intel accused of anti-competitive practices in india

[spartaman64]

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Live Law reported yesterday that the Competition Commission of India (CCI) ordered the Director General to investigate the company following a complaint from Matrix Info Systems. At issue: Allegations that Intel changed its warranty policy to give its authorized resellers an advantage over their competitors, which effectively doubled the cost of its processors as a result.

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Remember that most people using Intel processors aren't the company's true customers--they probably had to buy the CPU from a reseller. This means they're covered by a retailer's warranty, if one applies, but they're also covered by the manufacturer's warranty. Intel offers a global warranty in most of the world, but CCI said the company adopted an India-specific policy in 2016. That policy had more of an effect than you might expect.

The updated policy only allowed consumers in India to seek help directly from Intel if they bought their CPU from an Intel Authorized Distributor in India. That might sound redundant, but it's an important restriction because it means Indian consumers who imported a CPU from an authorized reseller outside India can't seek warranty service from the company within India. They have to request service from the country of purchase.

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Matrix Info Systems told CCI this gives Intel Authorized Distributors in India an unfair advantage over their non-sanctioned competitors. It's not hard to imagine why: choosing to buy a CPU from a company that Intel hasn't partnered with in India makes it much harder to request support if something goes wrong. Anyone worried about buying a defective CPU, or encountering issues after purchase, would have to take that into account.

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Matrix Info Systems told CCI this gives Intel Authorized Distributors in India an unfair advantage over their non-sanctioned competitors. It's not hard to imagine why: choosing to buy a CPU from a company that Intel hasn't partnered with in India makes it much harder to request support if something goes wrong. Anyone worried about buying a defective CPU, or encountering issues after purchase, would have to take that into account.

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a CPU purchased from an Intel Authorized Distributor costs 2.6x as much as the same processor would from a reseller in the U.S. Intel doesn't set these prices--it merely offers pricing guidance via MSRPs--but it does get to decide who it partners with for the Intel Authorized Distributor program. If those partners have an unfair advantage, such as easier-to-claim warranty service, things start to look more than a little suspect.

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Only Intel
Products sold by Intel Authorised Distributors in India and purchased in India are eligible for warranty service within India. 

(from the india warranty document this or an equivalent isn't present in the US document)

intel india warranty: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/processors/sb/IntelBoxedProcessorsLimitedWarrantyMarch2016India.pdf

intel warranty excluding india and australia: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/processors/Limited_Warranty_8.5x11_for_Web_English.pdf

source: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-accused-anti-competitive-practices-india,40262.html

 

If intel can offer warranty for "unauthorized sellers" in the US I don't know why they cannot for india. And I'm not sure why they would do this as I can't see any obvious benefits to intel if their resellers are selling their product at a jacked up prices surely it would only hurt them. So why intel would want to support those practices and limit consumer choice is beyond me. 

 

[MeatFeastMan]

Intel have been playing dirty a bit too much recently and this is more proof of it. We've seen a few clearly Intel-paid articles pop up every now and then, I remember one about a month or two ago claiming EPYC 2nd Gen was extremely inefficient and hot despite being heavily downclocked and on 7nm....

 

And I saw an article a few days ago talking about the 9700k being on sale for $350, saying it was $60 off. Except it was already on sale for $350 for ages...

 

The bribery and dirty tactics must end. This is the equivalent of cheating in a boxing match by putting something hard in your gloves.

 

Seriously...just accept 10nm was a disaster, move to Intel 7nm and come back for revenge. There is no need for this.

 

 

[pas008]

prices vary country to country so price shit doesnt matter if its 5x

 

warranty looks right

many companies have warranties that are only valid from authorized dealers

especially audio and video equipment

if I import something from anywhere usually I have to try to deal with it from where I got it from, many companies make you do this also

US based consumer gets the perks cause US based company

 

[spartaman64]

6 minutes ago, pas008 said:

prices vary country to country so price shit doesnt matter if its 5x

 

warranty looks right

many companies have warranties that are only valid from authorized dealers

especially audio and video equipment

if I import something from anywhere usually I have to try to deal with it from where I got it from, many companies make you do this also

US based consumer gets the perks cause US based company

 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005862/processors.html intel only has a special warranty for india and australia and i dont see anywhere in the australia warranty that it only applies to authorized resellers

[pas008]

4 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005862/processors.html intel only has a special warranty for india and australia and i dont see anywhere in the australia warranty that it only applies to authorized resellers

2 different countries with different laws with different markets,

[kelvinhall05]

Am I allowed to accuse Intel of being noncompetitive by locking Clovertrail to only Windows and making it refuse to run any code that wasn't signed by Microsoft? Cause that's pretty damn noncompetitive. Imagine how much longer Clovertrail tablets could be used if all they did was allow Linux on them.

