Additionally, Radeon has already adopted it as the standard interface for GPUs and rumor has it, Nvidia will be adopting it with their next gen coming out next year.  They wouldn't be adopting it if they didn't have some reason to believe it might have a use in the near future.  With how demanding ray tracing seems to be, combined with how ray tracing seems to be the main focus for the next big leap in computer graphics, it wouldn't surprise me if, now that PCI 4.0 is an adopted standard, the new GPU technology doesn't rather quickly start taking advantage of the extra bandwidth available. 

 

So the only real reason to worry about PCI 4.0 is due to the potential need for it down the road. Honestly, I kind of doubt we see any real mainstream need for it for at least 2 years but as the OP mentioned he wanted to computer to last 5-6 years, I would say there is at least a fair possibility he could see a need for it at some point in the life of his PC.

 

As for PCI 5.0 coming out, I don't think we have to worry about that for a good long time.  For example, the PCI 4.0 standard was actually ready in 2017 but it took 2 years before anyone thought to adopt it so even though PCI 5.0 is supposed to be ready in 2020, it could be 2022 or even longer before it is adopted. 

 

[BTGbullseye]

19 hours ago, hollyh88 said:

but even if it is a microsoft issue how would they be able to fix it lol. 

If they already know about it, they may also know of a settings change or update removal that will alleviate the problem. Then again, it could be a driver issue with the motherboard drivers, or something not playing well in the drivers, so many possible issues.

[Shadowjack]

On 11/27/2019 at 8:42 AM, Midnitewolf said:

In my experience, the part of the PC that loses it relevancy the quickest is the Video Card so generally speaking I would get the very best you can afford.  I would further say that you might be better off downgrading other parts of your build, say go with a Gigabyte Aorus Pro (on sale for $219 at new egg) or even Aorus Elite (on sale for $169 with $20 rebate at Newegg) to upgrade the Video Card If you want to extend the life of your computer  as far as possible without having to upgrade anything .   This one downgrade which isn't that much of a downgrade based on the reviews I have seen/read would free up enough for you to get a 2080 Super.

 

 

The value of PCI 4.0 is really up in the air to be honest.  Nothing really currently takes advantage of it except some PCI 4.0 SSDs, but then again you have to consider that since it wasn't an adopted standard, there was no reason for anyone to develop any products for it.  Now that it is in use, there is a reason for companies to make products for it so more and more things will start taking advantage of it. 

 

Additionally, Radeon has already adopted it as the standard interface for GPUs and rumor has it, Nvidia will be adopting it with their next gen coming out next year.  They wouldn't be adopting it if they didn't have some reason to believe it might have a use in the near future.  With how demanding ray tracing seems to be, combined with how ray tracing seems to be the main focus for the next big leap in computer graphics, it wouldn't surprise me if, now that PCI 4.0 is an adopted standard, the new GPU technology doesn't rather quickly start taking advantage of the extra bandwidth available. 

 

So the only real reason to worry about PCI 4.0 is due to the potential need for it down the road. Honestly, I kind of doubt we see any real mainstream need for it for at least 2 years but as the OP mentioned he wanted to computer to last 5-6 years, I would say there is at least a fair possibility he could see a need for it at some point in the life of his PC.

 

As for PCI 5.0 coming out, I don't think we have to worry about that for a good long time.  For example, the PCI 4.0 standard was actually ready in 2017 but it took 2 years before anyone thought to adopt it so even though PCI 5.0 is supposed to be ready in 2020, it could be 2022 or even longer before it is adopted. 

 

 In the past month i have made some adjustments. The GPU is the most important part in terms of relevancy. I have already purchase the Gigabyte Aorus RTX 2070 super as it is, in my opinion the best card at the $600 price point (paid 585). After further review i agree PCIe 4 is not really relevant at this time. 

 

 I know the tech is ever changing at an accelerated pace. the fact remains this will be only my 4th build since 2002. Over that span i have only made 2 upgrades. A gpu on my 2008 build and added an SSD to my current 2014 build. This has schedule has worked for me. Mostly because i pretty much unplug from the tech until i find a need. This time around may be different. I may look to update GPU and maybe CPU in 3 years. Will be watching prices on mobo, cpu and ram this weekend. Ive got everything else. 

 

Thanks for the input, have a great Thanksgiving.