Best possible memory for ryzen 3000

[Intelfreak]

I am in the middle of finding the best possible memomy kit for my upcoming ryzen 3000 build.

 

It seems ryzen 3000 memory sweetspot is 3600 mhz with as low timings as possible. So far i have found this G.skill Trident Z Neo kit and this is the 3600 mhz kit with the lowest timings i can find so far. But before i orders these memory, i wanted to ask if other have or know of 3600 mhz kit with lower timings than the kit i found.

 

 

this is the kit i am talking about. As said clock is 3600 mhz and rated timings is CL14-15-15-35 1.40V.

 

https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/326/1562839044/F4-3600C14D-16GTZN-Specification

[Princess Luna]

1 minute ago, Intelfreak said:

As said clock is 3600 mhz and rated timings is CL14-15-15-35 1.40V.

I'd fine tune it to 3400mhz 14-14-14-34, Ryzen is a bit disliking of odd Timing numbers, all in all you won't find a better memory than this so if you're comofrtable paying such a high price go for it.

[Jurrunio]

best possible memory is those specifically tuned by the user. Not some XMP profile in a kit of memory.

[Intelfreak]

5 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

I'd fine tune it to 3400mhz 14-14-14-34, Ryzen is a bit disliking of odd Timing numbers, all in all you won't find a better memory than this so if you're comofrtable paying such a high price go for it.

Original i dit not plan to offer so much on memory. But to my dissapoint ryzen 3000 turned out to be a bad overclocker and i else planed a custom waterloop to cramp every thing out of it. But as it dont overclock well. I desided to just stick with a good air cooler and offer more money on memory in sted as that seems to be a better way to cramp more performance out of ryzen.

[Intelfreak]

2 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

best possible memory is those specifically tuned by the user. Not some XMP profile in a kit of memory.

Oh dont worry, i am planning to manuel a just timings as xmp profiles tend to suck. But buy memory with al ready low timing rate, i hope that will a low to cramp timings even lower. Like 3600 mhz  14-14-14-35.

[Princess Luna]

14 minutes ago, Intelfreak said:

. But to my dissapoint ryzen 3000 turned out to be a bad overclocker and i else planed a custom waterloop to cramp every thing out of it.

It depends the way you see it, from a value perspective it's far more appealing having a CPU capable of its full potential even on its stock cooler and a modest board than having to get the top of the line board and very expensive cooling solution to extract "everything out of it".

[Intelfreak]

7 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

It depends the way you see it, from a value perspective it's far more appealing having a CPU capable of its full potential even on its stock cooler and a modest board than having to get the top of the line board and very expensive cooling solution to extract "everything out of it".

As a overclock enthusiast i se differently on it, coming from a platform that cut take cpu's over 1 ghz above stock clock. Ryzen 3000 oc capability is very dissapointing to said it at least.

 

I am not planning on using stock cooler as they tend to suck and be noisy. I'm planing on to get a noctua nh-d15 for the cpu. Al ready have a nh-d14 on my current cpu and i have been fairly pleased with it.

[nick name]

Do you need RGB?  Because you will find better binned RAM by shopping at higher speeds with lower timings.  G.SKILL has a 4000CL17 kit that should be around where their 3600CL15 kits are binned.  Both are Samsung b-die. Or something like a 4400CL19 kit.  Since you're gonna be manually tuning you'll be fine, but many folks are reporting that their CPUs can handle the higher speed kit's XMP profiles now.  

[Tristerin]

Through my benches and rebenches Ryzen first gen (I can only truly speak on that) prefers Frequency heavily over Timings in comparison.  I have 2133mhz CL14, 3200 CL16, and 3600mhz CL18 dual channel 16gb kits (going to build an intel build soon to put that 2133mhz somewhere lol its useless for Ryzen in comparison to 3200+) that I work with.

[nick name]

22 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Through my benches and rebenches Ryzen first gen (I can only truly speak on that) prefers Frequency heavily over Timings in comparison.  I have 2133mhz CL14, 3200 CL16, and 3600mhz CL18 dual channel 16gb kits (going to build an intel build soon to put that 2133mhz somewhere lol its useless for Ryzen in comparison to 3200+) that I work with.

Yeah, my kit at 3200MHz 12-13-12-12 doesn't perform as well as the same kit at 3600MHz 14-15-14-14.  