[spartaman64]

3 minutes ago, pas008 said:

2 different countries with different laws with different markets,

? there are 195 countries in the world and 193 of them use the standard warranty and the other one that has a special warranty doesnt have this restriction so only india does. unless you can point to a law in india that say a company has to do this i dont buy that there is some special case that india has that no other 194 country does

edit: intel specifically cites counterfeiting but counterfeiting is a problem in other countries like china also but china doesnt have a special warranty like india

[Blademaster91]

4 minutes ago, pas008 said:

2 different countries with different laws with different markets,

Different markets, quite a few companies do this,not just intel. Maybe to prevent counterfeit items? It sucks but they must have a reasoning. And we as tech enthusiasts whining about a warranty, when you overclock the warranty is considered void anyway.

[spartaman64]

Just now, Blademaster91 said:

Different markets, quite a few companies do this,not just intel. Maybe to prevent counterfeit items? It sucks but they must have a reasoning. And we as tech enthusiasts whining about a warranty, when you overclock the warranty is considered void anyway.

but its hard to believe that counterfeiting is only a problem in india and not in china or any other country

[TheSLSAMG]

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Indian consumers who imported a CPU from an authorized reseller outside India can't seek warranty service from the company within India. They have to request service from the country of purchase.

This isn't an abnormal practice. I know that ASUS, Gigabyte and MSI have no international warranty for their BYOC components. That being said I think it's poor practice from the companies themselves. If they offer the same product in that region, they should be willing and capable to support it even if it wasn't purchased there. I do think it's odd that Intel is specifically singling out India, but they may have legitimate reasons for doing so. I don't know.

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a CPU purchased from an Intel Authorized Distributor costs 2.6x as much as the same processor would from a reseller in the U.S. Intel doesn't set these prices--it merely offers pricing guidance via MSRPs--but it does get to decide who it partners with for the Intel Authorized Distributor program. If those partners have an unfair advantage, such as easier-to-claim warranty service, things start to look more than a little suspect.

A couple of things to this point. First, I don't really think it's much of an argument on its' own. Products tend to end up being more expensive outside of the US. The 9900K is $490 in the US, $520 in Australia, $540 in Germany $570 in India from Amazon, $610 in the UK and $565 in Sweden (all prices converted to USD). Most of Intel's 14nm fabs are located in the US, with their only other 14nm fabs being located in Israel and Ireland, so it makes sense that the chips are cheaper in the US.

 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/partner/where-to-buy/overview.html - Intel's list of authorized distributors. 

 

One retailer that Intel lists as authorized distributors for India is RP Tech. RP Tech doesn't seem to have anything newer than 8th gen listed on their site, so we'll go by the 8600K. The 8600K costs about $220 on Amazon US, $290 on Amazon India and $340 on RP Tech. That's about 55% or 1.55x as much as the US price without factoring in import duties and shipping from Amazon US, or about 1.2x more expensive than Amazon India. It's a really difficult comparison to make though because Intel doesn't have a big list of authorized retailers. Of the four retailers that sell client products, two of them don't make their prices available to view online, RP Tech doesn't sell any 9th generation chips (I'll also note that none of their 8th gen chips are currently available, so I'm going on the idea that they were previously available at some point) and Mouser is difficult to calculate shipping and duties for. It must be a specific chip that costs 2.6x as much, or I might just not have much of a window into the culture since I'm in the States. I'm sure someone local could be more helpful if they could visit a brick-and-mortar or call one of the other client retailers that Intel specifies.

 

It's a difficult situation for sure, but for some reasons I'm not lighting my torches and dusting off the pitchforks yet.

[thorhammerz]

 

1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

If intel can offer warranty for "unauthorized sellers" in the US I don't know why they cannot for india. 

A company (any company, not just Intel) offering warranty services "above and beyond" whatever is written in the policy is solely at the discretion of company itself (and/or on the mood of the guy handling the claim).

[mr moose]

 

The opening quote directly infers this practice caused the cost difference, I really don't think that is true.  Historically you'll probably note that all products bought in India are more expensive than imports @Rohith_Kumar_Sp ?

