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For help choosing a power supply please Create a New Thread asking for assistance including your budget and system hardware to receive the best answers relevant to your specific needs.

1 hour ago, Ricardo Harrow said:

Hey, guys! I'm going to be buying a PSU sometime in the future and I'm kind of paranoid about getting a PSU that's part of a bad batch. Is there any way I can safeguard myself from purchasing a PSU that's part of a bad batch? Is there any forum site or thread that I can use for reference?

You're indeed just being paranoid, just get a good PSU in the first place, with 99% chance it will be fine and that 1% is covered by warranty.

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3 minutes ago, Juular said:

You're indeed just being paranoid, just get a good PSU in the first place, with 99% chance it will be fine and that 1% is covered by warranty.

Well, alright. If you don't mind me asking, if one of the Tier A PSUs were to crap out on a rig, is there a high chance of them taking down a component with them or is that more of a thing with PSUs in Tier C and below?

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2 minutes ago, Ricardo Harrow said:

Well, alright. If you don't mind me asking, if one of the Tier A PSUs were to crap out on a rig, is there a high chance of them taking down a component with them or is that more of a thing with PSUs in Tier C and below?

Depends on the type of failure and quality of components, build quality. Most tier A (and B+ for that matter) units should be pretty much on par with each other at that, there are a lot more lower quality or just old units in tier C and down. Overall, with modern PSUs (tier B+ and up), the probability of PSU taking down PC with it in case of failure should be rather low even compared to probability of any failure at all. But honestly i don't really know what should happen for that scenario to occur, maybe @jonnyGURU could help here ?

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2 hours ago, Juular said:

Depends on the type of failure and quality of components, build quality. Most tier A (and B+ for that matter) units should be pretty much on par with each other at that, there are a lot more lower quality or just old units in tier C and down. Overall, with modern PSUs (tier B+ and up), the probability of PSU taking down PC with it in case of failure should be rather low even compared to probability of any failure at all. But honestly i don't really know what should happen for that scenario to occur, maybe @jonnyGURU could help here ?

This should have been its own thread, BTW.  😉

 

Failure happens on the primary side:  Transformer typically isolates damage to the DC side.

 

Failure happens on the DC side:  All bets are off.

 

If you get a REALLY CHEAP PSU, then it continues to work and slowly kills all of your components between the range of 2 to 3 years.

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On 5/11/2020 at 3:56 AM, Juular said:

And again, just because tier A+ exist it doesn't mean that all tier A+ units are better than A, it's a complementary tier (hence the +), if you disregard multirail - please do so. But a newbie coming here would see that tier A+ units are better at least when it's a high wattage PSU, that 650W number may be a bit higher honestly, about 850W but still.

Again, it's there because it fits there according to methodology. We're marking not so good units inside a tier with gray color now which still fit this tier otherwise, which you can see in the screenshot above but unless we'll make changes to methodology for voltage regulation (which seems to be main reason why you're talking about that bq! PSU at all here) - we can't move it down.

It seems clear to me that you agree that there's something wrong with the list and agree with me that this BQ shouldn't be higher on the list. But I also have to agree that making drastic changes isn't easy, but I'll try to give suggestions.

 

  1. Yes, please do make the numbers higher. 850 W is more relevant.
  2. Tighten the requirements for PSUs to go into tier A+. Ripple shouldn't be above 30mV, Vreg shouldn't be above 1.5%, etc. Since there isn't that much PSU over there, it will be much easier rather than making a completely new methodology from the grounds up. Either it goes down to tier A, or maybe it deserves a new Tier like "A+ minus" or something like that. I mean this tier should be the second best PSUs available on the market, so they better be ridiculously good.
  3. Maybe I can help with collecting Aris' data, I'd actually love to help you guys if you need some.
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@boghubodaghi Okay, a little update, after some internal talk it turned out that what Luke meant by 'Recommended for 650W+ systems' in tier A+ description actually means =>750W. And after some polls we decided to keep things as they're now, i.e not to raise this number to 850W and not to move lower wattage units from tier A+ to tier A. And while i were voting for 850W and to split off lower wattage units i understand the reasoning behind this. Even with lowest wattage PSUs, 450W, the difference between OCP on single and multi-rail units would be around 30% (35A vs 45A), it's already 40-70% on 550W and 60-100% on 650W. That's a lot of difference, and while there are no research to show at which currents multi-rail actually starts to matter, regardless, even lowest wattage PSU assuming it's already good enough electrically and costs the same as comparable single-rail unit would be better from safety perspective.

