Help me decide if a car makes sence to us. Budget question

[Trapezoid]

Country: US. My wife and I make 35K a year before tax. We have no debt at all, we pay around 1000 a month on rent with all utilities and 200 a month in food. We got 12k on our savings account but we surely do not wish to spend it all on a car. My commute is like 5 miles each way. Insurance would come at about 80-100 dollars a month. However it is hard to come up realistic yearly milage to account for the cost of gas. Bus public transort costs around 160 dollars for a yearly pass on the contrary. Though we would love to go on road trips around once each 2 months. We have no credit score as we never borrowed money before. We are also concerned about the cost of mainting a car over a period of 5 years. 

[FUIT1985]

You know the answer.  No one can choose for you.

[kelvinhall05]

How about you and your wife get some ebikes? It'll be great for your commute and they're cheaper than a car and more ecological.

 

 

No offence, but in your current financial situation, I don't think a car is a great idea. *maybe* a used Corolla or something, but idk. I wouldn't go with a car.

[Trapezoid]

6 minutes ago, kelvinhall05 said:

How about you and your wife get some ebikes? It'll be great for your commute and they're cheaper than a car and more ecological.

 

 

No offence, but in your current financial situation, I don't think a car is a great idea. *maybe* a used Corolla or something, but idk. I wouldn't go with a car.

I thought so too, I rather save up some money than pay all these expenses on a car and perhaps rent one when we go for road trips. No offence done, I think the bus will be nice for us. I just see a car as a bit of a money blackhole. hopefully one I am done with this PhD things will get better. What ebikes should we be looking at, something reliable and with nice warranties.

[kelvinhall05]

3 minutes ago, Trapezoid said:

I thought so too, I rather save up some money than pay all these expenses on a car and perhaps rent one when we go for road trips. No offence done, I think the bus will be nice for us. I just see a car as a bit of a money blackhole. hopefully one I am done with this PhD things will get better. What ebikes should we be looking at, something reliable and with nice warranties.

If you already have nice pedal bikes, get a bafang mid-drive kit and some battery that suits you. You'd probably be looking at $1000-1500 per bike depending on what you get and if you get a kit or a full bike.

[PlayStation 2]

Would you be going used or new? I'd also keep into account the car's reliability and what you need rather than buying something that isn't necessary and, more importantly, not reliable.

[Otto_iii]

A few questions:

1. How much do you spend each month ordering stuff to your home because of the lack of a car?  Have you made it a habit to use uber, grubhub, etc and how much is that actually costing you?

2. How many events or occasions have you had to miss because of this, and what priority and how difficult is it to visit friends and family?

3. Do you live in a house or apartment and are you willing to learn basic maintenance like oil, brakes, coolant etc?  In the case of a apartment its sometimes okay to do work but many apartments frown on it, that said maybe you have a friends house nearby, which brings me to 4

 

4.  Do you have any friends who have maybe hinted at being car people, not specifically just liking cars, but atleast just being thrifty and working on them etc, and could they help you out at all?  If you do and the friend is both capable of working on cars and finds them interesting they are a ideal person if nothing else to bring along, if you can, when looking for a used car.  If they are young feel free to explain how important cost, utility and reliability, is as its easy for car people to be tempted to recommend stuff they've dreamed (cool but not practical)  more then logical choices.

My own opinion:  If enough of the concerns above are relevant,  I would completely recommend a used car but you ideally want to go for a 3000-6000$ car if you don't want headaches, the 5k$ range in particular should be full of cars with years and years of use in them, but that might not be a option.  2-3k$ is totally possible to find such a car but it requires knowing more about cars so you can spot a deal, and not get stuck with issues that would be obvious to some but not apparent issues of deterioration to others.  The freedom it grants is honestly priceless in my opinion, but i know many people make do without and disagree. 