[Intelfreak]

27 minutes ago, nick name said:

Do you need RGB?  Because you will find better binned RAM by shopping at higher speeds with lower timings.  G.SKILL has a 4000CL17 kit that should be around where their 3600CL15 kits are binned.  Both are Samsung b-die. Or something like a 4400CL19 kit.  Since you're gonna be manually tuning you'll be fine, but many folks are reporting that their CPUs can handle the higher speed kit's XMP profiles now.  

No i dont need rgb, in fact i would prefer npt to have rgb.

 

But higher clock memory that 3600 mhz is not worfh it. Remember ryzen 3000 infinity fabrik reduse clock speed on it to the half when running memory above 3733 mhz. By that you lose data transfer speed even trow you run faster memory clock. Thats why i settle with 3600 mhz specifik.

 

I cut get faster clock memory, but that will only be because to run it at 3600 mhz still but then push timings even lower.

[Intelfreak]

29 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Through my benches and rebenches Ryzen first gen (I can only truly speak on that) prefers Frequency heavily over Timings in comparison.  I have 2133mhz CL14, 3200 CL16, and 3600mhz CL18 dual channel 16gb kits (going to build an intel build soon to put that 2133mhz somewhere lol its useless for Ryzen in comparison to 3200+) that I work with.

Ryzen 3 gen work a bit different. It has support for higher clock memory and sweetspot its 3600 mhz with as low timings as possible.

[Tristerin]

1 minute ago, Intelfreak said:

Ryzen 3 gen work a bit different. It has support for higher clock memory and sweetspot its 3600 mhz with as low timings as possible.

They also say Ryzen Gen 1 sweet spot is 3200mhz but gets less performance at 3600mhz which absolutely isn't the case - I wonder who these "They" are.

[nick name]

13 minutes ago, Intelfreak said:

No i dont need rgb, in fact i would prefer npt to have rgb.

 

But higher clock memory that 3600 mhz is not worfh it. Remember ryzen 3000 infinity fabrik reduse clock speed on it to the half when running memory above 3733 mhz. By that you lose data transfer speed even trow you run faster memory clock. Thats why i settle with 3600 mhz specifik.

 

I cut get faster clock memory, but that will only be because to run it at 3600 mhz still but then push timings even lower.

I'm not saying to buy faster memory to run it at higher than 3600MHz.  I am saying buying faster memory allows you to find better RAM.  It opens up the possibilities.  

 

And you can lock the FCLK at 1800MHz and then run RAM at higher than 3600MHz if you so choose.  

[Vortex88]

On 7/14/2019 at 11:27 AM, Tristerin said:

They also say Ryzen Gen 1 sweet spot is 3200mhz but gets less performance at 3600mhz which absolutely isn't the case - I wonder who these "They" are.

I don't think you're understanding. Zen and Zen+ will always run faster with higher memory clocks. People say the sweet spot is 3200mhz because you still see an improvement over 3200mhz, but it's not to the same degree as performance increases up to 3200mhz. In other words, the additional performance you get for every mhz after 3200mhz is greatly diminished. You'll still see a slight improvement, but arguably not enough to justify the extra money you're spending on higher memory clocks. 

 

Zen2 works differently. There is a hard cut off point for Zen 2 chips. If you go beyond 3733mhz, you'll actually see worse performance overall with maybe possible exceptions once you get up to 5000mhz+, but that's a lot more money spent to match the performance of 3733mhz or get a very slight improvement over it. 

 

One thing I haven't seen yet is a 3600mhz vs 3733mhz comparison. Most just say to go with 3600mhz, probably because you can get lower timings than with 3733mhz which would give better overall performance due to faster clock cycle times and may even compensate for some of Zen2's higher memory latency when compared with the first two generations. The only real reason to buy memory faster than 3733mhz for Zen2 would be if you are going to down clock it to either 3600mhz or 3733mhz and lower the timings as much as possible. 

[Tristerin]

2 hours ago, Vortex88 said:

I don't think you're understanding. Zen and Zen+ will always run faster with higher memory clocks. People say the sweet spot is 3200mhz because you still see an improvement over 3200mhz, but it's not to the same degree as performance increases up to 3200mhz. In other words, the additional performance you get for every mhz after 3200mhz is greatly diminished. You'll still see a slight improvement, but arguably not enough to justify the extra money you're spending on higher memory clocks. 

 

Zen2 works differently. There is a hard cut off point for Zen 2 chips. If you go beyond 3733mhz, you'll actually see worse performance overall with maybe possible exceptions once you get up to 5000mhz+, but that's a lot more money spent to match the performance of 3733mhz or get a very slight improvement over it. 