 

On second point, we already have those requirements for Gold color (again, shown in the above screenshots), there are quite a few of units that qualify for that so separating them to their own tiers doesn't make much sense perhaps (and we'll need to make yet another tier as there such units that are single-rail), but just differentiating them with different color would be more flexible way.

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Okay so my evga g1 is shit, that's why it failed two times in a couple of months

Should I go for gigabyte G750H 750w or Seasonic GM-750?

 

Guess gigabyte is better and also cheaper in my country

 

Edit: gigabyte is barely cheaper but I have to wait like a month cause of the virus. So if the seasonic is also tier A, I'll go for that

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For the Cybernetics reports on PSUs, which spec in the reports is what I look for when looking at electronic noise (ripples) and consistent output? I am thinking of upgrading my old PSU beside getting a new unit for my second computer. I am probably looking to rebuild my old computer into audio production unit.

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41 minutes ago, vformula00 said:

For the Cybernetics reports on PSUs, which spec in the reports is what I look for when looking at electronic noise (ripples) and consistent output?

those aren't really found inside this report, rather on Aris's reviews on Tomshardware, Kitguru (though most of these are by Zardon) and Techpowerup

 

the closest you'll find is this in it (NZXT C)

afbeelding.png.5728d1de94a3d3cdcdbc5e70cdca8775.png

PSU Tier List 4.0//Motherboard Tier List//Community Standards//ATX Specification//Group Regulation//Topologies and Regulations//How many watts?//PSU Protections

Don't forget to quote or mention me

 

Primary PC:

Spoiler

CPU: I5-8600k 5.0ghz

GPU: GTX 1070 ti EVGA SC Gaming

RAM: 2x8 3333 mhz DDR4 Trident Z

MOBO: MSI Gaming Pro Carbon AC

HDD: 1 TB 7200 RPM Seagate Baracudda, 1 TB 5400 RPM Samsung Spinpoint HD103SI

SSD: Samsung 860 EVO 500 GB

Case: Cooler Master Masterbox Lite 5 RGB (modified)

PSU: Seasonic Focus GX650

 

Consoles:

Spoiler

PS4 Slim Glacier White 500 GB

PS4 FTP Special Edition 500 GB

PS3 Super Slim 500 GB

PS2 OG

Xbox OG

DS Lite White

DS Lite Black/blue

DS Lite Blue

DSI XL Orange

Gameboy Advanced Color

PS Vita v2

Wii

 

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3 hours ago, gamer from the 3rd world said:

Should I go for gigabyte G750H 750w or Seasonic GM-750?

There are two Seasonic GMs, Focus and Core, former is in tier A, latter in tier B+, Gigabyte GH is in between of them, it's tier A but on the lowest side. Segotep GP-600G is good (on the lower side of tier A but better than Gigabyte), we're not sure if GP-650G uses the same platform tho (edited).

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3 minutes ago, Juular said:

There are two Seasonic GMs, Focus and Core, former is in tier A, latter in tier B+, Gigabyte GH is in between of them, it's tier A but on the lowest side.

yeah we don't really have the seasonic focus gm right now, it is in fact the focus fm.

 

So I guess I'll buy the gigabyte.

 

But what about the segotep 600w 80 plus gold? Tier A also

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4 minutes ago, gamer from the 3rd world said:

yeah we don't really have the seasonic focus gm right now, it is in fact the focus fm.

If you don't plan to use AMD Vega with it, Focus FM is fine too.

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22 minutes ago, Juular said:

GP-650G is good (on the lower side of tier A but better than Gigabyte), we're not sure if GP-600G uses the same platform.

other way around, we do know of gp-600g

PSU Tier List 4.0//Motherboard Tier List//Community Standards//ATX Specification//Group Regulation//Topologies and Regulations//How many watts?//PSU Protections

Don't forget to quote or mention me

 

Primary PC:

Spoiler

CPU: I5-8600k 5.0ghz

GPU: GTX 1070 ti EVGA SC Gaming

RAM: 2x8 3333 mhz DDR4 Trident Z

MOBO: MSI Gaming Pro Carbon AC

HDD: 1 TB 7200 RPM Seagate Baracudda, 1 TB 5400 RPM Samsung Spinpoint HD103SI

SSD: Samsung 860 EVO 500 GB

Case: Cooler Master Masterbox Lite 5 RGB (modified)

PSU: Seasonic Focus GX650

 

Consoles:

Spoiler

PS4 Slim Glacier White 500 GB

PS4 FTP Special Edition 500 GB

PS3 Super Slim 500 GB

PS2 OG

Xbox OG

DS Lite White

DS Lite Black/blue

DS Lite Blue

DSI XL Orange

Gameboy Advanced Color

PS Vita v2

Wii

 

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3 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

other way around, we do know of gp-600g

Uh, right.