Used cars to look at:  I would recommend mostly Japanese cars, namely Toyota(Lexus, older used Lexuses can be a good value option actually), Mazda, then Honda/Acura (not less reliable and aren't experienced with buying used cars and interested much in them.  Maintenance is just usually harder), NOT usually Subaru though (many are fine but if you don't know the specific model and engines reliability can be some of the worst), often Mitsubishi is good too.  More recent Hyundias aren't too bad either.  Keep in mind many compact American cars, especially with Ford, are from one of these brands and just rebadged, Ford Fiesta is a Mazda 2, Ford Focus is a Mazda 3, Ford Fusion is a Mazda 6, Pontiac Vibe was a Toyota Matrix etc (few other examples i cant think)

Estimates: completely shoeballing this estimate but i think it will be about 1750-2225$ a year if you include insurance and fuel, maintenance, drive a used car with low insurance and good gas milage, this could go up to 3000$ because of insurance though depending on type of car and area you live, so when looking into which car to buy might be worth looking at the premium you or your spouse will pay, if you both can drive ideally put her on as primary driver.  I would also if you can manage it highly recommend buying a car outright and not paying any debt ofc.  I don't know you but i think 5,000-8,000 miles a year is a reasonable estimate for yourself. 

[AngryBeaver]

7 hours ago, Trapezoid said:

Country: US. My wife and I make 35K a year before tax. We have no debt at all, we pay around 1000 a month on rent with all utilities and 200 a month in food. We got 12k on our savings account but we surely do not wish to spend it all on a car. My commute is like 5 miles each way. Insurance would come at about 80-100 dollars a month. However it is hard to come up realistic yearly milage to account for the cost of gas. Bus public transort costs around 160 dollars for a yearly pass on the contrary. Though we would love to go on road trips around once each 2 months. We have no credit score as we never borrowed money before. We are also concerned about the cost of mainting a car over a period of 5 years. 

Well you are probably rather young from the sound of things. So you might not have the need now you will in a few years. Also if you can get bus transport for 160 a year that is INSANE. When I worked downtown and took the bus it was about 140 a month. Also are you over 26? If you aren't over 26 yet then your insurance will be higher than 80-100 a month.

 

Now looking at other things like your 200/m food cost... that seems pretty low to me. I would estimate it around 300-400 a month personally.

 

I think the biggest question here is do you and your wife make 35k each pretax? If so you would have around 50k income after tax. If not then you will have much less. The best thing you can do is this. Get a budgeting app even a free one like mint. Figure out what you spend every month and how much you have left over. Then decide if you want to pay for a car or not.

 

Now if you do want a car just pick something used around 3-5 years old. Open a credit union account (if you don't have one) and have them handle the loan side of things. Try to put down 10-15% if you can and go for a 3 year or so term. Just make sure you get decent interest rates (which is why I recommended a credit union with your credit history). You should be able to get a very nice car with a monthly payment that won't break the bank. You would also have money left in savings still. The main thing is just to find out what your left over is each month before doing it.

 

Lastly, If you don't have a college degree I would recommend considering a 2 year degree or maybe learning a trade. You would be making an investment in your future that would greatly pay off in a few years. Just my 2 cents.

[MadyTehWolfie]

Get a old toyota or a 90's civic those things last forever and are dirt cheap used

[Otto_iii]

 

1 hour ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Get a old toyota or a 90's civic those things last forever and are dirt cheap used

I appreciate this sentiment and up to about early 2010s i would happily agree to recommending 90s stuff but not nearing 2020, not unless you are the personality type to happily take on becoming a bush mechanic or happen to have a hobbyist friend who will work on fairly major issues (suspension bushing, strut towers, wiring gremlins) for cheap.  The cars are built fantastic, as are the more recent 00s, but even if the milage isn't high and all the engine bits are in great working order, plastics and rubbers holding your big chunk of steel together still degrade regardless with time even if not used much.

With suspension bushings in particular ive never seen something older then 15 years that wasn't a mess undernieth, even if the hard mechanic bits were in tip top shape.  You can drive cars with shot to shit bushings, ive done this on and off for years, but i highly wouldn't recommend it to somebody.  Beyond that basic safety concerns, stuff from 00s is inherently far safer if the worst happens, even if the 90s was likewise a huge HUGE improvement over decades before it. 

[Flying Sausages]

Get a bicycle. No insurance and cheap to maintenance. 