 

As for it being different in Australia, that is because we have very tight consumer laws and as such it can be very difficult to get any help with overseas purchases.  Most companies already have to include a special note in products bound for Australia indicating that we are covered by law for more than what is written in the warranty. 

[spartaman64]

Just now, thorhammerz said:

 

A company (any company, not just Intel) offering warranty services "above and beyond" whatever is written in the policy is solely at the discretion of company itself.

i dont consider that "above and beyond" offering warranty only if you buy from a handful of resellers is what i consider below expectations

[Rune]

Apple does far worse and gets away with it. I'll side with Intel here for making smart business decisions.

[spartaman64]

Just now, Rune said:

Apple does far worse and gets away with it. I'll side with Intel here for making smart business decisions.

idk i dont even see how this benefits intel it just benefits the resellers. in fact i think it would hurt intel if anything if people buy less intel processors because of the price

[Rune]

4 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

idk i dont even see how this benefits intel it just benefits the resellers. in fact i think it would hurt intel if anything if people buy less intel processors because of the price

It would hurt intel far more if they were sold as-is without warranty at a 'lower' cost. Being priced as a premium product can arguably be a good thing. Being sold as a product with no manufacturer standing behind it is a far worse outcome.

[spartaman64]

Just now, Rune said:

It would hurt intel far more if they were sold as-is without warranty at a 'lower' cost. Being priced as a premium product can arguable be a good thing. Being sold as a product with no manufacturer standing behind it is a far worse outcome.

no intel doesnt get any of the inflated cost it all goes to the reseller afaik. 

[Arika]

I think we can all agree intel has done some shady shit in the past. This is not one of them. Of course authorised distributors get more benefits.... That's why they are authorised distributors. It's not just a fancy label they can slap on their door. 

[thorhammerz]

44 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

i dont consider that "above and beyond" offering warranty only if you buy from a handful of resellers is what i consider below expectations

Expectations (what you the consumer might desire) is not equivalent to the legal obligations (what must fulfilled) by the company .

 

 

[thorhammerz]

55 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The opening quote directly infers this practice caused the cost difference, I really don't think that is true.  Historically you'll probably note that all products bought in India are more expensive than imports @Rohith_Kumar_Sp ?

The Indians have only themselves to blame for the unfavorable consumer costs imposed upon them, as a result of extremely protectionist foreign-investment and foreign-business policies imposed by their governments of the past decades.

[Loote]

Were there an issue like too many CPUs going into warranty in India?

All in all, I'm on the customer side, in EU you have 2 years of warranty where the seller has to fix your problem, but they get the money from the manufacturer back, even if there's 1 year written on the box and you show up 18 months after purchase.

On the other hand CPUs are, from my experience, the least likely to break down out of PC's components. I've even had more problems with cases than CPUs(USB ports breaking etc.).

[mr moose]

8 hours ago, thorhammerz said:

The Indians have only themselves to blame for the unfavorable consumer costs imposed upon them, as a result of extremely protectionist foreign-investment and foreign-business policies imposed by their governments of the past decades.

Given their history with English occupation and the whole EIT I can hardly blame them for wanting to protect from foreign control. 

[thorhammerz]

5 hours ago, mr moose said:

Given their history with English occupation and the whole EIT I can hardly blame them for wanting to protect from foreign control. 

Not just the British.

 

Their history is peppered by civil war between regional factions (e.g. "regional kingdoms"), and invasion to outright conquest by foreign powers possessing a logistical and/or technological advantage (Mongols, British, Arabs / Muslims, even the Hellenites for a brief period on the Western portions) who can swoop in whenever those divisions crack the place open just a wee bit too much. 

 

Doesn't help much that their core population centres are neither insulated nor integrated from the population centres of next-door Pakistan... that ensures perpetual conflict until they manage to get their shit in order to subjugate them (for a time, until central power weakens enough for things to crack apart all over again).

[spartaman64]

18 hours ago, Arika S said:

I think we can all agree intel has done some shady shit in the past. This is not one of them. Of course authorised distributors get more benefits.... That's why they are authorised distributors. It's not just a fancy label they can slap on their door. 

if its so obvious then why do no other country's authorized reseller have this?

18 hours ago, thorhammerz said:

Expectations (what you the consumer might desire) is not equivalent to the legal obligations (what must fulfilled) by the company .

 

 

i never said anything about legal i dont agree with matrix on that part. but are we at the point where we let companies get a free pass with anything as long as they are not breaking a law?

[The King of the Undead]