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On 5/12/2020 at 3:05 PM, Juular said:

Okay, a little update, after some internal talk it turned out that what Luke meant by 'Recommended for 650W+ systems' in tier A+ description actually means =>750W.

Hmm... Weird. If that's true no 650W PSUs should be on A+. Simple arithmethics, no?

 

On 5/12/2020 at 3:05 PM, Juular said:

And while i were voting for 850W and to split off lower wattage units i understand the reasoning behind this. Even with lowest wattage PSUs, 450W, the difference between OCP on single and multi-rail units would be around 30% (35A vs 45A), it's already 40-70% on 550W and 60-100% on 650W. That's a lot of difference, and while there are no research to show at which currents multi-rail actually starts to matter, regardless, even lowest wattage PSU assuming it's already good enough electrically and costs the same as comparable single-rail unit would be better from safety perspective.

 

On second point, we already have those requirements for Gold color (again, shown in the above screenshots), there are quite a few of units that qualify for that so separating them to their own tiers doesn't make much sense perhaps (and we'll need to make yet another tier as there such units that are single-rail), but just differentiating them with different color would be more flexible way.

I agree that the number should be 800-850W, too. I understand why some are paranoid to consider 80A (average +12V OPP tripping on 750 W PSUs) to be dangerous enough to cause burns. With smaller number it gets more and more arguable, especially considering the fact that this might skew the tier list quite a lot. That was the whole point of the discussion.

 

As for the second point, you are right on the too few PSU per tier argument. But shouldn't that be the case for "two top tiers of PSUs"? Like I said, "this tier should be the second best PSUs available on the market, so they better be ridiculously good." You don't really need to do anything to single-rail PSUs, as the main separating point for this new tier and tier A is multi-rail OCP.

 

Also, I have another idea. You can merge tier S and A+, with units with much higher quality given special colours and ones that we've been discussing (such as the BQ, Vengeance silver, etc.) moved a tier down to A with few notes.

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9 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

Also, I have another idea. You can merge tier S and A+, with units with much higher quality given special colours and ones that we've been discussing (such as the BQ, Vengeance silver, etc.) moved a tier down to A with few notes.

You don't follow me, we already did that, which i said twice already, we merged tier S to tier A+ and tier A- to tier A and given gold color go best units in tier (as in units from tier S in tier A+) and gray color to so-so units or otherwise the ones we're not quite sure about (like most of previously tier A- units).

I've posted some screenshots above, hopefully we'll see this revision going live in a week or so (after Luke would find the sneaky edit button).

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5 hours ago, Juular said:

You don't follow me, we already did that, which i said twice already, we merged tier S to tier A+ and tier A- to tier A and given gold color go best units in tier (as in units from tier S in tier A+) and gray color to so-so units or otherwise the ones we're not quite sure about (like most of previously tier A- units).

I've posted some screenshots above, hopefully we'll see this revision going live in a week or so (after Luke would find the sneaky edit button).

You only mentioned about merging S and A+ and give gold and gray colours, which would make further confusion as those gray PSUs tend to not be as good as the best A tier PSUs (even when considering the amount of amps on +12V when the PSU starts tripping). This is the objection I was trying to make all along. You didn't mention anything about the so-so PSUs we're discussing going down a tier. Also no mention of Vreg, ripple, etc. requirements to be made tighter.

 

You guys should also make the boundary clear. If 750 W is where it starts to matter, then <=650 W PSUs shouldn't be on the list unless it greatly stands out from others.

 

But I guess I was asking to much from you guys, please go ahead with the current revision. I don't want to delay any of that. Maybe you can consider doing this in the revision after.

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22 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

You didn't mention anything about the so-so PSUs we're discussing going down a tier. Also no mention of Vreg, ripple, etc. requirements to be made tighter.

Weird, anyway, It's all in the changelog, which is in the spreadsheet, take a look at it.

Gray color is essentially replaces tier A- and poses the same function inside tier A but now we can mark so units from other tiers too without adding a new tier for each one.