[Trapezoid]

44 minutes ago, Otto_iii said:

A few questions:

1. How much do you spend each month ordering stuff to your home because of the lack of a car?  Have you made it a habit to use uber, grubhub, etc and how much is that actually costing you?

2. How many events or occasions have you had to miss because of this, and what priority and how difficult is it to visit friends and family?

3. Do you live in a house or apartment and are you willing to learn basic maintenance like oil, brakes, coolant etc?  In the case of a apartment its sometimes okay to do work but many apartments frown on it, that said maybe you have a friends house nearby, which brings me to 4

 

4.  Do you have any friends who have maybe hinted at being car people, not specifically just liking cars, but atleast just being thrifty and working on them etc, and could they help you out at all?  If you do and the friend is both capable of working on cars and finds them interesting they are a ideal person if nothing else to bring along, if you can, when looking for a used car.  If they are young feel free to explain how important cost, utility and reliability, is as its easy for car people to be tempted to recommend stuff they've dreamed (cool but not practical)  more then logical choices.

My own opinion:  If enough of the concerns above are relevant,  I would completely recommend a used car but you ideally want to go for a 3000-6000$ car if you don't want headaches, the 5k$ range in particular should be full of cars with years and years of use in them, but that might not be a option.  2-3k$ is totally possible to find such a car but it requires knowing more about cars so you can spot a deal, and not get stuck with issues that would be obvious to some but not apparent issues of deterioration to others.  The freedom it grants is honestly priceless in my opinion, but i know many people make do without and disagree. 

Used cars to look at:  I would recommend mostly Japanese cars, namely Toyota(Lexus, older used Lexuses can be a good value option actually), Mazda, then Honda/Acura (not less reliable and aren't experienced with buying used cars and interested much in them.  Maintenance is just usually harder), NOT usually Subaru though (many are fine but if you don't know the specific model and engines reliability can be some of the worst), often Mitsubishi is good too.  More recent Hyundias aren't too bad either.  Keep in mind many compact American cars, especially with Ford, are from one of these brands and just rebadged, Ford Fiesta is a Mazda 2, Ford Focus is a Mazda 3, Ford Fusion is a Mazda 6, Pontiac Vibe was a Toyota Matrix etc (few other examples i cant think)

Estimates: completely shoeballing this estimate but i think it will be about 1750-2225$ a year if you include insurance and fuel, maintenance, drive a used car with low insurance and good gas milage, this could go up to 3000$ because of insurance though depending on type of car and area you live, so when looking into which car to buy might be worth looking at the premium you or your spouse will pay, if you both can drive ideally put her on as primary driver.  I would also if you can manage it highly recommend buying a car outright and not paying any debt ofc.  I don't know you but i think 5,000-8,000 miles a year is a reasonable estimate for yourself. 

Thank you so much for your very elaborate response!
1) we really do not use taxis or any other mean of transport besides the buses. Maybe twice a year when we do go abroad and need to go to the airport and back home. But that is never over 40 dollars total. We would thought like to go on road trips as our time in the US is rather limited. We are not from here and we are just here with my student visa for my PhD. 
2) Frinds all live nearby, all our family live in different contients. She is in eurasia and I in southamerica. 
3,4) I would surely would like to get dirty with out car, Though we do live in an apartment in a rather quiet and good area. I have no idea how it would sit with the landlord but we could always ask. I do have a few friends who would help me check out a car as I have no idea on what to look for nor does my wife. 

I do plan on paying cash for the car on most of my escenarios. However i too came with arround 3000 dollars a year which is far too much for our budget I think. 

 

[circeseye]

just get a used car....dont buy new....keep an eye out look for a vehicle that will work and is cheap...avoid a loan if possible...you can get a pretty damn good vehicle between 3 to 6k

[Flying Sausages]

2 minutes ago, circeseye said:

just get a used car....dont buy new....keep an eye out look for a vehicle that will work and is cheap...avoid a loan if possible...you can get a pretty damn good vehicle between 3 to 6k

Get a trust mechanic to do PPI on used cars because you don't want to buy lemon cars. 