 

One thing I haven't seen yet is a 3600mhz vs 3733mhz comparison. Most just say to go with 3600mhz, probably because you can get lower timings than with 3733mhz which would give better overall performance due to faster clock cycle times and may even compensate for some of Zen2's higher memory latency when compared with the first two generations. The only real reason to buy memory faster than 3733mhz for Zen2 would be if you are going to down clock it to either 3600mhz or 3733mhz and lower the timings as much as possible. 

1.) I am speaking on Zen, as noted above because that's where the bulk of my knowledge lays, based on first hand experience, not a TechTuber.

2.) Slight improvement my ass - I own the kits, huge improvement from 3200mhz to 3600mhz - my 3200mhz cost the same as my 3600mhz kit - Id argue its well worth the gain from 3200 to 3600mhz.  And timings mean squat compared to Frequency.  I mean I have 2 nearly identical Ryzen 7 1700 systems to prove all of this on, which I have to myself and others already.

3. 100% agree I do not know ANYTHING about Zen+ in comparison, actually know very little.  However, as with R7 1700's, I am going to say that as BIOS updates land and more updates land, just like when I first tested 2133mhz vs my brothers 3200mhz kit there was negligible gains.  Today is a completely different story from an optimization standpoint that keeps it stable and really tightening up frame times (coming from a gamers perspective) - so for me, I will continue to say, 3600mhz before 3200mhz timings be damned (until I can be shown a new way )

 

Ill leave the Zen2 talks to you all, again its why I noted up front this is about Zen.  Because my expertise lays 2 generations before

[Vortex88]

2 hours ago, Tristerin said:

1.) I am speaking on Zen, as noted above because that's where the bulk of my knowledge lays, based on first hand experience, not a TechTuber.

2.) Slight improvement my ass - I own the kits, huge improvement from 3200mhz to 3600mhz - my 3200mhz cost the same as my 3600mhz kit - Id argue its well worth the gain from 3200 to 3600mhz.  And timings mean squat compared to Frequency.  I mean I have 2 nearly identical Ryzen 7 1700 systems to prove all of this on, which I have to myself and others already.

3. 100% agree I do not know ANYTHING about Zen+ in comparison, actually know very little.  However, as with R7 1700's, I am going to say that as BIOS updates land and more updates land, just like when I first tested 2133mhz vs my brothers 3200mhz kit there was negligible gains.  Today is a completely different story from an optimization standpoint that keeps it stable and really tightening up frame times (coming from a gamers perspective) - so for me, I will continue to say, 3600mhz before 3200mhz timings be damned (until I can be shown a new way )

 

Ill leave the Zen2 talks to you all, again its why I noted up front this is about Zen.  Because my expertise lays 2 generations before

So what kind of framerate gains are you seeing going from 3200 to 3600?

[Tristerin]

10 minutes ago, Vortex88 said:

So what kind of framerate gains are you seeing going from 3200 to 3600?

Obviously title to title depending on the resources needed to peak, but my lows average 10% higher FPS (some games slight difference, some games MASSIVE difference, BF5 being the most massive difference in playability at maxed out settings from the pool of games I checked) with my average FPS spread being much tighter and my average being higher because of this if the CPU was the bottleneck.

 

@nick name has his own testing and kept a pretty robust spreadsheet as well but I think that's with a R7 2700?

 

It comes down to this for me - BF5 at max settings with dual channel @ 2133mhz CL14 was unplayable at 2k.  Literally 1 fps lows, with 30 FPS meh's, but mostly unplayable.  @ 3200mhz CL16 I would range from 45-80 FPS @ 2k max settings.  @ 3600mhz CL18 I never drop below 60 FPS (144hz monitor, has freesync but not turned on), averaging around 75-80 FPS 80% of the time.  It really lets my R7 1700 breathe and make frame time for the Fury

[nick name]

I don't think I could qualify my testing as robust and unfortunately I didn't test at 3200MHz, but if you wanna see my results from some tests I did on my 2700X a few posts up you may find it helpful.  

 

And there is truth in Matisse not being so reliant on RAM due to its much larger caches, but you could find a good solution a little above 3733MHz if you can lock FCLK and get lucky with UCLK.  And I have even seen some reporting 1:1:1 up to 3800MHz.  Not a large leap from 3600MHz, but it's only been a week.  

 

And @Tristerin certainly isn't your common forum member that simply parrots what he sees someone else say once.  You can rely on the information he presents being vetted more vigorously than the aforementioned common member.