22 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

You guys should also make the boundary clear. If 750 W is where it starts to matter, then <=650 W PSUs shouldn't be on the list unless it greatly stands out from others.

That's what i've called a vote for, team decided not to split off low wattage units. I can understand that, even if we recommend multi-rail for only 750W+ builds, lower wattage units still there as a indication that they're multi-rail and for example, if you see tier A+ unit and tier A unit assuming they're both white (so they're both average), then tier A+ unit would be preferable. This makes sense actually.

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1 hour ago, Juular said:

Gray color is essentially replaces tier A- and poses the same function inside tier A but now we can mark so units from other tiers too without adding a new tier for each one.

That's not a tier lower, that's just a different colour. That poses the same issue we're discussing all along. No mention of tightening requirements either.

 

1 hour ago, Juular said:

That's what i've called a vote for, team decided not to split off low wattage units. I can understand that, even if we recommend multi-rail for only 750W+ builds, lower wattage units still there as a indication that they're multi-rail and for example, if you see tier A+ unit and tier A unit assuming they're both white (so they're both average), then tier A+ unit would be preferable. This makes sense actually.

They all don't necessarily need to be automatically split between different tiers. This isn't an issue when talking about A+ units that are as good as the best A units out there e.g. BWG 650, RMi 650. The problem is for A+ units that performs the same as the lower spectrum of A PSUs but goes to a higher tier when it has multi-rails e.g. BQ SP11, BFG 650. Since the boundary is set at 750W (which I and you both disagree, but still understands the reasoning), these 650W units should be moved down. The boundary is set at 750. This is the importnat distortion that we've been talking about all along.

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@boghubodaghi

1) I don't see the issue, it's pretty obvious IMO that inside a tier, priority for units choice goes like this Gold > White > Gray, in fact, it were less obvious before when we marked temporary position units just with italics. And tier S and A- had their own problems, fragmenting the tier list making it harder for a newbie to pick a PSU because for example, they see a Seasonic Focus FX in tier A- and Focus GX in tier A, they think that they're different and one is really worse than other, where the only difference there is that one doesn't work with Vegas and would be perfectly good choice otherwise. Same for tier S, it were standing out and honestly i wanted to merge it for a long time but we didn't have a way to do that, now we have. Although, maybe we should make it clearer that units marked with Gray should be really last picks, i.e Gold units from previous tier should be more preferable, but i can't think of the way to word that concise enough.

2) We've already discussed splitting of sub 750W units from tier A+ enough, with you and inside a team, it's not going to happen any time soon. And if you want to just split off 'inferior' units from there, we'll need to revise requirements for the tier which is against a purpose of tier A+, it's difference with tier A is strictly in the multi-rail as it's a complementary tier, if you disregard multi-rail then tier A+ and A are the same, if you wish, tier A+ is strictly informational tier, just telling you that those units are multi-rail, they're not inherently better because of that if you're not buying a very high wattage unit, 1.2kW maybe where multi-rail becomes an absolute must-have IMO. If anything, we could tighten requirements for tier A too then but this isn't going to happen soon either for reasons discussed above.

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Recently I've been looking for more information about some Deepcool power supplies that are quite popular where I'm from. More specifically, I was curious about the DA series power supplies that are currently placed in the tier C. What I found out is that there are two versions of these units -- the older one that has group regulation and the newer one with DC-DC.

 

These are the old models with group regulation:

These are newer ones with DC-DC (there is a letter 'N' at the end of the model name):

There is also a DP-BZ-DA700N which is clearly a group regulated unit (internals) that also has a letter 'N' in the model name.

So my question is, should these newer models (apart from that 700W model) be split and placed higher in the tier list? I only found the Cybenetics report for the older DP-BZ-DA500 (which I guess was used to determine its place in the tier list; it's not specified in the sources though) but haven't found anything about the newer ones, unfortunately.

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@Tautedorus Good find. DA-500/600N indeed looks like DC-DC and they claim DC-DC on specs sheet. Although i can't recognize this platform, must be some unknown OEM, we'll add DA-N in next revision with 500/600W being in tier B (grayed out, i.e not recommended if you have anything else) and 700W in tier C then.

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Anyone have any thoughts on the SilverStone ET650-G? I see its currently listed as B+ tier. The specs can be found here as well, https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?area=en&pid=767

 

I've tried to do research on it myself and look into any reviews I can before I posted here but there are very little to check out. The two or three that I can find seem positive.

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