[PlayStation 2]

35 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Get a old toyota or a 90's civic those things last forever and are dirt cheap used

Problem with Civics is that they're not easy to find in good shape. Especially if OP was searching for a 92-95 Civic, those almost exclusively come in Manual and dickheads like to drive them hard because "DURRRRR HONDA HARD SHIFT!!!!!".

In this sort of situation, cars like the Corolla (which is what I'm guessing you're implying), Mazda Protege, Chevy Cavaliers, even something like a Kia Spectra in good shape wouldn't be anything bad to consider.

[Trapezoid]

39 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Well you are probably rather young from the sound of things. So you might not have the need now you will in a few years. Also if you can get bus transport for 160 a year that is INSANE. When I worked downtown and took the bus it was about 140 a month. Also are you over 26? If you aren't over 26 yet then your insurance will be higher than 80-100 a month.

 

Now looking at other things like your 200/m food cost... that seems pretty low to me. I would estimate it around 300-400 a month personally.

 

I think the biggest question here is do you and your wife make 35k each pretax? If so you would have around 50k income after tax. If not then you will have much less. The best thing you can do is this. Get a budgeting app even a free one like mint. Figure out what you spend every month and how much you have left over. Then decide if you want to pay for a car or not.

 

Now if you do want a car just pick something used around 3-5 years old. Open a credit union account (if you don't have one) and have them handle the loan side of things. Try to put down 10-15% if you can and go for a 3 year or so term. Just make sure you get decent interest rates (which is why I recommended a credit union with your credit history). You should be able to get a very nice car with a monthly payment that won't break the bank. You would also have money left in savings still. The main thing is just to find out what your left over is each month before doing it.

 

Lastly, If you don't have a college degree I would recommend considering a 2 year degree or maybe learning a trade. You would be making an investment in your future that would greatly pay off in a few years. Just my 2 cents.

We are sadly on a tight budget. The two of us make 35k a year as that is the money i get from my PhD stipend and she cannot work in the US as I am on a student visa and she is on a dependant visa. I am 21 years old, already graduated from college, manged to save some money as the scholarship i got exceeded my expenses. Since I am an student the city gives us 50% discount a year on transport so the yearly price is really 160 for the bus pass. I used to live in Denver and there bus prices were madness from what I am used to in other countries i lived. 

we also really do spend just about 200 a month for the two of us at home. We never eat out though, and dont eat much meat either. Plus the school as a cool shop were you can get anything for free so we do compensate with that. How it is looking, i think we will end up getting 2 radbikes (ebikes like the one Taran used to use for 2800 for the pair) as a car truly seems like a money pit at the moment. Maybe if I get into a posdoc later our income from an stipend would double and she would be allowed to work in the US. But that would be something only possible in a few years from now

[Donut417]

8 hours ago, Trapezoid said:

Country: US. My wife and I make 35K a year before tax. We have no debt at all, we pay around 1000 a month on rent with all utilities and 200 a month in food. We got 12k on our savings account but we surely do not wish to spend it all on a car. My commute is like 5 miles each way. Insurance would come at about 80-100 dollars a month. However it is hard to come up realistic yearly milage to account for the cost of gas. Bus public transort costs around 160 dollars for a yearly pass on the contrary. Though we would love to go on road trips around once each 2 months. We have no credit score as we never borrowed money before. We are also concerned about the cost of mainting a car over a period of 5 years. 

Lots of people around my parts ride bikes. Just gotta make sure you don’t get ran the fuck over. I live in Metro Detroit by the way. No public transport. But if your 5 min away, I’d just get a simple bike. Might suck in the winter but at least it gets you from A to B. 

 

With cars especially if your going used. At the price point your probably looking at. There is bound to be issues with that car. Here in Michigan we call them beaters. Some are out right not safe to drive but people still do. Also have to think about insurance, tags, license fees, oil changes, tires, wind shield wipers and fluid. It comes to a great cost. Let’s not forget the biggest cost, fuel. Price differ state to state. On top of if OPEC is play ball with us or not. 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

If you want a new vehicle with a factory warranty and everything, perhaps take a look at a Mitsubishi Mirage if there is a Mitsubishi dealer in your area. Yes, these cars looks dull and franky drive and feel like something from the 90s and early 20s, but they're inexpensive. Here's an example of a brand new Mirage with an automatic transmission for less than 10 grand. 

 

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=469684033&zip=98109&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D98109%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Don%26modelCodeList%3DMIRAGE%26makeCodeList%3DMIT%26searchRadius%3D50%26transmissionCodes%3DAUT&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&modelCodeList=MIRAGE&makeCodeList=MIT&searchRadius=50&clickType=spotlight

[Anghammarad]

Just form my own experience over the years... 

 

I live in Hamburg, germany, which has had an awesome public transport system. the Rail system (subways and other inner city rails) have been ridden without much maintenance, so right now on the S lines, every day there are trains 10-20 minutes late are a whole one goes kaputt and you have to wait for the next. 

 

My then still alive wife and I though always about getting a car. But we live in a part where reaching train central or the airport via bus/subway only takes 15 minutes. 

 

My communte to work door to door maybe 35-40 minutes. 

 

Then we have far less parking spots here than needed, so we decided to go without a car.

 

If needed I could get a company car or a rental or order a cab.

 

Now a little over a year ago I bought my first car (used one) because the commute to work woujl have been a 1,5 hours trip each way without regarding the usual problems here like broken train, broken train station, aww you wanted to get home?... With the car each way is around 30-40 minutes, depending on the traffic and road construction works. That alone is reason for me enough to buy the car. 

 

Fuel here is a lot more expensive than in the us, about insurance, I really don't know how much they cost in the US, here I pay about 140 € each month (full coverage). 

 

but my yearly income is nearly double. which has not much to say, life isn't cheap around here... 

 

So I would go for rental at first... see if you really drive that much... rent for the weekend or a week. Driving to work with your own car makes you more flexible regarding working hours, but you lose the freedom to read a book or consume news or play games on your mobile as well. 

 

 

[Otto_iii]

2 hours ago, Trapezoid said:

We are sadly on a tight budget. The two of us make 35k a year as that is the money i get from my PhD stipend and she cannot work in the US as I am on a student visa and she is on a dependant visa. I am 21 years old, already graduated from college, manged to save some money as the scholarship i got exceeded my expenses. Since I am an student the city gives us 50% discount a year on transport so the yearly price is really 160 for the bus pass. I used to live in Denver and there bus prices were madness from what I am used to in other countries i lived. 

we also really do spend just about 200 a month for the two of us at home. We never eat out though, and dont eat much meat either. Plus the school as a cool shop were you can get anything for free so we do compensate with that. How it is looking, i think we will end up getting 2 radbikes (ebikes like the one Taran used to use for 2800 for the pair) as a car truly seems like a money pit at the moment. Maybe if I get into a posdoc later our income from an stipend would double and she would be allowed to work in the US. But that would be something only possible in a few years from now

 

I think the fact you are looking into this is good, what i was originally going to say was atleast you are trying to look into it and educate yourself about the possibilities incase things change and improve in some way, and even if that means you can't swing it at the moment its only for the better, nothing worse of buying something you can't maintain costs of, becoming indebted to and tanking your own livelihood, even if yes, a car is really useful.  Especially with the PhD i can imagine things very well could change financially, but its still always smarter to save, always. 

I think the radbikes are a smart compromise all things considered, i was going to come back and recommend a motorcycle, but the radbike makes even more sense.  If you or your wife start finding a bit more flexibility and start up a family and a car might become really called for, then atleast at that point you'll have whatever knowledge you've gained from this in your pocket, and be better prepared for it 

[Guest]

My 2 cents:

• Buy some (e)bikes
• If you need a car to go on a road trip --> rent it.
• Keep your money for something else.

 

Obviously you don't need a car. You use buses, 5 miles is really not that much.

[Kawaii Koneko]

It certainly sounds like you can afford it solely based on those numbers. It sounds like you want one and you have more saved up than most Americans making far more than you do. So I say go for it. You can't beat the freedom of having your own car.

 

On 8/11/2019 at 11:36 AM, Trapezoid said:

I thought so too, I rather save up some money than pay all these expenses on a car and perhaps rent one when we go for road trips. No offence done, I think the bus will be nice for us. I just see a car as a bit of a money blackhole. hopefully one I am done with this PhD things will get better. What ebikes should we be looking at, something reliable and with nice warranties.

You just need the right car. Most Toyotas will run with very minimal maintenance needed especially with the little miles you will put on. You could spend $5k and get yourself a nice used Lexus ES that will get decent MPG and require little more than routine maintenance since it has Toyota reliability.

 

15 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

If you want a new vehicle with a factory warranty and everything, perhaps take a look at a Mitsubishi Mirage if there is a Mitsubishi dealer in your area. Yes, these cars looks dull and franky drive and feel like something from the 90s and early 20s, but they're inexpensive. Here's an example of a brand new Mirage with an automatic transmission for less than 10 grand. 

 

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=469684033&zip=98109&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D98109%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Don%26modelCodeList%3DMIRAGE%26makeCodeList%3DMIT%26searchRadius%3D50%26transmissionCodes%3DAUT&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&modelCodeList=MIRAGE&makeCodeList=MIT&searchRadius=50&clickType=spotlight

No need for that when they can just pay cash for an older Toyota or Lexus that will just run forever even on high miles. Those things hardly ever break.

 

Besides:

 

You are much better off with an older Toyota or Lexus like I said. If i had to drive this Mirage, I'd rather ride a bike.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

6 hours ago, Kawaii Koneko said:

 

No need for that when they can just pay cash for an older Toyota or Lexus that will just run forever even on high miles. Those things hardly ever break.

 

You are much better off with an older Toyota or Lexus like I said. If i had to drive this Mirage, I'd rather ride a bike.

Still get car inspected like any other vehicle because every time you're buying a used car, you're buying someone else's service history. Who knows if the person has been treating the car well and has been doing the required maintenance. 

 

It's up to their risk tolerance really. Either buy a new cheap brand new vehicle with a factory warranty or buy a cheaper used runabout that in theory shouldn't have any issues. But still be prepared to replace some parts. Toyotas aren't made of magical pixie dust. Parts will wear out, just like any other car. The reason why you hear these stories about Toyotas running for hundreds of thousands of miles is because the owners took good care the car. 

 

If it was an example where the previous owner high revved it, didn't change the oil until it reached 15,000 miles, etc., then expect it to be a rolling pile of crap. 

 

[PlayStation 2]

6 hours ago, Kawaii Koneko said:

No need for that when they can just pay cash for an older Toyota or Lexus that will just run forever even on high miles. Those things hardly ever break.

 

Besides:

 

You are much better off with an older Toyota or Lexus like I said. If i had to drive this Mirage, I'd rather ride a bike.

If you are a car person, you would be better off buying an older Corolla or an IS200 or whatever the fuck you could name off. If you aren't... maybe the peace of mind of having a warranty there if something does go wrong is worth the cost.

I am and, frankly, a decent amount of us here are car people. I'd personally get a civilian Crown Victoria and call it a day over a new Mirage or a Versa or a Spark and for used cars, a Corolla or an GS300 or an Accord, but some people just don't have or want to have the know-how to dick around with cars and for them, a new car is worth the expense if it means they can take it to the dealer and get it serviced with no real issue.

[dalekphalm]

Given everything I’ve read here, my advice: just rent a car when you need one. 

 

Cars have a lot of hidden costs. The obvious ones: regular maintenance (every 8000 or 16000 km or so, depending on the car), gas,

insurance. But despite what people say about buying “x car - it’ll run forever with minimal maintenance!”

 

They can’t promise that. Every car has breakdowns, regardless of how reliable it is. Breakdowns will be unexpected, and sooner or later you’ll have a surprise bill of like $1500 for a repair. 

 

That'll be fine once you’re done school and both you and your wife have jobs. Until then? Stick with the bus, and rent when you need

it. 

 

Look into your school association - they might have an affiliation program where you get discounts on rentals.